Team USA what are there chances?

zooyork
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8/17/2009 2:40am
Because the USA doesn't show up with their ''A'' team which always includes two or three superman riders like Carmichael, Stewart or Villopoto, the outcome of this years MXdN isn't as sure as it was in previous years.

But with Dungey, Tedesco and Weimer you guys still have an awesome team of which most countries only can dream about. Only Belgium and France have many riders capable of entering the race and get a good result.

Please keep in mind many European countries are really really reaaally small compared to the USA, and they are happy they can field a team with one or two good riders.

I am just happy all the big racing countries are fielding a team again this year and I don't really care for the outcome. Just want to see great racing with all the best riders from both sides of the Atlantic.
sec114
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8/17/2009 5:03am
i say that if USA is going 2 send our 3'rd string out there then go all out and send an all new virgin to mxon team out there. hahn, warton and deitrick
JW381
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8/17/2009 6:26am
Did anyone else point out that there is a monster rider, a red bull rider, and a rockstar rider representing team USA?

This must be a promo for the new SUPER energy drink that's set to drop next fall. It's a combo of all 3, plus a little bit of rock cocaine.
ty159
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8/17/2009 6:35am
with this team, I thinks it's Australia's to lose. Chad and Dungey will be right there with Cairoli some where in the mix too. MX2 Weimer and Metcalf are basically the same speed and I think they are faster than most of the GP MX2 riders. Rattray was close to Weimer once Weimer was healthy, but Weimer had him covered and he's the defending MX2 GP champ. MX3, well Byrne and Tedesco are really close, Byrne did run him down and check out on him at Unadilla, so it's going to be close. I guess that's why they run the races...

The Shop

P
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8/17/2009 6:37am
I can't really say what their chances are because I don't know who is on the other teams, but I will say that it's not a bad team. If anything it is good to see some young guys getting a chance participate.

Good luck guys!


P
themrtoad
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8/17/2009 6:55am
ty159 wrote:
with this team, I thinks it's Australia's to lose. Chad and Dungey will be right there with Cairoli some where in the mix too. MX2 Weimer...
with this team, I thinks it's Australia's to lose. Chad and Dungey will be right there with Cairoli some where in the mix too. MX2 Weimer and Metcalf are basically the same speed and I think they are faster than most of the GP MX2 riders. Rattray was close to Weimer once Weimer was healthy, but Weimer had him covered and he's the defending MX2 GP champ. MX3, well Byrne and Tedesco are really close, Byrne did run him down and check out on him at Unadilla, so it's going to be close. I guess that's why they run the races...
I think Marwin Musquin and Ken Roczen will do good against Weimer in MX2. In MX1/Open the class itself will actually be lower than in a regular GPor AMA race. Although theres a healthy injection of talent from USA and Australia, we loose out on some of the best riders since you can only pick three riders from each country. I'm convinced USA have enough riders if the were allowed to qualify five teams for A-final. Belgium could easily produce three etc and probably france as well.

I'm from Sweden and we can hardly produce one team.....

Therefore the race actually turns into a euro vs usa, Cairoli vs Dungey etc. I believe there is a great depth i both AMA motocross and the GP's. I also belive the depth isn't there in MXON with strange countries and riders outside the top 10. It's kind of weird watching chinese riders that can't ride at all compete at the same time as the best in the world.

I have no point with this really...
Flatlander
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8/17/2009 7:40am
In the past people have always said (some Euros included) that team USA could win with there "B" or even there "C" team. So this time we will find out!
8/17/2009 7:49am
If Dungey would race mx2 i would say it was a done deal, but Weimer?
Think he will be close with musquin and roczen.

Also a lot of the mx2 results come from the starts, they will be going up against 450s, although RV proved that isn't always an issue.

