A Ray got the Rona :(

dang472
Posts
618
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Kingston, IL, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 10:12am
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fd…

25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has resulted in a 1600% increase in fatality reporting.

If we had done this for H1N1 Swine Flu, I’d imagine the numbers would be wildly different.
6
9
dang472
Posts
618
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Kingston, IL, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 10:18am

5
8
Titan1.
Posts
73
Joined
1/14/2021
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
2/12/2021 10:35am
dang472 wrote:
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fdbb14ada6bf8af1541.pdf 25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has...
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fd…

25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has resulted in a 1600% increase in fatality reporting.

If we had done this for H1N1 Swine Flu, I’d imagine the numbers would be wildly different.
I'd love for someone smarter than me (and who also is pro-mask/pro-shut down) to tell me if this legit or not?

I read all 25 pages in 20 minutes (not really) and make sense of it. lol (truthfully, I have no idea what I'm even looking at on this thing).
2
RichieW13
Posts
2481
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/12/2021 10:39am
dang472 wrote:
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fdbb14ada6bf8af1541.pdf 25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has...
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fd…

25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has resulted in a 1600% increase in fatality reporting.

If we had done this for H1N1 Swine Flu, I’d imagine the numbers would be wildly different.
The website you pulled that from is for somebody who ran for President in 2020 and is an anti vaxxer.
4
3

The Shop

RalphS
Posts
975
Joined
2/26/2020
Location
North Hollywood, CA, USA
2/12/2021 10:48am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2021 10:49am
dang472 wrote:
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fdbb14ada6bf8af1541.pdf 25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has...
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fd…

25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has resulted in a 1600% increase in fatality reporting.

If we had done this for H1N1 Swine Flu, I’d imagine the numbers would be wildly different.
Titan1. wrote:
I'd love for someone smarter than me (and who also is pro-mask/pro-shut down) to tell me if this legit or not? I read all 25 pages...
I'd love for someone smarter than me (and who also is pro-mask/pro-shut down) to tell me if this legit or not?

I read all 25 pages in 20 minutes (not really) and make sense of it. lol (truthfully, I have no idea what I'm even looking at on this thing).
This BS always happen when new things come along and people's life change some enter in disbelief and create fantasies to digest what they don't understand, this becomes a business and a way of life for some. Look it in retrospect as if you were in 2030 or see what countries like South Korea and Singapore are doing.

This post truth overinformed world allows a lot of crap to flow around and some people often tag alone because they want to be heard and because they want to feed their egos not because of what they are arguing and they have the utmost indifference to objectivity and other's reality as they can only think for themselves. Unfortunately these few make a lot of noise and convince others, it's like a religion and we're very naive in that sense.

Tldr; there are mistakes that's for sure but don't even consider something coming from jdfor2020
5
2
EngIceDave
Posts
2431
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Merritt Island, FL, USA
2/12/2021 10:58am
dang472 wrote:
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fdbb14ada6bf8af1541.pdf 25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has...
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fd…

25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has resulted in a 1600% increase in fatality reporting.

If we had done this for H1N1 Swine Flu, I’d imagine the numbers would be wildly different.
RichieW13 wrote:
The website you pulled that from is for somebody who ran for President in 2020 and is an anti vaxxer.
Jolie Diane is a wild anti-vaxxer
2
5
RichieW13
Posts
2481
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/12/2021 11:01am
dang472 wrote:
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fdbb14ada6bf8af1541.pdf 25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has...
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fd…

25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has resulted in a 1600% increase in fatality reporting.

If we had done this for H1N1 Swine Flu, I’d imagine the numbers would be wildly different.
Titan1. wrote:
I'd love for someone smarter than me (and who also is pro-mask/pro-shut down) to tell me if this legit or not? I read all 25 pages...
I'd love for someone smarter than me (and who also is pro-mask/pro-shut down) to tell me if this legit or not?

I read all 25 pages in 20 minutes (not really) and make sense of it. lol (truthfully, I have no idea what I'm even looking at on this thing).
Politifact calls it false: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/05/blog-posting/no-cdc-i…

But I know many people won't believe Politifact. I also don't think they did a great job of explaining why it's false.

