GP vs MX...I gotta say it

Titan1
Posts
9406
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
6/14/2022 8:34am
OT wrote:
We'll never know until a top tier US rider grows a pair and decides to tackle GP's.
Titan1 wrote:
How many current ama riders have won a GP (MXGP/MX2)?
How many current GP riders have won an ama national (450/250)?
OT wrote:
GP Riders that have gone to US and won:
Dylan Ferrandis
Hunter Lawrence
Ken Roczen

US Riders that have won GP:
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's?

Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi retired?), Who else?

How many current GP riders have won AMA nationals? Herlings...

With so many AMA riders who have actually won GP's...how can anyone argue that the AMA series isn't as least as fast as the GP's?
2
2
OT
Posts
548
Joined
11/17/2016
Location
SE GB
6/14/2022 8:36am
Titan1 wrote:
How many current ama riders have won a GP (MXGP/MX2)?
How many current GP riders have won an ama national (450/250)?
OT wrote:
GP Riders that have gone to US and won:
Dylan Ferrandis
Hunter Lawrence
Ken Roczen

US Riders that have won GP:
Titan1 wrote:
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's? Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi...
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's?

Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi retired?), Who else?

How many current GP riders have won AMA nationals? Herlings...

With so many AMA riders who have actually won GP's...how can anyone argue that the AMA series isn't as least as fast as the GP's?
Don’t disagree… I’ve not mentioned who’s faster, both are probably equal on their day
Press516
Posts
5552
Joined
9/11/2018
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
Fantasy
6/14/2022 8:43am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2022 11:19am
OT wrote:
GP Riders that have gone to US and won:
Dylan Ferrandis
Hunter Lawrence
Ken Roczen

US Riders that have won GP:
mxb2 wrote:
Webb,tomac.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I guess you didn't get the memo . USGPs don't count .... only GPs on Euro soil matter .
You sure get that vibe reading some of these posts...

I guess 2016 Glen Helen GP is hard on the narrative. But it's certainly a fun race to watch.
2
6/14/2022 8:44am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2022 8:44am
Titan1 wrote:
How many current ama riders have won a GP (MXGP/MX2)?
How many current GP riders have won an ama national (450/250)?
OT wrote:
GP Riders that have gone to US and won:
Dylan Ferrandis
Hunter Lawrence
Ken Roczen

US Riders that have won GP:
Titan1 wrote:
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's? Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi...
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's?

Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi retired?), Who else?

How many current GP riders have won AMA nationals? Herlings...

With so many AMA riders who have actually won GP's...how can anyone argue that the AMA series isn't as least as fast as the GP's?
RJ Hampshire won an MX2.
3

The Shop

mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
6/14/2022 9:16am
OT wrote:
GP Riders that have gone to US and won:
Dylan Ferrandis
Hunter Lawrence
Ken Roczen

US Riders that have won GP:
mxb2 wrote:
Webb,tomac.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I guess you didn't get the memo . USGPs don't count .... only GPs on Euro soil matter .
Nope, they count. The mxgp contenders were there.
1
agn5008
Posts
1886
Joined
3/8/2021
Location
PA, PA US
Fantasy
6/14/2022 9:23am
Titan1 wrote:
How many current ama riders have won a GP (MXGP/MX2)?
How many current GP riders have won an ama national (450/250)?
OT wrote:
GP Riders that have gone to US and won:
Dylan Ferrandis
Hunter Lawrence
Ken Roczen

US Riders that have won GP:
Titan1 wrote:
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's? Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi...
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's?

Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi retired?), Who else?

How many current GP riders have won AMA nationals? Herlings...

