A very "real" thread.

Moto520
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11/19/2020 9:32am
There was a great interview with Jimmy Button about this subject. He talks about how, even though he had a decent recovery, he still has lingering effects from his broken neck. Tough subject to talk about. Some people don't have a full understanding of how the spinal column/ cords work.
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Motoxdoc
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11/19/2020 9:33am
Tbteam wrote:
Something that others see as motivational and inspiring really pisses me off. I'm talking about how every so often I stumble across an article about someone...
Something that others see as motivational and inspiring really pisses me off.

I'm talking about how every so often I stumble across an article about someone who had a critical spine injury and "due to the fact that they refused to give up" they can now walk and carry on like they "beat" the injury through perseverance.

Don't misunderstand me. The fact that ANYONE can make it through that dark tunnel and be able to function with any semblance of normalcy is absolutely "inspiring" and "motivational". I truly feel for those that have gone through this.

But let's leave the bullshit out, shall we? Nobody uses willpower and determination to walk again after a SCI. Some recover more than others because they work harder, and they put out so much effort that they regain some mobility that others simply didn't work hard enough to achieve. Most importantly, their body allows them to recover.

As far as the idea that someone can simply say "I knew I could beat it and I did", well, fuck you. Your injury allowed you to recover. You weren't injured enough to be permanently in a chair. Period.

Do you think Magoo wouldn't have worked hard enough to recover? How about Ernie? David? Pit? Tony D? how about the many other lesser known victims of a SCI. Did they not want to work?

Every time I read an article about someone "not allowing themselves to be permanently in a chair" or some version of this, I'm really happy for that person, and at the same time, fuck off.

OK, rant over. This has bothered me for a long long time. I'm overjoyed for anyone that has been able to recover, but making claims about working through it is demeaning to those who live in a chair.
Motoxdoc wrote:
What's the point you're trying to make?....That a person can't improve the condition of their SCI through willpower, determination, perseverance and refusing to give up?...or you...
What's the point you're trying to make?....That a person can't improve the condition of their SCI through willpower, determination, perseverance and refusing to give up?...or you just don't like hearing about it? Are you telling people who overcame a SCI through hard work to "fuck off"? Huh

I understand that there are some SCI's that can NOT be helped with willpower and determination. I also know that there are many SCI's that CAN be helped with these attributes. Just because a SCI "allows then to recover"...that does NOT necessarily mean that they will spontaneously recover without serious hard work and a positive attitude.

Obviously I'm in the minority here but....It seems ironic to me that you wrote these two sentences back to back.

"Nobody uses willpower and determination to walk again after a SCI. Some recover more than others because they work harder, and they put out so much effort that they regain some mobility that others simply didn't work hard enough to achieve."

Also, the following sentence is another contradiction at best...on the other hand, some might call slightly cruel.

"Every time I read an article about someone "not allowing themselves to be permanently in a chair" or some version of this, I'm really happy for that person, and at the same time, fuck off.".

I wish I could say I'm shocked that you actually wrote this sentence out and clicked "submit", but this is vital so I'm not. Heck, at this point 32 other members read your rant and thought, yup, I can get on board with this guy, fuck people who share their stories about overcoming a SCI through hard work.


Tbteam wrote:
There’s so much missing the point in your response that it’s difficult to respond. Just read my post again, I guess. The point of the first...
There’s so much missing the point in your response that it’s difficult to respond. Just read my post again, I guess. The point of the first section you quoted is this... there’s a light switch concerning these injuries. If it’s on, you can recover with hard work. If it’s off, no amount of determination and hard work will make any difference. Ultimately, nobody should tell someone with a SCI to work harder and they can overcome it. By the same line of thought, if you were one of those that did recover, please don’t state that you simply worked harder and had more willpower than others.
If "There’s so much missing the point in [my] response" why then don't you explain it?....for instance, explain why your back to back statements I quoted above aren't contradicting. I can only reply to what you write....and it sounds super unempathetic and contradicting at the same time.

Does the following sentence not contradict your entire rant? "There’s a light switch concerning these injuries. If it’s on, you can recover with hard work."

I can agree with this..."Ultimately, nobody should tell someone with a SCI to work harder and they can overcome it." , as that sounds fairly unempathetic too...but how often does that happen? I can't imagine hearing someone say to someone else in a wheelchair, "Hey David, if you tried harder, you could've overcome your injury!" It seems to me you're either ranting about something that doesn't happen or you're insulting SCI recovery patients...and now you have 53 vital members on board....awesome!

