2000 Mules.

6/22/2022 10:08am
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike"

Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell,
"Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver of inflation in America?"
Fed Chair Powell's response,
"No. Inflation was high, certainly before the war in Ukraine broke out."

The thing is with the lefties, they have so many conspiracy theories, as soon as you question
their narrative they move on to another conspiracy. And with the media parroting their talking
points till 30 seconds later when the next new conspiracy theory comes out, they get away with it.
Which is why they had to censor (disappear) anyone who questioned their narrative to make it
seem like if you asked questions you're some sort of minority.
Here's the thing, I love my country, I believe there is enough reason to have a legit investigation.
I know we can never change what happened but we can change the future by knowing the past.
TM
8
3
6/22/2022 10:32am
indy_maico wrote:
Well, Ms Pelosi is guilty of exaggerating a bit. Moody's Analytics puts it at $1.61, bu that was back in 2010, so maybe the Speaker of...
Well, Ms Pelosi is guilty of exaggerating a bit.

Moody's Analytics puts it at $1.61, bu that was back in 2010, so maybe the Speaker of the House is right on.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128449659
ToolMaker wrote:
Well then, if you're guaranteed a 60%-70% return why are we not spending everything on unemployment. Hell, borrow another few trillion at 5% to get the...
Well then, if you're guaranteed a 60%-70% return why are we not spending everything on unemployment.
Hell, borrow another few trillion at 5% to get the 70% return. Good statisticians can make any numbers look
however they want.
TM
early wrote:
Economic activity is money being passed around, not money created out of thin air. When money goes to people that spend it domestically you get more...
Economic activity is money being passed around, not money created out of thin air. When money goes to people that spend it domestically you get more economic activity, when money goes to people that save it, spend it in foreign countries, or put it in the stock market you don't get more economic activity. (stock market is debatable but you get the idea)
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people.
Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have created $1 of economic activity. Now let's say I buy
1 tomato and one banana from the farmer with that $1. I created $1 of economic activity. You did not create anything
more than the one dollar you spent. In your narrative, you are trying to double count what I spent onto what you spent.
Now that may sound great for your narrative, but you didn't spend it, I did. But if you tell the story right, people will
believe you're responsible for everywhere that dollar goes. So in your story, your dollar turns into $1.70, then by your logic my dollar must turn into $1.70,the farmer's dollar turn's into $1.70, the trucker's dollar must turn into $1.70, the fertilizer's dollar must turn into $1.70, now we're up to $8.50 and just getting started. When you spent your dollar,
that's it, you spent your dollar. The only activity you created was one tomato for a $1
TM
1
1
early
Posts
9859
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
6/22/2022 10:50am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2022 11:13am
ToolMaker wrote:
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people. Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have...
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people.
Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have created $1 of economic activity. Now let's say I buy
1 tomato and one banana from the farmer with that $1. I created $1 of economic activity. You did not create anything
more than the one dollar you spent. In your narrative, you are trying to double count what I spent onto what you spent.
Now that may sound great for your narrative, but you didn't spend it, I did. But if you tell the story right, people will
believe you're responsible for everywhere that dollar goes. So in your story, your dollar turns into $1.70, then by your logic my dollar must turn into $1.70,the farmer's dollar turn's into $1.70, the trucker's dollar must turn into $1.70, the fertilizer's dollar must turn into $1.70, now we're up to $8.50 and just getting started. When you spent your dollar,
that's it, you spent your dollar. The only activity you created was one tomato for a $1
TM
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry about recession because the amount of currency won't go down.

More to the point, I think this is how they come to that conclusion. If you assume a 40% markup on transactions and you start with $1
$1 ×.4 = .40
.40 × .4 = .16
.16 × .4 = .06
.06 x .4 = .03
.03 × .4 = .01

Add it all up and get about $1.66 of economic activity

If I buy the tomato from you for $1 you didn't make $1, you made $1minus expenses, you made about $.40 the other $.60 was paid to others. This is the basis of trickle down economics.

If I don't buy the tomato from you, you don't make any money.
1
6/22/2022 11:15am
I'm not saying money doesn't change hands. I'm just saying, if you spent a dollar, you spent a dollar.
So, when you say we benefit more than a dollar by giving away a dollar, the logical conclusion
is, give away all your dollars and benefit more. So again, a big whopper of a disingenuous lie.
The narrative is that you gave away a dollar and that enabled the dollar to be spent more times.
That is simply not true, the dollar gets to be spent more times because people down the line
WORKED to get that dollar and spend it again. If they don't WORK to get that dollar it does not
get in their possession to spend to the next person that WORKS for it. So you are discounting
everyone working to advance a lie. But there is just enough verbage in there to convince people
of the lie.
TM
1
2

The Shop

6/22/2022 11:22am
ToolMaker wrote:
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people. Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have...
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people.
Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have created $1 of economic activity. Now let's say I buy
1 tomato and one banana from the farmer with that $1. I created $1 of economic activity. You did not create anything
more than the one dollar you spent. In your narrative, you are trying to double count what I spent onto what you spent.
Now that may sound great for your narrative, but you didn't spend it, I did. But if you tell the story right, people will
believe you're responsible for everywhere that dollar goes. So in your story, your dollar turns into $1.70, then by your logic my dollar must turn into $1.70,the farmer's dollar turn's into $1.70, the trucker's dollar must turn into $1.70, the fertilizer's dollar must turn into $1.70, now we're up to $8.50 and just getting started. When you spent your dollar,
that's it, you spent your dollar. The only activity you created was one tomato for a $1
TM
early wrote:
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry...
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry about recession because the amount of currency won't go down.

