Jett Lawrence and James Stewart comparison is VOID.

FARANG
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3/1/2022 10:44pm
I dunno. The way he made the mistake at Arlington, cross jumped and ended up taking out himself and Forker definitely had shades of Stewart about it.

He also has raw speed and a touch of arrogance.

Not as many wins obviously, but then MX has progressed and he's racing a much tougher field than Stew was.
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3/1/2022 10:52pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2022 11:01pm
FARANG wrote:
I dunno. The way he made the mistake at Arlington, cross jumped and ended up taking out himself and Forker definitely had shades of Stewart about...
I dunno. The way he made the mistake at Arlington, cross jumped and ended up taking out himself and Forker definitely had shades of Stewart about it.

He also has raw speed and a touch of arrogance.

Not as many wins obviously, but then MX has progressed and he's racing a much tougher field than Stew was.
Everybody will say that their guy was racing against a tougher field. James was racing a field of 250f's that included Chad Reed, Roncada and others on a 125 outdoors. That would be like Jett showing up on a CR125 and running the show. Don't get me wrong Jett is great. But James was the definition of a generational talent. And yes you can add RC to that. Those 2 Florida boys ran the shit for sure. This shouldn't even be debated.
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3/1/2022 10:56pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2022 11:03pm
Also let's not forget about Pastrana if he didn't have his ADD that made him go make millions doing freestyle and the X Games. Imo the 3 of them were the most talented riders ever.
3/1/2022 10:59pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2022 11:00pm
That's some talent in that RV. Who would've thought that would end up being 3 of the most influential riders of all time. Crazy
https://youtu.be/U8OU81oEKUk
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The Shop

3/1/2022 11:08pm
The way he was swapping in the whoops reminded me of RC/RV/JS rarely do you see that these days probably was in control just like the guys I mentioned were.
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FARANG
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3/1/2022 11:20pm
FARANG wrote:
I dunno. The way he made the mistake at Arlington, cross jumped and ended up taking out himself and Forker definitely had shades of Stewart about...
I dunno. The way he made the mistake at Arlington, cross jumped and ended up taking out himself and Forker definitely had shades of Stewart about it.

He also has raw speed and a touch of arrogance.

Not as many wins obviously, but then MX has progressed and he's racing a much tougher field than Stew was.
Everybody will say that their guy was racing against a tougher field. James was racing a field of 250f's that included Chad Reed, Roncada and others...
Everybody will say that their guy was racing against a tougher field. James was racing a field of 250f's that included Chad Reed, Roncada and others on a 125 outdoors. That would be like Jett showing up on a CR125 and running the show. Don't get me wrong Jett is great. But James was the definition of a generational talent. And yes you can add RC to that. Those 2 Florida boys ran the shit for sure. This shouldn't even be debated.
Yep, there were some great riders back then for sure, by the standards of 20 years ago. But you only have to look at one of those races from 2001, 2002 or whatever to see how much things have moved on.

The railing of corners now is way more intense. The scrubbing of jumps, whoop speed etc. of most riders in the field. Stewart was ahead of his time for sure but put 2001 Stew against the current field and he wouldn't be winning many. We've seen what happens when someone can match his speed for a few laps and it isn't normally pretty (panic, taking risks, making mistakes, followed by a cartwheel down the track).

The reason Jet isn't winning as many as Stew did is because all of his competition are now riding with techniques that none of Stew's competitors were.

Of course it's difficult to compare eras and a Stewart born in 2003 would be interesting to see against these current guys.
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mx313
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3/1/2022 11:32pm
I don't think I have ever herd people saying jett is as good as James..
I have herd ppl saying he could be the best since James.

In terms of age who were the youngest national champs.
James at 16
Pastrana at 16
Glover at 17
Carmichael at 17
Jett and RV both won at 18 and 1 month
That's some good company to be with.

For Jett the most impressive thing is all the recent 250 champs have been much older like ferrandis ac Osborne etc.

At the end of the day no 1 will compare to others from different eras so we shouldn't try and compare. Every rider is individual and there will never be another rider the same whether that's a js or rc or even a guy like brayton or Osborne. Everyone has there own story.
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3/1/2022 11:44pm
FARANG wrote:
Yep, there were some great riders back then for sure, by the standards of 20 years ago. But you only have to look at one of...
Yep, there were some great riders back then for sure, by the standards of 20 years ago. But you only have to look at one of those races from 2001, 2002 or whatever to see how much things have moved on.

