Wood chips

yz133rider
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yz133rider 8/30/2021 6:00am
8/30/2021 6:00am
sesker15 wrote:
Have any of you guys ridden at Tomahawk in west va? The track is mostly wood chips and saw dust! It gets super rough!
ninesevenfour wrote:
Seems like he’s reaping the benefits of doing it long term. The place is great!
That track was amazing Friday and Saturday. 90+ degree sunny days and nearly zero dust all day long even with non stop racing Saturday.
1
onewheelwheaties 8/30/2021 6:25am
8/30/2021 6:25am
One of my local tracks growing up (Blue Diamond RIP) used a ton of wood chips but they were sometimes too big when fresh. They would be slippery when wet and heavy water would wash them down into the low spots which created soft pockets. The big wood chips also really sucked to crash in as they would cut you up. They would eventually break down into beautiful black loam though and always allowed for ruts and braking bumps to shape up.
JustMX
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JustMX 8/30/2021 7:19am
8/30/2021 7:19am
I would suggest that the problem isn't as much the sawdust as it is some areas were over watered.

Sawdust holds the moisture, so if you have an area with heavy concentration of saturated sawdust, or if it is a shaded area that might not dry out as fast it is easy to over water.

That would especially be true in the morning when qualifying is happening and the track is being ridden into shape.

I suspect df14 was not whining about it as much at the end of the day.

Et3 sure wasn't.
2
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 8/30/2021 11:00am
8/30/2021 11:00am
Sawdust done right is awesome.....





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Owen H
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Owen H 8/30/2021 3:11pm
8/30/2021 3:11pm
Hammer 663s wrote:
Sawdust done right is awesome..... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508142/s1200_JB1Cropped.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508139/s1200_step_4.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508141/s1200_step_5.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508140/s1200_step_6.jpg[/img]
Sawdust done right is awesome.....





What track is that? looks very nice.
ktmwoods
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ktmwoods 8/30/2021 3:33pm
8/30/2021 3:33pm
Hammer 663s wrote:
Sawdust done right is awesome..... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508142/s1200_JB1Cropped.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508139/s1200_step_4.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508141/s1200_step_5.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508140/s1200_step_6.jpg[/img]
Sawdust done right is awesome.....





Exactly! On our private nor cal track (a couple miles away from Hangtown, but close to a riverbed) we till in rice hulls that have been left in the sun to start breaking down. ANY organic matter added to clay dirt will enhance the moisture retention and “loamy” feel. Sawdust is pretty ideal, rode a bunch at Bremen MX in Georgia when Kevin Kelly owned and operated that place. No question it ruts up faster and more braking and acceleration bumps, but IMO the soil is sooo much better to ride with a proper mix tilled in.
2
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 8/30/2021 3:49pm
8/30/2021 3:49pm
Owen H wrote:
What track is that? looks very nice.
It's a small private track outside of Portland OR. My buddy owns it and I do a lot of the prep in exchange for track time. It's a weed patch right now - been too busy to work it - but we will refresh it this Fall. I've got a big pile of sawdust to work in and a few smaller piles of woodchips that have been decomposing for 6 months too.

It has almost unlimited traction when it's good. You can literally drag bars in the bowl turns. A lot of that is due to the sawdust/topsoil/clay blend and how it holds moisture and forms solid, smooth ruts that don't collapse.

You can see the sawmill in the background.

Hammer 663s


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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 8/30/2021 3:56pm
8/30/2021 3:56pm
A pro tip. Use liquid laundry detergent in your water truck after it’s full.
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Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 8/30/2021 4:02pm
8/30/2021 4:02pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2021 4:04pm
We run a small track here. Our track was becoming a bit hard packed. So we got our hands on numerous loads of wood chips. We ripped the track deep and worked them in. It was a real game changer for us. The track held moisture much better and it was more loamy.

If you can let them sit in a pile for 6 to 12 months they start to break down and are almost like sawdust.

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Owen H
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Owen H 8/31/2021 6:19am
8/31/2021 6:19am
Indy mxer wrote:
We run a small track here. Our track was becoming a bit hard packed. So we got our hands on numerous loads of wood chips. We...
We run a small track here. Our track was becoming a bit hard packed. So we got our hands on numerous loads of wood chips. We ripped the track deep and worked them in. It was a real game changer for us. The track held moisture much better and it was more loamy.