More to the point, I think this is how they come to that conclusion. If you assume a 40% markup on transactions and you start with $1
$1 ×.4 = .40
.40 × .4 = .16
.16 × .4 = .06
.06 x .4 = .03
.03 × .4 = .01

Add it all up and get about $1.66 of economic activity

If I buy the tomato from you for $1 you didn't make $1, you made $1minus expenses, you made about $.40 the other $.60 was paid to others. This is the basis of trickle down economics.

If I don't buy the tomato from you, you don't make any money.
See there you go with your conspiracies again. There is no such thing as trickle down economics.
It was a term used by democrats in the 80s
That's how it works, create language to create a narrative.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2013/12/06/trickle-down-economi…
2
2
early
Posts
9859
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
6/22/2022 11:27am
ToolMaker wrote:
I'm not saying money doesn't change hands. I'm just saying, if you spent a dollar, you spent a dollar. So, when you say we benefit more...
I'm not saying money doesn't change hands. I'm just saying, if you spent a dollar, you spent a dollar.
So, when you say we benefit more than a dollar by giving away a dollar, the logical conclusion
is, give away all your dollars and benefit more. So again, a big whopper of a disingenuous lie.
The narrative is that you gave away a dollar and that enabled the dollar to be spent more times.
That is simply not true, the dollar gets to be spent more times because people down the line
WORKED to get that dollar and spend it again. If they don't WORK to get that dollar it does not
get in their possession to spend to the next person that WORKS for it. So you are discounting
everyone working to advance a lie. But there is just enough verbage in there to convince people
of the lie.
TM
I'm not saying people should live on unemployment. I'm just saying that's how you think about economic drivers. The same philosophy is used when talking about bringing an industry to a small town usually in regards to tax breaks and such.
indy_maico
Posts
5102
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
6/22/2022 11:40am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2022 11:41am
ToolMaker wrote:
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people. Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have...
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people.
Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have created $1 of economic activity. Now let's say I buy
1 tomato and one banana from the farmer with that $1. I created $1 of economic activity. You did not create anything
more than the one dollar you spent. In your narrative, you are trying to double count what I spent onto what you spent.
Now that may sound great for your narrative, but you didn't spend it, I did. But if you tell the story right, people will
believe you're responsible for everywhere that dollar goes. So in your story, your dollar turns into $1.70, then by your logic my dollar must turn into $1.70,the farmer's dollar turn's into $1.70, the trucker's dollar must turn into $1.70, the fertilizer's dollar must turn into $1.70, now we're up to $8.50 and just getting started. When you spent your dollar,
that's it, you spent your dollar. The only activity you created was one tomato for a $1
TM
early wrote:
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry...
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry about recession because the amount of currency won't go down.

More to the point, I think this is how they come to that conclusion. If you assume a 40% markup on transactions and you start with $1
$1 ×.4 = .40
.40 × .4 = .16
.16 × .4 = .06
.06 x .4 = .03
.03 × .4 = .01

Add it all up and get about $1.66 of economic activity

If I buy the tomato from you for $1 you didn't make $1, you made $1minus expenses, you made about $.40 the other $.60 was paid to others. This is the basis of trickle down economics.

If I don't buy the tomato from you, you don't make any money.
ToolMaker wrote:
See there you go with your conspiracies again. There is no such thing as trickle down economics. It was a term used by democrats in the...
See there you go with your conspiracies again. There is no such thing as trickle down economics.
It was a term used by democrats in the 80s
That's how it works, create language to create a narrative.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2013/12/06/trickle-down-economi…
"Trickle-down economics" goes back to Herbert Hoover's days.

Nothing to do with Democrats in the '80's other than they used it as another term for 'supply-side economics'

I'd say your guy at Forbes hijacked the idea to fit his own narrative.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trickledowntheory.asp

1
6/22/2022 12:04pm
early wrote:
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry...
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry about recession because the amount of currency won't go down.

More to the point, I think this is how they come to that conclusion. If you assume a 40% markup on transactions and you start with $1
$1 ×.4 = .40
.40 × .4 = .16
.16 × .4 = .06
.06 x .4 = .03
.03 × .4 = .01

Add it all up and get about $1.66 of economic activity

If I buy the tomato from you for $1 you didn't make $1, you made $1minus expenses, you made about $.40 the other $.60 was paid to others. This is the basis of trickle down economics.

