2016 HRC Team Honda CRF450RW

jhansen510
Posts
2405
Joined
2/10/2009
Location
GREENFIELD, MN US
7/25/2021 9:13pm
So cool to see this side of the curtain!
1
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
7/26/2021 6:26am
Another billet beauty to add to the bike: billet aluminum Nissin clutch master cylinder.




13
jaun
Posts
789
Joined
4/27/2021
Location
MX
7/26/2021 1:28pm
mxav8r wrote:
Another billet beauty to add to the bike: billet aluminum Nissin clutch master cylinder. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/26/503019/s1200_F6326CD0_490F_4DB5_8877_A10AA8A79D4F_1_201_a.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/26/503018/s1200_671F258D_3464_4D7E_BD5A_53C170598DA4_1_201_a.jpg[/img]
Another billet beauty to add to the bike: billet aluminum Nissin clutch master cylinder.




He where do you get the ties for the wiring on the handlebars?
kdiringer
Posts
154
Joined
4/4/2019
Location
Commerce Township, MI US
7/28/2021 2:46pm
mxav8r wrote:
Another billet beauty to add to the bike: billet aluminum Nissin clutch master cylinder. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/26/503019/s1200_F6326CD0_490F_4DB5_8877_A10AA8A79D4F_1_201_a.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/26/503018/s1200_671F258D_3464_4D7E_BD5A_53C170598DA4_1_201_a.jpg[/img]
Another billet beauty to add to the bike: billet aluminum Nissin clutch master cylinder.




jaun wrote:
He where do you get the ties for the wiring on the handlebars?
They’re a Ducati part, rubber wiring ties.
5

The Shop

mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
7/29/2021 7:35am
jaun wrote:
He where do you get the ties for the wiring on the handlebars?
Hello Jaun
Yes the left outer case is a works magnesium case setup for an hydraulic clutch slave cylinder.
The rubber straps are indeed from Ducati as previous poster said. They are called "Clamp, Rubber" and come in various sizes. I purchased them from Ducati Omaha.
3
Tokyo_Tiddler
Posts
2120
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Somewhere in, NJ US
7/29/2021 8:01am
Very impressed with that shift drum.. never saw one like that before.. CNC machined!
1
7/29/2021 9:57pm
I just got a new shift drum today for my KTM 125 and it appears to be CNC which I thought was pretty cool, definitely not anywhere near as trick as the one in that HRC engine.
1
rwj500
Posts
130
Joined
5/29/2019
Location
GB
7/30/2021 1:30pm
Very impressed with that shift drum.. never saw one like that before.. CNC machined!
hi mike.
do you have any pictures of your hrc 250 engine ?
Tokyo_Tiddler
Posts
2120
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Somewhere in, NJ US
7/31/2021 6:55am
Traditionally a heavy metal like tungsten or mallory is used to balance cranks. With a really well balanced crank there will be less vibration and engine will feel smoother. It also helps with engine/ crank bearing longevity. These inserts don't appear to be removable like the HRC cranks of the 80's and 90's which had circlips to change the weight of the insert and effect the crank inertia and therefore the power characteristics of the engine. I think there is even a video on Youtube explaining the removable weights on the old HRC cranks.
2
matt.3150
Posts
714
Joined
3/20/2015
Location
San Jose, CA US
8/1/2021 6:13pm
Traditionally a heavy metal like tungsten or mallory is used to balance cranks. With a really well balanced crank there will be less vibration and engine...
Traditionally a heavy metal like tungsten or mallory is used to balance cranks. With a really well balanced crank there will be less vibration and engine will feel smoother. It also helps with engine/ crank bearing longevity. These inserts don't appear to be removable like the HRC cranks of the 80's and 90's which had circlips to change the weight of the insert and effect the crank inertia and therefore the power characteristics of the engine. I think there is even a video on Youtube explaining the removable weights on the old HRC cranks.
My 09 is a CRF450RW engine also, so it more similar to yours but HRC made all the parts didn’t have outside companies like pankl make the ti rod. Billet crank that balanced with tungsten, the rod is stock. The head is stock but machined inside and out, so it looks pretty trick, complete works tranny, gears, forks gear drum are all billet. The cases have extra machining to save weight. The 09 I need to put together yet, right know i’m trying to get my 08 done.
Also working on 2 factory 2002 CR125 last two engine in existed. One is being built just like what Fonseca rode, the other is getting some modern modifications. Gear sensor, TPI, powerjet, had a crank made by the guy who build the factory cranks for the KTM 125 that race in MXGP EMX125 class, so it balanced and also has a Titanium long rod. Going to run a work Mikuni Sandcast carb, a modern programmable custom igntion. Custom wiring harness to add in all the new features. But should be good.


