Beta 450

LungButter
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8/19/2021 3:40pm
Beta knows what they’re doing look at all the off road races they’re winning and that’s harder on engines then mx racing like for over heating...
Beta knows what they’re doing look at all the off road races they’re winning and that’s harder on engines then mx racing like for over heating and engine failure, 3 hours of straight wide open racing . And they will have a team here in mx next year if you listen to what everyone is saying !! Steve and JT were talking about it on the pulp show about a team coming next year so that Jean they must have at least 400 production bikes coming for the public market.
Yeah, I'd say Joe Wasson and Zane Roberts are definitely putting the motor to the test. Those dudes are flat ON IT right now in the dez....

They are riding the 480 though. I notice that is what Dare is riding too. I remember an interview with Joe at some point talking about how much better he liked the 480 than the 450. I wonder if the production 450 they have access to is just a little down on power still?
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Johnny Depp
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8/19/2021 4:09pm
Beta knows what they’re doing look at all the off road races they’re winning and that’s harder on engines then mx racing like for over heating...
Beta knows what they’re doing look at all the off road races they’re winning and that’s harder on engines then mx racing like for over heating and engine failure, 3 hours of straight wide open racing . And they will have a team here in mx next year if you listen to what everyone is saying !! Steve and JT were talking about it on the pulp show about a team coming next year so that Jean they must have at least 400 production bikes coming for the public market.
LungButter wrote:
Yeah, I'd say Joe Wasson and Zane Roberts are definitely putting the motor to the test. Those dudes are flat ON IT right now in the...
Yeah, I'd say Joe Wasson and Zane Roberts are definitely putting the motor to the test. Those dudes are flat ON IT right now in the dez....

They are riding the 480 though. I notice that is what Dare is riding too. I remember an interview with Joe at some point talking about how much better he liked the 480 than the 450. I wonder if the production 450 they have access to is just a little down on power still?
Production is 430, so yeah. 6 consecutive EnduroGP titles (working on 7, hence no ISDE) says something about stock suspension and reliability too.
It’s happening 💪

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LungButter
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8/20/2021 7:37am
Production is 430, so yeah. 6 consecutive EnduroGP titles (working on 7, hence no ISDE) says something about stock suspension and reliability too. It’s happening 💪...
Production is 430, so yeah. 6 consecutive EnduroGP titles (working on 7, hence no ISDE) says something about stock suspension and reliability too.
It’s happening 💪

What does it say about reliability? They race for 2 days and then the bike gets a full going over at the race shop before the next round.

Racing and competing at the top level at 6 Days....that would say something about reliability....

Why the Beta boys afraid to line up and throw down at the most important and prestigious Enduro in the world? Tongue
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The Shop

Johnny Depp
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8/20/2021 8:13am
Production is 430, so yeah. 6 consecutive EnduroGP titles (working on 7, hence no ISDE) says something about stock suspension and reliability too. It’s happening 💪...
Production is 430, so yeah. 6 consecutive EnduroGP titles (working on 7, hence no ISDE) says something about stock suspension and reliability too.
It’s happening 💪

LungButter wrote:
What does it say about reliability? They race for 2 days and then the bike gets a full going over at the race shop before the...
What does it say about reliability? They race for 2 days and then the bike gets a full going over at the race shop before the next round.

Racing and competing at the top level at 6 Days....that would say something about reliability....

Why the Beta boys afraid to line up and throw down at the most important and prestigious Enduro in the world? Tongue
Freeman went in '19 after clinching the EnduroGP title, and promptly broke his arm on day 1. Lesson learned.
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Bearuno
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I understand that there is a '400 Sold' rule, plus a fee for Homologation listing, but, can Beta get an 'in' through the One Year Works / Prototype rule, if it still exists?
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Johnny Depp
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8/20/2021 8:44am
Bearuno wrote:
I understand that there is a '400 Sold' rule, plus a fee for Homologation listing, but, can Beta get an 'in' through the One Year Works...
I understand that there is a '400 Sold' rule, plus a fee for Homologation listing, but, can Beta get an 'in' through the One Year Works / Prototype rule, if it still exists?
AFAIK that rule is gone for a 1 year prototype exemption. You had to be in the "club".