If I don't buy the tomato from you, you don't make any money.
ToolMaker wrote:
See there you go with your conspiracies again. There is no such thing as trickle down economics. It was a term used by democrats in the...
See there you go with your conspiracies again. There is no such thing as trickle down economics.
It was a term used by democrats in the 80s
That's how it works, create language to create a narrative.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2013/12/06/trickle-down-economi…
indy_maico wrote:
"Trickle-down economics" goes back to Herbert Hoover's days. Nothing to do with Democrats in the '80's other than they used it as another term for 'supply-side...
"Trickle-down economics" goes back to Herbert Hoover's days.

Nothing to do with Democrats in the '80's other than they used it as another term for 'supply-side economics'

I'd say your guy at Forbes hijacked the idea to fit his own narrative.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trickledowntheory.asp

Well, you're right on that as Uncle Google's top hit says it's a joke made up by Will Rodgers.
And now the joke is some sort of economic road map?
So you're saying the top hit on Google that claims the democrats used the term against RR
is incorrect? Like that invalidates the claim that Trickle Down Economics is not a real thing.
Ok, you go argue with google about it.
TM
1
6/22/2022 12:22pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people. Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have...
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people.
Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have created $1 of economic activity. Now let's say I buy
1 tomato and one banana from the farmer with that $1. I created $1 of economic activity. You did not create anything
more than the one dollar you spent. In your narrative, you are trying to double count what I spent onto what you spent.
Now that may sound great for your narrative, but you didn't spend it, I did. But if you tell the story right, people will
believe you're responsible for everywhere that dollar goes. So in your story, your dollar turns into $1.70, then by your logic my dollar must turn into $1.70,the farmer's dollar turn's into $1.70, the trucker's dollar must turn into $1.70, the fertilizer's dollar must turn into $1.70, now we're up to $8.50 and just getting started. When you spent your dollar,
that's it, you spent your dollar. The only activity you created was one tomato for a $1
TM
early wrote:
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry...
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry about recession because the amount of currency won't go down.

More to the point, I think this is how they come to that conclusion. If you assume a 40% markup on transactions and you start with $1
$1 ×.4 = .40
.40 × .4 = .16
.16 × .4 = .06
.06 x .4 = .03
.03 × .4 = .01

Add it all up and get about $1.66 of economic activity

If I buy the tomato from you for $1 you didn't make $1, you made $1minus expenses, you made about $.40 the other $.60 was paid to others. This is the basis of trickle down economics.

If I don't buy the tomato from you, you don't make any money.
Just curious,
Let's say I charge $100 to rebuild your carburetor and you charge $100 to change the wheels on my bike.
So we say, you change the wheels and I'll rebuild your carb. Do we have to each physically give each other
$100 bills for there to have been economic activity? What if I gave you the $100 first? Do there have to be 2 $100 bills? Did I just start the economic activity that we did simultaneously if I gave it to you first? Did the 2 of us just start $320 with the same $100 that you gave right back?
TM
Yeti831
Posts
1348
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
UT US
6/22/2022 1:12pm Edited Date/Time 6/22/2022 1:14pm
indy_maico wrote:
I think its all been covered in this thread according to the playbook. Well done, everyone! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/06/22/556265/s1200_TMW2022_06_22color.jpg[/img]
I think its all been covered in this thread according to the playbook. Well done, everyone!


Not to argue some of the calamity on the right, but would you mind chipping in on the “protests” from when Trump won his term and his inauguration, or is that an off limits discussion?
2
jjavaman
Posts
1600
Joined
3/12/2015
Location
CA
6/22/2022 1:21pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike" Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell, "Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver...
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike"

Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell,
"Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver of inflation in America?"
Fed Chair Powell's response,
"No. Inflation was high, certainly before the war in Ukraine broke out."

The thing is with the lefties, they have so many conspiracy theories, as soon as you question
their narrative they move on to another conspiracy. And with the media parroting their talking
points till 30 seconds later when the next new conspiracy theory comes out, they get away with it.
Which is why they had to censor (disappear) anyone who questioned their narrative to make it
seem like if you asked questions you're some sort of minority.
Here's the thing, I love my country, I believe there is enough reason to have a legit investigation.
I know we can never change what happened but we can change the future by knowing the past.
TM
The thing with you righties is you have zero morals, you’re ok with spray tan fat guy begging for 11000 votes. The shit that’s being thrown at the one term guy BY republicans in the Jan 6th hearings is kinda telling or are you hiding your head in the sand?
1
10
early
Posts
9859
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
6/22/2022 1:46pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Just curious, Let's say I charge $100 to rebuild your carburetor and you charge $100 to change the wheels on my bike. So we say, you...
Just curious,
Let's say I charge $100 to rebuild your carburetor and you charge $100 to change the wheels on my bike.
So we say, you change the wheels and I'll rebuild your carb. Do we have to each physically give each other
$100 bills for there to have been economic activity? What if I gave you the $100 first? Do there have to be 2 $100 bills? Did I just start the economic activity that we did simultaneously if I gave it to you first? Did the 2 of us just start $320 with the same $100 that you gave right back?
TM
If we are both operating with zero overhead, then that would be $200 worth of economic activity or GDP growth.

