2022 250 and 450 Shootout

AH387 wrote:

I personally cringe when I hear "pick a color." The bikes may all be good bikes now a days, but that still doesn't mean it's 1...

I personally cringe when I hear "pick a color." The bikes may all be good bikes now a days, but that still doesn't mean it's 1 size fits all. There are so many different characteristics that each bike has, which should be considered, in my opinion. The different way they handle, type of power, suspension, ergos etc all factor in, when I buy a bike. I just think if people know what works best for them, it can make for a much better choice than picking a color or just getting the shootout winner etc.

ML512 wrote:

That's why I say Shootouts are still important. Yes, all these bikes are really good these days but certain characteristics suit some riders more than others...

That's why I say Shootouts are still important. Yes, all these bikes are really good these days but certain characteristics suit some riders more than others. All the bikes are good but there's definitely a bike on the market that is better for rider A than rider B.

TeamGreen wrote:

Personally, I'd have included the Honda "S". It has it's place AND it's $8,999...which matters to some folks. A well prepped "S" would be a good...

Personally, I'd have included the Honda "S". It has it's place AND it's $8,999...which matters to some folks. A well prepped "S" would be a good bike for a lot of riders.

Still, I'm holding out for a "Red '23" that I'll be buying as a '22...if GasGas EVER get's it here!!!

So, Michael...I'm asking...here...for the record:

When is the Factory Edition, Rockstar Edition, TLD Team Edition, KX-SR, CRF-RWE and...yes...even the YZ-F Monster Edition..."Shootout"?

Note: Suzuki ought to saddle up and make a Twisted Tea Edition!!!

yz133rider wrote:

They should make the twisted tea bike and sell it with the full race spec engine. Stake claim as the FASTEST production bike and take some...

They should make the twisted tea bike and sell it with the full race spec engine.

Stake claim as the FASTEST production bike and take some damn dignity back in the sport.

yz133rider wrote:

They should make the twisted tea bike and sell it with the full race spec engine. Stake claim as the FASTEST production bike and take some...

They should make the twisted tea bike and sell it with the full race spec engine.

Stake claim as the FASTEST production bike and take some damn dignity back in the sport.

yz133rider wrote:

They should make the twisted tea bike and sell it with the full race spec engine. Stake claim as the FASTEST production bike and take some...

They should make the twisted tea bike and sell it with the full race spec engine.

Stake claim as the FASTEST production bike and take some damn dignity back in the sport.

Gillboy67 wrote:

Shit if they just did a twisted tea with a lowering link a FMF or PC pipe and some graphics! Those 2 lil mods change that...

Shit if they just did a twisted tea with a lowering link a FMF or PC pipe and some graphics! Those 2 lil mods change that bike allot! Put some FCP hangers on it and torque everything to Kawi specs and the suzuki is another bike. Still gotta kick it though.

yz133rider wrote:

Not enough they have some serious reputation repairing to do.

Timo wrote:

#bluecrew I've been saying it for 3 years now that this is the best 450 on the market! For 2023 Yamaha's goal should be from RV...

#bluecrew
I've been saying it for 3 years now that this is the best 450 on the market! For 2023 Yamaha's goal should be from RV, "don't fuck it up". Also please keep the lower seat, tall fuckers can buy a tall seat. I like buying a bike that I can touch the ground with both feet at the same time.

ML512 wrote:

Bump, added 250 In-Depth Honda CRF250R, more of the 250 round tables will come out this next week. Also, full article will be posted this afternoon.

Timo wrote:

#bluecrew I've been saying it for 3 years now that this is the best 450 on the market! For 2023 Yamaha's goal should be from RV...

#bluecrew
I've been saying it for 3 years now that this is the best 450 on the market! For 2023 Yamaha's goal should be from RV, "don't fuck it up". Also please keep the lower seat, tall fuckers can buy a tall seat. I like buying a bike that I can touch the ground with both feet at the same time.

gt80rider wrote:

Short dudes that ride moto and complain bikes are too tall..... lol....

TeamGreen wrote:

At the end of a conference call, yesterday, someone asked me,"What bike should I get?" He wanted a bike for track days, the occasional off-road ride...

At the end of a conference call, yesterday, someone asked me,"What bike should I get?"
He wanted a bike for track days, the occasional off-road ride and he wanted it to be "EASY TO KEEP" & won't be spending silly money on silly stuff.

