Show us a Pro rider’s contract.

Pooski
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Pooski 5/2/2022 1:26pm
5/2/2022 1:26pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 1:27pm
Kyle978 wrote:
I typed out a big long response to this explaining my situation more and right before hitting submit I decided to summarize:

Suck it.
Kyle,

I’m sorry this situation has frustrated you like you said these things tend to do when on you get on this website. Maybe don’t be so insecure? Please don’t get it twisted. One of your buddies is going to send you an exclusive flat bill hat that no one else really has for being the voice of the industry on Vital and being on the frontline on their behalf. Thank you for your insight.
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Kyle978
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Kyle978 5/2/2022 1:28pm
5/2/2022 1:28pm
Pooski wrote:
Kyle, I’m sorry this situation has frustrated you like you said these things tend to do when on you get on this website. Maybe don’t be...
Kyle,

I’m sorry this situation has frustrated you like you said these things tend to do when on you get on this website. Maybe don’t be so insecure? Please don’t get it twisted. One of your buddies is going to send you an exclusive flat bill hat that no one else really has for being the voice of the industry on Vital and being on the frontline on their behalf. Thank you for your insight.
Yeah, everyone in MX/SX gets paid in flat billed hats...
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 5/2/2022 1:32pm
5/2/2022 1:32pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 1:35pm
Spat24 wrote:
I think it would be interesting to see the contracts items. Not looking for the pay they receive but how they earn. Are they designated independent...
I think it would be interesting to see the contracts items. Not looking for the pay they receive but how they earn.

Are they designated independent contractors?
Salary - do they get it per race or is it over the entire year (monthly or every other week)
Bonus money - only first - third or different for mid tear - like top 10,,,,,
Do they receive paid health insurance or is the rider responsible for this?
If they are hurt and cannot race - are they still paid by the team or insurance?

What differences are there between top tier riders contracts vs mid tier (so a Webb vs Brayton vs Amart vs ARay.

Again - not their pay - just what is listed in the contract.


I think it would be very interesting and maybe even surprising as what is in some contracts.

The answer to almost all of your questions is, "it depends and it's negotiable". Yes, the riders are independent contractors. Most have an LLC or other entity and operate as their own individual profit (or loss) center. Riders that are in high demand obviously have more negotiating power and will not sign a contract that doesn't pay them if they are injured. The contracts of that type that I have seen are paid out monthly, I'm sure there are others with a different pay schedule. Guys that are desperate for a ride will sign anything, including a contract with a provision that they are paid per race and if they cannot race they do not get paid. Bonus money is negotiable. Some will have a higher base pay and smaller bonus package. Some are confident enough to forfeit base pay for larger win/podium/championship bonuses. I have seen contracts that required the rider to be covered by health insurance but it wasn't paid for by the team. Arguably providing health insurance benefits could jeopardize the rider's standing as an independent contractor vs. employee.

Some "teams" don't even have written contracts.

I'm telling you, the contract stuff is boring. The only fun part is the pay.

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LungButter
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LungButter 5/2/2022 1:33pm
5/2/2022 1:33pm
Kyle978 wrote:
I came on here and said "It doesn't make sense for someone to post that. It's a small industry and the players hold this information very...
I came on here and said "It doesn't make sense for someone to post that. It's a small industry and the players hold this information very tightly. It would be quickly detected who posted that info and the backlash/distrust wouldn't be worth the gain you got from providing the info."

My reply wasn't "I have this info, you don't. HAHA!"

I don't set the rules, I didn't justify whether that was right or wrong, just stating the facts and that someone with that info isn't going to risk their career. This is not mainstream sports - the consequences of spreading gossip and information is very high.

Go back and read how this thread developed. If y'all weren't so insecure and could ask for more info without taking it the wrong way, I bet you'd get farther or at least better understand why you don't have specific information.

Oh.

Seems to me like the industry insiders are the ones who are insecure. They are the gatekeepers that want to keep absolutely everything secret. I guess that is what you get when 90% of them are washed up or retired riders who were homeschooled and have very little education or real life experience outside of the motocross world.


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Kyle978
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Kyle978 5/2/2022 1:36pm
5/2/2022 1:36pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 1:40pm
LungButter wrote:
Oh. Seems to me like the industry insiders are the ones who are insecure. They are the gatekeepers that want to keep absolutely everything secret. I...
Oh.