I'm not saying this is the right way to think about things but this is the way economists and accountants and most sides of the political spectrum think and talk about this stuff. There 2.3 Trillion dollars worth of US currency in circulation right now yet the 2021 US GDP was 23 Trillion dollars. So however you want to think about economic activity is up to you.

Of course everyone can't collect money and live without doing any work because then there would be no supply of things to spend the money on. This is the majority of the economic problems we are seeing right now is constrained supply on account of Covid and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Whatever the merits of each shock to the system are is a different issue.

I'm not interested in getting into the semantics of trickle down economics.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CURRCIR
1
6/22/2022 2:27pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Just curious, Let's say I charge $100 to rebuild your carburetor and you charge $100 to change the wheels on my bike. So we say, you...
Just curious,
Let's say I charge $100 to rebuild your carburetor and you charge $100 to change the wheels on my bike.
So we say, you change the wheels and I'll rebuild your carb. Do we have to each physically give each other
$100 bills for there to have been economic activity? What if I gave you the $100 first? Do there have to be 2 $100 bills? Did I just start the economic activity that we did simultaneously if I gave it to you first? Did the 2 of us just start $320 with the same $100 that you gave right back?
TM
early wrote:
If we are both operating with zero overhead, then that would be $200 worth of economic activity or GDP growth. I'm not saying this is the...
If we are both operating with zero overhead, then that would be $200 worth of economic activity or GDP growth.

I'm not saying this is the right way to think about things but this is the way economists and accountants and most sides of the political spectrum think and talk about this stuff. There 2.3 Trillion dollars worth of US currency in circulation right now yet the 2021 US GDP was 23 Trillion dollars. So however you want to think about economic activity is up to you.

Of course everyone can't collect money and live without doing any work because then there would be no supply of things to spend the money on. This is the majority of the economic problems we are seeing right now is constrained supply on account of Covid and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Whatever the merits of each shock to the system are is a different issue.

I'm not interested in getting into the semantics of trickle down economics.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CURRCIR
Well, I'm no economist so that's must be the problem. Because from life experiences,
there just never was $200. The only money (economic activity) spent, was the $12
we spent on the six pack we went through bullshitting about things.
TM
early
Posts
9859
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
6/22/2022 2:40pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Well, I'm no economist so that's must be the problem. Because from life experiences, there just never was $200. The only money (economic activity) spent, was...
Well, I'm no economist so that's must be the problem. Because from life experiences,
there just never was $200. The only money (economic activity) spent, was the $12
we spent on the six pack we went through bullshitting about things.
TM
At least it was good beer if it was $12 a 6 pack.

Here's a tasty one if you can find it in your neck of the woods.
1
6/22/2022 3:38pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Well, I'm no economist so that's must be the problem. Because from life experiences, there just never was $200. The only money (economic activity) spent, was...
Well, I'm no economist so that's must be the problem. Because from life experiences,
there just never was $200. The only money (economic activity) spent, was the $12
we spent on the six pack we went through bullshitting about things.
TM
early wrote:
At least it was good beer if it was $12 a 6 pack. Here's a tasty one if you can find it in your neck of...
At least it was good beer if it was $12 a 6 pack.

Here's a tasty one if you can find it in your neck of the woods.
We do have that around, and I've probably enjoyed a bottle or 2.
PizzaPort Chronic ale has been my go to lately.
https://www.pizzaport.com/grog/chronic-ale
1
wolf18
Posts
113
Joined
3/22/2022
Location
Woodland Park, CO US
6/22/2022 3:43pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike" Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell, "Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver...
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike"

Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell,
"Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver of inflation in America?"
Fed Chair Powell's response,
"No. Inflation was high, certainly before the war in Ukraine broke out."

The thing is with the lefties, they have so many conspiracy theories, as soon as you question
their narrative they move on to another conspiracy. And with the media parroting their talking
points till 30 seconds later when the next new conspiracy theory comes out, they get away with it.
Which is why they had to censor (disappear) anyone who questioned their narrative to make it
seem like if you asked questions you're some sort of minority.
Here's the thing, I love my country, I believe there is enough reason to have a legit investigation.
I know we can never change what happened but we can change the future by knowing the past.
TM
jjavaman wrote:
The thing with you righties is you have zero morals, you’re ok with spray tan fat guy begging for 11000 votes. The shit that’s being thrown...
The thing with you righties is you have zero morals, you’re ok with spray tan fat guy begging for 11000 votes. The shit that’s being thrown at the one term guy BY republicans in the Jan 6th hearings is kinda telling or are you hiding your head in the sand?
Do you get no attention at home? Growing up? Jesus man, go ride and remind yourself that there’s more to life than this crap.
4
1
6/22/2022 3:44pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike" Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell, "Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver...
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike"

Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell,
"Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver of inflation in America?"
Fed Chair Powell's response,
"No. Inflation was high, certainly before the war in Ukraine broke out."

