Local racing is dead..

Robbirob25 wrote:

It's me your talking about... You're right. Don't we all want a shot at a good finish? iIf not go play ride don't race, but don't...

It's me your talking about... You're right. Don't we all want a shot at a good finish? iIf not go play ride don't race, but don't fault me for being competitive in a F'n motorsport... I also don't wanna go to the hospital because some 30 year old thinks he can huck a triple i have no business doing...

Jesus everyone has to be so damn correct about everything...WTF?

Titan1 wrote:

If you have no business jumping a triple, you'd be on the track with other riders who don't have any business jumping the triple...you wouldn't be...

If you have no business jumping a triple, you'd be on the track with other riders who don't have any business jumping the triple...you wouldn't be riding with guys who are doing jumps you aren't jumping.

Robbirob25 wrote:

Dude, I have been doing this 1974... I'm good without you explaining to me "how racing works". So let me get this straight! You ( yourself...

Dude, I have been doing this 1974... I'm good without you explaining to me "how racing works".

So let me get this straight! You ( yourself actually know how someone 30 years younger than me thinks) and knows what his limit is verses someone who raced over 40 years? And isn't there sandbagging "to get this mythical trophy" everyone seems to be craving.

Please. By all means, carry on...

crpilot wrote:

Its so clear that half the folks on this thread haven't read or can't comprehend why the vet group wants its own classes: Its not about...

Its so clear that half the folks on this thread haven't read or can't comprehend why the vet group wants its own classes:

Its not about the chance to get a stupid trophy or win. Read and understand that statement ....its not about winning (for most).

Its about enjoying the competitive nature of racing with other riders that have developed an understanding of RISK vs REWARD. I do not want to race with a group of 25 year old riders that are willing to punt people off the track, can't pass without crashing into me, or blatantly riding way beyond there own abilities.

The sport is already dangerous and I accept that. I don't need to be put in the ambulance because of someone else's poor decision.

Titan1 wrote:

If you have no business jumping a triple, you'd be on the track with other riders who don't have any business jumping the triple...you wouldn't be...

If you have no business jumping a triple, you'd be on the track with other riders who don't have any business jumping the triple...you wouldn't be riding with guys who are doing jumps you aren't jumping.

Robbirob25 wrote:

Dude, I have been doing this 1974... I'm good without you explaining to me "how racing works". So let me get this straight! You ( yourself...

Dude, I have been doing this 1974... I'm good without you explaining to me "how racing works".

So let me get this straight! You ( yourself actually know how someone 30 years younger than me thinks) and knows what his limit is verses someone who raced over 40 years? And isn't there sandbagging "to get this mythical trophy" everyone seems to be craving.

Please. By all means, carry on...

Titan1 wrote:

LOL... I'm 41, been racing for a long time...over 20 years...and I honestly don't see the need for vet classes in moto...but I'm more concerned with...

LOL...

I'm 41, been racing for a long time...over 20 years...and I honestly don't see the need for vet classes in moto...but I'm more concerned with having fun battling guys of my same ability, rather than getting a little plastic trophy...and unless someone is battling for the win in the pro class, they aren't the fastest guy, so their "good finish" is a figment of their imagination anyway, and a result of a million classes, and not speed. I don't think anything of someone winning the 250 C class...because there is a bunch of guys faster than them at the track that day.

I think this is a difference in perspective...You just want to say you won or "had a good finish"...so you only want to race guys your age...I'm not battling for the pro class win, so no matter how good I do in my class I'll never really have a "good finish" (because there is a bunch of guys at the track that day faster than me anyway), so I just want to battle with as many guys as possible that are close to my speed. Because battling is what makes racing fun. Riding around on a track by myself with 4 or 8 other guys is just a glorified practice day.

yz133rider wrote:

I’m 32 not quite 23 and the tracks are full of 40-50-60 year old guys who can’t hold a straight line by themselves let alone while...

I’m 32 not quite 23 and the tracks are full of 40-50-60 year old guys who can’t hold a straight line by themselves let alone while battling with someone so age really has nothing to do with safety out there.

I’ve been chopped off and ran off the track by 55+ year old riders worse than the 25+ Class.

Age doesn’t always make wisdom.

I’m one of the most cautious and my send / don’t send scale leans heavily towards the dont send in sketchy situations. And still I’d prefer bigger gates and less hand crafted classes for everyone.

I’d also prefer 25+1 lap motos.

A,b,c, and vet(45+)

A shreds scrubs jumps everything
B shreds jumps everything
C doesn’t jump everything
Vet 45+ self explanatory

There’s your 4 adult classes.


