Stop comparing riders to James

mwssquad827
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mwssquad827 9/29/2022 12:28pm
9/29/2022 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2022 12:29pm
mwssquad827 wrote:
You think deegan might be the next 259 tho?
DerickYZ wrote:
Get off the acid lol
Was going for a reaction.. cuz vital thinks deegan is the best thing since sliced bread
3D
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3D 9/29/2022 12:46pm
9/29/2022 12:46pm
One thing is for sure. I'm glad I got to watch his entire career. I loved to hate the guy at the time, but man did he do some crazy shit. I feel bad for the people that never seen him in person on a 125. No he wasn't as good of a racer as RC, but he left everyone with their jaw open an awful lot and left them with memories they'll never forget.
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wrc777
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wrc777 9/29/2022 12:54pm
9/29/2022 12:54pm
mwssquad827 wrote:
You think deegan might be the next 259 tho?
DerickYZ wrote:
Get off the acid lol
mwssquad827 wrote:
Was going for a reaction.. cuz vital thinks deegan is the best thing since sliced bread
I assumed that was sarcasm.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 9/29/2022 1:04pm
9/29/2022 1:04pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
You just saying that doesn’t make it a fact.

Please link RC saying he feared James outdoors. You won’t be able to, because it doesn’t exist.
wrc777 wrote:
You have seen the RC interview with Ping where he was afraid every week someone would figure out how to beat him especially Reed and James?
sandtrack315 wrote:
[i]It’s good that you and James had that respect because I bet if you look back at it now and it had gotten nasty or dirty...
It’s good that you and James had that respect because I bet if you look back at it now and it had gotten nasty or dirty, it probably wouldn’t be a good look to see it that wat now. Better to see it as just hard racing.

Totally. That’s exactly what it was. My last supercross race at Orlando, same kind of thing. RedBud was so similar to Orlando. Just back and forth the whole time, good, clean racing. The thing about all three of us, got to include Chad on this, we were all willing to risk it all to win. Winning was everything. We didn’t look at each other. We didn’t talk to each other, for the most part. It was a race to get to the airport to get on the plane to get home first, and then how the heck am I going to beat this guy next weekend? That’s how it was. The rivalry was so intense. You could cut the air with a knife.

https://racerxonline.com/2020/04/28/between-the-motos-ricky-carmichael-…

Maybe "feared" is a strong word, but RC was never confident he could beat James.
Saying he didn’t want to get stuck in stew’s pace really screams “fearful”
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EricZ38
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EricZ38 9/29/2022 2:46pm
9/29/2022 2:46pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2022 2:50pm
Maybe it’s just as simple as JS7 was more willing to cross that line of the limits of physics and risk serious injury. Eli has repeatedly said that there are limits he won’t try to go beyond.

I don’t know that it means that are “better”. JS7 was amazingly fast but he also frequently crashed hard. I think all of the greats toe that line within the limits of their technological era.

It seems that’s what worried RC was that JS didn’t seem to give a shit if he ended up paralyzed or dead. Does that mean he was better? Not to me.
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mshea397
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mshea397 9/29/2022 5:20pm
9/29/2022 5:20pm
JS7 changed the sport. Very few have. Hannah, Johnson, Jeremy, RC.
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Harry's Severed Write Arm 9/29/2022 5:24pm
9/29/2022 5:24pm
dsc131 wrote:
Didn't YOU just compare RC to James?

1. Read the title of your post
2. Look in the mirror.
sandtrack315 wrote:
No, totally different riding styles, totally different approach to winning, totally different personalities...This is the same point. Just because two people are fast, does not mean...
No, totally different riding styles, totally different approach to winning, totally different personalities...This is the same point. Just because two people are fast, does not mean they are the same.
sandtrack315 - I love you JS7! Please love me back!
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Forty
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Forty 9/29/2022 5:37pm
9/29/2022 5:37pm
Comparing riders is part of it. It just is.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 9/29/2022 5:55pm
9/29/2022 5:55pm
EricZ38 wrote:
Maybe it’s just as simple as JS7 was more willing to cross that line of the limits of physics and risk serious injury. Eli has repeatedly...
Maybe it’s just as simple as JS7 was more willing to cross that line of the limits of physics and risk serious injury. Eli has repeatedly said that there are limits he won’t try to go beyond.

I don’t know that it means that are “better”. JS7 was amazingly fast but he also frequently crashed hard. I think all of the greats toe that line within the limits of their technological era.