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TXDirt
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11/19/2020 10:01am
For certain telling someone to keep fighting and don't give up is a lot different then "work harder". I think in general most understand that SCI's are not something you just "work harder" and it fixes itself.

There is a physical side to this as well as a mental/emotional/psychosocial side to it. And you may know people who struggle with this part a lot and sorta do give up a bit. You don't have much control over the outcome on the physical side. It's either going to get better or it won't. I do think there is some control over the mental side of it. If I'm wrong then I do sincerely apologize. I've never been through what some of you have and I won't at all pretend to know what it feels like.

Also, I believe the Lord can provide super natural healing and I also believe he can guide the doctors hand. I also believe in the power of prayer. I don't always understand his answers. His ways are not my ways. I also accept the fact that I can't know the answer to every question on this side of eternity.

I also believe we should be spending billions of dollars more on SCI research and rehabilitation. It breaks my heart to see people with any injury or disability struggling and we are the so called richest country in human history can't even take care of our own. But yet we can give billions of dollars to all kinds of foreign governments. Most of which are hostile to Americans.

Doesn't make sense.

I know. I mixed religion and politics into one post.

Sorry not sorry.
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Tbteam
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11/19/2020 10:39am
Motoxdoc wrote:
What's the point you're trying to make?....That a person can't improve the condition of their SCI through willpower, determination, perseverance and refusing to give up?...or you...
What's the point you're trying to make?....That a person can't improve the condition of their SCI through willpower, determination, perseverance and refusing to give up?...or you just don't like hearing about it? Are you telling people who overcame a SCI through hard work to "fuck off"? Huh

I understand that there are some SCI's that can NOT be helped with willpower and determination. I also know that there are many SCI's that CAN be helped with these attributes. Just because a SCI "allows then to recover"...that does NOT necessarily mean that they will spontaneously recover without serious hard work and a positive attitude.

Obviously I'm in the minority here but....It seems ironic to me that you wrote these two sentences back to back.

"Nobody uses willpower and determination to walk again after a SCI. Some recover more than others because they work harder, and they put out so much effort that they regain some mobility that others simply didn't work hard enough to achieve."

Also, the following sentence is another contradiction at best...on the other hand, some might call slightly cruel.

"Every time I read an article about someone "not allowing themselves to be permanently in a chair" or some version of this, I'm really happy for that person, and at the same time, fuck off.".

I wish I could say I'm shocked that you actually wrote this sentence out and clicked "submit", but this is vital so I'm not. Heck, at this point 32 other members read your rant and thought, yup, I can get on board with this guy, fuck people who share their stories about overcoming a SCI through hard work.


Tbteam wrote:
There’s so much missing the point in your response that it’s difficult to respond. Just read my post again, I guess. The point of the first...
There’s so much missing the point in your response that it’s difficult to respond. Just read my post again, I guess. The point of the first section you quoted is this... there’s a light switch concerning these injuries. If it’s on, you can recover with hard work. If it’s off, no amount of determination and hard work will make any difference. Ultimately, nobody should tell someone with a SCI to work harder and they can overcome it. By the same line of thought, if you were one of those that did recover, please don’t state that you simply worked harder and had more willpower than others.
Motoxdoc wrote:
If [b]"There’s so much missing the point in [my] response"[/b] why then don't you explain it?....for instance, explain why your back to back statements I quoted...
If "There’s so much missing the point in [my] response" why then don't you explain it?....for instance, explain why your back to back statements I quoted above aren't contradicting. I can only reply to what you write....and it sounds super unempathetic and contradicting at the same time.

Does the following sentence not contradict your entire rant? "There’s a light switch concerning these injuries. If it’s on, you can recover with hard work."

I can agree with this..."Ultimately, nobody should tell someone with a SCI to work harder and they can overcome it." , as that sounds fairly unempathetic too...but how often does that happen? I can't imagine hearing someone say to someone else in a wheelchair, "Hey David, if you tried harder, you could've overcome your injury!" It seems to me you're either ranting about something that doesn't happen or you're insulting SCI recovery patients...and now you have 53 vital members on board....awesome!

Does the following sentence not contradict your entire rant? "There’s a light switch concerning these injuries. If it’s on, you can recover with hard work."

Nope. It reinforces my entire point. You can recover, or you can’t. It’s determined by the level of injury, not in your unfortunate belief that you can make it happen, no matter what.