If you can let them sit in a pile for 6 to 12 months they start to break down and are almost like sawdust.

I am heavily considering opening a facility in my area. I already intend on living on property and having a personal track so it's not a huge leap to start something formal. How do you get the chips? Local mills? How deep did you disturb the soil? What equipment was used to do it? Lol rapid fire!
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 8/31/2021 10:05am
8/31/2021 10:05am
Indy mxer wrote:
We run a small track here. Our track was becoming a bit hard packed. So we got our hands on numerous loads of wood chips. We...
We run a small track here. Our track was becoming a bit hard packed. So we got our hands on numerous loads of wood chips. We ripped the track deep and worked them in. It was a real game changer for us. The track held moisture much better and it was more loamy.

If you can let them sit in a pile for 6 to 12 months they start to break down and are almost like sawdust.

Owen H wrote:
I am heavily considering opening a facility in my area. I already intend on living on property and having a personal track so it's not a...
I am heavily considering opening a facility in my area. I already intend on living on property and having a personal track so it's not a huge leap to start something formal. How do you get the chips? Local mills? How deep did you disturb the soil? What equipment was used to do it? Lol rapid fire!
Got your PM and replied but never know if it actually worked. Smile

Hammer 663s
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Skerby
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Skerby 8/31/2021 10:17am
8/31/2021 10:17am
Saw mills are paying people to haul wood chips away out here.
1
Owen H
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Owen H 8/31/2021 10:31am
8/31/2021 10:31am
Hammer 663s wrote:
Got your PM and replied but never know if it actually worked. Smile

Hammer 663s
I edited some settings, try me again please.
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Owen H
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Owen H 8/31/2021 10:53am
8/31/2021 10:53am
Hammer 663s wrote:
Sawdust done right is awesome..... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508142/s1200_JB1Cropped.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508139/s1200_step_4.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508141/s1200_step_5.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/30/508140/s1200_step_6.jpg[/img]
Sawdust done right is awesome.....





ktmwoods wrote:
Exactly! On our private nor cal track (a couple miles away from Hangtown, but close to a riverbed) we till in rice hulls that have been...
Exactly! On our private nor cal track (a couple miles away from Hangtown, but close to a riverbed) we till in rice hulls that have been left in the sun to start breaking down. ANY organic matter added to clay dirt will enhance the moisture retention and “loamy” feel. Sawdust is pretty ideal, rode a bunch at Bremen MX in Georgia when Kevin Kelly owned and operated that place. No question it ruts up faster and more braking and acceleration bumps, but IMO the soil is sooo much better to ride with a proper mix tilled in.
You say any organic material.. There's alot of farming by me. Corn and beans specifically. What about stalk shreds? Trying to wrap my head around this with little experience.
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 8/31/2021 11:24am
8/31/2021 11:24am
Owen H wrote:
You say any organic material.. There's alot of farming by me. Corn and beans specifically. What about stalk shreds? Trying to wrap my head around this...
You say any organic material.. There's alot of farming by me. Corn and beans specifically. What about stalk shreds? Trying to wrap my head around this with little experience.
All biomass will eventually degrade and help the soil. Rate of decay, ease of working in, ride-ability might vary widely. Some styles of woodchips take forever to decay, and really hurt when you take one in the nose. Corn stalk shreds would likely jack up your tiller bad. Bean hulls might work well, like bigger rice hulls (which I never liked at Hangtown and other Sac area tracks) but I don't know how they decay.

I love to add a combo of fresh fir sawdust and beach sand ($$$$$!), with a little pine woodchips. My base soil takes that really well, gets super deep and loamy, is easy to prep and easy on the equipment, holds water well, and even smells good!

Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 8/31/2021 11:29am
8/31/2021 11:29am Edited Date/Time 8/31/2021 11:32am
Here's older threads with lots of photos and prep techniques. There's more than one way to do it right.....

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Backyard-track-builders,…

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Home-motocross-track-pho…

Owen H
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Owen H 8/31/2021 11:30am
8/31/2021 11:30am
Hammer 663s wrote:
All biomass will eventually degrade and help the soil. Rate of decay, ease of working in, ride-ability might vary widely. Some styles of woodchips take forever...
All biomass will eventually degrade and help the soil. Rate of decay, ease of working in, ride-ability might vary widely. Some styles of woodchips take forever to decay, and really hurt when you take one in the nose. Corn stalk shreds would likely jack up your tiller bad. Bean hulls might work well, like bigger rice hulls (which I never liked at Hangtown and other Sac area tracks) but I don't know how they decay.

