KTM 300 XC vs. Husqvarna TX 300 vs. GG 300 EX

agn5008
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agn5008 5/18/2021 9:43am
5/18/2021 9:43am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Why do you want fuel injection?
CKNY wrote:
So he doesn’t have to dick around with a carb and mix gas most likely. Nice smooth power.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Nice smooth power? Where do you want that smooth power? Just rode baja and heard more than one KTM rider complaining about their low end power...
Nice smooth power? Where do you want that smooth power? Just rode baja and heard more than one KTM rider complaining about their low end power delivery on their TPI bikes (boggy). You can't easily tune this like a carb.

Here's a good comparison of both fuel delivery systems. As for parts availability for different brands it depends where you live. In CA it's very easy to get Beta parts now. Not sure about TM or Sherco.



Some people like the option "to dick around with a carb", especially on the trail. If you don't want to watch the whole video start watching at the 6min mark:

Some people do like “dicking” around with a carb. I don’t want to.
Black Diesel Bomber 5/18/2021 9:45am
5/18/2021 9:45am
wrc777 wrote:
Beta race editions require premix.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
They did that to save 2lbs...don't like to mix fuel then buy the non Race Edition or simply add the oil injection system to the race...
They did that to save 2lbs...don't like to mix fuel then buy the non Race Edition or simply add the oil injection system to the race edition.
agn5008 wrote:
I don’t want a beta.
That's fine, just trying to help the uninformed understand the difference between carb and TPI.
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Nate_Z
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Nate_Z 5/18/2021 9:49am
5/18/2021 9:49am
CKNY wrote:
So he doesn’t have to dick around with a carb and mix gas most likely. Nice smooth power.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Nice smooth power? Where do you want that smooth power? Just rode baja and heard more than one KTM rider complaining about their low end power...
Nice smooth power? Where do you want that smooth power? Just rode baja and heard more than one KTM rider complaining about their low end power delivery on their TPI bikes (boggy). You can't easily tune this like a carb.

Here's a good comparison of both fuel delivery systems. As for parts availability for different brands it depends where you live. In CA it's very easy to get Beta parts now. Not sure about TM or Sherco.



Some people like the option "to dick around with a carb", especially on the trail. If you don't want to watch the whole video start watching at the 6min mark:

agn5008 wrote:
Some people do like “dicking” around with a carb. I don’t want to.
That was my perspective...I have a 21 KX450 and the TPI and not having to mess with a carb and premix is spot on. Love being able to put gas in and go
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WDSRCR
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WDSRCR 5/18/2021 10:05am
5/18/2021 10:05am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Nice smooth power? Where do you want that smooth power? Just rode baja and heard more than one KTM rider complaining about their low end power...
Nice smooth power? Where do you want that smooth power? Just rode baja and heard more than one KTM rider complaining about their low end power delivery on their TPI bikes (boggy). You can't easily tune this like a carb.

Here's a good comparison of both fuel delivery systems. As for parts availability for different brands it depends where you live. In CA it's very easy to get Beta parts now. Not sure about TM or Sherco.



Some people like the option "to dick around with a carb", especially on the trail. If you don't want to watch the whole video start watching at the 6min mark:

agn5008 wrote:
Some people do like “dicking” around with a carb. I don’t want to.
Nate_Z wrote:
That was my perspective...I have a 21 KX450 and the TPI and not having to mess with a carb and premix is spot on. Love being...
That was my perspective...I have a 21 KX450 and the TPI and not having to mess with a carb and premix is spot on. Love being able to put gas in and go
Not wanting a TPI bike is why I bought my KX450XC and then my KX250XC.

Unfortunately the 4 strokes aren't working out the greatest for me and I will likely be back on a 2 stroke next year and unfortunately it will likely be a TPI bike. Hopefully the very lean bottom end bog they have been plagued with, the bad luck with crankcase pressure sensors, and the occasional top end melt-downs are solved by the time I get one.

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Tim507
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Tim507 5/18/2021 10:07am
5/18/2021 10:07am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Nice smooth power? Where do you want that smooth power? Just rode baja and heard more than one KTM rider complaining about their low end power...
Nice smooth power? Where do you want that smooth power? Just rode baja and heard more than one KTM rider complaining about their low end power delivery on their TPI bikes (boggy). You can't easily tune this like a carb.

Here's a good comparison of both fuel delivery systems. As for parts availability for different brands it depends where you live. In CA it's very easy to get Beta parts now. Not sure about TM or Sherco.