11
Premix
Posts
1505
Joined
1/5/2014
Location
AS US
8/3/2021 3:51am
Such a good read. Nice work.
2
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
8/3/2021 7:03pm
Great work, sick bike
1
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
8/4/2021 7:27pm
matt.3150
Thank you for sharing and providing some great info and photos! Really looking forward to seeing your amazing builds complete.
Tokyo_Tiddler
Posts
2120
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Somewhere in, NJ US
8/4/2021 8:36pm
Until now, even the leading MX magazines didn't share this level of detail with the public. Now we can see it all and so interesting.. you can see the carefully machined parts of the sandcasting and how sections inside the cases have a coating applied. Lots of details in these factory parts.
3
Yeti831
Posts
1348
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
UT US
8/4/2021 9:20pm
mxav8r wrote:
Another billet beauty to add to the bike: billet aluminum Nissin clutch master cylinder. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/26/503019/s1200_F6326CD0_490F_4DB5_8877_A10AA8A79D4F_1_201_a.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/26/503018/s1200_671F258D_3464_4D7E_BD5A_53C170598DA4_1_201_a.jpg[/img]
Another billet beauty to add to the bike: billet aluminum Nissin clutch master cylinder.




jaun wrote:
He where do you get the ties for the wiring on the handlebars?
Ktm part number for you. The 75mm fits bars perfectly 👍

7
jaun
Posts
789
Joined
4/27/2021
Location
MX
8/6/2021 5:42pm
perfect Cheers!
Yeti831
Posts
1348
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
UT US
8/6/2021 9:04pm
mxav8r wrote:
From God knows when through 2016, Honda HRC used a steel shift lever with a "Parkerized" finish on the CR/CRF's. What is a Parkerized finish? From...
From God knows when through 2016, Honda HRC used a steel shift lever with a "Parkerized" finish on the CR/CRF's. What is a Parkerized finish? From Wikipedia:
"Parkerizing is a method of protecting a steel surface from corrosion and increasing its resistance to wear through the application of a chemical phosphate conversion coating"

The HRC steel lever is actually considerably heavier than the OEM lever. But a lot stronger!

From 2017 through the present, HRC switched to a CNC machined titanium shift lever.

HRC Steel and Titanium shift levers



If you look closely to the second picture above, you'll see the traditional HRC "EK--" marking followed by the #101. I have always assumed the number 101 (or whatever number was used) referred to the length of the lever. But as you can see, 101 is on both levers and the titanium one is longer.

My guess is that the number actually refers to the distance between the lever tip and the foot peg. Since the 2017 and beyond CRF's have the shift spline closer to the foot peg. The lever needs to be longer to maintain the "101" Peg/Tip distance as marked.

When I bought the HRC titanium lever I wasn't sure it would fit (bend wise, knew it would be longer) my 2016 CRF. Figured worst case I could use it for a future build. Pleasant surprise it fit fine. Just longer for the reason discussed before.

HRC titanium lever on my bike



HRC machining, as usual, is amazing


Now of course the lever tip/foot peg distance is more than the HRC steel or OEM lever but since I wear size 14 boots this work perfectly in my favor!

I don’t suppose you have a spare longer titanium shifter you’d like to sell or know where to get one?

I kinda think it’d be a great addition to my bike now 😎
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
8/7/2021 8:31pm Edited Date/Time 8/7/2021 8:32pm
As some of you can tell, I deleted my post and pictures of my CRF450RW HRC engine.

First, let me say, no one MADE or ASKED me to delete my posts. It's my engine and I can post and share what I want (well I guess the Moderators have the last say and they played no role in my decision).

Second, I apologize to those that took the time to post about what I shared and now my post are gone...