I don't think Beta needs an exemption, they are committed to the program. DC and MX Sports have the ability to write a supplemental rule for their series, as could Feld for SX. The 400 number is much too high IMO, TM and Sherco, Alta etc. would never make the cut. It is long overdue for a change.
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LungButter
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8/20/2021 9:15am
AFAIK that rule is gone for a 1 year prototype exemption. You had to be in the "club". I don't think Beta needs an exemption, they...
AFAIK that rule is gone for a 1 year prototype exemption. You had to be in the "club".

I don't think Beta needs an exemption, they are committed to the program. DC and MX Sports have the ability to write a supplemental rule for their series, as could Feld for SX. The 400 number is much too high IMO, TM and Sherco, Alta etc. would never make the cut. It is long overdue for a change.
I dunno....I mean SX and MX at that level is the pinnacle of our sport. If you can't even produce 400 bikes to sell to the public do you really belong racing there?

I'm all for more brands being on the starting line but if you wanna play with the big boys then you need to step it up and produce some bikes to sell.

*Not trying to be a hater, good chance my next New bike in the stable will be a Sherco 2-stroke*
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Johnny Depp
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8/20/2021 9:28am
AFAIK that rule is gone for a 1 year prototype exemption. You had to be in the "club". I don't think Beta needs an exemption, they...
AFAIK that rule is gone for a 1 year prototype exemption. You had to be in the "club".

I don't think Beta needs an exemption, they are committed to the program. DC and MX Sports have the ability to write a supplemental rule for their series, as could Feld for SX. The 400 number is much too high IMO, TM and Sherco, Alta etc. would never make the cut. It is long overdue for a change.
LungButter wrote:
I dunno....I mean SX and MX at that level is the pinnacle of our sport. If you can't even produce 400 bikes to sell to the...
I dunno....I mean SX and MX at that level is the pinnacle of our sport. If you can't even produce 400 bikes to sell to the public do you really belong racing there?

I'm all for more brands being on the starting line but if you wanna play with the big boys then you need to step it up and produce some bikes to sell.

*Not trying to be a hater, good chance my next New bike in the stable will be a Sherco 2-stroke*
The production rule, although well intentioned back in the 80s, is overdue for a refresh, or scrap it. The rulebook in general is a rigged game. Technological progress on dirt bikes moves at a glacial pace. Factories still have the huge advantage over privateers. The sport and its spectators are denied exotic brands and creative builds. So yes, I disagree, As we have seen recently, not allowing any bikes over five years old is a farce also.
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LungButter
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8/20/2021 9:35am
So you think scraping the production rule would somehow lessen the gap between Privateers and Factories?

How?

That doesn't make any sense to me.
ccullins
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8/20/2021 10:15am
Bearuno wrote:
I understand that there is a '400 Sold' rule, plus a fee for Homologation listing, but, can Beta get an 'in' through the One Year Works...
I understand that there is a '400 Sold' rule, plus a fee for Homologation listing, but, can Beta get an 'in' through the One Year Works / Prototype rule, if it still exists?
The one year exemption rule has been gone for many years.
Johnny Depp
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8/20/2021 10:33am Edited Date/Time 8/20/2021 1:07pm
LungButter wrote:
So you think scraping the production rule would somehow lessen the gap between Privateers and Factories?

How?

That doesn't make any sense to me.
Remember Marty Moates? USGP win on a built production bike in the works bike era. It's about the rider more than the bike as Ryno proved. Triumph is not on the MXGP starting line working on development yet, To build 400 would be insane without testing 1st in racing. Cannondale anyone? Alta? Cobra? Service Honda 500AF? BRC? Fantic? Zero? Sur Ron? GPX? RedMoto? Aprilia? SSR? EGL? JotaGas? Bombardier? Indian? Harley? There are plenty of companies and individuals that have the knowledge and money if the system was opened up, especially with e-bikes and 2t's.