The thing is with the lefties, they have so many conspiracy theories, as soon as you question
their narrative they move on to another conspiracy. And with the media parroting their talking
points till 30 seconds later when the next new conspiracy theory comes out, they get away with it.
Which is why they had to censor (disappear) anyone who questioned their narrative to make it
seem like if you asked questions you're some sort of minority.
Here's the thing, I love my country, I believe there is enough reason to have a legit investigation.
I know we can never change what happened but we can change the future by knowing the past.
TM
jjavaman wrote:
The thing with you righties is you have zero morals, you’re ok with spray tan fat guy begging for 11000 votes. The shit that’s being thrown...
The thing with you righties is you have zero morals, you’re ok with spray tan fat guy begging for 11000 votes. The shit that’s being thrown at the one term guy BY republicans in the Jan 6th hearings is kinda telling or are you hiding your head in the sand?
Yawn.
2
6/22/2022 3:46pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Well, I'm no economist so that's must be the problem. Because from life experiences, there just never was $200. The only money (economic activity) spent, was...
Well, I'm no economist so that's must be the problem. Because from life experiences,
there just never was $200. The only money (economic activity) spent, was the $12
we spent on the six pack we went through bullshitting about things.
TM
early wrote:
At least it was good beer if it was $12 a 6 pack. Here's a tasty one if you can find it in your neck of...
At least it was good beer if it was $12 a 6 pack.

Here's a tasty one if you can find it in your neck of the woods.
After a conversation like this we have to be able to enjoy something good right?
We can't have this much fun and ruin it with bud light?
1
6/23/2022 5:24am
ToolMaker wrote:
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people. Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have...
Again, anyone worth their weight in salt can make any narrative to influence people.
Let's say you buy a tomato from me for $1. You have created $1 of economic activity. Now let's say I buy
1 tomato and one banana from the farmer with that $1. I created $1 of economic activity. You did not create anything
more than the one dollar you spent. In your narrative, you are trying to double count what I spent onto what you spent.
Now that may sound great for your narrative, but you didn't spend it, I did. But if you tell the story right, people will
believe you're responsible for everywhere that dollar goes. So in your story, your dollar turns into $1.70, then by your logic my dollar must turn into $1.70,the farmer's dollar turn's into $1.70, the trucker's dollar must turn into $1.70, the fertilizer's dollar must turn into $1.70, now we're up to $8.50 and just getting started. When you spent your dollar,
that's it, you spent your dollar. The only activity you created was one tomato for a $1
TM
early wrote:
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry...
So the only measure of economic activity is the absolute amount of currency in circulation at a given moment? I guess we don't have to worry about recession because the amount of currency won't go down.

More to the point, I think this is how they come to that conclusion. If you assume a 40% markup on transactions and you start with $1
$1 ×.4 = .40
.40 × .4 = .16
.16 × .4 = .06
.06 x .4 = .03
.03 × .4 = .01

Add it all up and get about $1.66 of economic activity

If I buy the tomato from you for $1 you didn't make $1, you made $1minus expenses, you made about $.40 the other $.60 was paid to others. This is the basis of trickle down economics.

If I don't buy the tomato from you, you don't make any money.
So gotta kick the dead horse. I'm feeling a little bamboozled this morning. Like I said, not an economist here, just a guy that knows if you don't pay the electric bill they turn the lights off. So while economists probably have formulas that make sense only to them. What you did sir, and I didn't catch it, was defend Pelosi by changing her words from economic growth to economic activity. Apparently, as best I can tell, even the economists say those are different.
TM
1
1
6/23/2022 5:36am
Nancy from a few months ago, about BBB and the legislation adding to inflation,

"So when we're having this discussion, it's important to dispel some of those who say, well it's the government spending – no, it isn't," she continued. "The government spending is doing the exact reverse, reducing the national debt. It is not inflationary."

So if the government just spends more, we'll reduce the national debt. 🤔 I guess you have to be an economist (on the lefty payroll) to figure that one out.
TM
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1
6/23/2022 5:39am
ToolMaker wrote:
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike" Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell, "Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver...
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike"

Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell,
"Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver of inflation in America?"
Fed Chair Powell's response,
"No. Inflation was high, certainly before the war in Ukraine broke out."

