450 Outdoor Champ out

WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 6/8/2009 9:39pm
6/8/2009 9:39pm
88sdad wrote:
Theres a big difference between cheering for your favorite and putting down his opponents.
Not really. If you want one guy to win, then you want him to beat another guy.

And I just don't get the Reed mystique. When he announced he was racing the outdoors, there were dozens of people on here who were ready to just give him the title and avoid having all those riders go out and get all sweaty. Why run the races, Reed is here so it's his title. Well, Windham and Ferry both have better outdoor records than Reed and nobody would feel like they were shoe-ins for the title. I pointed out that Chad Reed is a great SX rider but he's just been a good top-five guy outdoors and you'd have thought I questioned his parentage. Well, those are the facts. People who have such a man-crush on the guy just don't like to hear the facts. Maybe he'll win, and if he does, he'll earn it. But it's not a stretch to say Short can beat him. Overall, Short has an edge outdoors in my opinion - I don't know if it's enough edge to overcome his DNF at GH, but I think he can do it. That's all I'm saying.
Whitey
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Whitey 6/8/2009 9:49pm
6/8/2009 9:49pm
The only guys that consistently beat Chad outdoors when he rode was James and RC and Kevin in 2003. Who else won in that period? The only reason Shorty and GL etc have a better 450 record than Chad outdoors with wins is they rode when there was no RC or James.

If i wasnt at work i would post the series results from 2003-2005.
toroP
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toroP 6/8/2009 9:50pm
6/8/2009 9:50pm
The Wiz wrote:
With Alessi's injury today, this Championship is going to be won by the most consistent at loosing all time, Chad Reed. Reed can't make the podium...
With Alessi's injury today, this Championship is going to be won by the most consistent at loosing all time, Chad Reed. Reed can't make the podium and now he's in line to win this championship. I'm sick!
Yes, you are sick, mentally ill. We are 3 races in and you've already given the championship away twice

"most consistent at loosing all time" ...like others here, you need to find a sport you understand. But then again, if you don't get winning and losing, sports might not be your thing.
toroP
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toroP 6/8/2009 10:02pm
6/8/2009 10:02pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Not really. If you want one guy to win, then you want him to beat another guy. And I just don't get the Reed mystique. When...
Not really. If you want one guy to win, then you want him to beat another guy.

And I just don't get the Reed mystique. When he announced he was racing the outdoors, there were dozens of people on here who were ready to just give him the title and avoid having all those riders go out and get all sweaty. Why run the races, Reed is here so it's his title. Well, Windham and Ferry both have better outdoor records than Reed and nobody would feel like they were shoe-ins for the title. I pointed out that Chad Reed is a great SX rider but he's just been a good top-five guy outdoors and you'd have thought I questioned his parentage. Well, those are the facts. People who have such a man-crush on the guy just don't like to hear the facts. Maybe he'll win, and if he does, he'll earn it. But it's not a stretch to say Short can beat him. Overall, Short has an edge outdoors in my opinion - I don't know if it's enough edge to overcome his DNF at GH, but I think he can do it. That's all I'm saying.
Boy, do people here know the sport! Look at the 2004 stats. MX stats. Do you even know what they look like. "top five guy"...... I bet your intellect isn't top 5 in the room you're typing in. Go get the bug spray so you can boost your stats.

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WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 6/8/2009 10:06pm
6/8/2009 10:06pm
Whitey wrote:
The only guys that consistently beat Chad outdoors when he rode was James and RC and Kevin in 2003. Who else won in that period? The...
The only guys that consistently beat Chad outdoors when he rode was James and RC and Kevin in 2003. Who else won in that period? The only reason Shorty and GL etc have a better 450 record than Chad outdoors with wins is they rode when there was no RC or James.