Seems to me like the industry insiders are the ones who are insecure. They are the gatekeepers that want to keep absolutely everything secret. I guess that is what you get when 90% of them are washed up or retired riders who were homeschooled and have very little education or real life experience outside of the motocross world.


Okay - do you feel any better now that you've come to this realization? Or still going to get upset about things you or I can't control?

What's funny is I don't disagree with you. I've been in and out of the moto industry since I was a teenager, the small-minded thinking fucking kills me.
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LungButter
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LungButter 5/2/2022 1:44pm
5/2/2022 1:44pm
Kyle978 wrote:
Okay - do you feel any better now that you've come to this realization? Or still going to get upset about things you or I can't...
Okay - do you feel any better now that you've come to this realization? Or still going to get upset about things you or I can't control?

What's funny is I don't disagree with you. I've been in and out of the moto industry since I was a teenager, the small-minded thinking fucking kills me.
Was I upset?
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Pooski
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Pooski 5/2/2022 1:45pm
5/2/2022 1:45pm
Kyle978 wrote:
Yeah, everyone in MX/SX gets paid in flat billed hats...
No, I never said they get paid in flat bills. I’m implying you’ll be rewarded an exclusive hat for nut-hugging the tightest. You do however come off as someone who would accept hats as payment just to have the opportunity to stand underneath the tent and be seen near them. I’ve got time today, Kyle.
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Kyle978
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Kyle978 5/2/2022 1:52pm
5/2/2022 1:52pm
Pooski wrote:
No, I never said they get paid in flat bills. I’m implying you’ll be rewarded an exclusive hat for nut-hugging the tightest. You do however come...
No, I never said they get paid in flat bills. I’m implying you’ll be rewarded an exclusive hat for nut-hugging the tightest. You do however come off as someone who would accept hats as payment just to have the opportunity to stand underneath the tent and be seen near them. I’ve got time today, Kyle.
This is precisely why no one gives you idiots the time of day.
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UpTiTe 5/2/2022 2:03pm
5/2/2022 2:03pm
Spat24 wrote:
I think it would be interesting to see the contracts items. Not looking for the pay they receive but how they earn. Are they designated independent...
I think it would be interesting to see the contracts items. Not looking for the pay they receive but how they earn.

Are they designated independent contractors?
Salary - do they get it per race or is it over the entire year (monthly or every other week)
Bonus money - only first - third or different for mid tear - like top 10,,,,,
Do they receive paid health insurance or is the rider responsible for this?
If they are hurt and cannot race - are they still paid by the team or insurance?

What differences are there between top tier riders contracts vs mid tier (so a Webb vs Brayton vs Amart vs ARay.

Again - not their pay - just what is listed in the contract.


I think it would be very interesting and maybe even surprising as what is in some contracts.

Are they designated independent contractors? Most yes. MCRs riders and mechanics are employees, are paid normally and even get benefits.

Salary - do they get it per race or is it over the entire year (monthly or every other week) Most get monthly pay checks, some get biweekly. Most teams pay onus money the following Tuesday.

Bonus money - only first - third or different for mid tear - like top 10,,,,, Most top riders are payed for heat wins and podiums only. Mid level guys usually get heat win money and top ten. MCR has bonuses for heat wins, making the main and for each place in the main. They have a holeshot too.

Do they receive paid health insurance or is the rider responsible for this? Riders responsibility. MCR pays for it

If they are hurt and cannot race - are they still paid by the team or insurance? If they have insurance, it will pay them, if not they are out of luck. Top riders will make sure they get paid even when hurt.

What differences are there between top tier riders contracts vs mid tier (so a Webb vs Brayton vs Amart vs ARay. The amount of pages and responsibilities in the contract. A Ray could get arrested in a strip club smoking pot and keep his job while Cooper Webb would get fired.

Again - not their pay - just what is listed in the contract.
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Pooski
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Pooski 5/2/2022 2:32pm
5/2/2022 2:32pm
Pooski wrote:
No, I never said they get paid in flat bills. I’m implying you’ll be rewarded an exclusive hat for nut-hugging the tightest. You do however come...
No, I never said they get paid in flat bills. I’m implying you’ll be rewarded an exclusive hat for nut-hugging the tightest. You do however come off as someone who would accept hats as payment just to have the opportunity to stand underneath the tent and be seen near them. I’ve got time today, Kyle.
Kyle978 wrote:
This is precisely why no one gives you idiots the time of day.
I’m not looking for their time… We ain’t the same playboy.
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Magoofan
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Magoofan 5/2/2022 2:59pm
5/2/2022 2:59pm
OP....there is one sure fire way to see a pro's contract.