It seems that’s what worried RC was that JS didn’t seem to give a shit if he ended up paralyzed or dead. Does that mean he was better? Not to me.
This dude gets it
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tomlopez
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tomlopez 9/29/2022 5:55pm
9/29/2022 5:55pm
If you think Ricky didn't have James' speed outdoors, go on Youtube and rewatch some races. In almost every race, Ricky was either as fast or faster than James. SX was a different story though.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 9/29/2022 5:57pm
9/29/2022 5:57pm
Forty wrote:
Comparing riders is part of it. It just is.
I agree, but general comparisons are lazy and, in the case of James, not accurate. Say that someone has X quality from Y rider. That’s reasonable and fun to talk about.
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toroP
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toroP 9/29/2022 5:57pm
9/29/2022 5:57pm
Forty wrote:
Comparing riders is part of it. It just is.
Well, yes, as much as racing is a comparison. And we have results. Opinion really doesn’t matter.
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ShipLap 9/29/2022 5:57pm
9/29/2022 5:57pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2022 6:07pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Can you provide any evidence that RC was afraid of James’ speed outdoors? Pretty sure RC knew he had bubs covered outside right up till the...
Can you provide any evidence that RC was afraid of James’ speed outdoors? Pretty sure RC knew he had bubs covered outside right up till the end
Comment by a journalist in 2006:

"I think Bubba was shocked at Mount Morris last year. In the second moto, he got the holeshot and took off setting lap times 6 seconds faster than any laid down during practice. To his horror RC was right on his tail, gaining on him. By then it was too late to train.”
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Gimmick
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Gimmick 9/29/2022 5:58pm
9/29/2022 5:58pm
Most riders nowadays are nowhere near as dangerous and reckless as Bubba was. He’s lucky he got caught using meth before he wrecked himself to a point beyond recovery
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ShipLap
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ShipLap 9/29/2022 6:01pm
9/29/2022 6:01pm
lostboy819 wrote:
I don't think Danger boy is even the next Kyle Lewis.
Dangerboy could be the next Paul Carpenter !!

yuuuuuuge
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ShipLap
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ShipLap 9/29/2022 6:03pm
9/29/2022 6:03pm
wrc777 wrote:
You have seen the RC interview with Ping where he was afraid every week someone would figure out how to beat him especially Reed and James?
sandtrack315 wrote:
[i]It’s good that you and James had that respect because I bet if you look back at it now and it had gotten nasty or dirty...
It’s good that you and James had that respect because I bet if you look back at it now and it had gotten nasty or dirty, it probably wouldn’t be a good look to see it that wat now. Better to see it as just hard racing.

Totally. That’s exactly what it was. My last supercross race at Orlando, same kind of thing. RedBud was so similar to Orlando. Just back and forth the whole time, good, clean racing. The thing about all three of us, got to include Chad on this, we were all willing to risk it all to win. Winning was everything. We didn’t look at each other. We didn’t talk to each other, for the most part. It was a race to get to the airport to get on the plane to get home first, and then how the heck am I going to beat this guy next weekend? That’s how it was. The rivalry was so intense. You could cut the air with a knife.

https://racerxonline.com/2020/04/28/between-the-motos-ricky-carmichael-…

Maybe "feared" is a strong word, but RC was never confident he could beat James.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Saying he didn’t want to get stuck in stew’s pace really screams “fearful” [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/09/29/571264/s1200_8A85CFCD_7EF9_4412_86CB_DDD300D88AFD.jpg[/img]
Saying he didn’t want to get stuck in stew’s pace really screams “fearful”
Glen Helen 2006?
Gimmick
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Gimmick 9/29/2022 6:04pm
9/29/2022 6:04pm
lostboy819 wrote:
I don't think Danger boy is even the next Kyle Lewis.
ShipLap wrote:
Dangerboy could be the next Paul Carpenter !!

yuuuuuuge
He probably won’t make it very far as a pro, but he’s really setting himself up to sell a crap ton of MM T shirts. If only they can figure out a way to edit out those nasty skulls so they can sell at a government skool
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ShipLap
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ShipLap 9/29/2022 6:06pm
9/29/2022 6:06pm
tomlopez wrote:
If you think Ricky didn't have James' speed outdoors, go on Youtube and rewatch some races. In almost every race, Ricky was either as fast or...
If you think Ricky didn't have James' speed outdoors, go on Youtube and rewatch some races. In almost every race, Ricky was either as fast or faster than James. SX was a different story though.
RC & Stewart raced each other 23-times in Motocross
Carmichael won 20 out of 23