Maybe self identifying what class you’re in is antiquated and inefficient also but that’s a pretty separate discussion.

Lot of guys egos won’t let them accept the 55+ b class looks a whole lot more like c class than any b class.

And then the snowball begins forming, classes for everyone and a class for their ego.

yz133rider wrote:

I’m 32 not quite 23 and the tracks are full of 40-50-60 year old guys who can’t hold a straight line by themselves let alone while...

I’m 32 not quite 23 and the tracks are full of 40-50-60 year old guys who can’t hold a straight line by themselves let alone while battling with someone so age really has nothing to do with safety out there.

I’ve been chopped off and ran off the track by 55+ year old riders worse than the 25+ Class.

Age doesn’t always make wisdom.

I’m one of the most cautious and my send / don’t send scale leans heavily towards the dont send in sketchy situations. And still I’d prefer bigger gates and less hand crafted classes for everyone.

I’d also prefer 25+1 lap motos.

A,b,c, and vet(45+)

A shreds scrubs jumps everything
B shreds jumps everything
C doesn’t jump everything
Vet 45+ self explanatory

There’s your 4 adult classes.


Maybe self identifying what class you’re in is antiquated and inefficient also but that’s a pretty separate discussion.

Lot of guys egos won’t let them accept the 55+ b class looks a whole lot more like c class than any b class.

And then the snowball begins forming, classes for everyone and a class for their ego.

Robbirob25 wrote:

Dude, you act like all Vet riders are out there rolling around with their turn signals left on after they drove to the mall to get...

Dude, you act like all Vet riders are out there rolling around with their turn signals left on after they drove to the mall to get their steps in before it opens. This "can't hold a straight line", exist in every class including A Class. A class many of us rode back in the day including myself... So just stop with the old and feeble bullshit.

yz133rider wrote:

I’m 32 not quite 23 and the tracks are full of 40-50-60 year old guys who can’t hold a straight line by themselves let alone while...

I’m 32 not quite 23 and the tracks are full of 40-50-60 year old guys who can’t hold a straight line by themselves let alone while battling with someone so age really has nothing to do with safety out there.

I’ve been chopped off and ran off the track by 55+ year old riders worse than the 25+ Class.

Age doesn’t always make wisdom.

I’m one of the most cautious and my send / don’t send scale leans heavily towards the dont send in sketchy situations. And still I’d prefer bigger gates and less hand crafted classes for everyone.

I’d also prefer 25+1 lap motos.

A,b,c, and vet(45+)

A shreds scrubs jumps everything
B shreds jumps everything
C doesn’t jump everything
Vet 45+ self explanatory

There’s your 4 adult classes.


Maybe self identifying what class you’re in is antiquated and inefficient also but that’s a pretty separate discussion.

Lot of guys egos won’t let them accept the 55+ b class looks a whole lot more like c class than any b class.

And then the snowball begins forming, classes for everyone and a class for their ego.

Robbirob25 wrote:

Dude, you act like all Vet riders are out there rolling around with their turn signals left on after they drove to the mall to get...

Dude, you act like all Vet riders are out there rolling around with their turn signals left on after they drove to the mall to get their steps in before it opens. This "can't hold a straight line", exist in every class including A Class. A class many of us rode back in the day including myself... So just stop with the old and feeble bullshit.

Robbirob25 wrote:

Promoters are going to want to incur (2) days of overhead if the races can be ran in (1) day. I love the idea, but i...

Promoters are going to want to incur (2) days of overhead if the races can be ran in (1) day. I love the idea, but i don't see a split program working over (2) days. A local track here has ran age classes in the morning, and A,B,C classes in the afternoon in the past... This has been successful, but it has it's flaws as well. The Dad runs 50+ in the morning, but Jr. can't run 125 A until the afternoon. They would have been there all day in the old format anyway, so it is, what it is...

crpilot wrote:

I've been directly involved in managing our local track for over 15 years. -A two day event increases race insurance (paid by the day, not per...

I've been directly involved in managing our local track for over 15 years.

-A two day event increases race insurance (paid by the day, not per event)
-A two day event requires duplicate cost for medic teams (paid per person per day, not per weekend)
-Quite often tracks and races are run by clubs with significant support from volunteer help and paid resources. A second day burns out people available to work events (don't we all love it when a unexperienced flagger is posted on a blind jump???)

Multi-day full schedule events can be great for promoters and racers (less travel per seat time) but splitting a single day event into two days is not feasible for a promoter.

Most tracks are making just enough money to survive, but are not getting rich. (I was the track treasure.)