Enginewise, Roczen, musquin and Weimer all have good bikes.
8/17/2009 8:48am
i hate to break it to you guys but cairoli is pretty damn fast on a supercross track. he has a few european supercross titles to his name and he's *fact* beat weimer on a supercross track before (genova in either 2008 or 2007). the italians will be on the podium. probably the top step. cairoli has all 3 of our riders covered. philleaparts has at least tedesco covered. their only weak link is guarneri but when he rides to his potential hes a podium finisher in mx2. italy wins if guarneri shows up with his A game IMO.
GuyB
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8/17/2009 9:10am
Flatlander wrote:
In the past people have always said (some Euros included) that team USA could win with there "B" or even there "C" team. So this time...
In the past people have always said (some Euros included) that team USA could win with there "B" or even there "C" team. So this time we will find out!
So how would you rate this year's Team USA on the alphabet scale? Just wondering.
Ozzy
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8/17/2009 9:20am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:35am
I'm not going to rate anybody.
Seems silly to me, & why
be-little the boyz while they're
packing their bags!
Makes no sense to me.
For those who know, & those who follow
it all, it's known that our "Aces in the hole" are
out, injured! Bummer as it is, we, the USA still have
the depth to get-r-done!
As in anything else when it all matters, people rise to the
occasion.
Plus the teams support is second to none!
For me, I believe they will.......!
Woohoo "USA 2 Win"......Woohoo
Dave O.Wink
Kinetic1
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8/17/2009 9:38am
I think we will win. Dungey will do very well no matter what bike he rides. I think the 450 is actually a better bike for him and IT and Weimer will step right up. They both have the speed to win. Either way it hould make for good racing and hopefully EVERYONE stays upright in all the races. I can't wait. Does anyone know if there is someplace we can watch the race in America. Speed, ESPN, Alli?
joe101uk
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8/17/2009 9:39am
Italy to win. Cairoli and Philippaerts can take on Dungey and Tedesco...it might even come down to these key battles but i definitely see riders like nagl, desalle, coppins, de dycker etc, all capable of running at the front and taking vital positions from the Americans.
FreshTopEnd
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8/17/2009 9:45am
They've got a shot, as do a number of others, some having better shots on paper. Starts will be critical, as well as having the crap-shoot factor not roll against you.

I'm glad they're going even if it's not Bailey, Johnson and O'Mara.
Flatlander
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8/17/2009 9:50am
Flatlander wrote:
In the past people have always said (some Euros included) that team USA could win with there "B" or even there "C" team. So this time...
In the past people have always said (some Euros included) that team USA could win with there "B" or even there "C" team. So this time we will find out!
GuyB wrote:
So how would you rate this year's Team USA on the alphabet scale? Just wondering.
About a C+ but any of these teams could do the Job!

"A" - Stewart, Villopoto, Alessi
"B" - Grant, Dungey, Canard
"C" - Tedesco, Windham, Lawrence
"D" - Short, Weimer, Millsaps
"E" - Barcia, Hahn, Stroupe
"F" - Ferry, Tickle, Wharton
"G" - BobbyM, GuyB, AAA
Titan
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8/17/2009 9:58am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:35am
Who here thinks AC will try and take out Dungey off the start, like he tried to take out RV at Budds???

(Does anyone have those pictues?)
GuyB
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8/17/2009 10:07am
They've got a shot, as do a number of others, some having better shots on paper. Starts will be critical, as well as having the crap-shoot...
They've got a shot, as do a number of others, some having better shots on paper. Starts will be critical, as well as having the crap-shoot factor not roll against you.