Earn one. Woohoo

While i would find it interesting to read one.... I appreciate what some of the "insiders" have shared in this thread.

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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 5/2/2022 3:07pm
5/2/2022 3:07pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 3:09pm
OP, why don’t you post up your employment agreement? Block out the names and dollars

You won’t
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Mr. Info
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Mr. Info 5/2/2022 3:38pm
5/2/2022 3:38pm
Ask you doctor what he makes a year and see how that goes and your insurance or wallet is paying his salary.
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sbarrington314 5/2/2022 3:49pm
5/2/2022 3:49pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
OP, why don’t you post up your employment agreement? Block out the names and dollars

You won’t
I would. But who would care?
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Langhammx 5/2/2022 3:50pm
5/2/2022 3:50pm
Mr. Info wrote:
Ask you doctor what he makes a year and see how that goes and your insurance or wallet is paying his salary.
I don’t agree with your posts much, but I’ll give you a thumbs up on this one !
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cwel11
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cwel11 5/2/2022 4:11pm
5/2/2022 4:11pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 4:47pm
cwel11 wrote:
Why?
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Why do we wonder about or discuss anything?

Why does this forum exist?
I’m all for discussion but feel we have no right to see shit. Kinda came off like the industry owes it to us?
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RalphS
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RalphS 5/2/2022 4:18pm
5/2/2022 4:18pm
MOTOXSTATION wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547454/s1200_1E65CDBF_4444_4903_9EF4_EE9BCA0CAD61.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547453/s1200_1D784AA9_EA30_4770_9B6E_276C49EA0F2F.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547458/s1200_8A0F1504_8E7E_4865_9137_0DAFE8B7B634.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547457/s1200_6DE29E01_28E7_4AAA_B7BF_C64EDD818F49.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547455/s1200_ABE4B92C_9FBE_43CF_B9CE_376E3CC81D74.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547456/s1200_8F24A000_C823_4303_86DB_397D67D18D3D.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547459/s1200_FF06DE20_357E_4EF5_91CC_79A9011820CB.jpg[/img]







Damn they leaked my contract
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7eleven
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7eleven 5/2/2022 4:43pm
5/2/2022 4:43pm
Payment terms: $300,000 in 10 monthly payments of $30,000. Where do I sign?
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seth419 5/2/2022 4:49pm
5/2/2022 4:49pm
MOTOXSTATION wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547454/s1200_1E65CDBF_4444_4903_9EF4_EE9BCA0CAD61.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547453/s1200_1D784AA9_EA30_4770_9B6E_276C49EA0F2F.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547458/s1200_8A0F1504_8E7E_4865_9137_0DAFE8B7B634.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547457/s1200_6DE29E01_28E7_4AAA_B7BF_C64EDD818F49.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547455/s1200_ABE4B92C_9FBE_43CF_B9CE_376E3CC81D74.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547456/s1200_8F24A000_C823_4303_86DB_397D67D18D3D.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/05/02/547459/s1200_FF06DE20_357E_4EF5_91CC_79A9011820CB.jpg[/img]







RalphS wrote:
Damn they leaked my contract
See!!! One blacked out contract gets posted and Ralph already knew it was his.
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DonM
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DonM 5/2/2022 4:49pm
5/2/2022 4:49pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
What I don’t understand is why it would matter? No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter? You...
What I don’t understand is why it would matter?

No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter?
You speak about it as though it’s a threat to national security.. its fucking motorcycle racing!
Langhammx wrote:
Take a deep breath and have a snickers, you've gotten yourself worked up over nothing.

It’s a tight knit industry, you obviously don’t understand this.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Pacify me- tell me why a rider or team would get upset about it. Bare in mind we won’t know WHO the rider is, WHAT BIKE...
Pacify me- tell me why a rider or team would get upset about it.

