Flaggers

SEEMEFIRST
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SEEMEFIRST 9/8/2009 2:31pm
9/8/2009 2:31pm
ogdeno wrote:
Possible solution. CCTV at all flagging positions. An remote control electrode attached to the sensitive area of all inexperienced flaggers. If caught napping...... zap!
Remove all chairs prior to the gate drop. If you can't stand up, or hold your water for 35 minutes, you are not qualified.
Tbteam
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Tbteam 9/8/2009 3:50pm
9/8/2009 3:50pm
Somebody gets landed on while that guy sleeps and the next thing you know it's the promoters fault. I'd have kicked this guy's ass out of the event before he could even remember where he was.
ogdeno
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ogdeno 9/8/2009 4:19pm
9/8/2009 4:19pm
Is the flagger in the picture maybe a lesser known and not so gifted other Alessi brother? He looks like it.
Bronson905 9/8/2009 4:42pm
9/8/2009 4:42pm
doublezero wrote:
Motocross that boring? WOW
Poker_Player wrote:
Some say the 450 class has been but that was during the 250's! Laughing
haha i couldn't imagine flagging and falling asleep during a race... especially how deep the 250 class was this year!

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Bronson905 9/8/2009 4:43pm
9/8/2009 4:43pm
BTW, kinda looks like Shia LaBouf
DC
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DC 9/8/2009 4:49pm
9/8/2009 4:49pm
I would have done just that Mark but I didn't see him or hear about it until later, and I do think Guy B let him have it after he spotted him and shot the photo.

The positive is this: we can use a photo like this to show our flaggers next year that we're watching and we need them to be more focused on the task at hand.

DC
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lumpy790
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lumpy790 9/8/2009 5:37pm
9/8/2009 5:37pm
with transponders being used you would think there could be a product that alerts others when the transponder looses motion.

GuyB
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GuyB 9/8/2009 5:47pm
9/8/2009 5:47pm
Yeah, I did make sure he was good and awake.

Probably the thing that made me maddest was that he was the first flagger heading into the roller section up where Camp Hepler usually is. In other words, a blind jump section. To me that's inexcusable.
shaner708
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shaner708 9/8/2009 9:21pm
9/8/2009 9:21pm
DC wrote:
Thanks everyone for the suggestions and the input, and yes, we have some work to do here, as Guy B's photo clearly shows. No matter how...
Thanks everyone for the suggestions and the input, and yes, we have some work to do here, as Guy B's photo clearly shows. No matter how hard you try -- training on Friday evening, PAMX referee Lamont cruising the infield on a quad to give directions and supplies, paying well ($80 and a hat and T-shirt and lunch to watch and participate) and having six or eight "no jumping" flagmen also on the infield -- there's always a chance of human error.... Or human napping, in this case.

I have flagged many, many times, and it's a very tedious job sometimes. We hoped to have a course marshal program in place for 2009, but that got a little sideways and we ended up letting each track provide most of the flaggers. In this case, it was a guy from our own regular staff at Steel City that fell asleep on the job. For that I am embarrassed and I apologize.

We are already working on 2010 and we are going to soon ramp up an effort to work with more safety experts and tracks promoters around the country, as well as some series sponsors, to come up with good programs and packages for caution flaggers who will get the job done and not let us and the riders down by nodding off like this unfortunate case.

And thanks to all of the flagmen who did their job on Saturday (including Shaner708) and helped us get to the finish line on this season.

DC
MX Sports
Sick maybe I can keep my job for next year lol
wardy
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wardy 9/8/2009 10:07pm
9/8/2009 10:07pm
We have radios on all flaggers all the time. no chance to fall asleep as they would be awaken by a loud voice. Sure there is chit chat on the radio all day, but it keeps them informed on what is going on throught out the race event.

we watch specific riders who we know to look like an accident waiting to happen, and other things pertaining to the race. not to mention if a rider goes down, it's announced and the head flagger goes straight there immeadiatly.

a flagging/light system is a great idea to help, but not replace a flagger.