If i wasnt at work i would post the series results from 2003-2005.
Ferry won the first Budds Creek moto in '03. Reed raced with Kevin and Tim Ferry more than anyone else, and if one of those two guys jumped into the season, nobody would give them a second thought - but Reed gets in and all of a sudden he's the prohibitive favorite. I just don't understand the logic in that. Heck, with James sitting out, RV and Alessi both out, I STILL don't see Reed being the prohibitive favorite. Short has proven he can beat him, and so can Grant and IT.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 6/8/2009 10:08pm
6/8/2009 10:08pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2009 10:13pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Not really. If you want one guy to win, then you want him to beat another guy. And I just don't get the Reed mystique. When...
Not really. If you want one guy to win, then you want him to beat another guy.

And I just don't get the Reed mystique. When he announced he was racing the outdoors, there were dozens of people on here who were ready to just give him the title and avoid having all those riders go out and get all sweaty. Why run the races, Reed is here so it's his title. Well, Windham and Ferry both have better outdoor records than Reed and nobody would feel like they were shoe-ins for the title. I pointed out that Chad Reed is a great SX rider but he's just been a good top-five guy outdoors and you'd have thought I questioned his parentage. Well, those are the facts. People who have such a man-crush on the guy just don't like to hear the facts. Maybe he'll win, and if he does, he'll earn it. But it's not a stretch to say Short can beat him. Overall, Short has an edge outdoors in my opinion - I don't know if it's enough edge to overcome his DNF at GH, but I think he can do it. That's all I'm saying.
toroP wrote:
Boy, do people here know the sport! Look at the 2004 stats. [b]MX[/b] stats. Do you even know what they look like. "top five guy"...... I...
Boy, do people here know the sport! Look at the 2004 stats. MX stats. Do you even know what they look like. "top five guy"...... I bet your intellect isn't top 5 in the room you're typing in. Go get the bug spray so you can boost your stats.
He went 5-2 yesterday. That's without Villo in there. That looks like a top five guy to me. I think he has a 4-3, 7-3 and a 5-2. What do you call that?
toroP
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toroP 6/8/2009 10:15pm
6/8/2009 10:15pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2009 10:16pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Not really. If you want one guy to win, then you want him to beat another guy. And I just don't get the Reed mystique. When...
Not really. If you want one guy to win, then you want him to beat another guy.

And I just don't get the Reed mystique. When he announced he was racing the outdoors, there were dozens of people on here who were ready to just give him the title and avoid having all those riders go out and get all sweaty. Why run the races, Reed is here so it's his title. Well, Windham and Ferry both have better outdoor records than Reed and nobody would feel like they were shoe-ins for the title. I pointed out that Chad Reed is a great SX rider but he's just been a good top-five guy outdoors and you'd have thought I questioned his parentage. Well, those are the facts. People who have such a man-crush on the guy just don't like to hear the facts. Maybe he'll win, and if he does, he'll earn it. But it's not a stretch to say Short can beat him. Overall, Short has an edge outdoors in my opinion - I don't know if it's enough edge to overcome his DNF at GH, but I think he can do it. That's all I'm saying.
toroP wrote:
Boy, do people here know the sport! Look at the 2004 stats. [b]MX[/b] stats. Do you even know what they look like. "top five guy"...... I...
Boy, do people here know the sport! Look at the 2004 stats. MX stats. Do you even know what they look like. "top five guy"...... I bet your intellect isn't top 5 in the room you're typing in. Go get the bug spray so you can boost your stats.
WhKnuckle wrote:
He went 5-2 yesterday. That's without Villo in there. That looks like a top five guy to me. I think he has a 4-3, 7-3 and...
He went 5-2 yesterday. That's without Villo in there. That looks like a top five guy to me. I think he has a 4-3, 7-3 and a 5-2. What do you call that?
Example; 2004 Steel City, moto 2 Reed finished 2nd, 7 sec. behind RC, Windham was 3rd, a minute behind Reed. A minute = 60 sec. There is no Reed mystique. It's just that people that know the sport, like, say, DeCoster, know what he is capable of.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 6/8/2009 10:23pm
6/8/2009 10:23pm
Bottom line, his average finish outdoors is somewhere around third or fourth. That's a top five guy. And if you think Decoster hired him because of his outdoor ability, you're on drugs.