Caveats: He's got an '18 RMZ 450 that I am familiar with (I know what he has done to it/what mods he has) & someone has offered him a good price for it.

I told him to get another one or just put the RMZ250 KYB shock on his. He laughed while saying,"Seriously?"
Yup.

We kept talking and it looks like we're both gonna build RMZs: KYB rear shock (because we get'em REALLY cheap!). Yosh pipe. VP Fuel w/ white ECU plug. 3 Stiffer clutch springs...only 3. A coupl'a sets of Yellow Dubya rims (I always keep spare wheels around/convenient/lazy). IMS 2.7 Gal tank. A good tough chain guide. Mika MC Bend Raw bars. ODI bolt ons. Guts seat. Graphics. Might try a Rekluse for off roading, too.

(Much of what I'm talking about doing to the RMZ has been done by Vital member Ted722)

Why the Suzuki? Because, it's bullet-proof and is EASY to ride just about anywhere. From the track to gnarly off road. It's in-expensive, yes...even with the mods/parts I've listed, it's cheap to build.
It's VERY dependable.
It's super "basic" to work on.
It will NEVER have a dead battery.
It will never need a "back up kick-starter kit".
It's THOUSANDS of dollars cheaper than the other bikes.
We all know that it's an amazing handling bike that turns like a dream.

When it's all said and done, we'll be into these bikes for A LOT less than we'd be if we got any other bike...well...other than maybe the Honda "S"...if we could get the same deal on one of those...and we can't.

I've ridden virtually ALL of the bikes that're out there & even a few that aren't out there...yet. And, still, I am building another Suzuki. The bike is that good. I think we get a little too wrapped up in "fastest" and "coolest" and the insanity of "brand loyalty"...
I know I do.
I know I have.
...and I'm over it.

Since riding the living shit out of that BEAT TO HELL 2018 that was handed to me a few months after our 2018 Shootout...after being "the loaner" that EVERYBODY borrowed and beat on and NEVER worked on...and the ease and "in-expense" of cleaning it up and straightening it out...and know this...it was ROUGH when I got it...still...

I rode it all damn year & then some.
Raced all sorts of moto thru-out SoCal.
Raced it at Mammoth (got some bears!)
Raced it at Day in the Dirt (Won the old guy class)
Raced a coupl'a Hare Scrambles on it (GREAT "off-road" bike!)
Finally gave it back to Suzuki...in the spring of 2019.
It was still in great shape and getting hole-shots.

If we get way from all the hype and glam of all of this shootout stuff & "racing-marketing"...?
It's simply a great bike for the money.

Truth be told: I'm a hypocrite that still falls for all the hype, too!

TeamGreen wrote:

At the end of a conference call, yesterday, someone asked me,"What bike should I get?" He wanted a bike for track days, the occasional off-road ride...

At the end of a conference call, yesterday, someone asked me,"What bike should I get?"
He wanted a bike for track days, the occasional off-road ride and he wanted it to be "EASY TO KEEP" & won't be spending silly money on silly stuff.

Caveats: He's got an '18 RMZ 450 that I am familiar with (I know what he has done to it/what mods he has) & someone has offered him a good price for it.

I told him to get another one or just put the RMZ250 KYB shock on his. He laughed while saying,"Seriously?"
Yup.

We kept talking and it looks like we're both gonna build RMZs: KYB rear shock (because we get'em REALLY cheap!). Yosh pipe. VP Fuel w/ white ECU plug. 3 Stiffer clutch springs...only 3. A coupl'a sets of Yellow Dubya rims (I always keep spare wheels around/convenient/lazy). IMS 2.7 Gal tank. A good tough chain guide. Mika MC Bend Raw bars. ODI bolt ons. Guts seat. Graphics. Might try a Rekluse for off roading, too.

(Much of what I'm talking about doing to the RMZ has been done by Vital member Ted722)

Why the Suzuki? Because, it's bullet-proof and is EASY to ride just about anywhere. From the track to gnarly off road. It's in-expensive, yes...even with the mods/parts I've listed, it's cheap to build.
It's VERY dependable.
It's super "basic" to work on.
It will NEVER have a dead battery.
It will never need a "back up kick-starter kit".
It's THOUSANDS of dollars cheaper than the other bikes.
We all know that it's an amazing handling bike that turns like a dream.