Some people like the option "to dick around with a carb", especially on the trail. If you don't want to watch the whole video start watching at the 6min mark:

agn5008 wrote:
Some people do like “dicking” around with a carb. I don’t want to.
Nate_Z wrote:
That was my perspective...I have a 21 KX450 and the TPI and not having to mess with a carb and premix is spot on. Love being...
That was my perspective...I have a 21 KX450 and the TPI and not having to mess with a carb and premix is spot on. Love being able to put gas in and go


21 KX450 and 300 TPIWoohoo
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Black Diesel Bomber 5/18/2021 10:11am
5/18/2021 10:11am
agn5008 wrote:
Some people do like “dicking” around with a carb. I don’t want to.
Nate_Z wrote:
That was my perspective...I have a 21 KX450 and the TPI and not having to mess with a carb and premix is spot on. Love being...
That was my perspective...I have a 21 KX450 and the TPI and not having to mess with a carb and premix is spot on. Love being able to put gas in and go
Tim507 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/05/18/493466/s1200_450_TPI.jpg[/img] 21 KX450 and 300 TPI:woohoo:


21 KX450 and 300 TPIWoohoo
But the best bike in the garage is the mid 90's CR.....Smile
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Nate_Z
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Nate_Z 5/18/2021 10:13am
5/18/2021 10:13am

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Nate_Z
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Nate_Z 5/18/2021 10:14am
5/18/2021 10:14am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
But the best bike in the garage is the mid 90's CR.....Smile
You must not have ridden either of these 😂
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Black Diesel Bomber 5/18/2021 10:18am
5/18/2021 10:18am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
But the best bike in the garage is the mid 90's CR.....Smile
Nate_Z wrote:
You must not have ridden either of these 😂
I've ridden them all and own several bikes. I think it's more likely you haven't ridden an old two stroke lately. Can't beat the fun factor.
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Nate_Z
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Nate_Z 5/18/2021 10:21am
5/18/2021 10:21am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
I've ridden them all and own several bikes. I think it's more likely you haven't ridden an old two stroke lately. Can't beat the fun factor.
Oh don’t get all butt hurt 😂 old two strokes are a novelty, fun for a bit as long as you like going slow
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CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 10:29am
5/18/2021 10:29am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Why do you want fuel injection?
CKNY wrote:
So he doesn’t have to dick around with a carb and mix gas most likely. Nice smooth power.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
This is exactly why I asked. You are uninformed. Do your homework as Bets’s do not require you to mix fuel. Also, some prefer to be...
This is exactly why I asked. You are uninformed. Do your homework as Bets’s do not require you to mix fuel. Also, some prefer to be able to tune their bikes, i.e. carb
😂My friend is the CDN importer for Beta, I bet I’ve ridden more Betas than you’ve taken shits. Not all Beta smokers run injection😎
CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 10:32am
5/18/2021 10:32am
Joko wrote:
Can you modify a 300 TPI to get the equivalent power output of a 250/300sx carb bike? How much power do you give away with TPI...
Can you modify a 300 TPI to get the equivalent power output of a 250/300sx carb bike? How much power do you give away with TPI? 3-5hp/tq?
They make the same power on the dyno.
Black Diesel Bomber 5/18/2021 10:32am
5/18/2021 10:32am
CKNY wrote:
So he doesn’t have to dick around with a carb and mix gas most likely. Nice smooth power.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
This is exactly why I asked. You are uninformed. Do your homework as Bets’s do not require you to mix fuel. Also, some prefer to be...
This is exactly why I asked. You are uninformed. Do your homework as Bets’s do not require you to mix fuel. Also, some prefer to be able to tune their bikes, i.e. carb
CKNY wrote:
😂My friend is the CDN importer for Beta, I bet I’ve ridden more Betas than you’ve taken shits. Not all Beta smokers run injection😎
Then you would have known you don't have to mix gas on a Beta....but you didn't. And your "nice smooth power" comment about TPI was strange. Or did you know about the low end bog too?
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CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 10:35am
5/18/2021 10:35am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
This is exactly why I asked. You are uninformed. Do your homework as Bets’s do not require you to mix fuel. Also, some prefer to be...
This is exactly why I asked. You are uninformed. Do your homework as Bets’s do not require you to mix fuel. Also, some prefer to be able to tune their bikes, i.e. carb
CKNY wrote:
😂My friend is the CDN importer for Beta, I bet I’ve ridden more Betas than you’ve taken shits. Not all Beta smokers run injection😎
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Then you would have known you don't have to mix gas on a Beta....but you didn't. And your "nice smooth power" comment about TPI was strange...
Then you would have known you don't have to mix gas on a Beta....but you didn't. And your "nice smooth power" comment about TPI was strange. Or did you know about the low end bog too?
Low end bog😂 you’re a terrible troll man.
CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 10:37am
5/18/2021 10:37am
Where exactly did I say there was no OI on Beta?
CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 10:40am
5/18/2021 10:40am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
This is exactly why I asked. You are uninformed. Do your homework as Bets’s do not require you to mix fuel. Also, some prefer to be...
This is exactly why I asked. You are uninformed. Do your homework as Bets’s do not require you to mix fuel. Also, some prefer to be able to tune their bikes, i.e. carb
wrc777 wrote:
Beta race editions require premix.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
They did that to save 2lbs...don't like to mix fuel then buy the non Race Edition or simply add the oil injection system to the race...
They did that to save 2lbs...don't like to mix fuel then buy the non Race Edition or simply add the oil injection system to the race edition.
More guys remove their pumps from RR’s than people adding OI to RE’s.
CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 10:45am
5/18/2021 10:45am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Why do you want fuel injection?
agn5008 wrote:
Why would I not? No jetting concerns and it’s going to be awesome not mixing gas. I understand some are against it but the way I...
Why would I not? No jetting concerns and it’s going to be awesome not mixing gas. I understand some are against it but the way I see it is you might as well get used to it. They’ll all be fuel injected sooner rather than later.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
There are many reasons to prefer a carb over FI. It depends on the type of riding and amount of tune-ability. Jetting?? There are plenty of...
There are many reasons to prefer a carb over FI. It depends on the type of riding and amount of tune-ability. Jetting?? There are plenty of smart carbs available if you are concerned with jetting.