Chad is a great rider, but he's mostly great in SX. He's never been one of the top outdoor guys. He's raced around with Kevin and Tim Ferry a lot more than he's raced around with RC and James. There's no shame in racing with Kevin Windham, I wish I could do that, but his fans have an incredibly inflated opinion of him outdoors. That's called a "mystique".
toroP
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toroP 6/8/2009 10:41pm
6/8/2009 10:41pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2009 10:43pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Bottom line, his average finish outdoors is somewhere around third or fourth. That's a top five guy. And if you think Decoster hired him because of...
Bottom line, his average finish outdoors is somewhere around third or fourth. That's a top five guy. And if you think Decoster hired him because of his outdoor ability, you're on drugs.

Chad is a great rider, but he's mostly great in SX. He's never been one of the top outdoor guys. He's raced around with Kevin and Tim Ferry a lot more than he's raced around with RC and James. There's no shame in racing with Kevin Windham, I wish I could do that, but his fans have an incredibly inflated opinion of him outdoors. That's called a "mystique".
Reed beat Windham to finish 2nd to RC in the 2004 series. And Windham is just an OK rider outdoors, right? And he's beaten KW soundly, multiple times.

Also, 2007 Buds Creek, 2007 MXDN, did you see those races? Seems you learn the sport from other posters who are clueless about MX/SX history. Too many people deal in opinions instead of stats. Try looking through the time intervals, lap charts, old video, you might learn something.
rc4187
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rc4187 6/8/2009 11:16pm
6/8/2009 11:16pm
all 39 other riders on the gate have to be out before you can win anything by default.
the races aren't the only part of the motocross championship... the preparation for each race is just as big of a part. if you practice hard you run the risk of injury... if you don't you run the risk of serving fries and making minimum wage.
Shimokitazawa 6/9/2009 3:22am
6/9/2009 3:22am
Chad Reed just had his title drive get a whole lot easier for 2009.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 6/9/2009 4:30am
6/9/2009 4:30am
WhKnuckle wrote:
Bottom line, his average finish outdoors is somewhere around third or fourth. That's a top five guy. And if you think Decoster hired him because of...
Bottom line, his average finish outdoors is somewhere around third or fourth. That's a top five guy. And if you think Decoster hired him because of his outdoor ability, you're on drugs.

Chad is a great rider, but he's mostly great in SX. He's never been one of the top outdoor guys. He's raced around with Kevin and Tim Ferry a lot more than he's raced around with RC and James. There's no shame in racing with Kevin Windham, I wish I could do that, but his fans have an incredibly inflated opinion of him outdoors. That's called a "mystique".
toroP wrote:
Reed beat Windham to finish 2nd to RC in the 2004 series. And Windham is just an OK rider outdoors, right? And he's beaten KW soundly...
Reed beat Windham to finish 2nd to RC in the 2004 series. And Windham is just an OK rider outdoors, right? And he's beaten KW soundly, multiple times.

Also, 2007 Buds Creek, 2007 MXDN, did you see those races? Seems you learn the sport from other posters who are clueless about MX/SX history. Too many people deal in opinions instead of stats. Try looking through the time intervals, lap charts, old video, you might learn something.
The last two years that Reed rode the outdoor series were '05 and '06. In '05 he got 258 points out of 14 starts; in 2006 he got 333 points out of 18 starts. That works out to 18.46 points per start. That's a slightly better than a 4th place average finish. Along with his record this year (4/3, 6/3, 5/2 if I remember right), that makes him about a top-five guy, just like I said.
Stoop
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Stoop 6/9/2009 4:39am
6/9/2009 4:39am
quit your hating fuckhead
Whitey
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Whitey 6/9/2009 4:54am
6/9/2009 4:54am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:19am
WhKnuckle wrote:
Bottom line, his average finish outdoors is somewhere around third or fourth. That's a top five guy. And if you think Decoster hired him because of...
Bottom line, his average finish outdoors is somewhere around third or fourth. That's a top five guy. And if you think Decoster hired him because of his outdoor ability, you're on drugs.