With so many AMA riders who have actually won GP's...how can anyone argue that the AMA series isn't as least as fast as the GP's?
Not sure if we should consider Osborne a MXGP rider or AMA rider but he won one in the MX2
Bonanza69
Posts
1019
Joined
4/4/2016
Location
LU
6/14/2022 9:51am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2022 10:14am
Titan1 wrote:
It’s amazing watching the GP cheerleaders slam AC and diminish his results last year. They’d rather dog one of the greatest riders in history rather than...
It’s amazing watching the GP cheerleaders slam AC and diminish his results last year. They’d rather dog one of the greatest riders in history rather than just admit the AMA riders are just as fast as the GP riders. Lol.
The GP cheerleaders thought Cairoli would be on the podium or winning races in the US,wishful thinking at its best!Lol
Try harder next time!Cool
5
NVA57
Posts
912
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
Kralendijk BQ
6/14/2022 10:46am
Titan1 wrote:
How many current ama riders have won a GP (MXGP/MX2)?
How many current GP riders have won an ama national (450/250)?
OT wrote:
GP Riders that have gone to US and won:
Dylan Ferrandis
Hunter Lawrence
Ken Roczen

US Riders that have won GP:
Titan1 wrote:
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's? Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi...
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's?

Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi retired?), Who else?

How many current GP riders have won AMA nationals? Herlings...

With so many AMA riders who have actually won GP's...how can anyone argue that the AMA series isn't as least as fast as the GP's?
Remove Lawrence and Forkner from your list and add Hampshire and Anstie.
Piston Slap
Posts
1971
Joined
7/2/2013
Location
Stillwater, OK US
6/14/2022 10:51am
The MXGP TV package is pretty good... better than ours today.

I was showing wife the tracks on YouTube replay highlights, she says they are better than ours...... I used to say no way. I can't disagree anymore.

Plus you have these international rivalries..and a pretty close field..... makes for great racing...imo

These days, I really like the mxgp series.....
2
robkinuk
Posts
4266
Joined
5/16/2007
Location
Ashbourne GB
6/14/2022 10:56am
Not much to choose between the top riders in both series but the depth of talent seems stronger in GP’s .
Past the top ten , a lot of unknown riders scoring points at US Nationals.
5
1
jemcee
Posts
12602
Joined
8/11/2008
Location
AU
6/14/2022 4:18pm
Titan1 wrote:
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's? Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi...
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's?

Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi retired?), Who else?

How many current GP riders have won AMA nationals? Herlings...

With so many AMA riders who have actually won GP's...how can anyone argue that the AMA series isn't as least as fast as the GP's?
As much as I think this whole argument is silly and enjoy 8 motos a week and not once think "Yeah this is great but I wonder if the other side is faster than these guys"
Buuuut
Your point has a few holes, 4 of your 7 AMA examples of winning GPs are also GP riders that have won nationals..

Unless your saying they are now AMA riders but I can only think that maybe 1 of those 4 have won a GP as AMA riders!
Musquin at Glen Helen? Kenny in Germany?

Besides it's been a lot easier for AMA riders to compete in a GP as they've come to them, if an AMA national had gone to Europe you point might mean something..

But yes the top 4 or 5 of the AMA's would be as fast as the GPs
1
1
Titan1
Posts
9406
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
6/14/2022 7:02pm
Titan1 wrote:
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's? Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi...
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's?

Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi retired?), Who else?

How many current GP riders have won AMA nationals? Herlings...

With so many AMA riders who have actually won GP's...how can anyone argue that the AMA series isn't as least as fast as the GP's?
jemcee wrote:
As much as I think this whole argument is silly and enjoy 8 motos a week and not once think "Yeah this is great but I...
As much as I think this whole argument is silly and enjoy 8 motos a week and not once think "Yeah this is great but I wonder if the other side is faster than these guys"
Buuuut
Your point has a few holes, 4 of your 7 AMA examples of winning GPs are also GP riders that have won nationals..

Unless your saying they are now AMA riders but I can only think that maybe 1 of those 4 have won a GP as AMA riders!
Musquin at Glen Helen? Kenny in Germany?

Besides it's been a lot easier for AMA riders to compete in a GP as they've come to them, if an AMA national had gone to Europe you point might mean something..

But yes the top 4 or 5 of the AMA's would be as fast as the GPs
The question is about current ama vs current GP. So those GP riders that have won ama are adding to the ama’s depth, thereby making it silly to assume the ama nationals are slower than the GP’s.

And Tomac, Webb, have won GP’s and Ama nationals.
3
6/17/2022 12:29pm
I say hes doing just fine racing thease guys on tracks they know in and out.
Member that time Villopoto went overseas? Both dudes are animals, its just that them other dudes aint half bad either, and they have home turf.
2
6/18/2022 4:18am
It really depends who the top riders are at the time. Also I’d say the AMA field is much deeper than the gps, especially in recent years.