When it's all said and done, we'll be into these bikes for A LOT less than we'd be if we got any other bike...well...other than maybe the Honda "S"...if we could get the same deal on one of those...and we can't.

I've ridden virtually ALL of the bikes that're out there & even a few that aren't out there...yet. And, still, I am building another Suzuki. The bike is that good. I think we get a little too wrapped up in "fastest" and "coolest" and the insanity of "brand loyalty"...
I know I do.
I know I have.
...and I'm over it.

Since riding the living shit out of that BEAT TO HELL 2018 that was handed to me a few months after our 2018 Shootout...after being "the loaner" that EVERYBODY borrowed and beat on and NEVER worked on...and the ease and "in-expense" of cleaning it up and straightening it out...and know this...it was ROUGH when I got it...still...

I rode it all damn year & then some.
Raced all sorts of moto thru-out SoCal.
Raced it at Mammoth (got some bears!)
Raced it at Day in the Dirt (Won the old guy class)
Raced a coupl'a Hare Scrambles on it (GREAT "off-road" bike!)
Finally gave it back to Suzuki...in the spring of 2019.
It was still in great shape and getting hole-shots.

If we get way from all the hype and glam of all of this shootout stuff & "racing-marketing"...?
It's simply a great bike for the money.

Truth be told: I'm a hypocrite that still falls for all the hype, too!

Sandusky26 wrote:

How much better is the KYB shock? I’m running the stock one with a revalve, and I feel like I have it pretty dialed. Mine is...

How much better is the KYB shock?

I’m running the stock one with a revalve, and I feel like I have it pretty dialed.

Mine is stock besides a FMF, I tried a 51 sprocket, but I didn’t like how early I had to click 4th. I put a new OEM piston a now I kinda wish I went with a little more compression.

I’ll take all the tips I can get.

TeamGreen wrote:

At the end of a conference call, yesterday, someone asked me,"What bike should I get?" He wanted a bike for track days, the occasional off-road ride...

At the end of a conference call, yesterday, someone asked me,"What bike should I get?"
He wanted a bike for track days, the occasional off-road ride and he wanted it to be "EASY TO KEEP" & won't be spending silly money on silly stuff.

Caveats: He's got an '18 RMZ 450 that I am familiar with (I know what he has done to it/what mods he has) & someone has offered him a good price for it.

I told him to get another one or just put the RMZ250 KYB shock on his. He laughed while saying,"Seriously?"
Yup.

We kept talking and it looks like we're both gonna build RMZs: KYB rear shock (because we get'em REALLY cheap!). Yosh pipe. VP Fuel w/ white ECU plug. 3 Stiffer clutch springs...only 3. A coupl'a sets of Yellow Dubya rims (I always keep spare wheels around/convenient/lazy). IMS 2.7 Gal tank. A good tough chain guide. Mika MC Bend Raw bars. ODI bolt ons. Guts seat. Graphics. Might try a Rekluse for off roading, too.

(Much of what I'm talking about doing to the RMZ has been done by Vital member Ted722)

Why the Suzuki? Because, it's bullet-proof and is EASY to ride just about anywhere. From the track to gnarly off road. It's in-expensive, yes...even with the mods/parts I've listed, it's cheap to build.
It's VERY dependable.
It's super "basic" to work on.
It will NEVER have a dead battery.
It will never need a "back up kick-starter kit".
It's THOUSANDS of dollars cheaper than the other bikes.
We all know that it's an amazing handling bike that turns like a dream.

When it's all said and done, we'll be into these bikes for A LOT less than we'd be if we got any other bike...well...other than maybe the Honda "S"...if we could get the same deal on one of those...and we can't.

I've ridden virtually ALL of the bikes that're out there & even a few that aren't out there...yet. And, still, I am building another Suzuki. The bike is that good. I think we get a little too wrapped up in "fastest" and "coolest" and the insanity of "brand loyalty"...
I know I do.
I know I have.
...and I'm over it.

Since riding the living shit out of that BEAT TO HELL 2018 that was handed to me a few months after our 2018 Shootout...after being "the loaner" that EVERYBODY borrowed and beat on and NEVER worked on...and the ease and "in-expense" of cleaning it up and straightening it out...and know this...it was ROUGH when I got it...still...