Most of the hardcore enduro riders who ride to very remote locations prefer less working parts and electronics for less points of failure.

FI on two strokes is being pushed by the EPA, not by the consumer demand:

https://motocrossactionmag.com/ask-the-mxperts-a-fuel-injected-two-stro…

Euro4 and Euro5 regs are what pushed FI in smokers not the EPA or anything North American. As soon as Beta loses its exclusion due to its low production volume they will be running FI. Their system is already developed and waiting for the day they are forced to comply along with Sherco and others.
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Nate_Z
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Nate_Z 5/18/2021 10:49am
5/18/2021 10:49am
Not sure if we've helped the OP decide, but hopefully we've fully clouded the decision to be made!
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CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 10:54am
5/18/2021 10:54am Edited Date/Time 5/18/2021 10:55am
Nate_Z wrote:
Not sure if we've helped the OP decide, but hopefully we've fully clouded the decision to be made!
They are all great bikes, comes down to personal preference. They all work very similar. They all have tons of tuning options as well to set them up to your way of riding.
Black Diesel Bomber 5/18/2021 10:54am
5/18/2021 10:54am
agn5008 wrote:
Why would I not? No jetting concerns and it’s going to be awesome not mixing gas. I understand some are against it but the way I...
Why would I not? No jetting concerns and it’s going to be awesome not mixing gas. I understand some are against it but the way I see it is you might as well get used to it. They’ll all be fuel injected sooner rather than later.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
There are many reasons to prefer a carb over FI. It depends on the type of riding and amount of tune-ability. Jetting?? There are plenty of...
There are many reasons to prefer a carb over FI. It depends on the type of riding and amount of tune-ability. Jetting?? There are plenty of smart carbs available if you are concerned with jetting.

Most of the hardcore enduro riders who ride to very remote locations prefer less working parts and electronics for less points of failure.

FI on two strokes is being pushed by the EPA, not by the consumer demand:

https://motocrossactionmag.com/ask-the-mxperts-a-fuel-injected-two-stro…

CKNY wrote:
Euro4 and Euro5 regs are what pushed FI in smokers not the EPA or anything North American. As soon as Beta loses its exclusion due to...
Euro4 and Euro5 regs are what pushed FI in smokers not the EPA or anything North American. As soon as Beta loses its exclusion due to its low production volume they will be running FI. Their system is already developed and waiting for the day they are forced to comply along with Sherco and others.
Exactly. My point being that FI was not pushed by the manufacturers for performance gains over carburetors. They were being pushed to implement FI and yes eventually and unfortunately they will all be forced to run FI.

