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77
Joined
3/31/2019
Location
Simi Valley, CA, USA
Edited Date/Time
6/24/2021 8:15am
Best suspension settings for 140lb 15-year-old on 2015 FC250?
Turn the volume up until your ears bleed, then back it down 1/2 a number.
Seriously- set the rear sag first. (Google it if you aren’t “all over it”. It’s not simple, but easy enough - try and “understand it”, to remove the variables/errors)
Set the fork air pressure from the manual, then use how much travel is being used, and rider preference to adjust from there.
Then
Tune out issues/complaints - eg “Forks are jarring” - reduce comp damp. “Running wide when I get on the gas out of a turn” - increase LS Shock comp damp.
THEN
Make relatively large changes on one clicker, and seek rider feedback
I have a 140lb kid on an FC350 and that's all we did. Sag has to be right. Fork is easy with the air spring.
Hammer 663s
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Static sag V Race sag. It’s important.
If you have the time, and motivation:
Start in the “middle” or stock.
Set the compression adjuster 5 clicks or more, more “open” have your rider spin a few laps.
Get feed back. Then “Close” it 10 clicks or more. Spin a few laps…..
Google this “ motocross suspension set up information” - videos etc.
There is a guide that is comprehensive. It asks you to ride a flat turn, increasing the comp damp until the bike runs wide, etc - depends how much time and effort you want to put in. (To both getting it right, and understanding it for the future.)
MX suspension set up.
All taken from Ride Concepts INC setup giudes.
Spring Rates and Tyres
Motorcycle suspension uses springs to hold the bike and rider at the proper height and position.
The spring rate, or "stiffness" of these springs needs to be correct for the bike,
rider weight, rider height, ability, and application.
These springs are designed to have a certain amount of sag, with the rider on the bike. This is absolutely crucial!
Most dirtbikes role off the showroom floor with an un-ballanced combination of suspension springs. Some brand new dirtbikes come equipped with very poor performing springs as well.
Example: If you are a 200 pound vet rider on a brand new RM125, you will absolutely need to install stiffer springs, front and rear.
This bike was designed to be riden by a 150 pound rider.
Having too soft of a spring rate makes a bike sag more than it is designed to. If this happens, the suspension will feel stiff, and soft, AT THE SAME TIME. The small bumps won't be absorbed properly, due to the increased spring preload. The large bumps will cause the bike to bottom easily, due to the lack of overall bottoming resistance and available travel.
Having the incorrect spring rates will always make the bike handle poorly,
and DANGEROUSLY!
You could have the best motorcycle on earth, but if it has the wrong springs installed,
it will never handle the way it was originally designed to.
The majority of off-road motorcycles have poor overall chassis set-up. This is whether they are new or used, regardless of displacement/plastic colour, or how cool and flashy the stickers are!
One of the major differences between a beginners's bike and a factory rider's bike is the knowledge of the person who wrenches on it.
There are a lot of handling problems associated with incorrect chassis set-up. The most common problem is incorrect race sag/free sag. The proper amount of race sag for a full sized japanese motocross bike is 95-100mm. The proper amount of free sag is 15-25mm. KTM's can run as low as 110mm race 35/40mm free sag. Contrary to popular belief, 2mm difference in race sag makes a dramatic difference in overall handling!
Step 1: Put bike on a stand with both wheels off the ground.
Step 2: Take a tape measure and measure the FULLY EXTENDED length of the rear suspension. This is done easiest by measuring from the rear axle to a spot on the rear fender, THAT IS DIRECTLY ABOVE THE AXLE. I usually put a small piece of tape on the fender and leave it there as a consistent reference point. DO NOT MEASURE FROM THE REAR AXLE TO THE SEAT BOLT, AS THIS USUALLY ISN'T EXACTLY VERTICAL. Like I said earlier, 2mm is a very big deal. WRITE DOWN THIS MEASURMENT!
Step 3: Put on all of your riding gear that you would normally race with. Take the bike off the stand. Have someone stand in front of the bike, holding it upright. Sit on the bike in the attack position, with your feet on the pegs.
Step 4: Have a friend pull down slightly on the rear of the bike, then SLOWLY let it come back up on its own. Measure the exact distance between the same reference points. WRITE DOWN THIS MEASUREMENT!