I love to add a combo of fresh fir sawdust and beach sand ($$$$$!), with a little pine woodchips. My base soil takes that really well, gets super deep and loamy, is easy to prep and easy on the equipment, holds water well, and even smells good!

Hammer 663s
If you don't mind, upload some photos of the track prepped. I'd love to see it. Is sand expensive to bring in? What is the price per load?
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 8/31/2021 12:06pm
8/31/2021 12:06pm
Owen H wrote:
If you don't mind, upload some photos of the track prepped. I'd love to see it. Is sand expensive to bring in? What is the price...
If you don't mind, upload some photos of the track prepped. I'd love to see it. Is sand expensive to bring in? What is the price per load?
Here's a few. Sand is $250 for 5 yards here as it's not a local commodity. We don't buy much since sawdust is so much cheaper.







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wrc777
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wrc777 8/31/2021 12:23pm
8/31/2021 12:23pm
Another option is find some people with horses. Used sawdust/wood chips work well too and have even more organics.
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Owen H
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Owen H 8/31/2021 12:40pm
8/31/2021 12:40pm
Hammer 663s wrote:
Here's a few. Sand is $250 for 5 yards here as it's not a local commodity. We don't buy much since sawdust is so much cheaper...
Here's a few. Sand is $250 for 5 yards here as it's not a local commodity. We don't buy much since sawdust is so much cheaper.







Amazing. I am right down the way from many rock/commodity places with sand. We are also at the convergence of four rivers (ohio, tn, mississippi, cumberland). Sand from dredging is considered a hassle and is offloaded by bargeload and extremely cheap from what I understand. So I don't think the prices are comparable necessarily. I need to get a truck before quoting though. That looks amazing with just the sawdust. We have alot of mills here as well, many of which we do business with. I should be able to get my hands on both for a good price, if not free (disregarding transportation costs).
It's a shame you're on the other side of the country. I'd love to witness the process.
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 8/31/2021 1:02pm
8/31/2021 1:02pm
Owen H wrote:
Amazing. I am right down the way from many rock/commodity places with sand. We are also at the convergence of four rivers (ohio, tn, mississippi, cumberland)...
Amazing. I am right down the way from many rock/commodity places with sand. We are also at the convergence of four rivers (ohio, tn, mississippi, cumberland). Sand from dredging is considered a hassle and is offloaded by bargeload and extremely cheap from what I understand. So I don't think the prices are comparable necessarily. I need to get a truck before quoting though. That looks amazing with just the sawdust. We have alot of mills here as well, many of which we do business with. I should be able to get my hands on both for a good price, if not free (disregarding transportation costs).
It's a shame you're on the other side of the country. I'd love to witness the process.
Process is really easy:

Start with damp dirt.
Rip as deep as you can (D5K will go 18" easy)
Pick out all the rocks and crap you find (we have very few rocks at all)
Bucket sawdust evenly at 4-6" deep over all straights & corners.
Add 1-2" of sand if you like, and/or throw in a few woodchips.
Rip it all again
Water it heavy and let sit overnight
In the morning, till it as deep as you can. This is hard on the tractor so 40+ HP for a 6' tiller.
While the track sets up, I then till & shape the faces, and till tabletops and landings, whoops, roller section an inch or 2 and then pack them down with my truck. No sawdust or sand on these.

Then go ride the livin $hit out of it!
Rule #1 - the prep guy gets the first 3 laps. Then I let others ride it. Smile

With this prep, we can hammer it all day and all it needs at the end is a retill and some water, and it's ready for the next day.
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Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 9/1/2021 5:11am
9/1/2021 5:11am
Indy mxer wrote:
We run a small track here. Our track was becoming a bit hard packed. So we got our hands on numerous loads of wood chips. We...
We run a small track here. Our track was becoming a bit hard packed. So we got our hands on numerous loads of wood chips. We ripped the track deep and worked them in. It was a real game changer for us. The track held moisture much better and it was more loamy.

If you can let them sit in a pile for 6 to 12 months they start to break down and are almost like sawdust.