Carmichael's win percentage over Bubba = 86.9%
RC's total win % in the 450 class was 85.61%.
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tomlopez
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tomlopez 9/29/2022 6:12pm
9/29/2022 6:12pm
tomlopez wrote:
If you think Ricky didn't have James' speed outdoors, go on Youtube and rewatch some races. In almost every race, Ricky was either as fast or...
If you think Ricky didn't have James' speed outdoors, go on Youtube and rewatch some races. In almost every race, Ricky was either as fast or faster than James. SX was a different story though.
ShipLap wrote:
RC & Stewart raced each other 23-times in Motocross Carmichael won 20 out of 23 Carmichael's win percentage over Bubba = 86.9% RC's total win %...
RC & Stewart raced each other 23-times in Motocross
Carmichael won 20 out of 23

Carmichael's win percentage over Bubba = 86.9%
RC's total win % in the 450 class was 85.61%.
Exactly
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TalinH112
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TalinH112 9/29/2022 6:21pm
9/29/2022 6:21pm
2015 Eli is the fastest a rider has ever ridden a motorcycle, James and RC included. I do not say that lightly either cause Villopoto, RC and Stew absolutely elevated the entire sport with their speed and Eli would have waxed them all that year. Unfortunately he crashed and couldn’t continue I am not arguing that but I do believe HAD he been able to continue it would have been a perfect season.
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dsc131
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dsc131 9/29/2022 6:26pm
9/29/2022 6:26pm
EricZ38 wrote:
Maybe it’s just as simple as JS7 was more willing to cross that line of the limits of physics and risk serious injury. Eli has repeatedly...
Maybe it’s just as simple as JS7 was more willing to cross that line of the limits of physics and risk serious injury. Eli has repeatedly said that there are limits he won’t try to go beyond.

I don’t know that it means that are “better”. JS7 was amazingly fast but he also frequently crashed hard. I think all of the greats toe that line within the limits of their technological era.

It seems that’s what worried RC was that JS didn’t seem to give a shit if he ended up paralyzed or dead. Does that mean he was better? Not to me.
sandtrack315 wrote:
This dude gets it
What nobody gets is you first saying we shouldn't compare anyone to James, but then you did just that in your post by comparing RC to James.
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ShipLap
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ShipLap 9/29/2022 6:26pm
9/29/2022 6:26pm
TalinH112 wrote:
2015 Eli is the fastest a rider has ever ridden a motorcycle, James and RC included. I do not say that lightly either cause Villopoto, RC...
2015 Eli is the fastest a rider has ever ridden a motorcycle, James and RC included. I do not say that lightly either cause Villopoto, RC and Stew absolutely elevated the entire sport with their speed and Eli would have waxed them all that year. Unfortunately he crashed and couldn’t continue I am not arguing that but I do believe HAD he been able to continue it would have been a perfect season.
Yes, beating the defending champion by 91 seconds in the second moto at Hangtown was the equivalent of lightning striking the entire motocross industry. Even the announcers did not know what to say . . .
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 9/29/2022 6:35pm
9/29/2022 6:35pm
mwssquad827 wrote:
You think deegan might be the next 259 tho?
lostboy819 wrote:
I don't think Danger boy is even the next Kyle Lewis.
You’re right, Deegan will get a factory ride
sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 9/29/2022 6:42pm
9/29/2022 6:42pm
dsc131 wrote:
What nobody gets is you first saying we shouldn't compare anyone to James, but then you did just that in your post by comparing RC to...
What nobody gets is you first saying we shouldn't compare anyone to James, but then you did just that in your post by comparing RC to James.
I said RC feared him. What I meant was that RC knew if he pushed James, James would just go faster, and RC was afraid of that. That’s about RC’s state of mind. No comparison.

If you want to compare speed, style, individual characteristics, go for it. When people vaguely go “he reminds me of James”, it means they don’t correctly remember James.

Listen to Chad Reed on the DMXS podcast, basically says recent comparisons to James don’t make any sense.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 9/29/2022 6:48pm
9/29/2022 6:48pm
dsc131 wrote:
What nobody gets is you first saying we shouldn't compare anyone to James, but then you did just that in your post by comparing RC to...
What nobody gets is you first saying we shouldn't compare anyone to James, but then you did just that in your post by comparing RC to James.
sandtrack315 wrote:
I said RC feared him. What I meant was that RC knew if he pushed James, James would just go faster, and RC was afraid of...
I said RC feared him. What I meant was that RC knew if he pushed James, James would just go faster, and RC was afraid of that. That’s about RC’s state of mind. No comparison.