Chad is a great rider, but he's mostly great in SX. He's never been one of the top outdoor guys. He's raced around with Kevin and Tim Ferry a lot more than he's raced around with RC and James. There's no shame in racing with Kevin Windham, I wish I could do that, but his fans have an incredibly inflated opinion of him outdoors. That's called a "mystique".
toroP wrote:
Reed beat Windham to finish 2nd to RC in the 2004 series. And Windham is just an OK rider outdoors, right? And he's beaten KW soundly...
Reed beat Windham to finish 2nd to RC in the 2004 series. And Windham is just an OK rider outdoors, right? And he's beaten KW soundly, multiple times.

Also, 2007 Buds Creek, 2007 MXDN, did you see those races? Seems you learn the sport from other posters who are clueless about MX/SX history. Too many people deal in opinions instead of stats. Try looking through the time intervals, lap charts, old video, you might learn something.
WhKnuckle wrote:
The last two years that Reed rode the outdoor series were '05 and '06. In '05 he got 258 points out of 14 starts; in 2006...
The last two years that Reed rode the outdoor series were '05 and '06. In '05 he got 258 points out of 14 starts; in 2006 he got 333 points out of 18 starts. That works out to 18.46 points per start. That's a slightly better than a 4th place average finish. Along with his record this year (4/3, 6/3, 5/2 if I remember right), that makes him about a top-five guy, just like I said.
haha isnt it funny how you can spin info to suit yourself.

2006 18 starts 6- 2nd's, 8- 3rd's, 2- 4th's, 1-16th and a DNF. That is with RC and James, closer to top 3 than than top 5 consistently.

2005 14 starts 1-1st, 2-2nds, 7-3rds, 2-4ths, 1-8th, 1-DNF

2004 24 starts 16-2nds, 6-3rds, 1-17th, 1_DNF

Top 3 more often than top 5 i think, and the bulk of that is against RC or RC and James.


In saying all that, i am surprised he hasnt won one this year yet.
dlhamblin
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dlhamblin 6/9/2009 5:13am
6/9/2009 5:13am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:19am
The Wiz wrote:
With Alessi's injury today, this Championship is going to be won by the most consistent at loosing all time, Chad Reed. Reed can't make the podium...
With Alessi's injury today, this Championship is going to be won by the most consistent at loosing all time, Chad Reed. Reed can't make the podium and now he's in line to win this championship. I'm sick!
Why? A championship is won over the season and consistency (and staying healthy) is a key factor.

I agree it would have been a great summer if Ryan and Mike were still in and all of them battling for it, but both are out now.
Dean
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Dean 6/9/2009 5:23am
6/9/2009 5:23am
Chad's consistency will pay greater dividends outdoors, simply because he's not racing any opponents who have shown the ability to reel off multiple wins.
DirtyFilter75 6/9/2009 5:28am
6/9/2009 5:28am
It would appear that it is Reed's to lose but you guys give the championship away everytime some guy wins practice or has a good hot lap! It's a long season and it could come down to the guy who can keep it on two wheels. Luck has worked out in Chad's favor for sure all his opponents seem to be falling around him.

who will be the first to proclaim Voodoo?
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-eagle- 6/9/2009 5:54am
6/9/2009 5:54am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:19am
Only three rounds in and you guys are declaring champs and replacement champs for the POSSIBLY injured champ that has no champs.
Why is nobody talking about the cat & mouse game between 10 & 377.

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ns503
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ns503 6/9/2009 6:28am
6/9/2009 6:28am
So guess who won the moto at Southwick that broke RC's unbeaten streak?



Carry on....
mccread
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mccread 6/9/2009 6:32am
6/9/2009 6:32am
Reed is a fantastic rider 2nd in Gps and 2nd in the outdoors is not too shabby. Alessi is known as a great outdoor rider and he has a similar record to reed!
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txmxer 6/9/2009 7:05am
6/9/2009 7:05am
When this season started, I predicted the battle would be between RV, MA and probably Reed.

It's obvious Reed is still working on his outdoor setup and just generally riding the outdoor style/pace. He's still trying to ride with SX type precision which, in the last 10+ years won't get it done because you had RC and JBS and this year RV and MA.