Step 5: Now have a friend lift up slightly on the rear of the bike, SLOWLY letting it settle. Measure between the reference points again. WRITE THIS MEASUREMENT DOWN!
The average of these two measurements is the TRUE RACE SAG. If the two measurements are more than 5mm different, the rear suspension linkage assembly is sticking and must be serviced.
If the race sag isn't between the 95-100mm range, it can be adjusted by tightening or loosening the shock spring preload with the spring's retainers.
Step 6: Stand beside the bike and hold the the bike straight up by the end of the handlebar. Have a friend slightly compress the rear suspension, then SLOWLY let it extend on its own. Measure between your reference points. WRITE DOWN THIS MEASUREMENT!
Step 7: Now slightly pull up on the rear of the bike, then SLOWLY let the rear end settle under its own weight. Once again, WRITE DOWN THIS MEASUREMENT! The average of these two numbers is the TRUE FREE SAG. As with the race sag, if the two numbers are any more than 5mm different, your linkage is sticky.
If the free sag isn't between 15-25mm, WITH THE CORRECT RACE SAG, you will need a different rear spring rate. If there isn't enough free sag, your spring is too soft. If there is too much free sag, your spring is too stiff.
IF YOU DO NOT CHECK YOUR SAG USING THIS METHOD, YOUR SAG WILL BE INCORRECT. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE BEST, MOST ACCURATE WAY TO DO IT, HANDS DOWN!
www.racetech.com is an EXTREMELY GOOD website, and it has a spring rate search. This is the only website that I have found with this. Every spring rate that RaceTech recommended that I install, had the EXACTLY perfect amout of free sag vs. race sag. TRULY GOOD STUFF!
90% of riders do not set their tire pressures properly! The majority of riders just set their pressures somewhere between 12-15 psi, and never really give it much thought. The majority of riders have absolutely no idea what tire pressure they should run, so they usually ask their buddy, who probably has even less of a clue as to the reasons why he runs what pressure! Especially if he's stubborn and says he's run 38psi for 50 years, and it always worked good...
There is only ONE METHOD to deciding the proper tire pressure. Its called RIM CLEAN... There must be up to, a max of 4mm of a clean strip to the outside of the rim where it contacts the tire. The tire rolls over the rim somewhat, keeping this part of the rim clean! ALL off-road motorcycle tires are DESIGNED to work this way! Front and rear. "D" shaped rims will require less rim clean for obvious reasons.
The tire pressure is adjusted so that the proper amount of rim clean is visable. The tire pressure will differ DRAMATICALLY from tire to tire, tube to tube, bike to bike, track to track!
A soft carcass tire with a stock tube may require 16 psi in order to have the proper rim clean. A hard carcass tire with a heavy duty tube, may only require 6psi! So if you have a stiff tire, with a stiff tube, and you have say, 15psi in it, it is almost the equivalent to running 25psi!
It is very easy to run the wrong pressure, but most people don't know how to calibrate it. If you have the proper amout of rim clean, and your buddy has the exact same bike/tires/tubes but he has no rim clean, you theoretically have say 10% MORE TRACTION! Now thats a big deal!
Tire pressure (psi) is only a number, and that number is used to calibrate the rim clean...
Steering head bearing tension is also another thing that is often overlooked.
Place the bike on the stand, with BOTH wheels the same distance off the ground. Slowly turn the bars from side to side. There must NOT be any "crunchy" feeling spots throughout the sweep. If there is, the head bearings are roasted, and must be replaced.
With the proper amount of bearing tension (and a well serviced bearing set), the wheel will stay 1"-2" OFF OF CENTER BEFORE IT FALLS TO THE STOP. If the wheel won't stay centered on its own, the bearings are too loose. If the wheel stays more than 2" off of center, without falling to the stop, the head bearings are too tight.
This is a general guideline. Most riders prefer it this way. There is absolutely no bad handling traits associated with the head bearing tension, if they are set using this procedure.
Slightly loose bearings tend to make the bike want to headshake more while braking hard, and it makes the bike feel sloppy. Slightly tight bearings tend to make the steering darty, especially on the face of a jump. Both increase arm-pump!
Bleeding the air out of your forks. 90% of riders aren't aware of the fact that your forks need to have the excess air blead from them. 1/2 the guys that are aware of it don't do it properly!
