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2) 450s too fast? What a joke. Have any of you ridden a modern street legal liter sport bike? Makes a 450 seem like a tricycle for your kids to ride around on.
You are correct. My 06 gsxr 1000 would go 102 in first gear.
Also needs to be mentioned that a 450 carries most of it's weight much much higher in the frame than a 2 stroke meaning that when both bikes throw you at equal speed it's the equivalent of a 16oz hammer hitting a nail (250 2 stroke) vs. A sledge hammer hitting a nail at the same velocityt (450f) which one drives the nail in farther?..........When a 450 throws you to the ground it seems to be much more violent than I have even been slammed on a 250 2 stroke plus the 450's tend to resist direction changes due to inertia and engine design
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and some pros still turn faster laps on a 500, the yhave limite dtim eon, ,
than on thier own 250f or 450 bikes
it doesnt prove anything or disprove anything.
as some ar eslower as well?
there have always been 125 or 250 specialists?
what makes you guys always think "one" bike style or displacement,
is better for any certain rider? particularly at the pro level?
some guys are better faster and yes in more control, on 450's ,
others on 250F's,
some are better off on other bikes.
racing injuries are a resul tof a million factors..
ofte njust random accident..
but the amount of times you could cntribute the injury directly to the bikes displacement are pretty rare.
plenty of guys are hurt in the 250F class?
this whole 450 theory is odd to me.
RV injury was not related to bike? its an old injury he certainly aquired on a smaller displacement bike and now reinjuried.?
MA? he hit a slick spot on the track and fence post?
certainly would have been hauling the maIL on any bike.
i guess last i'd point out that the premeir class typically has the fastest riders and the highest amount of pressure to win.
not that thw injury rate is higherm bu tit wouldnt be a shock if it was and not be bike related in any way.
maybe the *level of rider* related..but thats datable as well
we ca ntry and make things as saf eas possible,
but maybe racing MX or SX is dangerous, unpredictable and you can and will get injuried,
its not *if* ,its *when*
name any pro rider thats never been hurt
was it the bike?
pretty unlikely
.
Talk to anyone that has owned both a 250F and a 450 to find out which bike is cheaper to race. HINT: It's not the 250F.
Biggest thing the US could do to make the tracks safer is to take a look at the Canadian National MX tracks.....now those are true MX tracks
1. Ok, you don't want the sport to grow? That's fine. Your points are old have been discussed to death in other threads. But one comment I will make is that for the sport to survive, it needs to grow. That is, unless, you want to see all tracks disappear because of noise or all our trails disappear... There is power in numbers. Our numbers need to grow so we have more power.
2. I don't think 450's are too fast. If you don't want to go fast, don't twist the throttle. As for your literbike comment... What? How could compare the two? Plus, there is talk that liter bikes are too big. Most people have no business being on a liter bike in the first place. If it doesn't scare the shit out of you, you aren't twisting the throttle.
3. That statement just shows your ignorance. No, novices aren't holding the throttle open over large portions of the track. If they are, they are stuck in first. Most people, even if they think they are, aren't close to holding it at full throttle.
4. Some redeeming value to this answer... so yeah, I agree with you here.
bullshit...you have no mx knowledge.
and bullshit....
If you say so.......
Pit Row
Someone said each crash has a million different factors, and that you can't link it to engine size...
I agree, every crash does have a million different factors. What a Sociologist would do is step back and look at the big picture. I'm talking about statistical information. Are more pro's getting hurt since the 450 take over? I'd say so, because it sure as hell seems like it (but that's just my opinion and 6-time AMA Champion Jeff Stanton). What wouldn't be my opinion though is data & statistics.
To make the injury rate indisputable, we could gather some data from years past. Maybe compare injury rates from 80's, 90's, and 2000's. Like you said, there will always be injuries, and anyone who throws a leg over a foam seat must understand that.
However, if the injury rates are rising, we must ask ourselves why? Then compare and contrast what has changed over the generations. It is possible that this generation of professionals just suck, therefore they can't keep it on two wheels. It is possible that the tracks are more technical than ever. It is possible that suspension has drastically increased since around 2006, causing riders to go faster and injure themselves more. I doubt it's the tracks though. Supercross tracks were technical as hell during the McGrath/Carmichael era, yet the bikes were slower...
The level of the sport has increased. Riders are going faster than ever. This has to do with skill level, and engine displacement. If it had nothing to do with engine displacement, then we would see a lot of guys out there on 250cc 2-strokes, but we obviously don't since they are slower.
Two things
1) Guess you missed Lawrence's test where he went faster on a 250 two stroke.....
2) The rules require a 250 two stroke to race against a 450 four stroke
and a 144cc two stroke against a 250F. This is why you don't see 250cc two strokes in professional racing...it's not because they're slow, it's because they haven't made the rules equitable.
At least you didn't say anything about Novices going wide open on their 450s........or a call to build 350s.
450s are the privateer's dream bike....dial in the suspension, throw a pipe on, and your ready to go race a National or a SX. 350s will NEVER happen (save KTM) and would only increase the cost of racing.
The only area I can relate to your point is kids going from small bikes to a 250F. In this case displacement does matter and is why I support 125s and am stoked the Euros have a class for them next year.
My personal opinion-Track design has way more impact on safety than displacement. CCs play a role in crashes just not to the extent I feel you are making it out to be. Hope you have a good weekend!
So don't blame the 450's, blame the talent level! This is a professional sport where they make MILLIONS of dollars to race bikes, this wasnt supposed to be EASY, was it?
So when things go wrong, people do everything within their mental ability to find something to blame to justify things to themselves. This sport isnt easy or all of us would be out there doing it. The riders ALL assume the risk and ride agaisnt it. Its like AJ said, its not "if", but when. If you can't handle that fact, don't ride or race.
"Talent's" better? How do you figure? Better breeding?
It's training and bikes. The "talent" out there is likely the same it ever was. But, when you grow up on bikes that are modern MX machines, it's much different than training on a steel framed bike with 4" of suspension that looks like it was manufactured by Craftsman.
Personally, it seems like more riders are getting injured. But, communication is more open than ever so... who knows...
Still about the GPs, the problem of injured riders is even worse in that series because there are just not enough good riders to replace those who get injured (De Reuver, Mackenzie, Melotte, Pourcel, Ramon, Strijbos) ...so you end up having a 28 (twentyeight) riders line up in the MX1 (as opposed to the 40 riders line up at the Nationals).
I read somewhere (the article on RacerX by Adam Wheeler?) though, that next year KTM will field a 350cc bike with linkage.
Post a reply to: More of the Industries Top are Realizing the 450cc is TOO MUCH!!!