McG194 wrote:

Sounds like you should throw your hands up in the air and give up. Maybe sell the land to condo developers. That or maybe find other...

Sounds like you should throw your hands up in the air and give up. Maybe sell the land to condo developers.

That or maybe find other ways to be creative. If people don't want to be there all day and it's too expensive to run 2 days you can do a split program and do the same type of thing but in one day. Our Hare Scramble events are two days and we have kids Saturday morning, vintage and specialty classes Saturday afternoon. Old guys Sunday morning and regular displacement classes Sunday afternoon. Someone can come just for their kid Saturday morning and have the rest of the weekend for family.

Hare Scrambles series are killing it around the country, why not copy them?

Titan1 wrote:

As a vet guy, I honestly don't see the need for vet classes...why can't everyone just race based on speed/ability? Isn't the important thing racing guys...

As a vet guy, I honestly don't see the need for vet classes...why can't everyone just race based on speed/ability? Isn't the important thing racing guys of the same speed?

I'm 41, and if my speed puts me in the C class...I don't care if I'm racing another 41 year old, a 55 year old or a 17 year old, and I don't care if they are on 450's, 250's, 125's, two strokes or four strokes, if they are about my speed I'll have a blast racing them...

So why not run:

Open (run what ya brung) AA/Pro, A, B, C, D (if gates fill up split it 250/450)
85 A, B, C, D
65 A, B, C, D
Peewee A, B (ideally on a separate track)

big bikes AA/Pro 25 minute motos, 20 minute motos A, 15 minute motos B, 10 minute motos C, and 4 laps for D
Mini's, 10 minute motos A, and four lap motos for B, C, D

Maybe $100 entry AA/Pro (with a 100% pro pay back, and I'd be looking for local businesses to put up some additional money for a pro purse to attract fast guys), $75 entry per rider other big bikes, $55 minis, $35 peewee

I don't run a track though...so maybe it wouldn't work? I'm sure I'm missing something...

I'd be very interested in racing a class structure like this...even better if it was on an all natural terrain track, with some good elevation change, and let it get rough.

Titan1 wrote:

As a vet guy, I honestly don't see the need for vet classes...why can't everyone just race based on speed/ability? Isn't the important thing racing guys...

As a vet guy, I honestly don't see the need for vet classes...why can't everyone just race based on speed/ability? Isn't the important thing racing guys of the same speed?

I'm 41, and if my speed puts me in the C class...I don't care if I'm racing another 41 year old, a 55 year old or a 17 year old, and I don't care if they are on 450's, 250's, 125's, two strokes or four strokes, if they are about my speed I'll have a blast racing them...

So why not run:

Open (run what ya brung) AA/Pro, A, B, C, D (if gates fill up split it 250/450)
85 A, B, C, D
65 A, B, C, D
Peewee A, B (ideally on a separate track)

big bikes AA/Pro 25 minute motos, 20 minute motos A, 15 minute motos B, 10 minute motos C, and 4 laps for D
Mini's, 10 minute motos A, and four lap motos for B, C, D

Maybe $100 entry AA/Pro (with a 100% pro pay back, and I'd be looking for local businesses to put up some additional money for a pro purse to attract fast guys), $75 entry per rider other big bikes, $55 minis, $35 peewee

I don't run a track though...so maybe it wouldn't work? I'm sure I'm missing something...

I'd be very interested in racing a class structure like this...even better if it was on an all natural terrain track, with some good elevation change, and let it get rough.

Titan1 wrote:

Since apparently so many vets care about only racing other vets....to amend this schedule, I'd add:

-Vet Open (40+) A, B, C classes.

lestat wrote:

I have no dog in this fight , nor do I really give a shit … but it occurs to me that one thing nobody has...

I have no dog in this fight , nor do I really give a shit … but it occurs to me that one thing nobody has mentioned , is that by going to a system with a large number of classes/short motos , rather than less classes/ longer motos … the sport of motocross is being changed . The endurance aspect of motocross is slowly being filtered out and it’s moving towards being a sprint sport , more like BMX . It appears that most of the people who enjoy long riding sessions have moved to the offroad scene . Maybe this is not a bad thing but just the natural evolution of organized dirt bike races . Perhaps the future of amateur MX will be one lap races on a track with a five minute lap time and 100 classes so that everyone can enter at least five classes to get ‘seat time’ and have a chance at a decent finish .

crpilot wrote:

I've been directly involved in managing our local track for over 15 years. -A two day event increases race insurance (paid by the day, not per...

I've been directly involved in managing our local track for over 15 years.