Put your bike on the stand, so that at least the front wheel is off the ground. Take a small screwdriver, and crack the bleeder screw loose from the top of each fork leg. DO NOT try and turn the damping adjuster, the bleeder screw is located to the side of the fork cap, NOT in the center. Leave this screw loose for a few seconds, until you can't hear any air hissing out, then re-install it. DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT THE BIKE BEING ON THE STAND!!! (front wheel off the ground).
It is best to do this before and after EVERY RIDE, as it will make the suspensions' performance alot more consistant, and it will lessen the chance of a blown fork seal!
If your bike is going to be tied-down in the back of a truck or trailer, for an extended period of time, It is also a great idea to bleed the forks when they are compressed. This will take the pressure off of the fork seals. Just remember to re-bleed them as soon as you un-tie the bike!!
So as far as chasis set-up goes, having proper spring rates, race sag, head bearing tension, rim clean, and freshly blead forks, is the absolutely the FIRST STEP in getting your bike to handle better. ALL of these MUST be done prior to any suspension adjustments!
NOTE: A lot of riders just ride thier bike, and never adjust anything. In a lot of ways, that is perfectly fine. Most riders only do the bare minimum required maintanence on thier bikes. Everything listed here is just a good recommendation. Having a properly set-up bike won't necessarily decrease the bike's laptimes, on it's own. But, having as many mechanical advantages as possible, will lessen the chances of INCREASING your laptimes unknowingly.
Hard Pack Setup
The absolute first step to dial in your bike is to contact us.
We will let you know if you have the correct spring rates for your rider weight.
Step 1: FORK LOW SPEED REBOUND.
The forks rebound is adjusted FIRST because there is no point in adjusting the compression if the rebound is way out of whack. This is first adjusted with the compression in the middle of the range. Therefore later compression adjustments will be WAY more accurate!
This is also the first step because the front tire usually hits an obsticle PRIOR to the rear wheel. If the forks rebound adjuster is way out of whack, it will transfer the wrong loads into the chasis at the wrong times. ALL THE OTHER ADJUSTERS ON THE BIKE WILL BE VERY HARD TO SET-UP!!!
Find a fairly flat, somewhat smooth hardpack corner, preferably one that is slightly off-camber, with no berm.
Ride through this corner several times to get used to the way the forks react coming OUT of the corner, paying attention to HOW FAST the forks go back out to the extended position, when coming OUT of the corner, ROLLING ON THE GAS.
Turn the forks rebound adjusters IN (2 click intervals) until the front of the bike wants to KEEP TURNING to the INSIDE of the corner, after the apex, when you are on the gas, trying to accellerate straight out. Having a very light grip on the bars helps to feel this.
Once you notice the front end wanting to turn MORE and LONGER than you want it to, STOP! Turn the rebound adjusters OUT (1 click intervals) until the front end comes out at a rate that you feel safe at.
WRITE DOWN THIS SETTING!!!
On the exact same corner, do the exact same thing with the fork rebound adjusters, but test how FAST you can safely stand the rebound being set at.
Turn the adjuster OUT until the forks want to drift to the OUTSIDE of the corner, while exiting, ROLLING ON THE GAS. Test different settings to come to a conclusion about how FAST and how SLOW the rebound adjuster can be.
Find a bunch of closely spaced square edged bumps, usually braking bumps. The forks must rebound fast enough to absorb every bump, otherwise the forks will stick down in their travel, and pack. Set the rebound adjuster fast enough to work in this condition, but not so fast as to effect cornering!!!
WRITE DOWN THESE SETTINGS!! This is the range of rebound clicker adjustment which you will be using. Running a rebound setting out of this range will be DANGEROUS! Both forks must have the same setting.
Step 2: FORK LOW SPEED COMPRESSION.
Ride the track and find a spot where there is some good sized, square edged bumps, braking bumps or whoops are ideal. Turn the compression adjusters IN until the forks get harsh, then go out a click. WRITE DOWN THIS SETTING.
Find the part of the track which will require the most bottoming resistance. Turn the compression adjusters OUT until slight bottoming is felt. WRITE DOWN THIS SETTING. You want your forks to bottom slightly on the worst bump, this means that you are using the maximum amount of travel, without being harsh.