But the "study" itself is complaining about a CDC update from March.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-int…

Looking at that update, it seems to me that the update is essentially just saying: We created a new death code for COVID-19. COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death.

I think what the "study" is trying to say is that out of 161,000 deaths with COVID, only 9,684 of them ONLY had COVID listed as a cause of death.
3
RalphS
Posts
975
Joined
2/26/2020
Location
North Hollywood, CA, USA
2/12/2021 11:01am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2021 11:14am
Tim507 wrote:
IMHO all sources are questionable and each of use get to choose what we want to present to any debate. I agree that “it may appear”...
IMHO all sources are questionable and each of use get to choose what we want to present to any debate. I agree that “it may appear” that I’m parroting data that I choose to believe, never the less that agreement honestly applies to everyone.
Thus, this is where we find ourselves, face to face at the demilitarized zone as both sides are ultimately “Deniers” of facts controlled by the controllers who are not us.
I’ve come to the determination years ago that the manipulators are driving the dialogue and we are their targets.
Power and control are the goal, all for selfish reasons.
The debate which is programed to divide us, has been successful for decades.
We all know the divisive topics promoted that are used for this purpose. COVID is just another useful tool.
Ultimately Ray is a victim of this charade. Again, this is my belief.

On that note I choose to exit this debate and go riding and watch SX and other racing events.
It's Soros and the Illuminatis and the deep state and that pizza shop with kidnapped kids in DC. It's MK Ultra and the top 1% and the establishment.

Questions I ask people with these ideas. Do you or your family were part of a somewhat questionable church? Has your wealth decreased in the last decades? Do you feel left alone by society and that what you were promised isn't there? Are you a happy person? Do you care for others? Do you resent other guys that are more successful than you? Are your social links working? Are you on meds? Do you have a stable family and job? Have you ever questioned yourself and think as if you could hypothetically be wrong and argue against your own beliefs? Have you ever hold a large responsibility like public office?

I'm with you in some stuffs like the inefficiency of the governments and that everyone has an agenda also can tell we all have too much going on and just want the easiest path but can't hide the fact that you're going way off when you can just say: I choose to believe what I want as it makes me feel better.
5
2
GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
2/12/2021 11:03am
sporkfpoon wrote:
Maverick replied that they were deleted because the comments I was quoting were deleted.
That’s one possibility. For example, there has been a lot of clean-up in this thread. It happens. People have freedom of speech. They don't have freedom to be asshats.
9
3
Titan1.
Posts
73
Joined
1/14/2021
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
2/12/2021 11:04am
dang472 wrote:
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fdbb14ada6bf8af1541.pdf 25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has...
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fd…

25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has resulted in a 1600% increase in fatality reporting.

If we had done this for H1N1 Swine Flu, I’d imagine the numbers would be wildly different.
RichieW13 wrote:
The website you pulled that from is for somebody who ran for President in 2020 and is an anti vaxxer.
EngIceDave wrote:
Jolie Diane is a wild anti-vaxxer
So did the CDC change the reporting rules in March of 2020 or not? And if so, why? That's all that really matters to me...I couldn't care less if the source is www.realunbiasedaccurateandpeerreviewedscience.com, or www.jerryspringer.com.
2
2
Titan1.
Posts
73
Joined
1/14/2021
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
2/12/2021 11:07am
dang472 wrote:
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fdbb14ada6bf8af1541.pdf 25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has...
https://jdfor2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/adf864_165a103206974fd…

25 page peer reviewed study showing the CDC has actually violated federal law in changing reporting rules and data collection specifically for Covid. This has resulted in a 1600% increase in fatality reporting.

If we had done this for H1N1 Swine Flu, I’d imagine the numbers would be wildly different.
Titan1. wrote:
I'd love for someone smarter than me (and who also is pro-mask/pro-shut down) to tell me if this legit or not? I read all 25 pages...
I'd love for someone smarter than me (and who also is pro-mask/pro-shut down) to tell me if this legit or not?