The thing is with the lefties, they have so many conspiracy theories, as soon as you question
their narrative they move on to another conspiracy. And with the media parroting their talking
points till 30 seconds later when the next new conspiracy theory comes out, they get away with it.
Which is why they had to censor (disappear) anyone who questioned their narrative to make it
seem like if you asked questions you're some sort of minority.
Here's the thing, I love my country, I believe there is enough reason to have a legit investigation.
I know we can never change what happened but we can change the future by knowing the past.
TM
jjavaman wrote:
The thing with you righties is you have zero morals, you’re ok with spray tan fat guy begging for 11000 votes. The shit that’s being thrown...
The thing with you righties is you have zero morals, you’re ok with spray tan fat guy begging for 11000 votes. The shit that’s being thrown at the one term guy BY republicans in the Jan 6th hearings is kinda telling or are you hiding your head in the sand?
the funny part is that you probably honestly BELIEVE what you just typed. "No morals". LOL. From the party fighting for the "right" to butcher your own unborn child or to teach 4y olds about anal sex. Yeesh.
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5
mvd61
Posts
1250
Joined
10/15/2021
Location
Brandon, SD US
6/23/2022 6:35am
ToolMaker wrote:
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike" Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell, "Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver...
Here's another whopper, "The Putin Price Hike"

Sen Bill Hagerty to Fed Chair Powell,
"Would you say that the war in Ukraine is the primary driver of inflation in America?"
Fed Chair Powell's response,
"No. Inflation was high, certainly before the war in Ukraine broke out."

The thing is with the lefties, they have so many conspiracy theories, as soon as you question
their narrative they move on to another conspiracy. And with the media parroting their talking
points till 30 seconds later when the next new conspiracy theory comes out, they get away with it.
Which is why they had to censor (disappear) anyone who questioned their narrative to make it
seem like if you asked questions you're some sort of minority.
Here's the thing, I love my country, I believe there is enough reason to have a legit investigation.
I know we can never change what happened but we can change the future by knowing the past.
TM
jjavaman wrote:
The thing with you righties is you have zero morals, you’re ok with spray tan fat guy begging for 11000 votes. The shit that’s being thrown...
The thing with you righties is you have zero morals, you’re ok with spray tan fat guy begging for 11000 votes. The shit that’s being thrown at the one term guy BY republicans in the Jan 6th hearings is kinda telling or are you hiding your head in the sand?
Don’t you and little Castro have a coffee shop to shut down for serving coffee to truckers? Time to tuck your front tail bud. Give it up.
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2
early
Posts
9859
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
6/23/2022 8:08am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2022 8:10am
Good morning Toolmaker! (sorry the quote got eliminated)

Well to start off, I have to admit that I am just an armchair economist, I have 1 semester of microeconomics as part of an engineering degree requirement. But I do have a lifetime of being raised by cheap parents and while on my own my budget has never had much extra room in it, so I think I'm pretty tuned into the plight of the common man.

Also, I'll admit I have no idea what Pelosi said or the context. I'll also add that old bag is bad for the Dem party and should have stepped aside a long time ago.

As far as economic growth vs economic activity. I would say that economic growth is the measure in change of economic activity. Basically acceleration vs velocity, growth (positive or negative) vs activity (higher speed or lower speed). So, in a sense they go hand in hand.

Of course the limiting factor to the investment of those unemployment dollars is sustainability. Does that money generate momentum?

We are living through a very interesting experiment. 2 years ago there's there's crash of oil prices the led to negative momentum in the system. Companies went bankrupt, refineries were shuttered. The US has lost almost 1 million barrels A DAY of oil refining capacity in the last 2 years.

The first year of this, oil consumption was still low, so the economic momentum was shifted to other areas, and with services mostly sidelined goods and materials say huge gains, we are still above trending for consumption of goods in the US over the last 2 years.




So are we seeing inflation because of enhanced unemployment? Yes, that drove economic activity. Now unemployment is low and there are no enhanced federal benefits.

Are we seeing inflation because of BBB? Yes, this is taking labor and materials.

Are we seeing inflation because oil production and refining is lower than it was in 2019? Yes, this is an outcome of not giving these industries "unemployment".

Inelastic vs elastic is an economics term for necessary vs discretionary. Inelastic industries are basically ones necessary for society to function. These industries are generally heavily regulated and subsidized. More "welfare" for oil refineries 2 years ago would have had great benefit today.

But really I jumped back into this thread for someone to explain to me how this person was determined to be a "mule" delivering multiple ballots to multiple drop boxes from this cell phone map.
SCR
Posts
1107
Joined
12/10/2009
Location
CA US
6/23/2022 8:38am
Unemployment checks to people for not being productive does not and can not help economic growth . Employers pay into federal and state unemployment funds . Taking money from employers and giving it to non working people doesn't turn into 1.60 in the economy if you continue doing it you bankrupt the funds or the businesses. Or go to the fed gov to borrow money to prevent bankruptcy of the funds. Or do what just happened and send everyone home and print a few trillion, hand it out and you get mass inflation and zero real growth.
Only real investment in labor, equipment, technology etc increases economic growth.
Nancy is a big fat crazy liar.
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2
tuggy450
Posts
1389
Joined
3/12/2016
Location
Massapequa, NY US
6/23/2022 8:48am
early wrote:
Good morning Toolmaker! (sorry the quote got eliminated) Well to start off, I have to admit that I am just an armchair economist, I have 1...
Good morning Toolmaker! (sorry the quote got eliminated)

Well to start off, I have to admit that I am just an armchair economist, I have 1 semester of microeconomics as part of an engineering degree requirement. But I do have a lifetime of being raised by cheap parents and while on my own my budget has never had much extra room in it, so I think I'm pretty tuned into the plight of the common man.