yellow flags should be reienforced, no variation to a yellow. all this gobbly goop about waving, passing, jumping etc should not be messed with. It a yellow is displayed it should be waved. period. if it is then it should be listened to the same way at all tracks (amatuer).
Personally a trained flagging crew which travels to all the pro races seems like a good idea, but then I don't have to organize it of pay for it. so easy for me to say........
lostboy819 9/8/2009 10:21pm
9/8/2009 10:21pm
Flagging at a race is a looooooong day and maybe for the Nationals they could break it up into two shifts so you flag half the day and then you get to enjoy your loot (Pit pass,Hat,shirts etc etc ) and then enjoy some racing without the flagging. Maybe the current pay would be better for a half day than a full day and it would double the cost but maybe you could set up a tip jar for the flaggers and most racers would kick in some cash to help cover the cost.
GuyB
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GuyB 9/8/2009 11:13pm
9/8/2009 11:13pm
Here's hoping that I never have to nudge another flagger awake. But if I do, I'll do a little iPhone video.
avidchimp
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avidchimp 9/8/2009 11:22pm
9/8/2009 11:22pm
GuyB wrote:
Here's hoping that I never have to nudge another flagger awake. But if I do, I'll do a little iPhone video.
Here's hoping that I never have to nudge another flagger awake. But if I do, I'll do a little iPhone video.
Yay for 3gs!!!
HansiKursch 9/8/2009 11:59pm
9/8/2009 11:59pm
Passive flagmen is a problem, but overly aggressive riders are a big problem too, one that is getting visibly worse over the years. Pretty sure it used to be a rule that you couldn't double if a flag was out but if that's still a rule it's not enforced. When you come to a yellow flag there should be no passing and there should be no jumping at all to a blind landing area. The flagman should be out cutting off the track when necessary and the riders need to respect that flagman and go where he guides you. Lately I've seen no respect, no moving over, no slowing down, no nothing.

There needs to be race officials around the track observing riders and how they respond to the flagmen and there needs to be severe penalties for people not obeying the guidlines. It will only take a couple black flags to bring almost all the riders in line with what they should be doing.
shaner708
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shaner708 9/9/2009 1:44am
9/9/2009 1:44am
They have a different flag for that now, they don't give it to all the flaggers though. They are just located on blind jumps and drop offs etc. When the yellow is out the riders actually seem to speed up and push harder
wardy
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wardy 9/9/2009 4:30am
9/9/2009 4:30am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:04am
708, hence in lies the problem.

go back to having a yellow flag mean what it is supposed to. watering down the flag's value for the "sake of the race" is bullshit. if they don't obey the yellow flag like is described in the rule book then they get the penatly.

problem is some where the people doing the rules seem to think this is optional type situation and want to change it yearly.


http://home.ama-cycle.org/congress/public/complist.asp?pyr=2009


mr cernic and I will look to have a good debate over this come october.

in my opinion, if a track uses the yellow flag and does it correctly. uses radios for instant information. red cross flags are not needed.

Pit Row

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JOHN CHOATE
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JOHN CHOATE 9/9/2009 7:35am
9/9/2009 7:35am
I have always thought that local racers would be good candidates for flagging positions at Nationals. They have firsthand knowledge of what of what the racer is going through.
SEEMEFIRST
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SEEMEFIRST 9/9/2009 8:02am
9/9/2009 8:02am
JOHN CHOATE wrote:
I have always thought that local racers would be good candidates for flagging positions at Nationals. They have firsthand knowledge of what of what the racer...
I have always thought that local racers would be good candidates for flagging positions at Nationals. They have firsthand knowledge of what of what the racer is going through.
I used to offer to help at the Dallas SX every year. I'd get contact info, and speak with the person. Give them a quick resume over the phone, and the conversation usually ended with, "Thanks, we'll let you know".

Turns out they'd rather use brother-in-laws, and buddies than experienced help...Maybe 20 years flagging and communications isn't good enough. I don't try to help any more.


As for the "Long day" at a National, give me a break. Nationals don't have squat on a big amateur event. 2 days from sun-up until sun down. One moto after another.
SEEMEFIRST
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SEEMEFIRST 9/9/2009 9:06am
9/9/2009 9:06am
That's one of our local boys, Taylor Painter.
Hard to tell with stills, but it looks like this guy was doing his job.

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