The railing of corners now is way more intense. The scrubbing of jumps, whoop speed etc. of most riders in the field. Stewart was ahead of his time for sure but put 2001 Stew against the current field and he wouldn't be winning many. We've seen what happens when someone can match his speed for a few laps and it isn't normally pretty (panic, taking risks, making mistakes, followed by a cartwheel down the track).

The reason Jet isn't winning as many as Stew did is because all of his competition are now riding with techniques that none of Stew's competitors were.

Of course it's difficult to compare eras and a Stewart born in 2003 would be interesting to see against these current guys.
I guess what I'm going off is that the techniques that James mastered 20 years ago are still in play and James from 20 years ago still did it better than most guys these days. Also with Ricky? I haven't seen a rider with his heart, determination, and will to win like him since(2 perfect seasons on both a 250 2 stroke and a 450). Travis is Travis and knew that racing wasn't for him. He is now the most known rider in the world. Oh ya did I mention Bubba was waxing the best in the world who were all on 250fs while he was on a 125? Google Budds Creek and Unadilla from back in the day. He was unreal. Jett is good, but no where near RC and Bubba, and imo Travis. But I am bias so there is that too..
CPR
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3/1/2022 11:52pm
FARANG wrote:
I dunno. The way he made the mistake at Arlington, cross jumped and ended up taking out himself and Forker definitely had shades of Stewart about...
I dunno. The way he made the mistake at Arlington, cross jumped and ended up taking out himself and Forker definitely had shades of Stewart about it.

He also has raw speed and a touch of arrogance.

Not as many wins obviously, but then MX has progressed and he's racing a much tougher field than Stew was.
Everybody will say that their guy was racing against a tougher field. James was racing a field of 250f's that included Chad Reed, Roncada and others...
Everybody will say that their guy was racing against a tougher field. James was racing a field of 250f's that included Chad Reed, Roncada and others on a 125 outdoors. That would be like Jett showing up on a CR125 and running the show. Don't get me wrong Jett is great. But James was the definition of a generational talent. And yes you can add RC to that. Those 2 Florida boys ran the shit for sure. This shouldn't even be debated.
To be fair Reed was a rookie at the time and had never even raced the class before as a pro, while 250f’s were nowhere near the complete mismatch against a 125 that they are now. 250f’s of that era had carbs that bogged, and/ or popped out of the manifold, regularly dropped valves or completely grenaded if over abused and were not so rider friendly

But in saying that Stew was beyond generational, he was one of a kind and it’s not fair to compare anyone to him.
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3/2/2022 12:24am
CPR wrote:
To be fair Reed was a rookie at the time and had never even raced the class before as a pro, while 250f’s were nowhere near...
To be fair Reed was a rookie at the time and had never even raced the class before as a pro, while 250f’s were nowhere near the complete mismatch against a 125 that they are now. 250f’s of that era had carbs that bogged, and/ or popped out of the manifold, regularly dropped valves or completely grenaded if over abused and were not so rider friendly

But in saying that Stew was beyond generational, he was one of a kind and it’s not fair to compare anyone to him.
Those first generation 250 4 strokes were pretty damn solid. I had an 02 cr 125 that motor was ported and polished by Steve Lamson's Dad(rip) with all the goodies. I remember riding a buddies stock yz250f for a few laps and was in shock by how much faster it was and how well it tracked. Shortly after I had shattered my hand and my dad would only let let me ride our 98 xr 200 to stay in shape after I got the cast and pins out. It had been 2 months since I rode I was going faster my first night back than my buddies on 250 2 strokes that were very good riders. This was Club Moto in Livermore,Ca which was clay and blue groove that probably had something to do with it. But that night I realized 2 strokes were about to become extinct. Sadly I was right. I just think riding a 2 stroke fast takes more skill, that's why I was always impressed by Bubba and what he did on that KX125. The one time he rode the 250f he crushed everybody. Sorry for the rambling story. BTW a dealership ship by my house is selling a brand new CRF450 for $13k. I can't work on bikes and my Dad has passed. I got a brand new 04 CR250 2 stroke for 6 k with a discount. And people wonder why the sport is dying. But I did get a 2003 CR250 garage find that was barely ridden by one owner. Do they qualify for vet races yet?
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8500rpm
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3/2/2022 2:13am
Why is it so hard for older men to just let go of the past?

Same goes for other sports, but let me name F1. Oh, so important it is for older men to talk about 'when men were men area' and how Kimi, Lewis, Vettel and more are not as fast as Ayrton Senna or much older men from the 60-70s. Is Max Verstappen faster than Senna? We don't know, but Senna was amazing so is Max. The technology changes, the tools they compete with, so it's not the same. The technique someone mastered in the 80s might not be relevant 40years later, the racer became a champ due to his amazing skills but it's dated now...