WRITE DOWN THESE SETTINGS!! This is the usable range of compression clicker adjustment for your bike, for that track. Going out of this range, will result in poor/dangerous handling on that track. Both forks MUST be set at the same setting.
OIL LEVEL: Most forks have an certain amount of "compressable air space" in the top of the forks. This air space acts like an "extra spring". This is usually measured in millimeters, with the forks compressed, and the springs removed.
This "oil level" is adjustable. The more oil in the fork, the stiffer it will be in the last third of its travel, and the opposite with less oil. (More oil means less air space, the less air, the stiffer the "air spring" is).
Most forks have an adjustable range around 80mm-140mm. CHECK YOUR MANUAL FOR YOUR SPECIFIC BIKE!!! and DO NOT ADD TOO MUCH OIL!!
As a rule of thumb, 5mm in oil hight is the same as 5cc's, or 5 ml's.
Increase the oil level in 5mm increments untill the forks start to get harsh in the last third of their travel, then suck 5mm back out (with a syringe).
This effects the compression adjusters usable range. Test and adjust as required, as I said earlier.
WRITE DOWN YOUR OIL HIEGHT!!
STEP 3: SHOCK LOW SPEED REBOUND.
This adjustment on most shocks is the REBOUND/COMPRESSION adjustment. Not just rebound. Therefore the rebound is set prior to the compression.
Ride through a good set of evenly spaced whoops. Turn the rebound adjuster IN until the shock "packs", then go out a click. WRITE DOWN THIS SETTING!
Packing is when the shock hasn't rebounded back to its fully extended length before hitting the next bump. This will feel like the shock is very stiff, and the rear ride height will squat on consecutive bumps. It will be more noticable at the END of a whoop section.
Hit the same whoops, but test how FAST you can have the rebound. When the rebound is too fast it will be extremely obvious because the rear of the bike will start to swap from side to side.
Once swapping occurs, go IN one click. WRITE DOWN THIS SETTING.
This will be the usable range of shock rebound.
STEP 4: SHOCK LOW SPEED COMPRESSION: (for single adjuster shocks).
Find the same big square edged braking bumps you rode on to set up the fork's compression, and/or a good set of whoops. Turn the shock's compression clicker IN until a harsh feel is felt, then go out one click. WRITE DOWN THIS SETTING.
Find the same big bumps that required the most bottoming resistance when setting up the forks, and/or a good set of whoops. Turn the shocks compression clicker OUT until slight bottoming is felt, then go in one click. WRITE DOWN THIS SETTING.
This is the usable range of compression clicker adjustment for that bike, on that track. Test and find a happy compromise between both extremes, on all the suspenions adjusters.
Note: The shocks rebound/compression adjuster setting will effect the bikes attitude in the air. If the shock is rebounding too slow, the bike will jump nose high. If the rebound is set too fast, the bike will jump nose low. Test and adjust as nessesary, without going out of the "safe" range. Perfectly shaped table tops or boubles (without kickers) are the ideal place to dial this in.
STEP 5: SHOCK HIGH SPEED COMPRESSION (for dual compression adjuster shocks only).
Adjust the low speed compression the exact same way as you would with a "single compression adjuster" shock. This is done with the high speed compression adjuster in the middle of it's range.
The high speed compression adjuster is a big aluminum nut, located AROUND the outside of the low speed compression adjuster. It can usually be turned easily with a 14mm or 17mm box end. It is adjusted in the same basic manor as your low speed compression. In is firm, out is soft. There is usually about 3-4 turns of an adjustment range. When this adjuster is at "full stiff", or "full soft", it only needs to be LIGHTLY SEATED!
Once your low speed compression is set correctly, you can then adjust the high speeed.
The high speed compression adjuster only works on a high speed impact. A high speed impact happens any time the rear shock gets a firm spike applied to it. Example: under or overshooting a jump, big hard whoops, nasty braking bumps, etc.
Note: the high speed adjuster has NOTHING to do with how many MPH the bike is moving!
Stupid Example: If you accidently dropped your bike out of the back your truck while you were loading it, and the rear wheel hit the ground hard, this would be considered a "high speed impact". A high speed impact can occur even without the rider on the bike. The MPH of the bike has NOTHING to do with how this adjuster is set.