If you want to compare speed, style, individual characteristics, go for it. When people vaguely go “he reminds me of James”, it means they don’t correctly remember James.

Listen to Chad Reed on the DMXS podcast, basically says recent comparisons to James don’t make any sense.
That literally doesn’t make sense. If RC was afraid to push James in outdoors, how the hell did he win 20 of 23 nationals against him?
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 9/29/2022 6:51pm
9/29/2022 6:51pm
dsc131 wrote:
What nobody gets is you first saying we shouldn't compare anyone to James, but then you did just that in your post by comparing RC to...
What nobody gets is you first saying we shouldn't compare anyone to James, but then you did just that in your post by comparing RC to James.
sandtrack315 wrote:
I said RC feared him. What I meant was that RC knew if he pushed James, James would just go faster, and RC was afraid of...
I said RC feared him. What I meant was that RC knew if he pushed James, James would just go faster, and RC was afraid of that. That’s about RC’s state of mind. No comparison.

If you want to compare speed, style, individual characteristics, go for it. When people vaguely go “he reminds me of James”, it means they don’t correctly remember James.

Listen to Chad Reed on the DMXS podcast, basically says recent comparisons to James don’t make any sense.
Nothing about fearing in here either. Weird.

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ShipLap
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ShipLap 9/29/2022 7:00pm
9/29/2022 7:00pm
sandtrack315 wrote:
I said RC feared him. What I meant was that RC knew if he pushed James, James would just go faster, and RC was afraid of...
I said RC feared him. What I meant was that RC knew if he pushed James, James would just go faster, and RC was afraid of that. That’s about RC’s state of mind. No comparison.

If you want to compare speed, style, individual characteristics, go for it. When people vaguely go “he reminds me of James”, it means they don’t correctly remember James.

Listen to Chad Reed on the DMXS podcast, basically says recent comparisons to James don’t make any sense.
I said RC feared him.

yes. He was fearful that bubba would jump on his back.

again.
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dsc131
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dsc131 9/29/2022 7:51pm
9/29/2022 7:51pm
dsc131 wrote:
What nobody gets is you first saying we shouldn't compare anyone to James, but then you did just that in your post by comparing RC to...
What nobody gets is you first saying we shouldn't compare anyone to James, but then you did just that in your post by comparing RC to James.
sandtrack315 wrote:
I said RC feared him. What I meant was that RC knew if he pushed James, James would just go faster, and RC was afraid of...
I said RC feared him. What I meant was that RC knew if he pushed James, James would just go faster, and RC was afraid of that. That’s about RC’s state of mind. No comparison.

If you want to compare speed, style, individual characteristics, go for it. When people vaguely go “he reminds me of James”, it means they don’t correctly remember James.

Listen to Chad Reed on the DMXS podcast, basically says recent comparisons to James don’t make any sense.
I don’t want to compare shit because there is nothing to compare…

when the checkered flag flew RICKY CARMICHAEL FUCKING OWNED JAMES ON THE RACE TRACK time and time again just like he did everyone else on the gate.

Don’t agree? Check the race and series results and get back to me.

I am a huge James Stewart fan too but let’s be real about what matters. There’s a reason everyone (including you) calls him the GOAT. G stands for greatest.
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davistld01
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davistld01 9/30/2022 9:06am
9/30/2022 9:06am
Jonny Crash wrote:
The great JS7? That guy that ruined his career taking peds. People will always compare the current best to the past best in every sport
Iridereallyslow wrote:
You’re just plain ignorant
Yeah, I was going to comment, but...nah.
sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 9/30/2022 9:09am
9/30/2022 9:09am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 9:10am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
That literally doesn’t make sense. If RC was afraid to push James in outdoors, how the hell did he win 20 of 23 nationals against him?
Outdoors, RC was a better racer, and had a 450 while James was on a 250 for a lot of those nationals. And we all remember the times James would pass RC and crash his brains out. That's besides the point, you guys are reading me saying RC feared James as me saying James won more, or was a better racer. No.

What I am saying is that, arguably the greatest racer of all time, RC, when asked if there were times when he had to ride out of his comfort zone, before the interviewer can even finish, he says James Stewart made me do that. James was not faster than RC a lot of the time, maybe most of the time, but RC knew there would be days when James would send it harder than RC was comfortable with, hence the term, "feared". Call that whatever you want, but I doubt he felt that way about Reed and Ferry and whoever else was coming in 2nd to him his entire career.

James was the only person to ever really push RC on a constant basis. If you don't remember, here you go, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilAggMt_2q8
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