If the gate was filled with half top GP riders and half top ama riders, my money would be on the yanks for an overall win, but who would be on the podium is another discussion.
1
6/19/2022 1:47am
I wish it would all change-

a six round European championship, run at the same time as a six round US championship, then the top 20 from each championship come together to race a six round WORLD championship- 3 rounds in Europe, 3 rounds in US.

One true world champion is crowned.

Will never happen, but I can dream.
1
1
6/19/2022 2:21am
There's slight variance every year but at heart it really comes down to the tracks and format.

Dylan Walsh also raced Hangtown and you can hear him once again emphasise this point especially.

Judging top GP speed on AC currently, in an unfamiliar environment, is foolish. And it's almost just as foolish to assume the GP riders are/were wholly superior due to European MXDN team wins over the past 10 yrs...

One minute the America riders are subpar and will probably never win an MXDN again etc. Before that it was the GP riders being labelled subpar ("Everts is a big fish in a small pond" - MXA). Now Tony hasn't won or even podiumed in his post retirement vacation stint; suddenly the GP riders once again aren't as good anymore.

This is what happens when you jump from one extreme to next and insist on setting in stone something that's ever changing from rider to rider, track to track, year to year.

This year alone? My money would be on AMA. Imo it's certainly the most exciting to watch at the moment.
1
mxxxeR1
Posts
480
Joined
4/25/2022
Location
NL
6/19/2022 4:11am
I think the ama motorcross is awesome to see...i thinkgo back to 30 riders the last 10 ridersreally don't have the speed...
1
Mit12
Posts
2173
Joined
6/23/2014
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ US
6/19/2022 11:21pm
I believe that what we are seeing is AC racing a series that Tomac, Sexton, Anderson, Dungey, Barcia etc are racing for a championship. All we have been able to compare AC, Herlings, Giaser and Febvre to is the MXoN which is a bragging rights race that can jeopardize their their SX season. The top 5 in each series MXGP and the AMA Nationals are incredibly close in talent and speed. I give the MXGP riders credit for racing the MXoN with the same intensity as they race their championship. Anyone that watches Tomac race a national or a SX can clearly see the difference in the intensity of his riding during the MXoN.
2
roninho
Posts
1621
Joined
7/14/2015
Location
IT
6/20/2022 2:41am
Titan1 wrote:
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's? Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi...
This is about current AMA Riders vs current GP riders...how many current AMA Riders have won GP's?

Ferrandis, Lawrence, Roczen, Tomac, Webb, Forkner(?), Musquin (sort of...semi retired?), Who else?

How many current GP riders have won AMA nationals? Herlings...

With so many AMA riders who have actually won GP's...how can anyone argue that the AMA series isn't as least as fast as the GP's?
To be honest i'm not sure that says that much, because for many it has been quite a while when they got those results.

For Ferrandis & Lawrence (who didnt win a gp btw) i would say they have become quite a bit better since their last GP's.

Others one could say they are not at their toplevel anymore. Musquin, but also someone like Forkner, when was the last time he had a podium outdoors, 3 years ago? Not sure

1
VanDan
Posts
530
Joined
6/7/2020
Location
BE
6/20/2022 4:13am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2022 4:22am
Mit12 wrote:
I believe that what we are seeing is AC racing a series that Tomac, Sexton, Anderson, Dungey, Barcia etc are racing for a championship. All we...
I believe that what we are seeing is AC racing a series that Tomac, Sexton, Anderson, Dungey, Barcia etc are racing for a championship. All we have been able to compare AC, Herlings, Giaser and Febvre to is the MXoN which is a bragging rights race that can jeopardize their their SX season. The top 5 in each series MXGP and the AMA Nationals are incredibly close in talent and speed. I give the MXGP riders credit for racing the MXoN with the same intensity as they race their championship. Anyone that watches Tomac race a national or a SX can clearly see the difference in the intensity of his riding during the MXoN.
So what you are saying, the only comparison is when a GP rider races a National. If it isn't "SX focus"/MXGP should be better in MX, it is now GP riders try at MXdN and American riders don't? This is silly. You are comedian.