Bare in mind we won’t know WHO the rider is, WHAT BIKE they were riding or HOW MUCH they were getting paid. GO!
Why don't you post your paystub and black out your name....it's not just MX/SX the terms of almost all motorsports are this way...Kyle is right...what good does it serve? if a contract were posted all of you would just pick it apart like you're a bunch of armchair lawyers....it would be just like all the concussion experts we have here sitting on their couches...
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DonM
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DonM 5/2/2022 4:58pm
5/2/2022 4:58pm
Pooski wrote:
No, I never said they get paid in flat bills. I’m implying you’ll be rewarded an exclusive hat for nut-hugging the tightest. You do however come...
No, I never said they get paid in flat bills. I’m implying you’ll be rewarded an exclusive hat for nut-hugging the tightest. You do however come off as someone who would accept hats as payment just to have the opportunity to stand underneath the tent and be seen near them. I’ve got time today, Kyle.
Kyle978 wrote:
This is precisely why no one gives you idiots the time of day.
Spot on!! There once was a time when a lot was shared on here...but trolls like these guys ran most off...it's just not worth the argument...
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MXMattii
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MXMattii 5/2/2022 5:01pm
5/2/2022 5:01pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 5:05pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
What I don’t understand is why it would matter? No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter? You...
What I don’t understand is why it would matter?

No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter?
You speak about it as though it’s a threat to national security.. its fucking motorcycle racing!
JM485 wrote:
The answer is that it wouldn’t hurt anything, but it’s a lot more fun for the “in” crowd to feel important and that requires keeping information...
The answer is that it wouldn’t hurt anything, but it’s a lot more fun for the “in” crowd to feel important and that requires keeping information exclusive.
First of all, some of the things like: "Does Mitch pays his riders or Kawasaki USA" could become clear even with all names, numbers, ... being blacked out. We're also all very interested in options, but what if there is a option for riders to race overseas supercrosses (big pay checks) only when they are paying for the transport and their own mechanic. Then another team interested in that rider (if he still races) will give him a call and say: Overseas races are no problem for us, we ship one bike, loan another and mount parts on it and the mechanic is also on us. That creates a little problem, because if you want to do that, every contract needs to be shown and because then agents and agencies can look at all those weaknesses. Oh and it is indeed true that it will not last 3 minutes before we know about who's contract it will be.

I can you a story from a certain rider who raced on Honda (in Europe), he said to some people he was major injured because the bike went in falls neutral. Long story short, they stopped paying him, not even the minimum what was in the contract: Clause: If injured you will payed following minimum ***** monthly. Why? Because he terminated the contract himself by blaming the bike, telling the truth against others. They knew things only he could've know... Oh and because he signed a contract for 2 or 3 years he needed to return a part of his signing bonus. It isn't because you know more, that you will love this sport more...

PS: I don't think by the way that every professional factory rider has an (good) medical insurance. Wasn't Trey Canard who needed "GoFundMe" after he got jumped on? Don't know the exact details anymore, was it because he didn't got medical insurance or just not one that covered all hospitals. But clearly Honda didn't had his back, we fans did.
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JazzyJJ
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JazzyJJ 5/2/2022 5:02pm
5/2/2022 5:02pm
Langhammx wrote:
Take a deep breath and have a snickers, you've gotten yourself worked up over nothing.

It’s a tight knit industry, you obviously don’t understand this.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Pacify me- tell me why a rider or team would get upset about it. Bare in mind we won’t know WHO the rider is, WHAT BIKE...
Pacify me- tell me why a rider or team would get upset about it.