What about Jett? Is he faster or slower than JS or RC, we don't know, but it doesn't matter, it doesn't take anything away from anyone. They are all amazing. JS/RC are worth everything they got in their era, now it's a new era.

Why do you have to compare old geezers with the new blood? They are all racers and all fantastic good.

www.oldguysrule.com



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3/2/2022 4:12am
I wouldn't be surprised to see Jett get more 450 titles than JS but he won't be even close to a perfect season outdoors (competition is arguably higher and closer now as well) and he sure as hell isn't close to bubba's speed on a 125 (nobody will ever be).

That said, he had to move to a different continent twice before turning 14 and adjust to different lifestyles, types of training, tracks, etc. So this whole comparison of how many wins he has vs JS makes little sense anyway.
Johnny Ringo
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3/2/2022 4:26am
TDeath21 wrote:
It’s just different now. When James came up it wasn’t uncommon at all to have rookies win races and even championships. Off the top of my...
It’s just different now. When James came up it wasn’t uncommon at all to have rookies win races and even championships. Off the top of my head, rookies to win races and/or championships in the 125 class shortly before James moved up:

97: Carmichael, Roncada

99: Fonseca

00: Pastrana

01: Langston (rookie to SX)

It just seems far more uncommon now. Back then everyone expected the top amateurs to be competing for a championship and winning races right away. Now if they just get a few podiums their first season then win a race the next season, it’s normal. Then the third season of the smaller bike, start winning championships. Which was usually the last year of the small bike back in the day. Now they generally spend 5-7ish years there. Look at Justin Cooper. He’s still seen as one of the “top young guys” and he’s in his 5th season.
Hammaker won last year, Nate Thrasher won two races.

You know who did not win an SX as a rookie? Jett

Your point stands as far as titles go, I think Trey was the last rookie to snag a title. but rookies still win races
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JB479
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3/2/2022 5:06am
TDeath21 wrote:
It’s just different now. When James came up it wasn’t uncommon at all to have rookies win races and even championships. Off the top of my...
It’s just different now. When James came up it wasn’t uncommon at all to have rookies win races and even championships. Off the top of my head, rookies to win races and/or championships in the 125 class shortly before James moved up:

97: Carmichael, Roncada

99: Fonseca

00: Pastrana

01: Langston (rookie to SX)

It just seems far more uncommon now. Back then everyone expected the top amateurs to be competing for a championship and winning races right away. Now if they just get a few podiums their first season then win a race the next season, it’s normal. Then the third season of the smaller bike, start winning championships. Which was usually the last year of the small bike back in the day. Now they generally spend 5-7ish years there. Look at Justin Cooper. He’s still seen as one of the “top young guys” and he’s in his 5th season.
Hammaker won last year, Nate Thrasher won two races. You know who did not win an SX as a rookie? Jett Your point stands as far...
Hammaker won last year, Nate Thrasher won two races.

You know who did not win an SX as a rookie? Jett

Your point stands as far as titles go, I think Trey was the last rookie to snag a title. but rookies still win races
Hammaker is the same age as hunter lawrence. 4 years older then jett.
Johnny Ringo
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3/2/2022 5:14am
TDeath21 wrote:
It’s just different now. When James came up it wasn’t uncommon at all to have rookies win races and even championships. Off the top of my...
It’s just different now. When James came up it wasn’t uncommon at all to have rookies win races and even championships. Off the top of my head, rookies to win races and/or championships in the 125 class shortly before James moved up:

97: Carmichael, Roncada

99: Fonseca

00: Pastrana

01: Langston (rookie to SX)

It just seems far more uncommon now. Back then everyone expected the top amateurs to be competing for a championship and winning races right away. Now if they just get a few podiums their first season then win a race the next season, it’s normal. Then the third season of the smaller bike, start winning championships. Which was usually the last year of the small bike back in the day. Now they generally spend 5-7ish years there. Look at Justin Cooper. He’s still seen as one of the “top young guys” and he’s in his 5th season.
Hammaker won last year, Nate Thrasher won two races. You know who did not win an SX as a rookie? Jett Your point stands as far...
Hammaker won last year, Nate Thrasher won two races.