Owen H wrote:
I am heavily considering opening a facility in my area. I already intend on living on property and having a personal track so it's not a...
I am heavily considering opening a facility in my area. I already intend on living on property and having a personal track so it's not a huge leap to start something formal. How do you get the chips? Local mills? How deep did you disturb the soil? What equipment was used to do it? Lol rapid fire!
Will live in a small town. The city here has their own tree crew. So we just asked them to dump them at our track. We also know a local tree trimmer and he gave us numerous loads as well.
Tree companies are usually looking for places to dump when they're in the area.

We use a ripper behind a tractor and dozer. Then spread the chips and disc them in.

If you decide to do it, try doing open practices for a while to gauge interest and get your track dialed in.
Plus you won't have much expense involved compared to doing a race. So you make decent money for much less work. That way you can get some income going to put back into the facility.
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Owen H
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Owen H 9/1/2021 9:49am
9/1/2021 9:49am
Indy mxer wrote:
Will live in a small town. The city here has their own tree crew. So we just asked them to dump them at our track. We...
Will live in a small town. The city here has their own tree crew. So we just asked them to dump them at our track. We also know a local tree trimmer and he gave us numerous loads as well.
Tree companies are usually looking for places to dump when they're in the area.

We use a ripper behind a tractor and dozer. Then spread the chips and disc them in.

If you decide to do it, try doing open practices for a while to gauge interest and get your track dialed in.
Plus you won't have much expense involved compared to doing a race. So you make decent money for much less work. That way you can get some income going to put back into the facility.
Yeah I intend to have set stages/goals for the facility that will need to be met before it 'levels up' in quality. It takes alot to do this kind if thing I have become aware. The difference in a tractor blade track and a pro level course is insane. I am seeking a natural terrain area that I will do a substantial amount of rearranging on with a focus on safety and fun. I've ridden too many sketchy tracks lol.
I'm not in it for personal financial gain, but I do want it to make money so that the facility grows and has good equipment. You're only about 3 hours from me, I may come up soon and see if I can learn anything from you (:
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 9/1/2021 11:17am
9/1/2021 11:17am
Indy mxer wrote:
Will live in a small town. The city here has their own tree crew. So we just asked them to dump them at our track. We...
Will live in a small town. The city here has their own tree crew. So we just asked them to dump them at our track. We also know a local tree trimmer and he gave us numerous loads as well.
Tree companies are usually looking for places to dump when they're in the area.

We use a ripper behind a tractor and dozer. Then spread the chips and disc them in.

If you decide to do it, try doing open practices for a while to gauge interest and get your track dialed in.
Plus you won't have much expense involved compared to doing a race. So you make decent money for much less work. That way you can get some income going to put back into the facility.
Owen H wrote:
Yeah I intend to have set stages/goals for the facility that will need to be met before it 'levels up' in quality. It takes alot to...
Yeah I intend to have set stages/goals for the facility that will need to be met before it 'levels up' in quality. It takes alot to do this kind if thing I have become aware. The difference in a tractor blade track and a pro level course is insane. I am seeking a natural terrain area that I will do a substantial amount of rearranging on with a focus on safety and fun. I've ridden too many sketchy tracks lol.
I'm not in it for personal financial gain, but I do want it to make money so that the facility grows and has good equipment. You're only about 3 hours from me, I may come up soon and see if I can learn anything from you (:
We'll help you all we can. We've been at this for many years as a groupp of 4 guys. PM if needed.
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Big E
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Big E 9/1/2021 12:34pm
9/1/2021 12:34pm
chope573 wrote:
Look I get it but these guys are not complaining for a reason, Can't replace dirt.
crusty_xx wrote:
via GIPHY

via GIPHY

this...
SCC
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SCC 9/1/2021 12:37pm
9/1/2021 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 9/1/2021 12:44pm
Who besides Plessinger and Ferandis complained? Plenty of guys said they loved the track. Only those who did not win or had a off day complained. Yep dry blue groove hard pack is motocross. Hope we see more of it. Be nice to see some dust again also.
Owen H
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Owen H 9/1/2021 12:40pm
9/1/2021 12:40pm
SCC wrote:
Who besides Plessinger and Ferandis complained? Plenty of guys said they loved the track. Only those who did not win or had a off day complained...
Who besides Plessinger and Ferandis complained? Plenty of guys said they loved the track. Only those who did not win or had a off day complained. Yep dry blue groove hard pack is motocross. Hope we see more of it. Be nice to see some dust again also.
ferrandis was pretty open about his dislike of it. I say good. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. There's always a need for greasing something.

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