Bare in mind we won’t know WHO the rider is, WHAT BIKE they were riding or HOW MUCH they were getting paid. GO!
DonM wrote:
Why don't you post your paystub and black out your name....it's not just MX/SX the terms of almost all motorsports are this way...Kyle is right...what good...
Why don't you post your paystub and black out your name....it's not just MX/SX the terms of almost all motorsports are this way...Kyle is right...what good does it serve? if a contract were posted all of you would just pick it apart like you're a bunch of armchair lawyers....it would be just like all the concussion experts we have here sitting on their couches...
I won’t speak for everyone but I would find it interesting to know the smaller details. Are practice mechanics provided, who pays travel, who pays win bonuses, do they have to attend team training or not? Those types of things would be cool to know.
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kpiper
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kpiper 5/2/2022 5:04pm
5/2/2022 5:04pm
Kyle978 wrote:
This is precisely why no one gives you idiots the time of day.
You just did.
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Pooski
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Pooski 5/2/2022 5:20pm
5/2/2022 5:20pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 5:24pm
DonM wrote:
Spot on!! There once was a time when a lot was shared on here...but trolls like these guys ran most off...it's just not worth the argument...
Don M, are you brain dead? Please post a screen shot of any response I had with this guy where it shows whether I agreed or disagreed with him regarding if contracts should be posted. You can’t because I didn’t give my opinion on the situation. I gave my opinion on his attitude and how stupid he looked acting arrogant and condescending to people who were asking. I’ve been on here since December and fairly seldom post anything. Pin it on someone else. Also, all he did in my opinion was contradict himself and he knows it too because he even went back and edited/deleted responses he sent to me where he directly contradicts himself. Anything else?
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DonM
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DonM 5/2/2022 5:52pm
5/2/2022 5:52pm
DonM wrote:
Spot on!! There once was a time when a lot was shared on here...but trolls like these guys ran most off...it's just not worth the argument...
Pooski wrote:
Don M, are you brain dead? Please post a screen shot of any response I had with this guy where it shows whether I agreed or...
Don M, are you brain dead? Please post a screen shot of any response I had with this guy where it shows whether I agreed or disagreed with him regarding if contracts should be posted. You can’t because I didn’t give my opinion on the situation. I gave my opinion on his attitude and how stupid he looked acting arrogant and condescending to people who were asking. I’ve been on here since December and fairly seldom post anything. Pin it on someone else. Also, all he did in my opinion was contradict himself and he knows it too because he even went back and edited/deleted responses he sent to me where he directly contradicts himself. Anything else?
Responses like yours and many before you have over time caused less and less inside info being shared on here...all he said was that it is a small industry and by posting a contract would cause trouble for anyone who posted it...then everyone jumped on him...why would he share anything now? You all get pissed when somebody has some knowledge but won't share their source, or to prove it or whatever...
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 5/2/2022 5:54pm
5/2/2022 5:54pm
Kyle978 wrote:
LOL - what is the upside to this for the person providing the info?
Absolutely nothing.
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Pooski
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Pooski 5/2/2022 6:28pm
5/2/2022 6:28pm
DonM wrote:
Responses like yours and many before you have over time caused less and less inside info being shared on here...all he said was that it is...
Responses like yours and many before you have over time caused less and less inside info being shared on here...all he said was that it is a small industry and by posting a contract would cause trouble for anyone who posted it...then everyone jumped on him...why would he share anything now? You all get pissed when somebody has some knowledge but won't share their source, or to prove it or whatever...
When someone followed up with him and asked what it would hurt if all the information was blacked-out and SOMEONE (not Kyle) just posted little details regarding travel, insurance or things related to such - he acted like he was higher than anyone who challenged him and tried to make them look stupid for asking. Go read the thread if you are going to keep arguing. I don’t care what they make I also don’t see anything wrong for asking what other details are like either. My dad taught me finances are only discussed at home that you share with whomever you may choose. Kyle was being a condescending chicken dick and eventually resorted to trying to be a tough guy in some responses. Kyle appears to have hung around people who let being talked to like idiots slide far too often. Nothing wrong with being called out every once in a while.
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Langhammx 5/2/2022 6:33pm
5/2/2022 6:33pm
Pooski wrote:
When someone followed up with him and asked what it would hurt if all the information was blacked-out and SOMEONE (not Kyle) just posted little details...
When someone followed up with him and asked what it would hurt if all the information was blacked-out and SOMEONE (not Kyle) just posted little details regarding travel, insurance or things related to such - he acted like he was higher than anyone who challenged him and tried to make them look stupid for asking. Go read the thread if you are going to keep arguing. I don’t care what they make I also don’t see anything wrong for asking what other details are like either. My dad taught me finances are only discussed at home that you share with whomever you may choose. Kyle was being a condescending chicken dick and eventually resorted to trying to be a tough guy in some responses. Kyle appears to have hung around people who let being talked to like idiots slide far too often. Nothing wrong with being called out every once in a while.
I think you took it wrong. Sometimes texting/ posing on forums can be taken wrong. This is not the first discussion on here about this subject. There’s always someone who gets their feelings hurt, don’t be that guy.

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