400 bikes is WAY more than you would ever need to supply supposed "privateers" or independent teams anyway. 50 would do it easy.
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LungButter
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8/20/2021 11:00am
Remember Marty Moates? USGP win on a built production bike in the works bike era. It's about the rider more than the bike as Ryno proved...
Remember Marty Moates? USGP win on a built production bike in the works bike era. It's about the rider more than the bike as Ryno proved. Triumph is not on the MXGP starting line working on development yet, To build 400 would be insane without testing 1st in racing. Cannondale anyone? Alta? Cobra? Service Honda 500AF? BRC? Fantic? Zero? Sur Ron? GPX? RedMoto? Aprilia? SSR? EGL? JotaGas? Bombardier? Indian? Harley? There are plenty of companies and individuals that have the knowledge and money if the system was opened up, especially with e-bikes and 2t's.

400 bikes is WAY more than you would ever need to supply supposed "privateers" or independent teams anyway. 50 would do it easy.
If it's about the "rider more than the bike"..... your words.....then why do "Factories still have the huge advantage over privateers." ???? .....again, your words.

Because Marty Moates won a USGP in 1980 before a lot of us were even born?

I understand you are upset Beta can't meet the standards to race at the top level in the US yet, if they keep working at it they will get there Maybe they shoulda put the R&D and funding that they put into that MX 2-stroke into a bike that could actually line up at an AMA Pro race and compete.....
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Johnny Depp
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8/20/2021 11:13am Edited Date/Time 8/20/2021 11:14am
Remember Marty Moates? USGP win on a built production bike in the works bike era. It's about the rider more than the bike as Ryno proved...
Remember Marty Moates? USGP win on a built production bike in the works bike era. It's about the rider more than the bike as Ryno proved. Triumph is not on the MXGP starting line working on development yet, To build 400 would be insane without testing 1st in racing. Cannondale anyone? Alta? Cobra? Service Honda 500AF? BRC? Fantic? Zero? Sur Ron? GPX? RedMoto? Aprilia? SSR? EGL? JotaGas? Bombardier? Indian? Harley? There are plenty of companies and individuals that have the knowledge and money if the system was opened up, especially with e-bikes and 2t's.

400 bikes is WAY more than you would ever need to supply supposed "privateers" or independent teams anyway. 50 would do it easy.
LungButter wrote:
If it's about the "rider more than the bike"..... your words.....then why do "Factories still have the huge advantage over privateers." ???? .....again, your words. Because...
If it's about the "rider more than the bike"..... your words.....then why do "Factories still have the huge advantage over privateers." ???? .....again, your words.

Because Marty Moates won a USGP in 1980 before a lot of us were even born?

I understand you are upset Beta can't meet the standards to race at the top level in the US yet, if they keep working at it they will get there Maybe they shoulda put the R&D and funding that they put into that MX 2-stroke into a bike that could actually line up at an AMA Pro race and compete.....
Duh, the factories have all the money for the top riders. Like Star. Money talks.

There are many stories of privateer wins over the years, but they are few and far between. Rick Ryan and Justin Brayton won Daytona as privateers. The fact there are so few is proof of the system being stacked against Privateers in favor of the factories.

Many brands long gone from the scene never had a chance with the 400 limit production rule, Maico, Bultaco, Montesa, Ossa, CZ and many more were already defunct due to the Japanese wave.

