Eli struggling

decano51
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2/24/2021 2:43pm
decano51 wrote:
All these post and people still cant accept that other riders have just been faster at that race...
TXDirt wrote:
Tomac didn’t forget how to ride a dirt bike. I mean yeah duh the other riders have been faster then Tomac. No one is disputing that...
Tomac didn’t forget how to ride a dirt bike. I mean yeah duh the other riders have been faster then Tomac. No one is disputing that. The results are right there.

The question is why.

Try and keep up. Okay. Thx.
why riders are faster? its called progression haha other riders have just caught up to the speed he had.

There isn't any mental issues or lack of speed. no different to any other year. The field has just gotten faster.

people call out his bad starts.. but 2010-2020, Tomac sits 6th for most holeshots. Only current racer ahead of him in 4th is Roczen.


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mx 219
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2/24/2021 3:01pm
decano51 wrote:
All these post and people still cant accept that other riders have just been faster at that race...
TXDirt wrote:
Tomac didn’t forget how to ride a dirt bike. I mean yeah duh the other riders have been faster then Tomac. No one is disputing that...
Tomac didn’t forget how to ride a dirt bike. I mean yeah duh the other riders have been faster then Tomac. No one is disputing that. The results are right there.

The question is why.

Try and keep up. Okay. Thx.
decano51 wrote:
why riders are faster? its called progression haha other riders have just caught up to the speed he had. There isn't any mental issues or lack...
why riders are faster? its called progression haha other riders have just caught up to the speed he had.

There isn't any mental issues or lack of speed. no different to any other year. The field has just gotten faster.

people call out his bad starts.. but 2010-2020, Tomac sits 6th for most holeshots. Only current racer ahead of him in 4th is Roczen.


Its either progression or something is up with Eli mentally/physically.

Most of us can accept that it could be either option. You on the other hand seem to think the answer is definitive and that it is what you want to believe it is. I will try to be open minded and leave it up for debate, but at the moment I will go with the majority in believing somethings up with Eli. Maybe he doesnt want to hang it out that extra bit anymore.
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soggy
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2/24/2021 3:28pm
TXDirt wrote:
Tomac of yesteryear would have these riders covered. He doesn’t really even look the same right now. It’s not just a case of wow these other...
Tomac of yesteryear would have these riders covered. He doesn’t really even look the same right now. It’s not just a case of wow these other riders just found all this extra speed. I mean maybe. But I don’t believe that.

This is just a case of a rider not willing to ride on that crazy bleeding edge anymore every lap of every race. We have seen it a hundred times when a career starts to trend downwards. I mean the guy is still a champion contender here. So it’s not like his career is over. But that dominating speed will be less and less as time marches forward.

We will occasionally get the old Tomac that will light up the field and dominate. But it will just happen less and less. No shame in that.

Another thing that will not help him at this stage in his career is his mid pack starts. He isn’t blazing through the field like before. So those mid pack starts are going to hurt him a lot more now.
Clearly he’s not pushing like he used to the question is why. Is it cause he’s not willing to push it, or he physically can’t. I would guess he’s just burnt out and doesn’t have the extra 1% the other guys have right now.
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BS12
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2/24/2021 5:29pm
Another theory:

Not feeling it in SX early on for whatever reason (standard), bled a heap of points, maybe more than expected. Now that it appears that the title is out of reach, mail in SX, go after another outdoor title.

Another, nother theory:

Burnt/still burnt from a big 2020, SX title hangover ala Jason Anderson 2019, or slow start first half of 2020 like Webb, and goes on a tear in the second half of the season.

The Shop

gregyou
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2/24/2021 5:33pm
decano51 wrote:
All these post and people still cant accept that other riders have just been faster at that race...
TXDirt wrote:
Tomac didn’t forget how to ride a dirt bike. I mean yeah duh the other riders have been faster then Tomac. No one is disputing that...
Tomac didn’t forget how to ride a dirt bike. I mean yeah duh the other riders have been faster then Tomac. No one is disputing that. The results are right there.

The question is why.

Try and keep up. Okay. Thx.
decano51 wrote:
why riders are faster? its called progression haha other riders have just caught up to the speed he had. There isn't any mental issues or lack...
why riders are faster? its called progression haha other riders have just caught up to the speed he had.