I'm glad they're going even if it's not Bailey, Johnson and O'Mara.
I agree with that 100%. It's time to get behind the team, not whine and snivel. Smile
mccread
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8/17/2009 10:16am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2009 10:26am
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten individually Europe.... see? However some deluded Americans will then somehow ,like they did in 2006, interperut the face that as the USA riders are superior to the European riders even tho the European riders beat them individually.... go figure... Looking at countries the US have a good a chance as any of the big 6 :- Italy ( probably favorites.. 1st 3rd MX1and 4th MX2 in the GPs) France ( how do Paulin and Aubin ride the 450s? - thatcould win it or blow it) Belgium ( always there and a good team Roelants wil be good maybe a podium) USA (Dungey is the top rider if he wins MX1 USA + top3 in MX2 and MX3 they win) Germany (Nagl can win so could Roczen or top3 so if Schiffer can get a top 5..) Australia (2nd favourites maybe? tho really the US team is as strong)
Honda_Fan
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8/17/2009 10:25am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2009 10:26am
mccread wrote:
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten...
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten individually Europe.... see? However some deluded Americans will then somehow ,like they did in 2006, interperut the face that as the USA riders are superior to the European riders even tho the European riders beat them individually.... go figure... Looking at countries the US have a good a chance as any of the big 6 :- Italy ( probably favorites.. 1st 3rd MX1and 4th MX2 in the GPs) France ( how do Paulin and Aubin ride the 450s? - thatcould win it or blow it) Belgium ( always there and a good team Roelants wil be good maybe a podium) USA (Dungey is the top rider if he wins MX1 USA + top3 in MX2 and MX3 they win) Germany (Nagl can win so could Roczen or top3 so if Schiffer can get a top 5..) Australia (2nd favourites maybe? tho really the US team is as strong)
When the USA wins again will you casually disappear for a few months like you always do?
Titan
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8/17/2009 10:28am
mccread wrote:
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten...
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten individually Europe.... see? However some deluded Americans will then somehow ,like they did in 2006, interperut the face that as the USA riders are superior to the European riders even tho the European riders beat them individually.... go figure... Looking at countries the US have a good a chance as any of the big 6 :- Italy ( probably favorites.. 1st 3rd MX1and 4th MX2 in the GPs) France ( how do Paulin and Aubin ride the 450s? - thatcould win it or blow it) Belgium ( always there and a good team Roelants wil be good maybe a podium) USA (Dungey is the top rider if he wins MX1 USA + top3 in MX2 and MX3 they win) Germany (Nagl can win so could Roczen or top3 so if Schiffer can get a top 5..) Australia (2nd favourites maybe? tho really the US team is as strong)
I'm almost positive that the current AMA riders (any rider currently racing in the US regardless of country) will do better than the current GP riders (any rider currently racing the GP's regardless of country)...

And it shouldn't come as a surprise that America's C team riders will get beat individually by the other 38 riders on the track from other countries.

I don't expect American riders to win any class. I just don't. With the exception of Dungey (who is riding a bike he will have very little time on) our team are 5-8 place riders here.

But I think this team would be extatic to be on the podium...and even then, it will take some luck.

I'm behind them, but realistically they'll be lucky for a top 3.

It's Austrialias to lose. (All AMA riders, by the way), and I hope America can get a top three.

Imagine, for a moment, if we'd have been able to send JS, RV, and RD...(or even RV, MA, RD)...there would have been a VERY good possibility that the top two teams (USA and Austrialia) would be made up entirely of AMA riders...And that would have been awesome...throw Britain (or S. Africa) in there for third and you'd have 7 of the 9 riders on the top three teams would be AMA riders.

But for now, we'll just have to hope Australia wins it for the AMA, and that America can get third with their C team...and we'll still have 6 of 9 riders of the top three teams riding AMA.

I can't wait....
Titan
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8/17/2009 10:29am
mccread wrote:
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten...
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten individually Europe.... see? However some deluded Americans will then somehow ,like they did in 2006, interperut the face that as the USA riders are superior to the European riders even tho the European riders beat them individually.... go figure... Looking at countries the US have a good a chance as any of the big 6 :- Italy ( probably favorites.. 1st 3rd MX1and 4th MX2 in the GPs) France ( how do Paulin and Aubin ride the 450s? - thatcould win it or blow it) Belgium ( always there and a good team Roelants wil be good maybe a podium) USA (Dungey is the top rider if he wins MX1 USA + top3 in MX2 and MX3 they win) Germany (Nagl can win so could Roczen or top3 so if Schiffer can get a top 5..) Australia (2nd favourites maybe? tho really the US team is as strong)
Oh, and I thought Europe wasn't a country??? And since this is a race of one country vs the other countries...it makes no sense to talk about Continents...
joe101uk
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8/17/2009 11:18am
Enough of the C team crap.....at the end of the day Roger is sending the best riders you currently have, so therefore its your A team.