I rode it all damn year & then some.
Raced all sorts of moto thru-out SoCal.
Raced it at Mammoth (got some bears!)
Raced it at Day in the Dirt (Won the old guy class)
Raced a coupl'a Hare Scrambles on it (GREAT "off-road" bike!)
Finally gave it back to Suzuki...in the spring of 2019.
It was still in great shape and getting hole-shots.

If we get way from all the hype and glam of all of this shootout stuff & "racing-marketing"...?
It's simply a great bike for the money.

Truth be told: I'm a hypocrite that still falls for all the hype, too!

TeamGreen wrote:

At the end of a conference call, yesterday, someone asked me,"What bike should I get?" He wanted a bike for track days, the occasional off-road ride...

At the end of a conference call, yesterday, someone asked me,"What bike should I get?"
He wanted a bike for track days, the occasional off-road ride and he wanted it to be "EASY TO KEEP" & won't be spending silly money on silly stuff.

Caveats: He's got an '18 RMZ 450 that I am familiar with (I know what he has done to it/what mods he has) & someone has offered him a good price for it.

I told him to get another one or just put the RMZ250 KYB shock on his. He laughed while saying,"Seriously?"
Yup.

We kept talking and it looks like we're both gonna build RMZs: KYB rear shock (because we get'em REALLY cheap!). Yosh pipe. VP Fuel w/ white ECU plug. 3 Stiffer clutch springs...only 3. A coupl'a sets of Yellow Dubya rims (I always keep spare wheels around/convenient/lazy). IMS 2.7 Gal tank. A good tough chain guide. Mika MC Bend Raw bars. ODI bolt ons. Guts seat. Graphics. Might try a Rekluse for off roading, too.

(Much of what I'm talking about doing to the RMZ has been done by Vital member Ted722)

Why the Suzuki? Because, it's bullet-proof and is EASY to ride just about anywhere. From the track to gnarly off road. It's in-expensive, yes...even with the mods/parts I've listed, it's cheap to build.
It's VERY dependable.
It's super "basic" to work on.
It will NEVER have a dead battery.
It will never need a "back up kick-starter kit".
It's THOUSANDS of dollars cheaper than the other bikes.
We all know that it's an amazing handling bike that turns like a dream.

When it's all said and done, we'll be into these bikes for A LOT less than we'd be if we got any other bike...well...other than maybe the Honda "S"...if we could get the same deal on one of those...and we can't.

I've ridden virtually ALL of the bikes that're out there & even a few that aren't out there...yet. And, still, I am building another Suzuki. The bike is that good. I think we get a little too wrapped up in "fastest" and "coolest" and the insanity of "brand loyalty"...
I know I do.
I know I have.
...and I'm over it.

Since riding the living shit out of that BEAT TO HELL 2018 that was handed to me a few months after our 2018 Shootout...after being "the loaner" that EVERYBODY borrowed and beat on and NEVER worked on...and the ease and "in-expense" of cleaning it up and straightening it out...and know this...it was ROUGH when I got it...still...

I rode it all damn year & then some.
Raced all sorts of moto thru-out SoCal.
Raced it at Mammoth (got some bears!)
Raced it at Day in the Dirt (Won the old guy class)
Raced a coupl'a Hare Scrambles on it (GREAT "off-road" bike!)
Finally gave it back to Suzuki...in the spring of 2019.
It was still in great shape and getting hole-shots.

If we get way from all the hype and glam of all of this shootout stuff & "racing-marketing"...?
It's simply a great bike for the money.

Truth be told: I'm a hypocrite that still falls for all the hype, too!

duboiz wrote:

How cheap are you getting these bad boys for :whistle: (250 not 450) I've been wanting to pick one up to race Mammoth and try to...

How cheap are you getting these bad boys for (250 not 450)

I've been wanting to pick one up to race Mammoth and try to get some Pro-AM points on, but have been waiting to find that "golden" deal everyone seems to find on Vital haha. All I want is bulletproof motor with good baseline suspension components that I can get tuned.

Coming from a 2019 yz450f, i'd miss the e-start, but would gladly give it up for a bike that doesn't stand up in corners.

TeamGreen wrote:

I had the stock Showa done by Factory Connection and it worked pretty damn good and is, to this day, THE BEST "Off-Road" shock I've EVER...

I had the stock Showa done by Factory Connection and it worked pretty damn good and is, to this day, THE BEST "Off-Road" shock I've EVER had. But, the KYB is more in-line with what most people know and "like". It's adjusters/settings are typical KYB and they simply work "normal". The stock Showa requires a good bit of attention be paid to Rebound...which most folks don't play with enough...but, once you do? You can make that shock work really, really well.

