Tomac VS Carmichael

Big Lenny
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7/12/2022 8:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2022 9:06pm
decano51 wrote:
the story ended when you said "thrown it away". MXON winner, Outdoor titles, Perfect seasons, SX champion. Never lost an AMA chmapionship. Dethroned McGrath from Supercross...
the story ended when you said "thrown it away".

MXON winner, Outdoor titles, Perfect seasons, SX champion. Never lost an AMA chmapionship.
Dethroned McGrath from Supercross. Beat Stewart & Reed for mulitiple SX title and outdoor titles. Beat Everts.

G O A T... no matter the era. RC4 would of won. He would train harder then any one and always will come out on top.
Big Lenny wrote:
Lost a WSX title to Stewart...I heard he was on PED's...Whistling
decano51 wrote:
WSX..? really? thats what you are holding on to? hahahah! and P.EDS? you do remeber Stewart tested positive for amphetamines with a 16 month suspension
Ignorance..Seems like everybody knows the real story behind that except you Doofus Dean...Laughing
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Sully
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7/12/2022 8:37pm
Big Lenny wrote:
Lost a WSX title to Stewart...I heard he was on PED's...Whistling
decano51 wrote:
WSX..? really? thats what you are holding on to? hahahah! and P.EDS? you do remeber Stewart tested positive for amphetamines with a 16 month suspension
Big Lenny wrote:
Hey Dummy yeah...It was a longer series which RC and Chad also raced..Know your history...Dry
The WSX was only 2 extra Canadian rounds, and Heath Voss also won that title, so not a real noteworthy bullet on James' otherwise incredible resume...
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Big Lenny
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7/12/2022 8:57pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2022 9:05pm
decano51 wrote:
WSX..? really? thats what you are holding on to? hahahah! and P.EDS? you do remeber Stewart tested positive for amphetamines with a 16 month suspension
Big Lenny wrote:
Hey Dummy yeah...It was a longer series which RC and Chad also raced..Know your history...Dry
Sully wrote:
The WSX was only 2 extra Canadian rounds, and Heath Voss also won that title, so not a real noteworthy bullet on James' otherwise incredible resume...
Fuck that you alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there when he didn't race it the year RC..James and Chad did..But yoou can sure remember when Voos won it..RC lost and cried about losing his points in SX..Ya'll like to lie and change history for your own good..

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decano51
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7/12/2022 9:02pm
Big Lenny wrote:
Hey Dummy yeah...It was a longer series which RC and Chad also raced..Know your history...Dry
Sully wrote:
The WSX was only 2 extra Canadian rounds, and Heath Voss also won that title, so not a real noteworthy bullet on James' otherwise incredible resume...
Big Lenny wrote:
Fuck that you alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there when he didn't race it the year RC..James and Chad did..But yoou can sure remember...
Fuck that you alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there when he didn't race it the year RC..James and Chad did..But yoou can sure remember when Voos won it..RC lost and cried about losing his points in SX..Ya'll like to lie and change history for your own good..

seems like you cant handle truth and facts that ya boy bubba couldnt beat RC4 for a reputable title . Smile
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The Shop

Sully
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7/12/2022 9:06pm
Big Lenny wrote:
Hey Dummy yeah...It was a longer series which RC and Chad also raced..Know your history...Dry
Sully wrote:
The WSX was only 2 extra Canadian rounds, and Heath Voss also won that title, so not a real noteworthy bullet on James' otherwise incredible resume...
Big Lenny wrote:
Fuck that you alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there when he didn't race it the year RC..James and Chad did..But yoou can sure remember...
Fuck that you alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there when he didn't race it the year RC..James and Chad did..But yoou can sure remember when Voos won it..RC lost and cried about losing his points in SX..Ya'll like to lie and change history for your own good..

How do I "alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there..." when I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've ever even mentioned his name in 15 years on this site? Regardless, it doesn't negate the fact Voss also won a WSX title...