Stop mentioning Stewarts name aswell because the guy even said himself that he is currently retired from motocross.
Titan
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8/17/2009 11:56am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:36am
joe101uk wrote:
Enough of the C team crap.....at the end of the day Roger is sending the best riders you currently have, so therefore its your A team...
Enough of the C team crap.....at the end of the day Roger is sending the best riders you currently have, so therefore its your A team.

Stop mentioning Stewarts name aswell because the guy even said himself that he is currently retired from motocross.
The best we have available is third string riders...we can't stop talking about it...it's fact.

And as long as Stewart is activily racing AMA mx and/or sx...he's a candidate for the MXdN, and thus on the table when bench racing about would be mxdn teams.

You're just pissed our C team, has an outside shot at winning, and is a very serious podium contender...America just has the best riders in the world Period...JS, RV, MA, RD...four of the five fastest men on the planet (the other rider would be Reed also an AMA rider though not "American")...then you've got AC, who would be a close 6th fastest man in the world, and then it's anyones call after that...to close for me to call anyway.
8/17/2009 12:15pm
freecaster.tv

every moto live, uninterrupted with starting gate interviews before the motos and free of charge. goes for the GP's as well.
Rudicross
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8/17/2009 12:18pm
joe101uk wrote:
Enough of the C team crap.....at the end of the day Roger is sending the best riders you currently have, so therefore its your A team...
Enough of the C team crap.....at the end of the day Roger is sending the best riders you currently have, so therefore its your A team.

Stop mentioning Stewarts name aswell because the guy even said himself that he is currently retired from motocross.
Indeed Joe ... suddenly it's a C team Wink
Dungey and Weimer are the no 1 and 2 ranked USA riders in the provisional point standings, IT the 2nd ranked USA rider in the 450cc class.
Alessi, Villo and Dungey would be your A team, now you'll have a strong B team imo.
Titan
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8/17/2009 12:26pm
joe101uk wrote:
Enough of the C team crap.....at the end of the day Roger is sending the best riders you currently have, so therefore its your A team...
Enough of the C team crap.....at the end of the day Roger is sending the best riders you currently have, so therefore its your A team.

Stop mentioning Stewarts name aswell because the guy even said himself that he is currently retired from motocross.
Rudicross wrote:
Indeed Joe ... suddenly it's a C team ;) Dungey and Weimer are the no 1 and 2 ranked USA riders in the provisional point standings...
Indeed Joe ... suddenly it's a C team Wink
Dungey and Weimer are the no 1 and 2 ranked USA riders in the provisional point standings, IT the 2nd ranked USA rider in the 450cc class.
Alessi, Villo and Dungey would be your A team, now you'll have a strong B team imo.
Actually...JS, RV, and RD would be A team...RV, MA, RD, would be B Team...this is C team at best...

We've got our fourth best 450 rider in IT: (JS, RV, MA are all better)
We've got our third best 250 Rider JW: (RD, TC are better)
And yeah, we have our best 250 rider out there...but he's riding a 450.

This is a C team at best. Points standings be damned...Injuries make this a C team.
8/17/2009 12:36pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2009 12:44pm
mccread wrote:
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten...
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten individually Europe.... see? However some deluded Americans will then somehow ,like they did in 2006, interperut the face that as the USA riders are superior to the European riders even tho the European riders beat them individually.... go figure... Looking at countries the US have a good a chance as any of the big 6 :- Italy ( probably favorites.. 1st 3rd MX1and 4th MX2 in the GPs) France ( how do Paulin and Aubin ride the 450s? - thatcould win it or blow it) Belgium ( always there and a good team Roelants wil be good maybe a podium) USA (Dungey is the top rider if he wins MX1 USA + top3 in MX2 and MX3 they win) Germany (Nagl can win so could Roczen or top3 so if Schiffer can get a top 5..) Australia (2nd favourites maybe? tho really the US team is as strong)
Titan wrote:
I'm almost positive that the current AMA riders (any rider currently racing in the US regardless of country) will do better than the current GP riders...
I'm almost positive that the current AMA riders (any rider currently racing in the US regardless of country) will do better than the current GP riders (any rider currently racing the GP's regardless of country)...

And it shouldn't come as a surprise that America's C team riders will get beat individually by the other 38 riders on the track from other countries.