What we are seeing is a 36 (nearly 37) year old semi-retired rider compete at the highest level lacking in preparation, both in terms of comfort, intensity and as a consequence lacking pace. We have seen GP riders come to Pro Motocross and perform fine, Herlings 1st, Desalle 2nd battling Dungey a little, Shaun Simpson 4th, De Dycker and Strijbos top ten for example, etc. The difference is, they were more active racers at the time.

Respect is hard to come by from some chest beating Americans. It was similar with the Beterbiev fight this weekend, USA USA USA and boo's to start, it was almost comedy at how quickly Jones got beat up and how Beterbiev shut the crowd up! At least in that sport there is crossover and it isn't laced with excuses!

... and anyone that watches MXoN has seen plenty of Tomac intensity. Clearly you have not! Sure he got destroyed at Red Bud, but in Kegums and Teutchenthal he had his moments of wow. I was there live both time. In Latvia, his first moto he didn't really do anything. In second moto, the switch was flipped, he had a bad start and was charging through - he was two seconds a lap faster than most! If he had a couple more laps, I think he win. At Teutchenthal, he was catching Cairoli before scrubbing too hard and crashing Chad Reed esque through the air. In moto 2, he was battling with Roczen on hometurf and they put 50+ seconds on any 450 whilst riding 250, including the likes of Desalle (who at that moment very strong rider).
3
VanDan
Posts
530
Joined
6/7/2020
Location
BE
6/20/2022 4:17am
mxxxeR1 wrote:
I think the ama motorcross is awesome to see...i thinkgo back to 30 riders the last 10 ridersreally don't have the speed...
I agree. Everyone will complain at next GP about local Indonesian riders are danger because they are 20 seconds a lap slower than leaders but it is similar with some riders between 30-40th in AMA National.
1
3
6/20/2022 2:09pm
I am not here to get into the USA Nationals vs MXGP speed debate.

I have been watching the GP's for awhile now, and as of late, this is what grinds my gears...

I have noticed the GP starting grid has been woefully thin as of late. Whats goin on? Since the GP's are a world wide series, your telling me the whole world cannot cough up a full gate of forty riders? As of late, the gate has had around 25 riders, sometimes as low as 20. How embarrassing...

I was at the High Point nat and I seen a full gate for the LCQ's!

What is going on across the pond?
Not enough talent?
Poor economy?
Poor administration?
No interest anymore?

Seriously, someone in the know clue me in!
mxxxeR1
Posts
480
Joined
4/25/2022
Location
NL
6/20/2022 2:26pm
Talent is there if you would let the emx250 and the wk mx2 let ride together......then you have a full starting gate ...with good riders.........
mxxxeR1
Posts
480
Joined
4/25/2022
Location
NL
6/20/2022 2:43pm
And the people who organzi the gps..... they don't care about motorcros just money....and most of the media are afraid of them... it's so e kind of mafia.....so hardly anyone writes a critcal article about them...just look at the gp in Indonesia.... 10 rixers in the mx2 and eg mxlarge has already written 5 articles how great that gp is😁😁😁😁😁😁😎
brimx153
Posts
3344
Joined
5/3/2012
Location
IE
6/20/2022 2:46pm
Bingslayer wrote:
It really depends who the top riders are at the time. Also I’d say the AMA field is much deeper than the gps, especially in recent...
It really depends who the top riders are at the time. Also I’d say the AMA field is much deeper than the gps, especially in recent years.

If the gate was filled with half top GP riders and half top ama riders, my money would be on the yanks for an overall win, but who would be on the podium is another discussion.
10 -20 in GPS guys would distroy the AMA 10 - 20 guys . The two top 10 s are fairly equal
3
VanDan
Posts
530
Joined
6/7/2020
Location
BE
6/20/2022 5:30pm Edited Date/Time 6/20/2022 6:07pm
Whymee wrote:
I am not here to get into the USA Nationals vs MXGP speed debate. I have been watching the GP's for awhile now, and as of...
I am not here to get into the USA Nationals vs MXGP speed debate.

I have been watching the GP's for awhile now, and as of late, this is what grinds my gears...