There are some guys on this thread that I respect very much who are in chairs. Maybe read what they wrote.
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The Shop

tobz
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11/19/2020 11:16am
Motoxdoc wrote:
What's the point you're trying to make?....That a person can't improve the condition of their SCI through willpower, determination, perseverance and refusing to give up?...or you...
What's the point you're trying to make?....That a person can't improve the condition of their SCI through willpower, determination, perseverance and refusing to give up?...or you just don't like hearing about it? Are you telling people who overcame a SCI through hard work to "fuck off"? Huh

I understand that there are some SCI's that can NOT be helped with willpower and determination. I also know that there are many SCI's that CAN be helped with these attributes. Just because a SCI "allows then to recover"...that does NOT necessarily mean that they will spontaneously recover without serious hard work and a positive attitude.

Obviously I'm in the minority here but....It seems ironic to me that you wrote these two sentences back to back.

"Nobody uses willpower and determination to walk again after a SCI. Some recover more than others because they work harder, and they put out so much effort that they regain some mobility that others simply didn't work hard enough to achieve."

Also, the following sentence is another contradiction at best...on the other hand, some might call slightly cruel.

"Every time I read an article about someone "not allowing themselves to be permanently in a chair" or some version of this, I'm really happy for that person, and at the same time, fuck off.".

I wish I could say I'm shocked that you actually wrote this sentence out and clicked "submit", but this is vital so I'm not. Heck, at this point 32 other members read your rant and thought, yup, I can get on board with this guy, fuck people who share their stories about overcoming a SCI through hard work.


tobz wrote:
getting angry about something that literally isn’t being said is the thing to do these days I guess. To the OP, and the 39 other circle...
getting angry about something that literally isn’t being said is the thing to do these days I guess.

To the OP, and the 39 other circle jerking gentlemen’s club members. by definition you couldn’t offer praise to anyone about achieving anything, given the chance that there’s another person in the world who failed at the same objective.
Tbteam wrote:
"Failed at the same objective?" Are you fucking kidding me? Failed? If you have 40 stitches in your neck and survive is that the equivalent to...
"Failed at the same objective?" Are you fucking kidding me? Failed?

If you have 40 stitches in your neck and survive is that the equivalent to having your head cut off? That's the point. These don't equate, and professing your strength and fortitude in a situation is pissing on everyone else that doesn't have an equal chance.
Just applying your logic from your OP.

I’m not allowed to praise someone for their hard word and adversity of going through rehab because someone else in the world unfortunately won’t have the opportunity to so.
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Tbteam
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11/19/2020 11:41am
tobz wrote:
getting angry about something that literally isn’t being said is the thing to do these days I guess. To the OP, and the 39 other circle...
getting angry about something that literally isn’t being said is the thing to do these days I guess.

To the OP, and the 39 other circle jerking gentlemen’s club members. by definition you couldn’t offer praise to anyone about achieving anything, given the chance that there’s another person in the world who failed at the same objective.
Tbteam wrote:
"Failed at the same objective?" Are you fucking kidding me? Failed? If you have 40 stitches in your neck and survive is that the equivalent to...
"Failed at the same objective?" Are you fucking kidding me? Failed?

If you have 40 stitches in your neck and survive is that the equivalent to having your head cut off? That's the point. These don't equate, and professing your strength and fortitude in a situation is pissing on everyone else that doesn't have an equal chance.
tobz wrote:
Just applying your logic from your OP. I’m not allowed to praise someone for their hard word and adversity of going through rehab because someone else...
Just applying your logic from your OP.

I’m not allowed to praise someone for their hard word and adversity of going through rehab because someone else in the world unfortunately won’t have the opportunity to so.
Again, you’re wrong. Never said or implied. Try to keep up. It’s about the physically unable being told they’re not trying hard enough. It’s unacceptable. Check your responses here and see how everyone else views it. You just don’t get it.
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tobz
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11/19/2020 11:55am
?



Can you show us the article that ridicules those that couldn’t? or was it just an article praising an individual for not giving up and your the one taking the 2020 approach and getting offended?
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MX45
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11/19/2020 12:50pm
Fuck SCI.
I typed up alot more because I'm dealing with a mountain of shit, but it's easier to just say fuck sci.
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Tbteam
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11/19/2020 2:59pm
tobz wrote:
? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/11/19/460273/s1200_1629E3D8_A7B9_4CD7_B475_AC9989624911.jpg[/img] Can you show us the article that ridicules those that couldn’t? or was it just an article praising an individual for not giving up...
?



Can you show us the article that ridicules those that couldn’t? or was it just an article praising an individual for not giving up and your the one taking the 2020 approach and getting offended?
Dude, GFY.
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tobz
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11/19/2020 3:11pm
Good chat, great thread.
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Tbteam
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11/19/2020 3:14pm
tobz wrote:
Good chat, great thread.
Only one tool in the entire shed.
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jemcee
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11/19/2020 3:22pm
TXDirt wrote:
For certain telling someone to keep fighting and don't give up is a lot different then "work harder". I think in general most understand that SCI's...
For certain telling someone to keep fighting and don't give up is a lot different then "work harder". I think in general most understand that SCI's are not something you just "work harder" and it fixes itself.