There isn't any mental issues or lack of speed. no different to any other year. The field has just gotten faster.

people call out his bad starts.. but 2010-2020, Tomac sits 6th for most holeshots. Only current racer ahead of him in 4th is Roczen.


Get off the meth
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gregyou
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2/24/2021 5:36pm
decano51 wrote:
All these post and people still cant accept that other riders have just been faster at that race...
Yes because tomac who has waxed these riders consistently for the last 4 years just suddenly lost any advantage in a matter of months definitely sounds plausible
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Wiff3
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2/24/2021 6:31pm
It seems that every time he looks like he's going to go on one of those crazy Tomac rides, something happens. He's losing the front end fairly often when he starts to push the way he has in the past.
oilman400
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2/24/2021 8:30pm
I’m a Tomac fan first, last it doesn’t matter to me.
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yamaha2000
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2/25/2021 2:22pm
Tomac has likely accomplished everything he’s wanted to. He’s a father now, a 450 sx and tripple 450 mx title holder. I’m not surprised if he wants to preserve himself and take it easier.
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kiwifan
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2/25/2021 2:43pm
TXDirt wrote:
Tomac of yesteryear would have these riders covered. He doesn’t really even look the same right now. It’s not just a case of wow these other...
Tomac of yesteryear would have these riders covered. He doesn’t really even look the same right now. It’s not just a case of wow these other riders just found all this extra speed. I mean maybe. But I don’t believe that.

This is just a case of a rider not willing to ride on that crazy bleeding edge anymore every lap of every race. We have seen it a hundred times when a career starts to trend downwards. I mean the guy is still a champion contender here. So it’s not like his career is over. But that dominating speed will be less and less as time marches forward.

We will occasionally get the old Tomac that will light up the field and dominate. But it will just happen less and less. No shame in that.

Another thing that will not help him at this stage in his career is his mid pack starts. He isn’t blazing through the field like before. So those mid pack starts are going to hurt him a lot more now.
soggy wrote:
Clearly he’s not pushing like he used to the question is why. Is it cause he’s not willing to push it, or he physically can’t. I...
Clearly he’s not pushing like he used to the question is why. Is it cause he’s not willing to push it, or he physically can’t. I would guess he’s just burnt out and doesn’t have the extra 1% the other guys have right now.
hang on, so just because he is not winning you think he is not pushing hard? Cannot you not accept the fact that others may of got faster?

Look I dont know if he is burnt out or whatever (perhaps you know him personally?), but to say that is the only reason why he hasnt been winning is a slap in the face to those who are beating him
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kiwifan
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2/25/2021 2:45pm Edited Date/Time 2/25/2021 2:45pm
decano51 wrote:
All these post and people still cant accept that other riders have just been faster at that race...
gregyou wrote:
Yes because tomac who has waxed these riders consistently for the last 4 years just suddenly lost any advantage in a matter of months definitely sounds...
Yes because tomac who has waxed these riders consistently for the last 4 years just suddenly lost any advantage in a matter of months definitely sounds plausible
perhaps the 'advantage' he has 'lost' is the others have simply got faster, VERY plausible
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1
2/25/2021 3:24pm Edited Date/Time 2/25/2021 3:39pm
Yammyam wrote:
Actual Tomac quote (after the birth of his daughter and 450 SX championship: "I want to keep racing as long as I’m competitive" People in this...
Actual Tomac quote (after the birth of his daughter and 450 SX championship: "I want to keep racing as long as I’m competitive"

People in this thread : "The hunger is gone, he has nothing left to prove, he's making retirement plans"

Why the fuck is it so unfeasible to people that Tomac is just getting his ass whooped right now and has some things to work on?
Talk is cheap though maybe he just want's to maximize the pay checks who knows.

The eye test tells a different story, it's always been mental for him and the best example of that is when chased down Dungey in points because there was a carrot on a stick, he would beat the field by 8+ seconds for like 7 races in a row and the last race he needed to do the same thing to beat Dungey in the championship he melted like butter. That series of events tells everything you need to know about Tomac and his riding, if he's not mentally feeling it he's a top 10 guy when he is no one can beat him.

That same Tomac is out there today, if he gets his head screwed on right once again he will wax the field it doesn't matter how fast Kenny or Webb are going he will beat them, problem is when is he going to start to charge? it's getting late.

He has GOAT speed but he doesn't have the mental sharpness of RC, RV, JS, CR, CW or RD.