Long story short on why I deleted the engine stuff: The sharing of the engine details was causing a potential "issue" for a friend. Until this "issue" is cleared up I felt it best to remove my post about the engine.







9
1
8/8/2021 11:36am
mxav8r wrote:
As some of you can tell, I deleted my post and pictures of my CRF450RW HRC engine. First, let me say, no one MADE or ASKED...
As some of you can tell, I deleted my post and pictures of my CRF450RW HRC engine.

First, let me say, no one MADE or ASKED me to delete my posts. It's my engine and I can post and share what I want (well I guess the Moderators have the last say and they played no role in my decision).

Second, I apologize to those that took the time to post about what I shared and now my post are gone...

Long story short on why I deleted the engine stuff: The sharing of the engine details was causing a potential "issue" for a friend. Until this "issue" is cleared up I felt it best to remove my post about the engine.







That’s very respectable and I’d imagine everyone should understand. You post enough info to where I definitely don’t feel like I’m losing out on anything in your build thread lol
2
jaun
Posts
789
Joined
4/27/2021
Location
MX
8/8/2021 9:46pm
mxav8r wrote:
As some of you can tell, I deleted my post and pictures of my CRF450RW HRC engine. First, let me say, no one MADE or ASKED...
As some of you can tell, I deleted my post and pictures of my CRF450RW HRC engine.

First, let me say, no one MADE or ASKED me to delete my posts. It's my engine and I can post and share what I want (well I guess the Moderators have the last say and they played no role in my decision).

Second, I apologize to those that took the time to post about what I shared and now my post are gone...

Long story short on why I deleted the engine stuff: The sharing of the engine details was causing a potential "issue" for a friend. Until this "issue" is cleared up I felt it best to remove my post about the engine.







Gald i got to see the beauty before it was removed.
3
luke11
Posts
679
Joined
6/4/2018
Location
Worcestershire GB
8/11/2021 9:25am
I’ve just spent half hour of my life going through these 10 pages.
Don’t regret one second, what an incredible build!
Can you please reach out to vital and get Ping to do a ride and review when it’s done!
1
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
8/11/2021 7:08pm
luke11 wrote:
I’ve just spent half hour of my life going through these 10 pages. Don’t regret one second, what an incredible build! Can you please reach out...
I’ve just spent half hour of my life going through these 10 pages.
Don’t regret one second, what an incredible build!
Can you please reach out to vital and get Ping to do a ride and review when it’s done!
Thank you glad you've enjoyed the build thread. Maybe after the bike is complete I'll think about doing something like you've suggested 👍
2
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
8/11/2021 7:48pm
Going to share a couple pictures of the HRC external oil cooler. What makes this thing so trick is the use of titanium for the tubing and the tubing mounting brackets. Also the intricate bending of the tubing to fit on the bike.

First here's a picture of the oil cooler mounted on Akira Narita 2015 HRC CRF450RW (Vitalmx/ML512)


And here is mine after a little clean up




Need to have my Febur radiators modified to mount the cooler. Just two tabs/brackets will need to be fabricated and welded to the radiator body.

I will get a couple of pictures up showing where/how the oil lines mount to the works magnesium stator cover soon.
11
matt.3150
Posts
714
Joined
3/20/2015
Location
San Jose, CA US
8/11/2021 9:11pm
Super impressive Crf450rw, You done an epic job, and in a fairly short time! Very stoked for you.
One day I’ll put up some of my bikes. But great work.!!
2
Yeti831
Posts
1348
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
UT US
8/11/2021 9:50pm
I thought I was done building my ‘21 CRF, and now because of you I’m buying parts on mastercross 😂

I swear building a bike is like moving into a house: you’re never done.
4
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
10/24/2021 2:00pm
matt.3150 wrote:
Super impressive Crf450rw, You done an epic job, and in a fairly short time! Very stoked for you. One day I’ll put up some of my...
Super impressive Crf450rw, You done an epic job, and in a fairly short time! Very stoked for you.
One day I’ll put up some of my bikes. But great work.!!
Thank You very much Matt! You have had a hand in this build and I appreciate all the advice and information you've provided.
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
10/24/2021 3:01pm
I realize I have not updated this thread in awhile. The build is still progressing. I have completely torn down the HRC 450RW engine and in the process of rebuilding. The engine is in great shape.