This adjuster helps the rider balance the shock's high speed impact absorbing characteristics to the forks. Turn this adjuster in until the shock is obviously stiffer than the forks, in large whoops or anywhere the suspension's bottoming resistance could be tested. Turn the adjuster out in 1/4 turn increments until a nice balanced feel is achieved between the front and rear wheel.
Sand Setup
Always refer to "hardpack motocross" for basic set-up procedures, as that basic procedure will apply to every type of riding.
Go to www.racetech.com and check if you have the proper spring rates, if not, install the correct springs. Always refer to "SET-UP TIPS" before adjusting anything!
Step 1: FORK REBOUND
Start by setting the fork's rebound adjuster at the "slowest safe setting" that you came up with for your hardpack set-up. For sand riding, you are never going to be setting this adjuster FASTER than this setting!
Set the adjuster using the same method you used for hardpack. Just make sure that your forks rebound fast enough to absorb the braking bumps on the track, and so the forks won't stay compressed after hitting the face of a jump, causing a "nose low" sensation in the air.
Step 2: FORK COMPRESSION
Start by setting your fork's compression adjuster to the "starting to get harsh" setting you have for hardpack. For sand riding, you are never going to be setting this adjuster SOFTER than this setting! Sand is very soft and springy. Sometimes it will require a surprisingly stiff compression clicker setting, depending on the type of sand you are racing in.
Set the adjuster using the same method you used for hardpack.
If you race in sand most of the time, it would be a great idea to get your suspension revalved for it, as stock supension valving is usually to soft. If not, your compression clickers will need to be so stiff to prevent bottoming, that harshness will become a major issue. You will have to test and see what works for you, and/or how much harshness you can stand...
You need to keep in mind that the compression adjuster adjusts the LOW SPEED DAMPING more than the HIGH SPEED DAMPING! If your adjuster is too stiff, your bike won't weight transfer properly during braking, and your bike won't squat enough on jump faces, both making the handling somewhat quirky and dangerous.
Step 3: SHOCK REBOUND
Start by setting the shock's rebound adjuster at the "slowest safe setting" that you came up with for your hardpack setup. For sand riding, you will never need to set this adjuster any FASTER than this setting.
Set this adjuster using the same method you used for hardpack. You will be surprized to see how slow the rebound needs to be to combat swapping in the whoops. Make sure the rebound isn't so slow that it makes the shock pack in the whoops, and make the bike jump "nose high".
Step 4: SHOCK COMPRESSION (single compression adjuster shock)
Start by setting the shock's compression adjuster at the "stiffest safe setting" that you came up with for your hardpack setup. For sand riding, you will never need to set this adjuster any SOFTER than this setting.
Keep in mind that this adjuster sets the LOW SPEED COMPRESSION. Set this adjuster using the same method you used for hardpack. Like setting the fork compression adjuster with stock valving, you will have to test and see how much harshness you can stand. A revalve is the only good option.
Step 5: SHOCK COMPRESSION (HIGH SPEED) IF APPL.
Adjust the low speed compression the same way as you would with a "single compression adjuster" shock. This is done with the high speed compression adjuster in the middle of it's range.
Like the hardpack procedure, turn this adjuster in until the shock is obviously stiffer than the forks. Large whoops or any place on the track that requires a fair bit of bottoming resistance is ideal. Turn the adjuster out in 1/4 turn increments until a nice balanced feel is achieved between the front and rear wheel
This is a good starting point
HOW YOUR SHOCK WORKS
And how to work with it
Confused by all the clickers and dials on your fancy new shock absorber? Join the club. In surveys conducted by the technical department of a major motorcycle manufacturer, it was discovered that only a small percentage of owners actually know what the clickers do. Here is MXA's primer on how your shock works (and what to do about it).
SHOCK SPRING PRELOAD
By turning the preload ring, the race sag can be set at 100mm (measured with the rider on board). Once the spring is adjusted to the proper race sag, the free sag needs to be checked. Free sag is measured with the rider off the bike. It is the amount of upward movement that the frame has when the bike is sitting on the ground. If free sag is less than 15mm or more than 35mm, the spring rate is incorrect.