Also, I'll admit I have no idea what Pelosi said or the context. I'll also add that old bag is bad for the Dem party and should have stepped aside a long time ago.

As far as economic growth vs economic activity. I would say that economic growth is the measure in change of economic activity. Basically acceleration vs velocity, growth (positive or negative) vs activity (higher speed or lower speed). So, in a sense they go hand in hand.

Of course the limiting factor to the investment of those unemployment dollars is sustainability. Does that money generate momentum?

We are living through a very interesting experiment. 2 years ago there's there's crash of oil prices the led to negative momentum in the system. Companies went bankrupt, refineries were shuttered. The US has lost almost 1 million barrels A DAY of oil refining capacity in the last 2 years.

The first year of this, oil consumption was still low, so the economic momentum was shifted to other areas, and with services mostly sidelined goods and materials say huge gains, we are still above trending for consumption of goods in the US over the last 2 years.




So are we seeing inflation because of enhanced unemployment? Yes, that drove economic activity. Now unemployment is low and there are no enhanced federal benefits.

Are we seeing inflation because of BBB? Yes, this is taking labor and materials.

Are we seeing inflation because oil production and refining is lower than it was in 2019? Yes, this is an outcome of not giving these industries "unemployment".

Inelastic vs elastic is an economics term for necessary vs discretionary. Inelastic industries are basically ones necessary for society to function. These industries are generally heavily regulated and subsidized. More "welfare" for oil refineries 2 years ago would have had great benefit today.

But really I jumped back into this thread for someone to explain to me how this person was determined to be a "mule" delivering multiple ballots to multiple drop boxes from this cell phone map.
No sure why they show tracking data for the devices that did not meet there own criteria. None of the devices they show or track on the maps, were included because they were considered to not have enough visits to drop boxes. Perhaps they were trying to show it's really not 107 people visiting drop boxes over 2800 times dropping off multiple ballots.

Good point though, I think he is trolling, waiting for someone to call that out, so he can say, yeah, we're not even including those people.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they have they suspect on tape dropping off multiple ballots. Time stamped video. and is also not a resident of the state, dropping off ballots in the middle of the night. Perhaps e-mail Dinesh and ask him.

SO, that was an example of someone they actually did not list, who they infer is likely suspect. but did not meet their criteria. for inclusion. Certainly doesn't look like any of the cell phone maps they provided are over 14 box visits. So they got a pass.


They were not included in the 107 devices, people listed as Mules that visited the boxes a total of 2824 times as far as I can tell. they list the devices and visits in the following

https://www.truethevote.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/FILE_5193_no-met…
1
6/23/2022 9:19am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2022 9:22am
early wrote:
Good morning Toolmaker! (sorry the quote got eliminated) Well to start off, I have to admit that I am just an armchair economist, I have 1...
Good morning Toolmaker! (sorry the quote got eliminated)

Well to start off, I have to admit that I am just an armchair economist, I have 1 semester of microeconomics as part of an engineering degree requirement. But I do have a lifetime of being raised by cheap parents and while on my own my budget has never had much extra room in it, so I think I'm pretty tuned into the plight of the common man.

Also, I'll admit I have no idea what Pelosi said or the context. I'll also add that old bag is bad for the Dem party and should have stepped aside a long time ago.

As far as economic growth vs economic activity. I would say that economic growth is the measure in change of economic activity. Basically acceleration vs velocity, growth (positive or negative) vs activity (higher speed or lower speed). So, in a sense they go hand in hand.

Of course the limiting factor to the investment of those unemployment dollars is sustainability. Does that money generate momentum?

We are living through a very interesting experiment. 2 years ago there's there's crash of oil prices the led to negative momentum in the system. Companies went bankrupt, refineries were shuttered. The US has lost almost 1 million barrels A DAY of oil refining capacity in the last 2 years.

The first year of this, oil consumption was still low, so the economic momentum was shifted to other areas, and with services mostly sidelined goods and materials say huge gains, we are still above trending for consumption of goods in the US over the last 2 years.




So are we seeing inflation because of enhanced unemployment? Yes, that drove economic activity. Now unemployment is low and there are no enhanced federal benefits.

Are we seeing inflation because of BBB? Yes, this is taking labor and materials.