I have noticed the GP starting grid has been woefully thin as of late. Whats goin on? Since the GP's are a world wide series, your telling me the whole world cannot cough up a full gate of forty riders? As of late, the gate has had around 25 riders, sometimes as low as 20. How embarrassing...

I was at the High Point nat and I seen a full gate for the LCQ's!

What is going on across the pond?
Not enough talent?
Poor economy?
Poor administration?
No interest anymore?

Seriously, someone in the know clue me in!
It is $10,000+ to sign up for full season, or $1000 per race. There is no prize money and there is significant travel cost. It is difficult to absorb this as a privateer and often you need to bring sponsorship dollars to join a satellite or sometimes be 2nd rider on factory team. The top riders generally do very well with salary and bonus, but it is a struggle for many other.

We are at a point where it is (or maybe has) become elitist. Personally I don't want to see 40 rider gates in MXGP (like at High Point) if there are rider who are 20 seconds a lap slower. But what I would like to see is normal entry fees and prize money again in MXGP, because there are riders who race in domestic championships across Europe who are still very capable, many former GP riders, who are still competitive and would race if it was not so cost prohibitive and they could make some money!

Despite this, I feel like the motocross in Europe is down trending slowly for some time. It has become more expensive, less tracks, tracks close due to noise or other environmental factor, further to travel, higher track fees, bike costs, less money in pocket, other interests. At a pro level, there is less riders entering National championships and without businessmen (think of rich European Mike Genova's), MXGP could be in choppy water.

Nevertheless, things could be better in MXGP than they are in my opinion...
plowboy
Posts
14053
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS US
6/20/2022 6:00pm
Whymee wrote:
I am not here to get into the USA Nationals vs MXGP speed debate. I have been watching the GP's for awhile now, and as of...
I am not here to get into the USA Nationals vs MXGP speed debate.

I have been watching the GP's for awhile now, and as of late, this is what grinds my gears...

I have noticed the GP starting grid has been woefully thin as of late. Whats goin on? Since the GP's are a world wide series, your telling me the whole world cannot cough up a full gate of forty riders? As of late, the gate has had around 25 riders, sometimes as low as 20. How embarrassing...

I was at the High Point nat and I seen a full gate for the LCQ's!

What is going on across the pond?
Not enough talent?
Poor economy?
Poor administration?
No interest anymore?

Seriously, someone in the know clue me in!
VanDan wrote:
It is $10,000+ to sign up for full season, or $1000 per race. There is no prize money and there is significant travel cost. It is...
It is $10,000+ to sign up for full season, or $1000 per race. There is no prize money and there is significant travel cost. It is difficult to absorb this as a privateer and often you need to bring sponsorship dollars to join a satellite or sometimes be 2nd rider on factory team. The top riders generally do very well with salary and bonus, but it is a struggle for many other.

We are at a point where it is (or maybe has) become elitist. Personally I don't want to see 40 rider gates in MXGP (like at High Point) if there are rider who are 20 seconds a lap slower. But what I would like to see is normal entry fees and prize money again in MXGP, because there are riders who race in domestic championships across Europe who are still very capable, many former GP riders, who are still competitive and would race if it was not so cost prohibitive and they could make some money!

Despite this, I feel like the motocross in Europe is down trending slowly for some time. It has become more expensive, less tracks, tracks close due to noise or other environmental factor, further to travel, higher track fees, bike costs, less money in pocket, other interests. At a pro level, there is less riders entering National championships and without businessmen (think of rich European Mike Genova's), MXGP could be in choppy water.

Nevertheless, things could be better in MXGP than they are in my opinion...
That's probably the biggest difference between US & THEM. GP's are pay to play. While our nats aren't free to enter...the cost isn't really a factor. A few sponsors for gas and parts...and any local hotshoe can throw his hat in the ring. I honestly don't know how anyone could privateer the GP's.

Even in the states...there's no factory bonus for a privateer finishing position. AMA pays what it pays. For some, that's enough to get to the next race...for others...it's milking the credit card. If you ain't a top dog...life is hard for the MX pro...GP or Nat.

Post a reply to: GP vs MX...I gotta say it

The Latest