To be fair though, I do agree that RC threw a tantrum (kinda like you're doing here) over the tainted fuel to get his points back in '06.
kpiper
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7/12/2022 9:06pm
RC wasn't just the greatest of all time, he was by far the greatest of all time. No one is even close in motocross or ever will be.
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Big Lenny
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7/12/2022 9:13pm
Sully wrote:
The WSX was only 2 extra Canadian rounds, and Heath Voss also won that title, so not a real noteworthy bullet on James' otherwise incredible resume...
Big Lenny wrote:
Fuck that you alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there when he didn't race it the year RC..James and Chad did..But yoou can sure remember...
Fuck that you alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there when he didn't race it the year RC..James and Chad did..But yoou can sure remember when Voos won it..RC lost and cried about losing his points in SX..Ya'll like to lie and change history for your own good..

Sully wrote:
How do I "alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there..." when I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've ever even mentioned his name in...
How do I "alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there..." when I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've ever even mentioned his name in 15 years on this site? Regardless, it doesn't negate the fact Voss also won a WSX title...

To be fair though, I do agree that RC threw a tantrum (kinda like you're doing here) over the tainted fuel to get his points back in '06.
Chad and James got docked too..They didn't cry...Dry
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Big Lenny
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7/12/2022 9:15pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2022 9:16pm
Sully wrote:
The WSX was only 2 extra Canadian rounds, and Heath Voss also won that title, so not a real noteworthy bullet on James' otherwise incredible resume...
Big Lenny wrote:
Fuck that you alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there when he didn't race it the year RC..James and Chad did..But yoou can sure remember...
Fuck that you alway's wanna throw Heath Voss' name in there when he didn't race it the year RC..James and Chad did..But yoou can sure remember when Voos won it..RC lost and cried about losing his points in SX..Ya'll like to lie and change history for your own good..

decano51 wrote:
seems like you cant handle truth and facts that ya boy bubba couldnt beat RC4 for a reputable title . Smile
You don't know the truth..and what did I lie about?..I doubt you ever got to see them race in person...Dry
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7/12/2022 9:24pm
Comparing Tomac to RC? Hard no.

There is very few if any in the history of the sport you can compare to RC.
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7/12/2022 9:24pm
KurtJ99 wrote:
Unpopular opinion: Ricky elevated the game and that is the standard that Eli, Villopoto, Dungey and Roczen have been (not necessarily ARE) at. Eli at Hangtown...
Unpopular opinion: Ricky elevated the game and that is the standard that Eli, Villopoto, Dungey and Roczen have been (not necessarily ARE) at.
Eli at Hangtown in 2015 there was nobody on the planet throughout space and time that was going to match his pace.
You put anyone of the four riders above in their prime against RC in 2002 or 2004 and there is no perfect season.
Who would win the series? Not gonna touch that.
It's hard to say that regarding RC's perfect seasons...but man I have to agree if one of those dudes is there in his PRIME, it's probably not happening.
I hate to say that because RC is undoubtedly the GOAT, but I'd guess even he would agree.
It makes me cringe to even say that because on some level it feels blasphemous to talk about those two seasons in anything other than pure awe.
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PTshox
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7/12/2022 9:54pm
This talk of others being more talented than RC... I disagree.

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On!' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.”