There is a physical side to this as well as a mental/emotional/psychosocial side to it. And you may know people who struggle with this part a lot and sorta do give up a bit. You don't have much control over the outcome on the physical side. It's either going to get better or it won't. I do think there is some control over the mental side of it. If I'm wrong then I do sincerely apologize. I've never been through what some of you have and I won't at all pretend to know what it feels like.

Also, I believe the Lord can provide super natural healing and I also believe he can guide the doctors hand. I also believe in the power of prayer. I don't always understand his answers. His ways are not my ways. I also accept the fact that I can't know the answer to every question on this side of eternity.

I also believe we should be spending billions of dollars more on SCI research and rehabilitation. It breaks my heart to see people with any injury or disability struggling and we are the so called richest country in human history can't even take care of our own. But yet we can give billions of dollars to all kinds of foreign governments. Most of which are hostile to Americans.

Doesn't make sense.

I know. I mixed religion and politics into one post.

Sorry not sorry.
Yep, if I did nothing and sat in my bitterness my SCI would have had exactly the same amount of recovery.. But I worked/work really hard and try to stay positive to improve my mental/emotional/psychosocial situation!

I don't agree with that belief but I'm 100% behind you having it

I also believe that unfortunately religion is a big reason for people NOT wanting to spend billions on SCI research but I don't wanna get into that.. If anyone wants to disagree just assume I replied 'oh yep good point I didn't think of that, I'll concede' haha
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1
11/19/2020 4:36pm
ocscottie wrote:
Or "you just got to believe!" oh man in my 36 years now the stories are endless and aggravating. Wish I had a dollar for every...
Or "you just got to believe!" oh man in my 36 years now the stories are endless and aggravating. Wish I had a dollar for every one of them, I'd be a rich man.

The best one ever was after winning a moto racing my Pilot, a lady came up to me and said, "can I ask a personal question...how does your wheelchair fit in the car?" LOL!!! I about fell out of my chair. Sometimes we get some comedy relief in the naivety of common folk.
jemcee wrote:
I always get the 'can I pray for you?' and usually I just smile and say sure (as you know I'm far from religious) but one...
I always get the 'can I pray for you?' and usually I just smile and say sure (as you know I'm far from religious) but one time I had one tool get right in my face about it and wouldn't let it go as if he was really making a difference so I got the shits and said "you're not praying for me you're praying for you using me, If your god can do something about it but won't until asked, he can fuck right off!" haha
Agree with all 3 post. Some of the comments we get are hilarious!

So many stories in my 16 years as a quad and traveling to wheelchair rugby tournaments. The random questions we get in the airports when traveling as a team are endless.

I do get what the OP was saying. It does get old hearing the same old shit. I do have a few friends that can walk but they use a chair the majority of the time because their balance sucks and it's just faster in the chair.
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ProKawi24
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11/19/2020 5:37pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2020 5:38pm
Wow...I just came back to this thread 20 hrs later and was not expecting to see some of the comments in here.

To Tobz & Motoxdoc...I don't want to start a whole debate or call you assholes but I seriously believe you both are missing the point entirely. However, I didn't appreciate the comment about the "circle jerking gentlemen's club" which I'm guessing I must be a part of since I agree with the OP, but I also understand someone who has never been put in the same situation as us simply cannot truly grasp or understand where we're coming from. The insult, though wildly immature and unnecessary, is a reflection of the daily issues we with SCI's deal with. I could go back and forth with you til' I'm blue in the face but it will do nothing. And if you want to talk about a "2020 response", look in the mirror. You're the type of person who doesn't seem to be able to admit when they crossed a line and will instead dig their heels in to the bitter end.

I'm always happy to see or hear that someone once paralyzed is now able to walk again, but there are just so many variables that are involved. I'll also admit that I get a bit jealous. I put in years of very difficult, painful rehabilitation but my spinal cord was simply too damaged. It's not like a broken arm where you cast it up, let it heal and weeks later back to normal. The central nervous system is such a complicated thing and we are many decades away from any hope for a "cure" or miracle treatment. The hard truth is unlike Cancer, AIDs, HIV, or many other high profile medical issues - SCI's simply aren't anywhere near the top of the list and never have been for the medical community or the world demanding results.