For the rebuild I have replaced all the case bearing, seals, and of course gaskets. Along with various random OEM parts (not many to be had inside this engine!) The only major parts, of this engine, that are OEM are the cylinder, right center case, and the valve cover. All these components have been replaced with new parts.

- New OEM cylinder, the cylinder that came with the engine was in good shape but I found a great deal on a new one.
- New right side center case, same deal... found a new one for cheap.
- New valve cover. Just going to put the new one from my stock engine.

The only other major part getting replaced is the piston, rings, and wrist pin. No, these parts are not OEM parts... They are JE piston parts! That is what was in the engine. Apparently, JE Pistons was used by HRC in MXGP and AMA bikes during this time period. And the piston is a stock compression ratio one. Pretty interesting!

New JE Piston and DLC coated wrist pin


I had the cylinder and right center case vapor blasted by Premier Vapor Blasting of Georgia
They did a great job and I HIGHLY recommend them for you blasting needs.

Love the contrast of the works left sand cast coated case and the vapor blasted OEM one



I'll get a picture of the cylinder up soon as I get it on the engine.

More to come along with some new (at least to me) knowledge (and parts) about the HRC bikes and the throttle body...




13
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
12/10/2021 11:45am
Apologize for the slow updates... I have been just slowly rebuilding the engine in between changing diapers (not mine.. my baby) and work.

But in the mean time I have also been working on figuring out what HRC used for the throttle body. It was most certainly not the stock OEM unit, let me explain ( Everything below is just conjecture on my part and I have no inside knowledge. So if someone out there does, please chime in!).

I first noticed that the 2015 - 2016 HRC bikes had the condenser/rectifier moved from the stock location (mounted on and below the throttle body)...

Stock location - 2014 Trey Canard Team Honda CRF450R


...to a custom mount attached to the frame/ECU bracket (HRC MXGP bikes) or to the engine case (USA Team Honda)

2015 HRC CRF450RW


2016 Team Honda CRF450R - Canard


Why the move? Because Team Honda/HRC are using a throttle body with a bottom mounted Fuel Injector nozzle (stock is top mounted). No longer allowing the condenser/rectifier to be bolted to the bottom of the throttle body. And in fact I believe they have been using this type of throttle body as recently as 2020!
Has this EVER been mentioned anywhere???

The use of an under-mounted fuel injector becomes obvious when you really zoom in and begin to take notice of some other details. Such as a the fuel line in a totally different location and going to the bottom of the throttle body.

2016 Team Honda - Fuel Line in red box


2015 HRC CRF450RW - Fuel Line in red box


2020 Team Honda - Justin Brayton (this generation bike layout makes it way less obvious. But look at the red boxed area... there is fuel line and what looks like the mount for the injector)


Will post more about this and what big clue my HRC works engine provides on the type of throttle body Honda/HRC has been using.










5
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
12/10/2021 5:07pm Edited Date/Time 12/11/2021 6:49pm
So what type of throttle body were they using? I believe it was the KTM 44mm (Honda stock size is 46mm) under-mount fuel injector throttle body. KTM 250/350/450 use a 44mm.

The use of this KTM throttle body was a common modification at the time (2015-2020) on other brands 250F's. In fact Twisted Development Racing used to offer this as bolt on package for 250F's

Twisted Development



Why do I think that's what HRC used on their 450's?
Because of this...




... a HRC throttle body manifold designed for the CRF450RW head and the 44mm Keihin throttle body.

Comparison between HRC and Honda OEM


As you can tell, the main difference between the two is the throttle body side alignment notch orientation and the HRC example having less of a curve.

And wouldn't you know it... the HRC manifold has a notch that aligns with a KTM 44mm throttle body


Next up, the modifications necessary to get this KTM throttle body working on my CRF450RW
9
mxav8r
Posts
602
Joined
10/26/2006
Location
Atl, GA US
12/13/2021 6:04pm
Little update on the engine build... almost finished. I need to rebuild/install the cylinder head, right side crankcase/clutch cover, gear position sensor, and water pump cover. Getting close to frame install! 👍🙏🏻



12

Post a reply to: 2016 HRC Team Honda CRF450RW

The Latest