The 250s KYB is potentially a good alternative to spending a bunch of money on the stock Showa. Especially for those folks that just want a "normal" shock with adjusters they know and understand.

All of that is based on someone having a good relationship with their dealer and being able to get a good deal on the KYB.

Btw, simply adjusting the preload on the front seems to be the answer on the RMZ: The forks work pretty darn good!

As for your power desires: I'd try some VP U4 mixed 50/50 with fresh pump fuel (Pretty sure you have non E 93 avail at the pump for a good deal...right? Use that mix w/Black plug...as I recall). This all assumes your trying the various plugs in your ECU harness, too. VP T4 ran straight (not mixed) DOES make good power in that bike. I know; because, that's all I ran with the Yosh "Signature" pipe and the white-plug.

I ran 120/80 rears and kept them fresh. That gave this bike really good "hook up" on most turn exits (usually with a 100.80 front). I usually ran the rear at around 102mm-105mm depending on the track and usually had the forks up to the tops or at the 1st line from the top (I know you know what I mean).

I ran everything from 48 rears for off-road to 52s for short-tracks. I think I ran the 50 the most. Personally, I learned to use 3rd and 4th on the Zook like I use 2nd and 3rd on my SX-F. The Zook makes a lot of usable low-mid torque with a good pipe and fuel. Also, good pipes seem to let it rev 'free-er'.

I'm still sitting here remembering how easy this bike was to maintain and keep "fresh". I miss it. Gotta get another one!

TeamGreen wrote:

I had the stock Showa done by Factory Connection and it worked pretty damn good and is, to this day, THE BEST "Off-Road" shock I've EVER...

I had the stock Showa done by Factory Connection and it worked pretty damn good and is, to this day, THE BEST "Off-Road" shock I've EVER had. But, the KYB is more in-line with what most people know and "like". It's adjusters/settings are typical KYB and they simply work "normal". The stock Showa requires a good bit of attention be paid to Rebound...which most folks don't play with enough...but, once you do? You can make that shock work really, really well.

The 250s KYB is potentially a good alternative to spending a bunch of money on the stock Showa. Especially for those folks that just want a "normal" shock with adjusters they know and understand.

All of that is based on someone having a good relationship with their dealer and being able to get a good deal on the KYB.

Btw, simply adjusting the preload on the front seems to be the answer on the RMZ: The forks work pretty darn good!

As for your power desires: I'd try some VP U4 mixed 50/50 with fresh pump fuel (Pretty sure you have non E 93 avail at the pump for a good deal...right? Use that mix w/Black plug...as I recall). This all assumes your trying the various plugs in your ECU harness, too. VP T4 ran straight (not mixed) DOES make good power in that bike. I know; because, that's all I ran with the Yosh "Signature" pipe and the white-plug.

I ran 120/80 rears and kept them fresh. That gave this bike really good "hook up" on most turn exits (usually with a 100.80 front). I usually ran the rear at around 102mm-105mm depending on the track and usually had the forks up to the tops or at the 1st line from the top (I know you know what I mean).

I ran everything from 48 rears for off-road to 52s for short-tracks. I think I ran the 50 the most. Personally, I learned to use 3rd and 4th on the Zook like I use 2nd and 3rd on my SX-F. The Zook makes a lot of usable low-mid torque with a good pipe and fuel. Also, good pipes seem to let it rev 'free-er'.

I'm still sitting here remembering how easy this bike was to maintain and keep "fresh". I miss it. Gotta get another one!

Sandusky26 wrote:

I have my stuff done by Total Control in NC and I’m pretty damn happy with it. Went up a spring rate on the forks, and...

I have my stuff done by Total Control in NC and I’m pretty damn happy with it. Went up a spring rate on the forks, and I like them flush with the cap. I run 108 on the sag and I’m using the stock spring. I tried running less sag but I end up going back.

I know what you mean about 3rd and 4th, I never use 2nd gear.

If T4 wasn’t so expensive compared to pump I’d run it, I’m thinking if it had a lil more power to pull 4th earlier, it would be easier to ride. Have you tried a vortex ignition?

With the mapping, I have the Suzuki programmer and I have it in the aggressive map. I like the extra power, but I wish it carried a little further.

I have 71 hours on mine and it still feels tight.