In my opinion, this is simply a subject you two should have stayed away from. For those of us with the injury or very close to someone who is, it's something we can understand. The OP may have been having a difficult day and saw something that struck a nerve, I know how he feels because as a Para I've been there. The approach you came in here with is misguided and somewhat shameful.
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MPJC
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Fantasy
11/19/2020 6:34pm
The OP makes a great point and it seems a lot of others get it. A few, however, seem hopelessly determined to read the post in the most uncharitable way possible. That’s unfortunate but I wouldn’t worry too much about that. I feel like I’ve gained valuable insights from the perspectives expressed here and I thank you for it.
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TXDirt
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11/19/2020 7:45pm
jemcee wrote:
Yep, if I did nothing and sat in my bitterness my SCI would have had exactly the same amount of recovery.. But I worked/work really hard...
Yep, if I did nothing and sat in my bitterness my SCI would have had exactly the same amount of recovery.. But I worked/work really hard and try to stay positive to improve my mental/emotional/psychosocial situation!

I don't agree with that belief but I'm 100% behind you having it

I also believe that unfortunately religion is a big reason for people NOT wanting to spend billions on SCI research but I don't wanna get into that.. If anyone wants to disagree just assume I replied 'oh yep good point I didn't think of that, I'll concede' haha
Perhaps we are talking past each other here. I’m not sure. One thing I am sure of is I know next to nothing about the struggles folks with SCI injuries are going through. I support all of my moto bro’s.
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Motoxdoc
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11/19/2020 8:23pm
ProKawi24 wrote:
Wow...I just came back to this thread 20 hrs later and was not expecting to see some of the comments in here. To Tobz & Motoxdoc...I...
Wow...I just came back to this thread 20 hrs later and was not expecting to see some of the comments in here.

To Tobz & Motoxdoc...I don't want to start a whole debate or call you assholes but I seriously believe you both are missing the point entirely. However, I didn't appreciate the comment about the "circle jerking gentlemen's club" which I'm guessing I must be a part of since I agree with the OP, but I also understand someone who has never been put in the same situation as us simply cannot truly grasp or understand where we're coming from. The insult, though wildly immature and unnecessary, is a reflection of the daily issues we with SCI's deal with. I could go back and forth with you til' I'm blue in the face but it will do nothing. And if you want to talk about a "2020 response", look in the mirror. You're the type of person who doesn't seem to be able to admit when they crossed a line and will instead dig their heels in to the bitter end.

I'm always happy to see or hear that someone once paralyzed is now able to walk again, but there are just so many variables that are involved. I'll also admit that I get a bit jealous. I put in years of very difficult, painful rehabilitation but my spinal cord was simply too damaged. It's not like a broken arm where you cast it up, let it heal and weeks later back to normal. The central nervous system is such a complicated thing and we are many decades away from any hope for a "cure" or miracle treatment. The hard truth is unlike Cancer, AIDs, HIV, or many other high profile medical issues - SCI's simply aren't anywhere near the top of the list and never have been for the medical community or the world demanding results.

In my opinion, this is simply a subject you two should have stayed away from. For those of us with the injury or very close to someone who is, it's something we can understand. The OP may have been having a difficult day and saw something that struck a nerve, I know how he feels because as a Para I've been there. The approach you came in here with is misguided and somewhat shameful.
“I don’t want to start a whole debate or call you assholes”...Nice underhanded way of taking the highroad! Lol...but IMO it pretty much puts you in the same category as someone who says “circle jerking Gentlemens club” other than the fact your comment was personally directed at me. I try to stay away from insults and ad homonym attacks and stick to the subject at hand, which makes me wonder, which part of either of my posts were insulting or immature?...and sorry, that was not my intention.
You called me out, literally, without addressing a single thing that I wrote.
If I’m missing the point, why don’t you explain it to me? I have worked with my share of paralyzed patients...why should I stay away from this subject?....and what in the world is a “2020 response?” Lol.
I understand if you are angry about having a CSI that does not allow you to improve through hard work and determination, as I seem to have more empathy than the average person and I have had quite a few debilitating injuries of my own, granted, nothing near as bad as permanent paralysis. I understand if you are jealous of somebody who does have a CSI that allows them to improve through hard work and determination....but to tell a person to fuck off for sharing such a story just seems heartless and unempathetic to me. That is not debatable but you can try to enlighten me with your opinion as to why mine is “misguided and shameful”.
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jemcee
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11/19/2020 11:10pm
jemcee wrote:
Yep, if I did nothing and sat in my bitterness my SCI would have had exactly the same amount of recovery.. But I worked/work really hard...
Yep, if I did nothing and sat in my bitterness my SCI would have had exactly the same amount of recovery.. But I worked/work really hard and try to stay positive to improve my mental/emotional/psychosocial situation!