Are we seeing inflation because oil production and refining is lower than it was in 2019? Yes, this is an outcome of not giving these industries "unemployment".

Inelastic vs elastic is an economics term for necessary vs discretionary. Inelastic industries are basically ones necessary for society to function. These industries are generally heavily regulated and subsidized. More "welfare" for oil refineries 2 years ago would have had great benefit today.

But really I jumped back into this thread for someone to explain to me how this person was determined to be a "mule" delivering multiple ballots to multiple drop boxes from this cell phone map.
So as best I can find, economic activity is money changing hands.
Economic growth is an increase in production and services.
Forgot to add, if the money is worth less, you can have more economic activity and
still have zero economic growth?
OF course we had a lot of increase in demand for product the last few years, nobody could
go on vacation they had been saving for. (One example) So they spent money on recreation and things.
I think the real problem is that the dems are very intrenched in academia. They create verbage
to fit a narrative. (To be fair, I think you've not been disingenuous here) Then, they use those terms
that mean entirely something else to the common person to imply that you are uneducated about
things because you are not familiar with their terms.
Ie: Let's say I'm talking to an engineer like you, I make a bracket on my bike for something and you
look at it and say, No Bueno, that'll go plastic in no time. A common person thinks WTF it'll turn into
some toy from the bottom of the Cracker Jack box? Why not, when talking to a common person
just say, that'll break in no time.
But, here's the big but, if they talk in language the way most people use it, they can't bamboozle
as easy.

What kind of engineer are you?
TM
1
1
early
Posts
9859
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
6/23/2022 9:20am
tuggy450 wrote:
No sure why they show tracking data for the devices that did not meet there own criteria. None of the devices they show or track on...
No sure why they show tracking data for the devices that did not meet there own criteria. None of the devices they show or track on the maps, were included because they were considered to not have enough visits to drop boxes. Perhaps they were trying to show it's really not 107 people visiting drop boxes over 2800 times dropping off multiple ballots.

Good point though, I think he is trolling, waiting for someone to call that out, so he can say, yeah, we're not even including those people.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they have they suspect on tape dropping off multiple ballots. Time stamped video. and is also not a resident of the state, dropping off ballots in the middle of the night. Perhaps e-mail Dinesh and ask him.

SO, that was an example of someone they actually did not list, who they infer is likely suspect. but did not meet their criteria. for inclusion. Certainly doesn't look like any of the cell phone maps they provided are over 14 box visits. So they got a pass.


They were not included in the 107 devices, people listed as Mules that visited the boxes a total of 2824 times as far as I can tell. they list the devices and visits in the following

https://www.truethevote.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/FILE_5193_no-met…
Your excuses would be funny if they weren't so sad.

They said the maps are of included devices.

4 million minutes of video and not 1 repeat dropper?

Dinesh is a pissed at Fox News for not supporting his little movie. FOX is already in hot water legally with Dominion. They know his movie is bullshit.
4
4
early
Posts
9859
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
6/23/2022 9:42am
ToolMaker wrote:
So as best I can find, economic activity is money changing hands. Economic growth is an increase in production and services. Forgot to add, if the...
So as best I can find, economic activity is money changing hands.
Economic growth is an increase in production and services.
Forgot to add, if the money is worth less, you can have more economic activity and
still have zero economic growth?
OF course we had a lot of increase in demand for product the last few years, nobody could
go on vacation they had been saving for. (One example) So they spent money on recreation and things.
I think the real problem is that the dems are very intrenched in academia. They create verbage
to fit a narrative. (To be fair, I think you've not been disingenuous here) Then, they use those terms
that mean entirely something else to the common person to imply that you are uneducated about
things because you are not familiar with their terms.
Ie: Let's say I'm talking to an engineer like you, I make a bracket on my bike for something and you
look at it and say, No Bueno, that'll go plastic in no time. A common person thinks WTF it'll turn into
some toy from the bottom of the Cracker Jack box? Why not, when talking to a common person
just say, that'll break in no time.
But, here's the big but, if they talk in language the way most people use it, they can't bamboozle
as easy.

What kind of engineer are you?
TM
Hard agree on the Dems and their nomenclature/academia problem.

Of course when you get into specialized fields there's always more specialized vocabulary to distinguish small differences, like plastic and nonplastic deformation, plastic doesn't return to its original form after being bent (deformation). Theres all kinds of historical reasons for terms and stuff.

I'm an ME, I went to college, college teaches you alot despite all the hype around how schools are only full of liberal shit. Go into engineering or science and you'll be surrounded by high functioning, motivated, good people.
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1
philG
Posts
10946
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
6/23/2022 1:20pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Good think that you deleted the post that you made before this, it would make you look even sillier than you already do..... But now you...
Good think that you deleted the post that you made before this, it would make you look even sillier than you already do.....

But now you look cowardly and ignorant as well as silly.
I havent deleted anything.

And for shits and giggles , here is a picture of the same place being 'insurrected' yesterday.




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