You know who did not win an SX as a rookie? Jett

Your point stands as far as titles go, I think Trey was the last rookie to snag a title. but rookies still win races
JB479 wrote:
Hammaker is the same age as hunter lawrence. 4 years older then jett.
Sure, in today’s landscape where kids are turning pro at 18,19,20, what Jett is doing is impressive and fun to watch. The sport has changed in that way.
wreckitrandy
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3/2/2022 6:18am
It depends on the context of the comparison. On speed and dominance? No comparison. On willingness to throw any consideration for the health and well-being of self and others out the window?? One big crash isn't a large enough body of work to even be mentioned in the same sentence as James.
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3/2/2022 7:45am
Motoxdoc wrote:
James was quite a bit more accomplished than Jett at this point in their careers. I don’t understand what “comparison is void” means, but you can...
James was quite a bit more accomplished than Jett at this point in their careers. I don’t understand what “comparison is void” means, but you can absolutely compare the two. You can compare any two people. That’s not to say they are the same or on par with each other. You can compare Dungey to Jody Weisel.Huh
Compare - estimate, measure or note the similarity or DISSIMILARITY between.
In fact, the only way we know James was more accomplished than Jett at this point in their careers IS BY COMPARING them. Some of you are even comparing them while saying there is no comparison. 😂
Stop it, stop it now bringing logic and common sense to this place! Laughing
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tomlopez
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3/2/2022 8:31am
A little off-topic, but I think the moto industry in general doesn't give nearly enough credit to Justin Cooper as a racer. He rode at pretty much the same level as Jett last outdoor season, and it ended up being a freak accident at Washougal that cost the title for him. For all the talk about Jett being generational, Cooper sure holds his own against him. Sure he's like 23, but IMO he's the most complete rider in the 250 class, aside from Craig.
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Mr. Afterbar
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3/2/2022 11:49am
JB479 wrote:
Hammaker is the same age as hunter lawrence. 4 years older then jett.
Actually, he is less than 3 years older than Jett. He’s 21. 22 in September.
TannerMxer
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3/2/2022 1:13pm
A lot of these dudes comparing the two never saw Bubba ride in person, or even on TV during his era. I'm not talking James Stewart...
A lot of these dudes comparing the two never saw Bubba ride in person, or even on TV during his era.
I'm not talking James Stewart on a 450 either, I'm talking BUBBA on a 125.
If you know, you effing KNOW.
Jett is great, but he ain't Bubba.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I remember when I thought that the fastest I would ever see anyone go on a bike was Ron Lechien in a second moto at Washougal...
I remember when I thought that the fastest I would ever see anyone go on a bike was Ron Lechien in a second moto at Washougal in 1989. He had a bad finish in the first moto and just held it wide open for the second moto and crushed everyone on the 500.

Then I saw Stewart at Washougal in 2003 on his 125 and it completely blew my perception of the MX world apart.......
I flew out from CA for a weekend and saw this race. When he came down the hill into the s-turn, hopped down the first little hill and wheelied over a single and scrubbed the shit out of the chuck sun table... I had a semi. I was standing right on the fence at the bottom of the s-turn.

Seeing that was life changing tbh. I was seeing something never done before.
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APLMAN99
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3/2/2022 6:58pm
A lot of these dudes comparing the two never saw Bubba ride in person, or even on TV during his era. I'm not talking James Stewart...
A lot of these dudes comparing the two never saw Bubba ride in person, or even on TV during his era.
I'm not talking James Stewart on a 450 either, I'm talking BUBBA on a 125.
If you know, you effing KNOW.
Jett is great, but he ain't Bubba.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I remember when I thought that the fastest I would ever see anyone go on a bike was Ron Lechien in a second moto at Washougal...
I remember when I thought that the fastest I would ever see anyone go on a bike was Ron Lechien in a second moto at Washougal in 1989. He had a bad finish in the first moto and just held it wide open for the second moto and crushed everyone on the 500.

Then I saw Stewart at Washougal in 2003 on his 125 and it completely blew my perception of the MX world apart.......
TannerMxer wrote:
I flew out from CA for a weekend and saw this race. When he came down the hill into the s-turn, hopped down the first little...
I flew out from CA for a weekend and saw this race. When he came down the hill into the s-turn, hopped down the first little hill and wheelied over a single and scrubbed the shit out of the chuck sun table... I had a semi. I was standing right on the fence at the bottom of the s-turn.

Seeing that was life changing tbh. I was seeing something never done before.
My son and I spent most of the first motos on the ‘inside’/uphill side of the s-turn that day. Got pelted with roost from them taking the right hander and going over the ledge. We may have been standing really close to you for quite a while!
3/2/2022 7:22pm
tomlopez wrote:
A little off-topic, but I think the moto industry in general doesn't give nearly enough credit to Justin Cooper as a racer. He rode at pretty...
A little off-topic, but I think the moto industry in general doesn't give nearly enough credit to Justin Cooper as a racer. He rode at pretty much the same level as Jett last outdoor season, and it ended up being a freak accident at Washougal that cost the title for him. For all the talk about Jett being generational, Cooper sure holds his own against him. Sure he's like 23, but IMO he's the most complete rider in the 250 class, aside from Craig.
Last year in the nationals. Jett didn't exactly dominate.