REBOUND
Rebound damping controls how quickly the shock returns to its fully extended position after hitting a bump. If the rebound is too fast, the rear of the bike will dribble like a basketball. If the rebound damping is too slow, the rear of the bike will not return fully before the next bump is hit (this is called packing).
Turning the rebound screw in (clockwise) slows the rebound down. Turning it out speeds up the rebound. If the rear wheel kicks straight up over square-edge bumps, it normally means that the rebound damping is too fast. If the rear wheel thuds through square-edge bumps, the rebound damping is probably too slow. Increasing rebound damping will also increase compression damping to a small degree.
LOW-SPEED COMPRESSION
Low-speed compression is adjusted by a flat-bladed screwdriver and is measured in clicks out from all the way in. Low shock shaft speeds are generated by rolling whoops, landings from tabletops and most jumps.
Turning the low-speed compression adjuster in will make the shock stiffer, while turning it out will make it softer. The range of adjustment can vary by brand but normally goes from one click out to 25 clicks out.
HIGH-SPEED COMPRESSION
On most modern shocks, the high-speed compression dial is a large hex-headed dial that measures its adjustment by full turns. Don't confuse high-speed compression with the speed of the motorcycle. The term refers to the speed of the shock shaft. High shock shaft speeds come from square-edge bumps, slap-down landings and the tops of whoops.
Turning the high-speed compression clicker in will increase the damping (and allow the rear of the bike to ride higher), while turning the hex-headed dial out softens the compression damping and lowers the ride height of the rear end.
HOW YOUR FORKS WORK
And how to work with them
Unlike a shock absorber, a motorcycle fork is relatively easy to tune at home. Modern motocross forks have four do-it-yourself tuning possibilities:
(1) Compression damping-controlled by a clicker.
(2) Rebound damping-controlled by a clicker.
(3) Spring rate-adjusted by changing springs.
(4) Oil height-controlled by adding or subtracting fork oil.
Once you understand how forks work, you are on your way
to being a tuning expert.
FORK SPRING RATE
Most production motorcycles come with fairly high oil heights and soft spring rates. This is a marketing ploy to allow one set of forks to work for both small and large riders. Serious racers need to select the correct fork springs for their riding styles and track conditions.
As a rule of thumb, if you are forced to turn the compression clicker all the way in to stop the bike from bottoming, you need stiffer fork springs. Only the smallest of riders will ever need lighter fork springs.
REBOUND
Rebound damping controls how quickly the fork returns to its fully extended position after hitting a bump. If the rebound damping is too light, the fork will snap back quickly and cause the front end to porpoise across rough ground. If the rebound damping is too soft, the fork will pack because it will not have had enough time to return to its full stroke.
Turning the rebound screw in (clockwise) slows the rebound, while turning it out speeds up the rebound. Kayaba and WP forks have the rebound adjuster on the top of the fork leg. Showa forks, which are found on the CR250 and RM125, have the rebound adjuster on the bottom.
OIL HEIGHT
Motorcycle forks are filled with oil. The oil not only lubricates the internals and meters the damping via its viscous nature, but it also creates a trapped air space at the top of the fork tubes. Since motorcycle forks are not completely full of oil, the air space acts as a secondary spring. As the fork moves upward in its stroke, the air pocket is compressed. This compressed air acts like a spring to resist bottoming. By changing the height of the oil in the forks, a tuner can control how stiff the air spring will be and when it will start to take effect.
High oil heights will stop a fork from bottoming, but make it harsher in the midstroke. Low oil heights will be fluid through the midstroke, but prone to bottoming. The goal is to choose an oil height that is the perfect mix of both.
Oil height is measured in millimeters from the surface of the oil to the top of the fork leg (with the springs out and fork collapsed).
COMPRESSION
The compression clicker on
Kayaba and WP forks is found at the bottom of the fork leg (on Showa forks it is on the top). Turning the flat-bladed screwdriver slot inward (clockwise) makes the forks stiffer, and vice versa. It should be noted that the compression adjuster effects the travel from midstroke on. If your forks are bottoming, you should turn the clicker in. If the forks aren't getting full travel, turn the compression clicker out. If, however, your forks feel harsh in the first half of the stroke, the compression clicker will not make much difference.
Some info here, but not the same from what I can see.
http://www.rideconceptsinc.com/set-up/4530963818
Ride Concepts Base Valve. Works well.
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