I read all 25 pages in 20 minutes (not really) and make sense of it. lol (truthfully, I have no idea what I'm even looking at on this thing).
RichieW13 wrote:
Politifact calls it false: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/05/blog-posting/no-cdc-isnt-inflating-coronavirus-statistics/#sources But I know many people won't believe Politifact. I also don't think they did a great job of explaining why it's...
Politifact calls it false: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/05/blog-posting/no-cdc-i…

But I know many people won't believe Politifact. I also don't think they did a great job of explaining why it's false.

But the "study" itself is complaining about a CDC update from March.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-int…

Looking at that update, it seems to me that the update is essentially just saying: We created a new death code for COVID-19. COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death.

I think what the "study" is trying to say is that out of 161,000 deaths with COVID, only 9,684 of them ONLY had COVID listed as a cause of death.
That makes sense...Thanks!

It's the old died FROM covid..or...died WITH covid argument. That nobody will ever know for sure...its like the "my neck brace saved me" argument. No way of knowing either way.
RichieW13
Posts
2481
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/12/2021 11:08am
RichieW13 wrote:
The website you pulled that from is for somebody who ran for President in 2020 and is an anti vaxxer.
EngIceDave wrote:
Jolie Diane is a wild anti-vaxxer
Titan1. wrote:
So did the CDC change the reporting rules in March of 2020 or not? And if so, why? That's all that really matters to me...I couldn't...
So did the CDC change the reporting rules in March of 2020 or not? And if so, why? That's all that really matters to me...I couldn't care less if the source is www.realunbiasedaccurateandpeerreviewedscience.com, or www.jerryspringer.com.
Yes. They realized that there is a new thing that is killing people, so they created a new classification code so it can be tracked.
5
1
RichieW13
Posts
2481
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/12/2021 11:10am
Titan1. wrote:
That makes sense...Thanks! It's the old died FROM covid..or...died WITH covid argument. That nobody will ever know for sure...its like the "my neck brace saved me"...
That makes sense...Thanks!

It's the old died FROM covid..or...died WITH covid argument. That nobody will ever know for sure...its like the "my neck brace saved me" argument. No way of knowing either way.
It's not even as grey as neck braces. Physicians are supposed to use their knowledge and experience to decide if the COVID really was a primary contribution to death.
4
2
RalphS
Posts
975
Joined
2/26/2020
Location
North Hollywood, CA, USA
2/12/2021 11:11am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2021 11:12am
You remind of the very Fat and obese people that can't help themselves and keep eating more and more as they don't realize it's a disease that's killing them. It's addictive.
2
2
Titan1.
Posts
73
Joined
1/14/2021
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
2/12/2021 11:16am
Titan1. wrote:
That makes sense...Thanks! It's the old died FROM covid..or...died WITH covid argument. That nobody will ever know for sure...its like the "my neck brace saved me"...
That makes sense...Thanks!

It's the old died FROM covid..or...died WITH covid argument. That nobody will ever know for sure...its like the "my neck brace saved me" argument. No way of knowing either way.
RichieW13 wrote:
It's not even as grey as neck braces. Physicians are supposed to use their knowledge and experience to decide if the COVID really was a primary...
It's not even as grey as neck braces. Physicians are supposed to use their knowledge and experience to decide if the COVID really was a primary contribution to death.
Well I don't know about that...

If someone has lung cancer and gets pneumonia...its considered that the lung cancer killed them.
If someone has heart disease, and gets strep throat and dies...the heart disease killed them.

But, if someone is overweight, has diabetes, heart disease, high cholesterol, and is in a car accident and dies...but also happens to test positive for covid...its counted as a covid death.

So I understand why they made the change, and what your saying...just that it isn't as cut and dry as one might think.
6
3
RichieW13
Posts
2481
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/12/2021 11:19am
Titan1. wrote:
Well I don't know about that... If someone has lung cancer and gets pneumonia...its considered that the lung cancer killed them. If someone has heart disease...
Well I don't know about that...

If someone has lung cancer and gets pneumonia...its considered that the lung cancer killed them.
If someone has heart disease, and gets strep throat and dies...the heart disease killed them.