We've seen it all of his Kawi career, there is no urgency, I've never seen a rider so slow to get back on his bike after a front wheel wash out then fade from there onwards.

Go watch Daytona 2011, JS almost kills himself gets back up on a broken bike and broken body and starts putting in fastest lap times, you just don't see shit like that anymore.

Anyway, soon enough he will prove my theory an demolish the whole field when he decides he wants to feel it, people really don't look at the mental sides of things in this sport i swear, it's no surprise that the two mentality strongest riders are leading the championship.
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soggy
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2/25/2021 4:39pm
kiwifan wrote:
hang on, so just because he is not winning you think he is not pushing hard? Cannot you not accept the fact that others may of...
hang on, so just because he is not winning you think he is not pushing hard? Cannot you not accept the fact that others may of got faster?

Look I dont know if he is burnt out or whatever (perhaps you know him personally?), but to say that is the only reason why he hasnt been winning is a slap in the face to those who are beating him
I’m not saying he should be beating barcia Webb and roczen but he should be running with them and he’s not. His qualifying times show someone who is capable of a fast lap but he seems to run out of steam

I don’t think it’s a coincidence the guys that have been doing really well have had significant time off the bike in the last year.

Tomac has been relatively healthy since his shoulder injury in 2015? Or 16? The body can only train so much before it starts getting over taxed and he basically hasn’t been able to relax for over a year now.

I don’t know him. But just watching him ride I don’t see the same level of aggression and consistency for 20 min in his riding style. He just needs a reset to recharge the batteries is all I think.
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TXDirt
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2/25/2021 4:45pm
TXDirt wrote:
Tomac of yesteryear would have these riders covered. He doesn’t really even look the same right now. It’s not just a case of wow these other...
Tomac of yesteryear would have these riders covered. He doesn’t really even look the same right now. It’s not just a case of wow these other riders just found all this extra speed. I mean maybe. But I don’t believe that.

This is just a case of a rider not willing to ride on that crazy bleeding edge anymore every lap of every race. We have seen it a hundred times when a career starts to trend downwards. I mean the guy is still a champion contender here. So it’s not like his career is over. But that dominating speed will be less and less as time marches forward.

We will occasionally get the old Tomac that will light up the field and dominate. But it will just happen less and less. No shame in that.

Another thing that will not help him at this stage in his career is his mid pack starts. He isn’t blazing through the field like before. So those mid pack starts are going to hurt him a lot more now.
soggy wrote:
Clearly he’s not pushing like he used to the question is why. Is it cause he’s not willing to push it, or he physically can’t. I...
Clearly he’s not pushing like he used to the question is why. Is it cause he’s not willing to push it, or he physically can’t. I would guess he’s just burnt out and doesn’t have the extra 1% the other guys have right now.
kiwifan wrote:
hang on, so just because he is not winning you think he is not pushing hard? Cannot you not accept the fact that others may of...
hang on, so just because he is not winning you think he is not pushing hard? Cannot you not accept the fact that others may of got faster?

Look I dont know if he is burnt out or whatever (perhaps you know him personally?), but to say that is the only reason why he hasnt been winning is a slap in the face to those who are beating him
Kiwi, you have been around a long time. Do you think in just one off season several riders have all of a sudden gotten faster then Tomac? And so what about Tomac? He wouldn’t get faster in an off season? So the same guy who’s had all these guys covered for the last like five years... all of a sudden in one off season the competition has just improved that much. But the rider who’s been elite for years just remained the same. Really?

Then what were these other riders doing the last 5-7 off seasons while Tomac was King of the class?
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kiwifan
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2/25/2021 6:09pm
soggy wrote:
Clearly he’s not pushing like he used to the question is why. Is it cause he’s not willing to push it, or he physically can’t. I...
Clearly he’s not pushing like he used to the question is why. Is it cause he’s not willing to push it, or he physically can’t. I would guess he’s just burnt out and doesn’t have the extra 1% the other guys have right now.
kiwifan wrote:
hang on, so just because he is not winning you think he is not pushing hard? Cannot you not accept the fact that others may of...
hang on, so just because he is not winning you think he is not pushing hard? Cannot you not accept the fact that others may of got faster?