― Calvin Coolidge

I could talk for hours on this above. In business... sports... etc...NOTHING is more critical than raw desire. NOTHING. Talent is a joke. You have to want it. RC.... RC wanted it.
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7/13/2022 4:28am Edited Date/Time 7/14/2022 3:16pm
As the thread title says it's Eli vs Ricky outdoors at let's say Red Bud on a nice day like we had a week ago. RC...
As the thread title says it's Eli vs Ricky outdoors at let's say Red Bud on a nice day like we had a week ago. RC was able to hold Stewart at bay for the most part outdoors, how would he handle ET3 in beast mode?
Let me do the math for yall.
RC beat stewart most times outdoors and stewart would beat tomac, so no brainer RC over tomac outdoors.
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chadder44
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7/13/2022 6:39am
I don't think it's fair to compare riders/players across different eras, but it's still fun to imagine them racing each other. I believe Ricky rode recently enough that would be able to adapt to whatever progressions the sport has made since he retired. I also think he doesn't get enough credit for his style and balance on the bike. Ok the flip side, Eli has been judged too harshly on his "bad" races in my opinion. The class is so stacked nowadays that being a little bit off on a given day can cost you many more positions than back then. Some of Eli's head scratching rides might have been podium level performances in 05-07. That being said, I would still take Ricky for a championship and I assume Eli would as well.
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motomike137
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7/13/2022 6:58am
chadder44 wrote:
I don't think it's fair to compare riders/players across different eras, but it's still fun to imagine them racing each other. I believe Ricky rode recently...
I don't think it's fair to compare riders/players across different eras, but it's still fun to imagine them racing each other. I believe Ricky rode recently enough that would be able to adapt to whatever progressions the sport has made since he retired. I also think he doesn't get enough credit for his style and balance on the bike. Ok the flip side, Eli has been judged too harshly on his "bad" races in my opinion. The class is so stacked nowadays that being a little bit off on a given day can cost you many more positions than back then. Some of Eli's head scratching rides might have been podium level performances in 05-07. That being said, I would still take Ricky for a championship and I assume Eli would as well.
It is hard to do but fun to think about. RC had very few days where he seemed mortal while Eli has had more of those. Is the class more stacked or was Ricky just that much better? Either way I'd still like to see prime RC against prime Eli on either track the last couple of weeks Wink
FLmxer
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7/13/2022 7:04am
RC waxes the floor with the whole book of winners past and present. The guy is a once in a million lifetimes. Baddest dude to ride 2 wheels.
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7/13/2022 7:21am
One thing to remember guys....We haven't even seen Beast Mode Yamaha Tomac yet this outdoors...he's been the fastest without going beast mode so far.
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Shaft721
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7/13/2022 7:48am
No rider will ever compare to RC, not Tomac, not Everts, definitely not Herlings.

Unless we see a guy come in on a 250, win his rookie year, win every other year, move up to 450, win his rookie year.....

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7/13/2022 7:55am
Not even RC beats Tomac in beast mode, but RC definitely would win the most
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kpiper
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7/13/2022 9:33am
Does anyone else think this played a part in RC wanting to win more than Eli...Eli never wanted for anything. His family was well off and famous.

RC had to win, similar to Stewart saying he had to win to pay the bills. Entirely different mentality. Not a negative about Eli but just coming from a different life scenario. But RC was on a mission to win from when he was a little kid.
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C.Worthy
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7/13/2022 12:41pm
Tomac can be fast...but he isn't always fast. He's a big head case. RC has him covered all day long. RC was mentally stronger and faster. Records back that up.
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Elbows
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7/13/2022 1:50pm
Big Lenny wrote:
James beat him for a WSX title and would've beat him for the SX title had he not thrown a tantrum..End of story..Cool
RC also lapped the entire outdoor field which happened to include the FMOTP.
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Big Lenny
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7/13/2022 2:03pm
Big Lenny wrote:
James beat him for a WSX title and would've beat him for the SX title had he not thrown a tantrum..End of story..Cool
Elbows wrote:
RC also lapped the entire outdoor field which happened to include the FMOTP.
So what..Everybody has a bad race stupid...I've seen James walk RC down in the mud too...Dry

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Big Lenny
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7/13/2022 2:07pm
Elbows wrote:
RC also lapped the entire outdoor field which happened to include the FMOTP.
Chew on this...