If FI was the best option for two stroke performance KTM would be running them on their race bikes. Until they do, unless they are forced to, there's a reason why they still run carbs.
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Spooner
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Spooner 5/18/2021 10:56am
5/18/2021 10:56am
CKNY wrote:
Low end bog😂 you’re a terrible troll man.
Maybe the 18-19 bogged (I’ve never tried one) but the 20+ bikes are rippers. My TX pulls clean from approximately 11 rpm haha!
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Schlava
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Schlava 5/18/2021 10:58am
5/18/2021 10:58am
Joko wrote:
Can you modify a 300 TPI to get the equivalent power output of a 250/300sx carb bike? How much power do you give away with TPI...
Can you modify a 300 TPI to get the equivalent power output of a 250/300sx carb bike? How much power do you give away with TPI? 3-5hp/tq?
CKNY wrote:
They make the same power on the dyno.
But feel different in power delivery.
2
TJ FRG
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TJ FRG 5/18/2021 10:59am
5/18/2021 10:59am
Regardless of what you choose, highly recommend putting a TSP power kit on. They remap the bike and put a new head on for $600. Runs a lot better with a little bit more oil. http://www.sbmotoperformance.com/
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CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 11:01am
5/18/2021 11:01am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
There are many reasons to prefer a carb over FI. It depends on the type of riding and amount of tune-ability. Jetting?? There are plenty of...
There are many reasons to prefer a carb over FI. It depends on the type of riding and amount of tune-ability. Jetting?? There are plenty of smart carbs available if you are concerned with jetting.

Most of the hardcore enduro riders who ride to very remote locations prefer less working parts and electronics for less points of failure.

FI on two strokes is being pushed by the EPA, not by the consumer demand:

https://motocrossactionmag.com/ask-the-mxperts-a-fuel-injected-two-stro…

CKNY wrote:
Euro4 and Euro5 regs are what pushed FI in smokers not the EPA or anything North American. As soon as Beta loses its exclusion due to...
Euro4 and Euro5 regs are what pushed FI in smokers not the EPA or anything North American. As soon as Beta loses its exclusion due to its low production volume they will be running FI. Their system is already developed and waiting for the day they are forced to comply along with Sherco and others.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Exactly. My point being that FI was not pushed by the manufacturers for performance gains over carburetors. They were being pushed to implement FI and yes...
Exactly. My point being that FI was not pushed by the manufacturers for performance gains over carburetors. They were being pushed to implement FI and yes eventually and unfortunately they will all be forced to run FI.