But, if someone is overweight, has diabetes, heart disease, high cholesterol, and is in a car accident and dies...but also happens to test positive for covid...its counted as a covid death.

So I understand why they made the change, and what your saying...just that it isn't as cut and dry as one might think.
"But, if someone is overweight, has diabetes, heart disease, high cholesterol, and is in a car accident and dies...but also happens to test positive for covid...its counted as a covid death."

It's not supposed to be reported that way. I believe there were a couple of anecdotes about that happening, but I don't think it's typical.
6
dang472
Posts
618
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Kingston, IL, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 11:24am
dang472 wrote:
RalphS wrote:
You remind of the very Fat and obese people that can't help themselves and keep eating more and more as they don't realize it's a disease...
You remind of the very Fat and obese people that can't help themselves and keep eating more and more as they don't realize it's a disease that's killing them. It's addictive.
Cool story. I’m a healthy 37yr old that works everyday in an “essential” job so an overweight 75yr old with diabetes socks can demand I wear a mask and not have my kids in school because MUH HEALTH. That’s who you remind me of since we’re going that route.
4
15
dang472
Posts
618
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Kingston, IL, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 11:36am
This is how we’ve gotten here. A group of people have a belief in their mind and they can dismiss things that disagrees with it. We all do it.

There are plenty of studies showing asymptotic spread isn’t a significant thing. The CDC says kids in K-8 aren’t spreading the virus. Life expectancy has gone up this year. Putting Covid patients in nursing homes is criminal. Quarantining the healthy has never been a thing.

Regardless of these realities, we’ll just sit here on the internet fighting over nuances.
7
6
davis224
Posts
7507
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 11:36am
Titan1. wrote:
That makes sense...Thanks! It's the old died FROM covid..or...died WITH covid argument. That nobody will ever know for sure...its like the "my neck brace saved me"...
That makes sense...Thanks!

It's the old died FROM covid..or...died WITH covid argument. That nobody will ever know for sure...its like the "my neck brace saved me" argument. No way of knowing either way.
RichieW13 wrote:
It's not even as grey as neck braces. Physicians are supposed to use their knowledge and experience to decide if the COVID really was a primary...
It's not even as grey as neck braces. Physicians are supposed to use their knowledge and experience to decide if the COVID really was a primary contribution to death.
Titan1. wrote:
Well I don't know about that... If someone has lung cancer and gets pneumonia...its considered that the lung cancer killed them. If someone has heart disease...
Well I don't know about that...

If someone has lung cancer and gets pneumonia...its considered that the lung cancer killed them.
If someone has heart disease, and gets strep throat and dies...the heart disease killed them.

But, if someone is overweight, has diabetes, heart disease, high cholesterol, and is in a car accident and dies...but also happens to test positive for covid...its counted as a covid death.

So I understand why they made the change, and what your saying...just that it isn't as cut and dry as one might think.
Genuinely asking, not looking for an argument here. Wouldn't they be listed as comorbidities/contributing causes? Like if someone gets Covid, it causes a blood clot, then that clot causes a stroke/heart attack that kills them. Why shouldn't covid be listed as a contributing cause?
dang472
Posts
618
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Kingston, IL, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 11:59am
EngIceDave wrote:
Jolie Diane is a wild anti-vaxxer
Titan1. wrote:
So did the CDC change the reporting rules in March of 2020 or not? And if so, why? That's all that really matters to me...I couldn't...
So did the CDC change the reporting rules in March of 2020 or not? And if so, why? That's all that really matters to me...I couldn't care less if the source is www.realunbiasedaccurateandpeerreviewedscience.com, or www.jerryspringer.com.
RichieW13 wrote:
Yes. They realized that there is a new thing that is killing people, so they created a new classification code so it can be tracked.
Ok, after all the source attacks you admit the CDC created a new way to count fatalities. The question is, have they done this with everything else? What happens to the Swine Flu numbers? I truly am curious.

For a pure mental exercise, let’s use an automotive analogy. If we take all rear end collisions in a month and list 40% of the cause as brake problems instead of following too closely/speed/distracted driving, do we suddenly have a brake problem that needs battery immediate attention?