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EricZ38
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7/13/2022 2:13pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2022 2:16pm
I think it was McGrath who commented that Ricky plays up “the other guys were more talented than me, I just worked harder” mantra. He said Ricky was one of the most talented all around riders he’s ever seen who had a will to win like no other. Who
knows better than MC. Eli admits himself that he rarely pushes out of his comfort level and that’s why he stays healthy and his career has run so long.
And Ricky acknowledges that the field is deeper now. Pure speculation.

Really it’s kind of disingenuous to say and I’m a big fan of both. So much has changed between those eras.
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Alex814
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7/13/2022 2:22pm
Tomac in his current form would've prevented RC from going 24-0. That's about it.
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Big Lenny
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7/13/2022 2:49pm
Alex814 wrote:
Tomac in his current form would've prevented RC from going 24-0. That's about it.
Thank you...Cool
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gerg
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7/13/2022 2:59pm
Elbows wrote:
RC also lapped the entire outdoor field which happened to include the FMOTP.
Big Lenny wrote:
Chew on this...

Bro...like James was like fark....insane man. He is without a fucking doubt the greatest SX rider of all time..like psssshhh yeah bro like fark.
Like...I'd be like Kevin Windham level in Ju Jitsu but I'm no James man that bro just like fully sick bro fark.

Insane !!!!

But bro like...you can't compare James to Jett...Jett is like bro straight up faster than James farrkk!!!!!
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Big Lenny
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7/13/2022 5:36pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2022 5:42pm
gerg wrote:
Bro...like James was like fark....insane man. He is without a fucking doubt the greatest SX rider of all time..like psssshhh yeah bro like fark. Like...I'd be...
Bro...like James was like fark....insane man. He is without a fucking doubt the greatest SX rider of all time..like psssshhh yeah bro like fark.
Like...I'd be like Kevin Windham level in Ju Jitsu but I'm no James man that bro just like fully sick bro fark.

Insane !!!!

But bro like...you can't compare James to Jett...Jett is like bro straight up faster than James farrkk!!!!!
Fark Donut Boy?...Cool
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tomlopez
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7/13/2022 6:28pm
I think this conversation is a lot more nuanced than some would like to believe. RC would have a really, really good chance at being Tomac for a championship. Probably a 95% chance or higher, and that's because he was on his game every single round of every single season. Tomac, obviously, has had countless off rounds.

What some people might not account for is that Tomac's bad rounds where he finishes in 7th, 8th, or 9th would probably land him a 3rd, 4th, or 5th in the mid-2000s. His bad days aren't as bad as we think, the field just has more riders that are close to that elite level so if you're a tick off, you're toast.

In terms of whose peak speed was better, I don't think there's a real answer. I think the small handful of guys that have won tons of races & titles, the Carmichaels, Stewarts, Tomacs, Villopotos etc of the world, all have the ability to go however insanely fast as they want when they're feeling it. I don't think Tomac's 2015 form is necessarily the no-doubt fastest anyone has ever ridden a dirtbike. Same goes for Stewart in '08, Villopoto in '13, or Carmichael in, well, any season he competed in. There's a 100% speed that only these guys, plus a handful of others, could hit. The difference between these guys is how often they hit that 100% speed. Villopoto had it almost all the time on the 250, but in terms of outdoors on the 450, his only years were '11 and '13, and he only really threw down that pace in '13. Tomac hit it at the start of '15 and every few rounds from '17-'19, and I think he's hit it a few times again this season. Basically, most of them couldn't hit it consistently for a decade.

Except Ricky did. And that's why he's the GOAT.

Tomac could beat Ricky here and there. There isn't a doubt in my mind that his peak speed is on the same level that RIcky's was. But Tomac would only match him for half of the rounds, if that. Ricky would almost certainly win a 24-moto championship against Tomac. I will say, I think the two riders since Carmichael who could make it even slightly tough for him include Tomac, and the other is Villopoto. Stewart's main specialty was SX, Carmichael never really had too much trouble with him in moto.
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DerickYZ
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7/13/2022 6:34pm
RC would probably win by half a lap no doubt.
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