If FI was the best option for two stroke performance KTM would be running them on their race bikes. Until they do, unless they are forced to, there's a reason why they still run carbs.
They are running them on race bikes, just not for MX.
All the offroad factory bikes are FI. Several of them are currently running the new revised TPi system. It’s very easy to get TPi to feel extremely close to the carb bikes just like FI tuning on a 4 stroke. The motors make the same power if running an equivalent head and tuning. The move to FI was inevitable and KTM took the initiative.
CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 11:04am
5/18/2021 11:04am
TJ FRG wrote:
Regardless of what you choose, highly recommend putting a TSP power kit on. They remap the bike and put a new head on for $600. Runs...
Regardless of what you choose, highly recommend putting a TSP power kit on. They remap the bike and put a new head on for $600. Runs a lot better with a little bit more oil. http://www.sbmotoperformance.com/
TSP kit is great, I have one of their medium heads. The new OEM 103 map delivers the same oil as TSP. 44% more than the previous map and the same as the 18/19 maps. The new bikes run Rich fueling and are pretty safe adding around 15% more air flow without a tune.
1
Nate_Z
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Nate_Z 5/18/2021 11:08am
5/18/2021 11:08am
TJ FRG wrote:
Regardless of what you choose, highly recommend putting a TSP power kit on. They remap the bike and put a new head on for $600. Runs...
Regardless of what you choose, highly recommend putting a TSP power kit on. They remap the bike and put a new head on for $600. Runs a lot better with a little bit more oil. http://www.sbmotoperformance.com/
CKNY wrote:
TSP kit is great, I have one of their medium heads. The new OEM 103 map delivers the same oil as TSP. 44% more than the...
TSP kit is great, I have one of their medium heads. The new OEM 103 map delivers the same oil as TSP. 44% more than the previous map and the same as the 18/19 maps. The new bikes run Rich fueling and are pretty safe adding around 15% more air flow without a tune.
I've been super impressed with how well the TPI runs, after reading all the horror stories, I was a bit concerned but I'm up to 15 hours so far and bike runs perfect. Have had it out west at elevation and back in the midwest and bike runs so smooth and crisp. I have no idea why people are spending so much money on heads and ECUs.
1
CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 11:12am
5/18/2021 11:12am
TJ FRG wrote:
Regardless of what you choose, highly recommend putting a TSP power kit on. They remap the bike and put a new head on for $600. Runs...
Regardless of what you choose, highly recommend putting a TSP power kit on. They remap the bike and put a new head on for $600. Runs a lot better with a little bit more oil. http://www.sbmotoperformance.com/
CKNY wrote:
TSP kit is great, I have one of their medium heads. The new OEM 103 map delivers the same oil as TSP. 44% more than the...
TSP kit is great, I have one of their medium heads. The new OEM 103 map delivers the same oil as TSP. 44% more than the previous map and the same as the 18/19 maps. The new bikes run Rich fueling and are pretty safe adding around 15% more air flow without a tune.
Nate_Z wrote:
I've been super impressed with how well the TPI runs, after reading all the horror stories, I was a bit concerned but I'm up to 15...
I've been super impressed with how well the TPI runs, after reading all the horror stories, I was a bit concerned but I'm up to 15 hours so far and bike runs perfect. Have had it out west at elevation and back in the midwest and bike runs so smooth and crisp. I have no idea why people are spending so much money on heads and ECUs.
People like to mod and tinker. The reflashes help with partial throttle power and feel. Lots of people that are complaining of bogging or burbling 1/4 throttle are having issues with the crank sensors. Happening to a lot of bikes, some new off the floor. I always carry a spare sensor. It’s the same as the baro sensor so you can swap the two to trouble shoot.
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agn5008
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agn5008 5/18/2021 11:13am
5/18/2021 11:13am
Nate_Z wrote:
Not sure if we've helped the OP decide, but hopefully we've fully clouded the decision to be made!
You guys did. I just called and put a deposit down on a 300 XC!
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CKNY
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CKNY 5/18/2021 11:21am
5/18/2021 11:21am
Nate_Z wrote:
Not sure if we've helped the OP decide, but hopefully we've fully clouded the decision to be made!
agn5008 wrote:
You guys did. I just called and put a deposit down on a 300 XC!
Awesome. Order a spare CCP sensor now. They are back ordered till July. Check your PV dolly position as well, they arrive set all over the map. PV should open at 5500 rpm, 1.5mm from flush on PV casing is closest to standard. Might wanna get the dealer to check current map as well, 103 is newest. I know a lot of guys that seized top ends on the intake side under 50 hours. The new map oil level is much safer.
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Black Diesel Bomber 5/18/2021 11:21am
5/18/2021 11:21am
CKNY wrote:
Euro4 and Euro5 regs are what pushed FI in smokers not the EPA or anything North American. As soon as Beta loses its exclusion due to...
Euro4 and Euro5 regs are what pushed FI in smokers not the EPA or anything North American. As soon as Beta loses its exclusion due to its low production volume they will be running FI. Their system is already developed and waiting for the day they are forced to comply along with Sherco and others.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Exactly. My point being that FI was not pushed by the manufacturers for performance gains over carburetors. They were being pushed to implement FI and yes...
Exactly. My point being that FI was not pushed by the manufacturers for performance gains over carburetors. They were being pushed to implement FI and yes eventually and unfortunately they will all be forced to run FI.

If FI was the best option for two stroke performance KTM would be running them on their race bikes. Until they do, unless they are forced to, there's a reason why they still run carbs.
CKNY wrote:
They are running them on race bikes, just not for MX. All the offroad factory bikes are FI. Several of them are currently running the new...
They are running them on race bikes, just not for MX.
All the offroad factory bikes are FI. Several of them are currently running the new revised TPi system. It’s very easy to get TPi to feel extremely close to the carb bikes just like FI tuning on a 4 stroke. The motors make the same power if running an equivalent head and tuning. The move to FI was inevitable and KTM took the initiative.
They are running them on the offroad bikes because of the reasons you mentioned earlier about emissions standards on offroad bikes. As for race bikes on closed course tracks they run carbs.

I'm not against FI but your response earlier in the thread about why one would want FI over a carb was way off base - "So he doesn’t have to dick around with a carb and mix gas most likely. Nice smooth power."

Especially for someone who has ridden more betas on this planet than anyone would know you don't have to mix gas on their carb'd bike if you don't want to.

"Nice smooth power" is very subjective. See the video I posted earlier where Rich Larson compares the power delivery between a carb'd and TPI bike.

And "dick around with a carb"? You don't have to if you don't want to. Many smart carbs available now.

With that said if one is wanting the most simple/reliable two stroke possible with the least amount of "dicking around with a carb" and most (easily) tunable bike then one would look at a smart carb'd two stroke.
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