I'm not mad at all about Beta, although I would love to see them next year rather than '23. They will be on the line, it's already happening. It takes a huge company to pull it off, and Beta has climbed the ladder step by step. Still, I want' others to have an easier path, Reiju and the like of exotics should be able to race if they choose to. Let the little guys in.
Don't you worry about Beta, the 2t was just sticking a toe in the water, and a 2nd at the 2t World Champs isn't a bad start.
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CKNY
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8/20/2021 11:41am
I can’t remember seeing you this triggered and defensive Johnny. You almost sound like HDR on TT.
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Johnny Depp
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8/20/2021 11:50am Edited Date/Time 8/20/2021 11:53am
CKNY wrote:
I can’t remember seeing you this triggered and defensive Johnny. You almost sound like HDR on TT.
That's only because you aren't paying close enough attention. I've never been afraid to speak up, a lot of leg humpers around here afraid of rocking the boat.
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CKNY
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8/20/2021 11:58am
CKNY wrote:
I can’t remember seeing you this triggered and defensive Johnny. You almost sound like HDR on TT.
That's only because you aren't paying close enough attention. I've never been afraid to speak up, a lot of leg humpers around here afraid of rocking...
That's only because you aren't paying close enough attention. I've never been afraid to speak up, a lot of leg humpers around here afraid of rocking the boat.
Speaking up about what? That a non production bike might be having issues and not proven itself? What’s the big deal? Beta doesn’t rush anything, hence the mainstream release in 23. They know what the bike isn’t ready. Big deal.
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Johnny Depp
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8/20/2021 12:03pm
CKNY wrote:
I can’t remember seeing you this triggered and defensive Johnny. You almost sound like HDR on TT.
That's only because you aren't paying close enough attention. I've never been afraid to speak up, a lot of leg humpers around here afraid of rocking...
That's only because you aren't paying close enough attention. I've never been afraid to speak up, a lot of leg humpers around here afraid of rocking the boat.
CKNY wrote:
Speaking up about what? That a non production bike might be having issues and not proven itself? What’s the big deal? Beta doesn’t rush anything, hence...
Speaking up about what? That a non production bike might be having issues and not proven itself? What’s the big deal? Beta doesn’t rush anything, hence the mainstream release in 23. They know what the bike isn’t ready. Big deal.
Production rules. It's long been a subject near to my heart. The vast majority here never post, just lurk. The majority also believes 2t's should be allowed, at least with equal displacement. This discussion has turned from Beta a while ago.
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aees
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8/20/2021 1:10pm
aees wrote:
It is a shit bike, and the issues they have had with it i would say away for another year or cycle. Bikes cutting out in...
It is a shit bike, and the issues they have had with it i would say away for another year or cycle. Bikes cutting out in the air, unreliable. Chassi compliance issues.

Bike is not ready for MX.
What are you smoking? The bike has 4 top 10 MXGP finishes already, and the season is only half over.
Yeah just watch current GP rider on it, could not hide his frustration last GP he had to DNF.

Sponsored and factory enduro riders refuse to ride it in MX (big jumps), since it is so unreliable.

So no, bike is not ready for MX, even less if you are a non factory rider.
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aees
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8/20/2021 1:14pm
What are you smoking? The bike has 4 top 10 MXGP finishes already, and the season is only half over.
CKNY wrote:
Maybe he knows something you don’t.
So Canada only huh? Thanks for the misleading info. As for aees, he's bought a new KTM for the last 8 years as per his profile...
So Canada only huh? Thanks for the misleading info.

As for aees, he's bought a new KTM for the last 8 years as per his profile, and he's just trying to throw imaginary rocks at the new kid in town, who's going to bang his girlfriend.
Testes all bikes there is, will switch if I find a better match. TM and Beta however, is a no go. TM 2020 250 2t was the worst piece of shit i have ever ridden, my 2t Suzukis 1999-2002 was miles better.