I don't expect American riders to win any class. I just don't. With the exception of Dungey (who is riding a bike he will have very little time on) our team are 5-8 place riders here.

But I think this team would be extatic to be on the podium...and even then, it will take some luck.

I'm behind them, but realistically they'll be lucky for a top 3.

It's Austrialias to lose. (All AMA riders, by the way), and I hope America can get a top three.

Imagine, for a moment, if we'd have been able to send JS, RV, and RD...(or even RV, MA, RD)...there would have been a VERY good possibility that the top two teams (USA and Austrialia) would be made up entirely of AMA riders...And that would have been awesome...throw Britain (or S. Africa) in there for third and you'd have 7 of the 9 riders on the top three teams would be AMA riders.

But for now, we'll just have to hope Australia wins it for the AMA, and that America can get third with their C team...and we'll still have 6 of 9 riders of the top three teams riding AMA.

I can't wait....
thats the most convoluted statement ive ever heard. you know america has a smaller chance at winning so you turn it ass backwards to have the "AMA" win. just because you race in the AMA doesnt mean youre faster than the people who race under the FIM. pourcel brothers, langston, townley, cairoli, searle, rattray, phillepearts, coppins, nagl, roczen, barragan, musquin, the leok brothers, de dycker, ramon, desalle, swanepoel, mackenzie, simpson, goncalves and a slew of others are all either ex or current FIM riders and a majority of those riders and their countries stand a good chance at landing their team on the podium. come october 4th i think a lot of people in the US are going to be surprised by our foreign friends.
Rudicross
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8/17/2009 12:56pm
@ Titan

Injuries make this a C team.
Not only injuries (JS not racing).
But why not Dungey as a 250 rider (best choice) and Short/Tedesco in the 450cc/open class ?
That would be a good B team.
On the other hand I think Dungey will be faster on that 450cc than I.T. and A.S.
mumhra
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8/17/2009 1:02pm
Titan wrote:
The best we have available is third string riders...we can't stop talking about it...it's fact. And as long as Stewart is activily racing AMA mx and/or...
The best we have available is third string riders...we can't stop talking about it...it's fact.

And as long as Stewart is activily racing AMA mx and/or sx...he's a candidate for the MXdN, and thus on the table when bench racing about would be mxdn teams.

You're just pissed our C team, has an outside shot at winning, and is a very serious podium contender...America just has the best riders in the world Period...JS, RV, MA, RD...four of the five fastest men on the planet (the other rider would be Reed also an AMA rider though not "American")...then you've got AC, who would be a close 6th fastest man in the world, and then it's anyones call after that...to close for me to call anyway.
America has the best riders in the world ? Then explain to me why a french guy is leading the 250 championship and an australian guy is leading the 450 ? Makes no sense to me.

The best you have available are 3rd string riders ? Really ? Who else have you got besides Villopoto and Alessi ? James Stewart and Ricky Carmichael ? I thougth those 2 were retired. Well.. 2 can play that game... Hey... Belgium is there with a C team as well. Stefan Everts is not riding, neither is Eric Geboers and Andre Malherbe. And dang... one of our best ever (Roger de Coster) does not want to ride for us either. Looks like Belgium is there with a Z team instead of a C team.

Face it guys.. You have the best possible lineup available at the startgate. You keep on talking about injured and retired riders. Every country has that problem. Every country has injured and retired riders.