-A two day event increases race insurance (paid by the day, not per event)
-A two day event requires duplicate cost for medic teams (paid per person per day, not per weekend)
-Quite often tracks and races are run by clubs with significant support from volunteer help and paid resources. A second day burns out people available to work events (don't we all love it when a unexperienced flagger is posted on a blind jump???)

Multi-day full schedule events can be great for promoters and racers (less travel per seat time) but splitting a single day event into two days is not feasible for a promoter.

Most tracks are making just enough money to survive, but are not getting rich. (I was the track treasure.)

McG194 wrote:

Sounds like you should throw your hands up in the air and give up. Maybe sell the land to condo developers. That or maybe find other...

Sounds like you should throw your hands up in the air and give up. Maybe sell the land to condo developers.

That or maybe find other ways to be creative. If people don't want to be there all day and it's too expensive to run 2 days you can do a split program and do the same type of thing but in one day. Our Hare Scramble events are two days and we have kids Saturday morning, vintage and specialty classes Saturday afternoon. Old guys Sunday morning and regular displacement classes Sunday afternoon. Someone can come just for their kid Saturday morning and have the rest of the weekend for family.

Hare Scrambles series are killing it around the country, why not copy them?

crpilot wrote:

No one is giving up and in fact our club and race attendance is growing. We have figured out a formula that works for MX. We...

No one is giving up and in fact our club and race attendance is growing. We have figured out a formula that works for MX. We have tried numerous formats over the last 5-7 years and based on racer feedback always end up at 20-22 classes that allows riders to enter 2-3 classes.

Splitting kids, vets, and displacement classes into different am/pm shifts does not help anyone but the under 22 crowd with no kids (smallest % of riders right now, but typically have the loudest voice on social media....). As already highlighted a huge portion of the attendees are vets with family/kids in the sport as well. If the vet races in the morning, he/she needs to hang out for his kid to race in the afternoon. On top of that you are limiting class offerings so that riders typically only qualify for one class. Day is just as long and racers have less seat time.

As a promoter we want to make as many people as possible happy but we will never achieve 100%.

crpilot wrote:

No one is giving up and in fact our club and race attendance is growing. We have figured out a formula that works for MX. We...

No one is giving up and in fact our club and race attendance is growing. We have figured out a formula that works for MX. We have tried numerous formats over the last 5-7 years and based on racer feedback always end up at 20-22 classes that allows riders to enter 2-3 classes.

Splitting kids, vets, and displacement classes into different am/pm shifts does not help anyone but the under 22 crowd with no kids (smallest % of riders right now, but typically have the loudest voice on social media....). As already highlighted a huge portion of the attendees are vets with family/kids in the sport as well. If the vet races in the morning, he/she needs to hang out for his kid to race in the afternoon. On top of that you are limiting class offerings so that riders typically only qualify for one class. Day is just as long and racers have less seat time.

As a promoter we want to make as many people as possible happy but we will never achieve 100%.

lestat wrote:

I have no dog in this fight , nor do I really give a shit … but it occurs to me that one thing nobody has...

I have no dog in this fight , nor do I really give a shit … but it occurs to me that one thing nobody has mentioned , is that by going to a system with a large number of classes/short motos , rather than less classes/ longer motos … the sport of motocross is being changed . The endurance aspect of motocross is slowly being filtered out and it’s moving towards being a sprint sport , more like BMX . It appears that most of the people who enjoy long riding sessions have moved to the offroad scene . Maybe this is not a bad thing but just the natural evolution of organized dirt bike races . Perhaps the future of amateur MX will be one lap races on a track with a five minute lap time and 100 classes so that everyone can enter at least five classes to get ‘seat time’ and have a chance at a decent finish .

yz133rider wrote:

I was talking to my buddy about exactly this yesterday. Motocross is 30 minute motos. Not a 4-6 lap sprint. Can you even call a 4...

I was talking to my buddy about exactly this yesterday.

Motocross is 30 minute motos.

Not a 4-6 lap sprint. Can you even call a 4 lap race motocross? Maybe startcross or sprintcross.

I really need to start a series with 25 minute + 1 motos and 4 classes at the most for adults.

crpilot wrote:

Our local hare scramble series has a two format race schedule. Some races are traditional 2-3 hour single races and others consist of two 30-45min "GP'S"...

Our local hare scramble series has a two format race schedule. Some races are traditional 2-3 hour single races and others consist of two 30-45min "GP'S". Both offroad/woods loops. If you follow the series you need to run both formats. It quite fun and different winners emerge depending on the format. Outright speed vs the average speed. Need to be fit for both for sure.