Look I dont know if he is burnt out or whatever (perhaps you know him personally?), but to say that is the only reason why he hasnt been winning is a slap in the face to those who are beating him
TXDirt wrote:
Kiwi, you have been around a long time. Do you think in just one off season several riders have all of a sudden gotten faster then...
Kiwi, you have been around a long time. Do you think in just one off season several riders have all of a sudden gotten faster then Tomac? And so what about Tomac? He wouldn’t get faster in an off season? So the same guy who’s had all these guys covered for the last like five years... all of a sudden in one off season the competition has just improved that much. But the rider who’s been elite for years just remained the same. Really?

Then what were these other riders doing the last 5-7 off seasons while Tomac was King of the class?
They are faster yes, but he is still getting top 5 and even has a win so just perhaps Tomac hit his peak last couple of seasons and the others are now hitting theirs?
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decano51
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2/25/2021 6:12pm
kiwifan wrote:
hang on, so just because he is not winning you think he is not pushing hard? Cannot you not accept the fact that others may of...
hang on, so just because he is not winning you think he is not pushing hard? Cannot you not accept the fact that others may of got faster?

Look I dont know if he is burnt out or whatever (perhaps you know him personally?), but to say that is the only reason why he hasnt been winning is a slap in the face to those who are beating him
TXDirt wrote:
Kiwi, you have been around a long time. Do you think in just one off season several riders have all of a sudden gotten faster then...
Kiwi, you have been around a long time. Do you think in just one off season several riders have all of a sudden gotten faster then Tomac? And so what about Tomac? He wouldn’t get faster in an off season? So the same guy who’s had all these guys covered for the last like five years... all of a sudden in one off season the competition has just improved that much. But the rider who’s been elite for years just remained the same. Really?

Then what were these other riders doing the last 5-7 off seasons while Tomac was King of the class?
kiwifan wrote:
They are faster yes, but he is still getting top 5 and even has a win so just perhaps Tomac hit his peak last couple of...
They are faster yes, but he is still getting top 5 and even has a win so just perhaps Tomac hit his peak last couple of seasons and the others are now hitting theirs?
makes sense.. considering Tomacs is 29 this year
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Paw Paw 271
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2/26/2021 9:54am
I really feel that Eli has learned over the years that the field of competition always decreases as the SX schedule goes along and a big portion of that is from some of the top riders either getting hurt or crashing. I feel he is holding back and he will still be a factor in the championship at the end. The only real problem with his action is that Web and KR are not likely to do that as they too are riding at less than 100% right now.
After Daytona we should start to see how this is going to play out.

Paw Paw
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brimx153
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2/26/2021 10:21am
I think Eli is 3 % off . But that 3 % is huge . The idea everyone has got quicker and he is the same is the biggest load of BS i ve ever heard .k roc is a bit better. Webb is the same . A 100% Eli still had more raw speed in SX . If he was running with them and just losing out it would be different. But he is getting caught at the end of races, something is up .
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gregyou
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2/26/2021 10:51pm
I really feel that Eli has learned over the years that the field of competition always decreases as the SX schedule goes along and a big...
I really feel that Eli has learned over the years that the field of competition always decreases as the SX schedule goes along and a big portion of that is from some of the top riders either getting hurt or crashing. I feel he is holding back and he will still be a factor in the championship at the end. The only real problem with his action is that Web and KR are not likely to do that as they too are riding at less than 100% right now.
After Daytona we should start to see how this is going to play out.

Paw Paw
You think he is happy to sit around get 30 plus points behind ?

He has said for seasons now he needs to stop getting him self in a hole from the start
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Gordon Liddy
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2/27/2021 4:29am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2021 4:32am
After watching him the first half of the season, i don't think he is putting in the same hours training that he has in years past. Could be having a baby, could be mild burnout, or a combination of both.
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2/27/2021 1:41pm
i think daytona will be a turning point for eli
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mx 219
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2/27/2021 2:03pm
i think daytona will be a turning point for eli
Im not so sure.

I recall last yr he struggled passing 2 riders esrly in the season, if you guessed Barcia and Webb you would be correct.

I think Barcia had a small tip over that allowed Eli by last yr and Webb got bogged down in a sandy section that allowed Eli to get passed him.

I have Eli 3rd for RM fantasy this yr.
JamesReed
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2/28/2021 1:25am
Everyone else has caught up, and Eli takes forever to pass people these days.
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