I don't agree with that belief but I'm 100% behind you having it

I also believe that unfortunately religion is a big reason for people NOT wanting to spend billions on SCI research but I don't wanna get into that.. If anyone wants to disagree just assume I replied 'oh yep good point I didn't think of that, I'll concede' haha
TXDirt wrote:
Perhaps we are talking past each other here. I’m not sure. One thing I am sure of is I know next to nothing about the struggles...
Perhaps we are talking past each other here. I’m not sure. One thing I am sure of is I know next to nothing about the struggles folks with SCI injuries are going through. I support all of my moto bro’s.
I don't think I know what you mean by that haha but I was just extending on what you were saying about the other struggles apart from just the physical, and how in that instance being positive and working hard actually helps..
And then making sure that you didn't think my other posts were having a go at people that have beliefs..

So if you did think I was havin a go at ya I definitely wasn't haha
jemcee
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11/19/2020 11:19pm
Motoxdoc wrote:
“I don’t want to start a whole debate or call you assholes”...Nice underhanded way of taking the highroad! Lol...but IMO it pretty much puts you in...
“I don’t want to start a whole debate or call you assholes”...Nice underhanded way of taking the highroad! Lol...but IMO it pretty much puts you in the same category as someone who says “circle jerking Gentlemens club” other than the fact your comment was personally directed at me. I try to stay away from insults and ad homonym attacks and stick to the subject at hand, which makes me wonder, which part of either of my posts were insulting or immature?...and sorry, that was not my intention.
You called me out, literally, without addressing a single thing that I wrote.
If I’m missing the point, why don’t you explain it to me? I have worked with my share of paralyzed patients...why should I stay away from this subject?....and what in the world is a “2020 response?” Lol.
I understand if you are angry about having a CSI that does not allow you to improve through hard work and determination, as I seem to have more empathy than the average person and I have had quite a few debilitating injuries of my own, granted, nothing near as bad as permanent paralysis. I understand if you are jealous of somebody who does have a CSI that allows them to improve through hard work and determination....but to tell a person to fuck off for sharing such a story just seems heartless and unempathetic to me. That is not debatable but you can try to enlighten me with your opinion as to why mine is “misguided and shameful”.
How can one person continue to miss the point over and over?
No one is angry that others got better or recover no one is jealous (well maybe a little) if someone else recovers..
The problem has NOTHING to do with the person who recovered!
It's when people attribute working hard or staying positive to be the reason they did recover because it couldn't be (you should know this) and that implies the people that didn't recover didn't work hard or stay positive which is an insult!
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Tbteam
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8/16/2006
Location
Ormond Beach, FL US
11/20/2020 5:18am
Motoxdoc wrote:
“I don’t want to start a whole debate or call you assholes”...Nice underhanded way of taking the highroad! Lol...but IMO it pretty much puts you in...
“I don’t want to start a whole debate or call you assholes”...Nice underhanded way of taking the highroad! Lol...but IMO it pretty much puts you in the same category as someone who says “circle jerking Gentlemens club” other than the fact your comment was personally directed at me. I try to stay away from insults and ad homonym attacks and stick to the subject at hand, which makes me wonder, which part of either of my posts were insulting or immature?...and sorry, that was not my intention.
You called me out, literally, without addressing a single thing that I wrote.
If I’m missing the point, why don’t you explain it to me? I have worked with my share of paralyzed patients...why should I stay away from this subject?....and what in the world is a “2020 response?” Lol.
I understand if you are angry about having a CSI that does not allow you to improve through hard work and determination, as I seem to have more empathy than the average person and I have had quite a few debilitating injuries of my own, granted, nothing near as bad as permanent paralysis. I understand if you are jealous of somebody who does have a CSI that allows them to improve through hard work and determination....but to tell a person to fuck off for sharing such a story just seems heartless and unempathetic to me. That is not debatable but you can try to enlighten me with your opinion as to why mine is “misguided and shameful”.
jemcee wrote:
How can one person continue to miss the point over and over? No one is angry that others got better or recover no one is jealous...
How can one person continue to miss the point over and over?
No one is angry that others got better or recover no one is jealous (well maybe a little) if someone else recovers..
The problem has NOTHING to do with the person who recovered!
It's when people attribute working hard or staying positive to be the reason they did recover because it couldn't be (you should know this) and that implies the people that didn't recover didn't work hard or stay positive which is an insult!
Thank you. I can’t say it more clearly than you did. What can be misconstrued here?