Classification can change everything we perceive as normal or abnormal.
4
7
TBOLTUSA
Posts
316
Joined
7/8/2008
Location
Bensalem, PA, USA
2/12/2021 12:16pm
Get well soon Alex Ray !!
4
mxracer828
Posts
212
Joined
5/23/2020
Location
Lake Elsinore, CA, USA
2/12/2021 12:25pm
RichieW13 wrote:
It's not even as grey as neck braces. Physicians are supposed to use their knowledge and experience to decide if the COVID really was a primary...
It's not even as grey as neck braces. Physicians are supposed to use their knowledge and experience to decide if the COVID really was a primary contribution to death.
Titan1. wrote:
Well I don't know about that... If someone has lung cancer and gets pneumonia...its considered that the lung cancer killed them. If someone has heart disease...
Well I don't know about that...

If someone has lung cancer and gets pneumonia...its considered that the lung cancer killed them.
If someone has heart disease, and gets strep throat and dies...the heart disease killed them.

But, if someone is overweight, has diabetes, heart disease, high cholesterol, and is in a car accident and dies...but also happens to test positive for covid...its counted as a covid death.

So I understand why they made the change, and what your saying...just that it isn't as cut and dry as one might think.
davis224 wrote:
Genuinely asking, not looking for an argument here. Wouldn't they be listed as comorbidities/contributing causes? Like if someone gets Covid, it causes a blood clot, then...
Genuinely asking, not looking for an argument here. Wouldn't they be listed as comorbidities/contributing causes? Like if someone gets Covid, it causes a blood clot, then that clot causes a stroke/heart attack that kills them. Why shouldn't covid be listed as a contributing cause?
That is what they put down on the death certificate....why is that??? Hospitals get 40k for every patient that dies of covid 19. My wife had a 80+ year old patient that was dying of heart failure. She was in the icu 2 times previous in a month and a half. She had covid the first time in. When she finally passed they listed it as covid 19 and nothing to do with heart failure.....
2
11
RichieW13
Posts
2481
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/12/2021 1:03pm
mxracer828 wrote:
That is what they put down on the death certificate....why is that??? Hospitals get 40k for every patient that dies of covid 19. My wife had...
That is what they put down on the death certificate....why is that??? Hospitals get 40k for every patient that dies of covid 19. My wife had a 80+ year old patient that was dying of heart failure. She was in the icu 2 times previous in a month and a half. She had covid the first time in. When she finally passed they listed it as covid 19 and nothing to do with heart failure.....
So we don't have a health issue?

Instead, we have a massive Mediare fraud issue?

BTW, hospitals don't "get 40k for every patient that dies of covid 19". Instead, hospitals get paid 20% extra for Medicare patients admitted who have tested positive for COVID-19.
1
dang472
Posts
618
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Kingston, IL, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 1:10pm
It’s not fraud if the government reporting directive is giving you the option/incentive to list it as such. It’s like having your credit card statement giving you a box to check for 20% reduction if you believe a portion of your debt is potentially unfair. How many people are going to check the box?
1
3
RichieW13
Posts
2481
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/12/2021 1:19pm
dang472 wrote:
It’s not fraud if the government reporting directive is giving you the option/incentive to list it as such. It’s like having your credit card statement giving...
It’s not fraud if the government reporting directive is giving you the option/incentive to list it as such. It’s like having your credit card statement giving you a box to check for 20% reduction if you believe a portion of your debt is potentially unfair. How many people are going to check the box?
I can't find any details to verify it, but I think a hospital just gets 20% extra for a patient with COVID. If that patient dies, there is no additional financial incentive for the hospital to claim that the patient died FROM COVID. Simply being COVID positive is enough to increase the Medicare reimbursement, even if COVID doesn't get listed as cause of death.
2
toroP
Posts
4496
Joined
4/6/2009
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
2/12/2021 1:26pm
I read a report that some people with COVID grow antlers. I think it was on the internet.

12
3

Post a reply to: A Ray got the Rona :(

The Latest