Beta, due to the bike is just not reliable and ready. Five it a year or two at least.
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aees
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8/20/2021 1:24pm
Beta knows what they’re doing look at all the off road races they’re winning and that’s harder on engines then mx racing like for over heating...
Beta knows what they’re doing look at all the off road races they’re winning and that’s harder on engines then mx racing like for over heating and engine failure, 3 hours of straight wide open racing . And they will have a team here in mx next year if you listen to what everyone is saying !! Steve and JT were talking about it on the pulp show about a team coming next year so that Jean they must have at least 400 production bikes coming for the public market.
LungButter wrote:
Yeah, I'd say Joe Wasson and Zane Roberts are definitely putting the motor to the test. Those dudes are flat ON IT right now in the...
Yeah, I'd say Joe Wasson and Zane Roberts are definitely putting the motor to the test. Those dudes are flat ON IT right now in the dez....

They are riding the 480 though. I notice that is what Dare is riding too. I remember an interview with Joe at some point talking about how much better he liked the 480 than the 450. I wonder if the production 450 they have access to is just a little down on power still?
Of course they are pinning it, it's like 48hp on the 500, and 40-43 on 430 😄
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Johnny Depp
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8/20/2021 1:59pm
CKNY wrote:
Maybe he knows something you don’t.
So Canada only huh? Thanks for the misleading info. As for aees, he's bought a new KTM for the last 8 years as per his profile...
So Canada only huh? Thanks for the misleading info.

As for aees, he's bought a new KTM for the last 8 years as per his profile, and he's just trying to throw imaginary rocks at the new kid in town, who's going to bang his girlfriend.
aees wrote:
Testes all bikes there is, will switch if I find a better match. TM and Beta however, is a no go. TM 2020 250 2t was...
Testes all bikes there is, will switch if I find a better match. TM and Beta however, is a no go. TM 2020 250 2t was the worst piece of shit i have ever ridden, my 2t Suzukis 1999-2002 was miles better.

Beta, due to the bike is just not reliable and ready. Five it a year or two at least.
Reliability must not be important to you if you keep buying Austrian bikes. TPI's eating pistons, 450's tossing cam chains and shredding rear wheels, EXC's with no power and overheating and vibrating, electrical connectors that don't match, flameouts and snappy power delivery, I could go on.
At least my stuff is real, and on this thread is an IG of some fast moto action on a 62hp 480.
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xrmark
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8/20/2021 2:15pm
Duh, the factories have all the money for the top riders. Like Star. Money talks. There are many stories of privateer wins over the years, but...
Duh, the factories have all the money for the top riders. Like Star. Money talks.

There are many stories of privateer wins over the years, but they are few and far between. Rick Ryan and Justin Brayton won Daytona as privateers. The fact there are so few is proof of the system being stacked against Privateers in favor of the factories.

Many brands long gone from the scene never had a chance with the 400 limit production rule, Maico, Bultaco, Montesa, Ossa, CZ and many more were already defunct due to the Japanese wave.

I'm not mad at all about Beta, although I would love to see them next year rather than '23. They will be on the line, it's already happening. It takes a huge company to pull it off, and Beta has climbed the ladder step by step. Still, I want' others to have an easier path, Reiju and the like of exotics should be able to race if they choose to. Let the little guys in.
Don't you worry about Beta, the 2t was just sticking a toe in the water, and a 2nd at the 2t World Champs isn't a bad start.
If you think that factory Honda with bullfrog stickers on it was “privateer” you’re crazy. Brayton did not win Daytona as a privateer. Rick Ryan sure. You’re really trying to justify this beta lol at this point I hope you are part owner or something. Shit is wild lol
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Stewyeww
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8/20/2021 2:50pm
xrmark wrote:
If you think that factory Honda with bullfrog stickers on it was “privateer” you’re crazy. Brayton did not win Daytona as a privateer. Rick Ryan sure...
If you think that factory Honda with bullfrog stickers on it was “privateer” you’re crazy. Brayton did not win Daytona as a privateer. Rick Ryan sure. You’re really trying to justify this beta lol at this point I hope you are part owner or something. Shit is wild lol
If he isn't making a couple of bucks of Beta he has to be their #1 fan boy.
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Johnny Depp
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8/20/2021 3:01pm
Duh, the factories have all the money for the top riders. Like Star. Money talks. There are many stories of privateer wins over the years, but...
Duh, the factories have all the money for the top riders. Like Star. Money talks.