Spot on!
7
11/20/2020 7:04am
I’ve seen and known people who have SCI’s barely do any extensive therapy and have made a full recovery. I’m talking simple PT/OT that barely does anything. Then there’s others who have dedicated their life to try to recover, move to a different country, pay for expensive therapy that insurance doesn’t cover, and have had no progress.

I’ve been a para for 6 years. I moved across the country and spent 5 days a week, sometimes 5 hours a day doing rehab and had zero results. After 9 months with no progress i decided it was time to move home and try to live a normal life.

Hard work helps some people recover from SCI, hard work does not cure SCI. It is annoying when people say the reason some recover is from hard work, that is simply untrue. I’ll admit I’m jealous of people who had a SCI and can now walk, feel, don’t have to stick a straw up their dick to take a piss, don’t have to deal with the shit that SCI people have to deal with. Yes I’m jealous, but I’m also unbelievably happy for those as well, because I’d kill to be in their shoes.

Implying that people didn’t recover because they didn’t try hard or weren’t positive is the biggest slap in the face to those that physically can’t recover. That’s the whole point of the post. But don’t worry motodoc and tobz, keep digging your heels in and stick with your argument.
18
MPJC
Posts
2062
Joined
5/18/2017
Location
CA
Fantasy
11/20/2020 9:23am
Perhaps I can be of a small amount of help here in clearing up misunderstandings between some who seem to be talking past each other. This will require a brief analysis of certain kinds of statements.

I take it that this kind of statement can reasonably be taken to be insulting (as is the point of the thread): "If you work hard and stay positive, then you'll recover". This statement is wrong because it is saying that working hard and staying positive are all you need to recover (any statement of the form "if P then Q" asserts that P is sufficient for Q). Given the meaning of this statement, you can infer the following (the statements are logically equivalent): "if you don't recover, then you didn't work hard and stay positive". This, as has been pointed out, is bullshit - insulting bullshit at that. The lesson to be derived here is that you should not say "if you work hard and stay positive, then you'll recover" because it directly logically entails something that is insulting to those who haven't recovered.

The above is quite different from saying: "if you recovered, then you must have worked hard and stayed positive". This statement is probably false, since as has been pointed out by others, some have recovered without working hard and staying positive. But I take it that it is less insulting than "if you work hard and stay positive, then you'll recover" because it is, I think, just a way of saying something nice to someone who has recovered and it doesn't necessarily imply anything negative about those who haven't.

The truth seems to be that for some people, no amount of hard work will enable recovery, for others, they will recover regardless of whether or not they work hard, and for yet others, their injury will permit recovery in a way that will be aided by hard work. The original poster make exactly this point, as far as I can tell, and justifiably expresses frustration with those who say - perhaps without understanding the implications of their speech - that if the injured person works hard, then they will recover.

Now I'm hoping that that lends some clarity to the matter. I am not a medical expert, but I have considerable expertise in logic. On that note, when I've taught introductory courses in logic and critical reasoning, one of the first things I tell students is to interpret with a principle of charity, assuming that the author you are reading is rational and intelligent, thus putting their writing in its best possible light - otherwise you're just arguing against a straw man. There are a few here that need that lesson.

2
1
Tbteam
Posts
2864
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Ormond Beach, FL US
11/20/2020 10:39am
The last two posts sum it up perfectly. i would never conceive of insulting someone with a SCI. The last paragraph of HandicapMX's post and the third paragraph of MPJC's post completely underscore the intent of my original post. I was concerned that perhaps a few might not understand my point, being VitalMX and all, but I'm really pleased that the overwhelming majority of those that responded were supportive.

Thank you to everyone.
9
tobz
Posts
3891
Joined
3/5/2007
Location
Adelaide AU
11/20/2020 2:46pm
Tbteam wrote:
The last two posts sum it up perfectly. i would never conceive of insulting someone with a SCI. The last paragraph of HandicapMX's post and the...
The last two posts sum it up perfectly. i would never conceive of insulting someone with a SCI. The last paragraph of HandicapMX's post and the third paragraph of MPJC's post completely underscore the intent of my original post. I was concerned that perhaps a few might not understand my point, being VitalMX and all, but I'm really pleased that the overwhelming majority of those that responded were supportive.

Thank you to everyone.
They’ve certainly summed up some issues very well, my focus was always on you and your original post, since it’s your thread, that I just can’t comprehend. I’ve agreed with and am equally shocked with comments from people in this thread where theyve experienced some worrying comments from people, things like religious folk enforcing their beliefs, or downright rude comments of “your mustn’t work hard enough”. It’s unbelievable that there’s someone in the human race that can think like this, and I’m sorry that those that are sharing their experiences have had to go through that.