Fact is that with a country as massive as the USA that even with 2 of your best riders injured you guys normally still should easily win the nations. Why should i be pissed because you guys still have a chance to podium it ? Why should i be pissed because you guys still have a chance of winning it ? I'm actually stunned that it only took the injury of 2 of your top riders and you guys are allready looking for excuses why you are not going to win the mx of nations. Cheer for your country, like everyone else does and stop whining. You still have a big chance of winning. That's a lot more then most of us can say.
Titan
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8/17/2009 1:09pm
mccread wrote:
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten...
The Euros will beat the Americans individually probably but that won't matter becasue it is a nations race so America could still win despite being beaten individually Europe.... see? However some deluded Americans will then somehow ,like they did in 2006, interperut the face that as the USA riders are superior to the European riders even tho the European riders beat them individually.... go figure... Looking at countries the US have a good a chance as any of the big 6 :- Italy ( probably favorites.. 1st 3rd MX1and 4th MX2 in the GPs) France ( how do Paulin and Aubin ride the 450s? - thatcould win it or blow it) Belgium ( always there and a good team Roelants wil be good maybe a podium) USA (Dungey is the top rider if he wins MX1 USA + top3 in MX2 and MX3 they win) Germany (Nagl can win so could Roczen or top3 so if Schiffer can get a top 5..) Australia (2nd favourites maybe? tho really the US team is as strong)
Titan wrote:
I'm almost positive that the current AMA riders (any rider currently racing in the US regardless of country) will do better than the current GP riders...
I'm almost positive that the current AMA riders (any rider currently racing in the US regardless of country) will do better than the current GP riders (any rider currently racing the GP's regardless of country)...

And it shouldn't come as a surprise that America's C team riders will get beat individually by the other 38 riders on the track from other countries.

I don't expect American riders to win any class. I just don't. With the exception of Dungey (who is riding a bike he will have very little time on) our team are 5-8 place riders here.

But I think this team would be extatic to be on the podium...and even then, it will take some luck.

I'm behind them, but realistically they'll be lucky for a top 3.

It's Austrialias to lose. (All AMA riders, by the way), and I hope America can get a top three.

Imagine, for a moment, if we'd have been able to send JS, RV, and RD...(or even RV, MA, RD)...there would have been a VERY good possibility that the top two teams (USA and Austrialia) would be made up entirely of AMA riders...And that would have been awesome...throw Britain (or S. Africa) in there for third and you'd have 7 of the 9 riders on the top three teams would be AMA riders.

But for now, we'll just have to hope Australia wins it for the AMA, and that America can get third with their C team...and we'll still have 6 of 9 riders of the top three teams riding AMA.

I can't wait....
thats the most convoluted statement ive ever heard. you know america has a smaller chance at winning so you turn it ass backwards to have the...
thats the most convoluted statement ive ever heard. you know america has a smaller chance at winning so you turn it ass backwards to have the "AMA" win. just because you race in the AMA doesnt mean youre faster than the people who race under the FIM. pourcel brothers, langston, townley, cairoli, searle, rattray, phillepearts, coppins, nagl, roczen, barragan, musquin, the leok brothers, de dycker, ramon, desalle, swanepoel, mackenzie, simpson, goncalves and a slew of others are all either ex or current FIM riders and a majority of those riders and their countries stand a good chance at landing their team on the podium. come october 4th i think a lot of people in the US are going to be surprised by our foreign friends.
Why is it convoluted?

The debate is always 'which SERIES is faster", "which SERIES is deeper" etc...(Even though McCread always tries to make it into the ROTW vs America...the USA's mxdn win record eliminates any question as to which COUNTRY has the best riders.)

The mxdn is the only time in the year where you get to pit a relatively large number of AMA riders against a large number of GP riders. That makes it the perfect opportunity to see how the current AMA riders stack up against the current GP riders.

Yes, its a country vs country race...but while that is being settled on the track, there are other bench racing scenarios that can be looked at as well.

And you're right, just because I race in the AMA (though I personally don't race in the AMA) doesn't make it faster than the FIM...it's faster than the FIM because it has faster riders. Me being a fan of the AMA isn't a pre-requisite for that series to be faster than the FIM...it's going to be, whether I'm a fan or not.

So again, while determining which country is best (I've already admitted that the US team, this year ,isn't a probably winner in my opinion) I'm going to be looking at how the current AMA riders stack up against the current GP riders...best way to judge depth.

But just because you mentioned them: Langston, Townley, Searle, Rattray...as well as Reed, Byrne, and Reardon are all AMA riders that will do a FINE job of representing the AMA at the event. A fine Job. (though I didn't know Langston was racing??? If he is, that's awesome!!).

Imagine if Austrailia, South Africa, and America are on the podium...8 of the 9 riders on the top three teams at the MXdN would be AMA riders....against the best the GP's have to offer...that would be awesome.

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