There are many stories of privateer wins over the years, but they are few and far between. Rick Ryan and Justin Brayton won Daytona as privateers. The fact there are so few is proof of the system being stacked against Privateers in favor of the factories.

Many brands long gone from the scene never had a chance with the 400 limit production rule, Maico, Bultaco, Montesa, Ossa, CZ and many more were already defunct due to the Japanese wave.

I'm not mad at all about Beta, although I would love to see them next year rather than '23. They will be on the line, it's already happening. It takes a huge company to pull it off, and Beta has climbed the ladder step by step. Still, I want' others to have an easier path, Reiju and the like of exotics should be able to race if they choose to. Let the little guys in.
Don't you worry about Beta, the 2t was just sticking a toe in the water, and a 2nd at the 2t World Champs isn't a bad start.
xrmark wrote:
If you think that factory Honda with bullfrog stickers on it was “privateer” you’re crazy. Brayton did not win Daytona as a privateer. Rick Ryan sure...
If you think that factory Honda with bullfrog stickers on it was “privateer” you’re crazy. Brayton did not win Daytona as a privateer. Rick Ryan sure. You’re really trying to justify this beta lol at this point I hope you are part owner or something. Shit is wild lol
That only helps my case, but I wasn't the one that called him privateer 1st. Less privateers means more factory dominance. New thread started that is more Homo rule and less Beta, this isn't about Beta.
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Mark Hite
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8/21/2021 4:14pm
I guess I am missing something, but I don't understand all the hate towards Beta. I think they have taken a realistic approach to this project. How many failures has any of the big 5 (or 4 if you drop Suzuki) had during testing outside of public view? I am sure there are tails to be told, and many never to be told. I look at the Aprilia MotoGP project and remember all the garbage that was talked about it, now a few years later they have signed Maverick Vinales and they have a very competitive bike, that's what hard work and passion can do.

As far the 400 bike threshold, that seems a little unrealistic if your intention is grow the sport, it is counter productive. I think they should allow pre-production motorcycles to compete, as long as a timetable is agreed upon for production. That production could be 50 TM 450's but as long as it is available to the public who cares. Because I seriously doubt TM is going get in bidding war with Honda for Ken Roczen's services, and if they do, they either robbed a BIG bank or that is one hell of a motorcycle.

I look at it this way, Haas F1 team is not the least bit competitive, but there are 190 people getting paid for doing something they love that's win if there ever was one.
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8/21/2021 6:38pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2021 6:39pm
aees wrote:
It is a shit bike, and the issues they have had with it i would say away for another year or cycle. Bikes cutting out in...
It is a shit bike, and the issues they have had with it i would say away for another year or cycle. Bikes cutting out in the air, unreliable. Chassi compliance issues.

Bike is not ready for MX.
What are you smoking? The bike has 4 top 10 MXGP finishes already, and the season is only half over.
aees wrote:
Yeah just watch current GP rider on it, could not hide his frustration last GP he had to DNF. Sponsored and factory enduro riders refuse to...
Yeah just watch current GP rider on it, could not hide his frustration last GP he had to DNF.

Sponsored and factory enduro riders refuse to ride it in MX (big jumps), since it is so unreliable.

So no, bike is not ready for MX, even less if you are a non factory rider.
So AP dnf at southwick must mean the yamaha yzf is a piece of shit and should not be sold to public? And I can add almost every other oems to this list. 1 dnf doesn’t mean much these are off road race machines tuned to the limits they all have dnf’s . One or two dnf’s doesn’t mean the production version is a bad machine . Do you remember the year all those procircuit kawis blew up at southwick? That didn’t mean they were bad production bikes . The race bike and production bike are 2 different animals with the race bike tuned to the limits and engines measured in few hours life spans
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