My problem goes back to your OP, which I’ve tried to get clarification on but just got told to go fuck myself. You specifically point to articles (plural) that support those that have gone through rehab to walk again, which I think you’ve interpreted as a form of insult to those who won’t have that opportunity. I’ve asked for an example as I truly believe that your misconstruing the intent of these “articles”.

Again, the other examples of the posts following the OP are appalling to hear that there are people in the world that can think in that manner, let alone actually say them out loud. But you couldn’t possibly take them seriously, which I’m glad to see that a lot of responses that they give are clever rejections or simply just shutting them down with realities.

It’s a discussion forum after all, hence my probing into these articles you’ve referred to that have caused you to start a thread. I’d love to read them to try and grasp where your OP came from, but hey if were only here to strictly agree and not ask questions then I’ll leave you to it.
7
FerCzD
Posts
1632
Joined
5/6/2018
Location
Pleasanton, CA US
11/20/2020 5:25pm Edited Date/Time 11/20/2020 5:27pm
tobz wrote:
They’ve certainly summed up some issues very well, my focus was always on you and [u]your[/u] original post, since it’s your thread, that I just can’t...
They’ve certainly summed up some issues very well, my focus was always on you and your original post, since it’s your thread, that I just can’t comprehend. I’ve agreed with and am equally shocked with comments from people in this thread where theyve experienced some worrying comments from people, things like religious folk enforcing their beliefs, or downright rude comments of “your mustn’t work hard enough”. It’s unbelievable that there’s someone in the human race that can think like this, and I’m sorry that those that are sharing their experiences have had to go through that.

My problem goes back to your OP, which I’ve tried to get clarification on but just got told to go fuck myself. You specifically point to articles (plural) that support those that have gone through rehab to walk again, which I think you’ve interpreted as a form of insult to those who won’t have that opportunity. I’ve asked for an example as I truly believe that your misconstruing the intent of these “articles”.

Again, the other examples of the posts following the OP are appalling to hear that there are people in the world that can think in that manner, let alone actually say them out loud. But you couldn’t possibly take them seriously, which I’m glad to see that a lot of responses that they give are clever rejections or simply just shutting them down with realities.

It’s a discussion forum after all, hence my probing into these articles you’ve referred to that have caused you to start a thread. I’d love to read them to try and grasp where your OP came from, but hey if were only here to strictly agree and not ask questions then I’ll leave you to it.
I Know people like you. Who feel the need to always have the last word, to always prove their point is right. Sincerely, I hope you find whatever is missing in your life to fill that void.
8
cz2crf2wc
Posts
541
Joined
11/22/2013
Location
Solona Beach, CA US
11/20/2020 6:21pm
Motoxdoc wrote:
“I don’t want to start a whole debate or call you assholes”...Nice underhanded way of taking the highroad! Lol...but IMO it pretty much puts you in...
“I don’t want to start a whole debate or call you assholes”...Nice underhanded way of taking the highroad! Lol...but IMO it pretty much puts you in the same category as someone who says “circle jerking Gentlemens club” other than the fact your comment was personally directed at me. I try to stay away from insults and ad homonym attacks and stick to the subject at hand, which makes me wonder, which part of either of my posts were insulting or immature?...and sorry, that was not my intention.
You called me out, literally, without addressing a single thing that I wrote.
If I’m missing the point, why don’t you explain it to me? I have worked with my share of paralyzed patients...why should I stay away from this subject?....and what in the world is a “2020 response?” Lol.
I understand if you are angry about having a CSI that does not allow you to improve through hard work and determination, as I seem to have more empathy than the average person and I have had quite a few debilitating injuries of my own, granted, nothing near as bad as permanent paralysis. I understand if you are jealous of somebody who does have a CSI that allows them to improve through hard work and determination....but to tell a person to fuck off for sharing such a story just seems heartless and unempathetic to me. That is not debatable but you can try to enlighten me with your opinion as to why mine is “misguided and shameful”.
I don't care if you worked with a thousand paralyzed people. You will never understand what they go thru mentally and physically.
5
Chance1216
Posts
8606
Joined
4/1/2018
Location
Carson, CA US
11/20/2020 8:09pm
I don’t know why Tobz and Motoxdoc feel the need for continuous explanations. There’s been several throughout these two pages. You either get it or you don’t. If not, an explanation isn’t owed and just move on.
6
1

Post a reply to: A very "real" thread.

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