Jett Lawrence 497
Justin Cooper 491
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FARANG
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3/2/2022 7:47pm
crusty_xx wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see Jett get more 450 titles than JS but he won't be even close to a perfect season outdoors (competition is...
I wouldn't be surprised to see Jett get more 450 titles than JS but he won't be even close to a perfect season outdoors (competition is arguably higher and closer now as well) and he sure as hell isn't close to bubba's speed on a 125 (nobody will ever be).

That said, he had to move to a different continent twice before turning 14 and adjust to different lifestyles, types of training, tracks, etc. So this whole comparison of how many wins he has vs JS makes little sense anyway.
Good point on the 450 titles. It's hard to compare one rider who is just starting out versus one who has already retired.

Stewart started off on fire, smashing records and looking like he'd go on to break them all, then he gradually faded away as his career went on. He was like a 1500 metre runner who sprinted the first 500 then limped home, he won pretty much nothing (in terms of titles) in the second half of his career and it all just fizzled out with crashes, injuries, drug bans etc.

I'm pretty sure his last title was in 2009 despite racing until 2016. All that talent but still couldn't win a title in MX or SX for 7 years. Let's see if Jett manages to match that dubious run before we compare the two.

Unlike Stewart, I suspect Jett will go from strength to strength as he moves up. More of a slow burn like an RV or RD, starting more modestly and then getting stronger and winning plenty of titles as their careers progress.


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3/2/2022 7:54pm
Last year in the nationals. Jett didn't exactly dominate.


Jett Lawrence 497
Justin Cooper 491
And Cooper was hurt..this whole Jett vs Bubba thing is old. There is no comparison between these two. Yes Jett is good, he's good but he is no Bubba or Rc. Not even close.
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3/3/2022 9:50am
I’m not sure with the advent of training facilities and all that goes with them we will see someone winning a lot straight out of amateurs like rc, Travis and bubba did , I think the talent gap has been coached and trained out of this generation
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109
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3/3/2022 10:44am
Jett is 19
He's 4th year pro
At this age James was winning premier class mains on a 250 2 stroke against the GOAT and Chad.
Just saying
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4
3/3/2022 11:02am
I agree he's not on the same level but that last race where he was riding on the edge just barely making it through the whoops because he was going so fast did remind me of the checkers or wreckers JS style.
tomlopez
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3/3/2022 11:17am
tomlopez wrote:
A little off-topic, but I think the moto industry in general doesn't give nearly enough credit to Justin Cooper as a racer. He rode at pretty...
A little off-topic, but I think the moto industry in general doesn't give nearly enough credit to Justin Cooper as a racer. He rode at pretty much the same level as Jett last outdoor season, and it ended up being a freak accident at Washougal that cost the title for him. For all the talk about Jett being generational, Cooper sure holds his own against him. Sure he's like 23, but IMO he's the most complete rider in the 250 class, aside from Craig.
Last year in the nationals. Jett didn't exactly dominate.


Jett Lawrence 497
Justin Cooper 491
That's my point... Cooper held his own and almost won the title, but he doesn't get nearly as much praise for his riding.
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mx313
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3/3/2022 11:48am
109 wrote:
Jett is 19 He's 4th year pro At this age James was winning premier class mains on a 250 2 stroke against the GOAT and Chad...
Jett is 19
He's 4th year pro
At this age James was winning premier class mains on a 250 2 stroke against the GOAT and Chad.
Just saying
Jetts 18 and a 3rd year pro.
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Hank_Thrill
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3/3/2022 11:54am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2022 11:56am
109 wrote:
Jett is 19 He's 4th year pro At this age James was winning premier class mains on a 250 2 stroke against the GOAT and Chad...
Jett is 19
He's 4th year pro
At this age James was winning premier class mains on a 250 2 stroke against the GOAT and Chad.
Just saying
mx313 wrote:
Jetts 18 and a 3rd year pro.
I highly doubt he will be racing 450s next year.

Jett will turn 19 in the 250 class this summer. Stewart never raced in the lites/125cc class at that age.

On top of that - Jett will only have 3 championships at most when he turns 19 (granted he wins 250E, Outdoor 250 class). Stewart had 4 in the lites/125cc division and two of those were racing against 4-strokes on a 125!

The sport and the media need someone to hype up and Jett is their trophy boy, but racing wise he is a long ways off from Stewart.
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