Those guys are out. Reed is the favorite. But, I think their will be very good racing between Short, Grant and Reed. Hopefully they stay healthy and we get to watch battles.
toroP
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toroP 6/9/2009 7:11am
6/9/2009 7:11am Edited Date/Time 6/9/2009 7:24am
WhKnuckle wrote:
Bottom line, his average finish outdoors is somewhere around third or fourth. That's a top five guy. And if you think Decoster hired him because of...
Bottom line, his average finish outdoors is somewhere around third or fourth. That's a top five guy. And if you think Decoster hired him because of his outdoor ability, you're on drugs.

Chad is a great rider, but he's mostly great in SX. He's never been one of the top outdoor guys. He's raced around with Kevin and Tim Ferry a lot more than he's raced around with RC and James. There's no shame in racing with Kevin Windham, I wish I could do that, but his fans have an incredibly inflated opinion of him outdoors. That's called a "mystique".
toroP wrote:
Reed beat Windham to finish 2nd to RC in the 2004 series. And Windham is just an OK rider outdoors, right? And he's beaten KW soundly...
Reed beat Windham to finish 2nd to RC in the 2004 series. And Windham is just an OK rider outdoors, right? And he's beaten KW soundly, multiple times.

Also, 2007 Buds Creek, 2007 MXDN, did you see those races? Seems you learn the sport from other posters who are clueless about MX/SX history. Too many people deal in opinions instead of stats. Try looking through the time intervals, lap charts, old video, you might learn something.
WhKnuckle wrote:
The last two years that Reed rode the outdoor series were '05 and '06. In '05 he got 258 points out of 14 starts; in 2006...
The last two years that Reed rode the outdoor series were '05 and '06. In '05 he got 258 points out of 14 starts; in 2006 he got 333 points out of 18 starts. That works out to 18.46 points per start. That's a slightly better than a 4th place average finish. Along with his record this year (4/3, 6/3, 5/2 if I remember right), that makes him about a top-five guy, just like I said.
WK, this is really funny. I've corrected your math in the past, but with this post, there is no need to check. Your logic is screwed. Remember, points are measured against other riders points. You'll have to do your homework project for all other rides. So go to your room and finish your homework and I'll check it later.


2006, after Spring Creek, Chads last race of the season, including his 0 point last moto, Chad was 2nd to RC with a 40 point lead on KW. 40 points
toroP
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toroP 6/9/2009 7:35am
6/9/2009 7:35am
WhKnuckle wrote:
He went 5-2 yesterday. That's without Villo in there. That looks like a top five guy to me. I think he has a 4-3, 7-3 and...
He went 5-2 yesterday. That's without Villo in there. That looks like a top five guy to me. I think he has a 4-3, 7-3 and a 5-2. What do you call that?
I call it, 2nd in points, and early in the season. But for you, even if he was leading points, it would still just be top five, right?Wink
Butters
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Butters 6/9/2009 8:20am
6/9/2009 8:20am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:19am
The Wiz wrote:
With Alessi's injury today, this Championship is going to be won by the most consistent at loosing all time, Chad Reed. Reed can't make the podium...
With Alessi's injury today, this Championship is going to be won by the most consistent at loosing all time, Chad Reed. Reed can't make the podium and now he's in line to win this championship. I'm sick!
Stick with what you know...



MX558
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MX558 6/9/2009 11:06am
6/9/2009 11:06am
WhKnuckle wrote:
I didn't have a meltdown after A1 - you're confusing me with someone else. And I never had anything against Reed until he mouthed off about...
I didn't have a meltdown after A1 - you're confusing me with someone else. And I never had anything against Reed until he mouthed off about what a terrible life it was to have to race the Nationals and whined about the tracks, whined about the pits, whined about the bike. Heck, I never felt so bad for a rider in my life than I did for Reed in '04 when he got that stupid fuel penalty and his parents came all the way from Australia to see him win the title in SLC but he wound up not winning until the next week and they had to go home. I thought that was the worst injustice ever done to a rider. But it doesn't matter how anyone feels about any rider, what he does on the track is his career - and Reed's career outdoors hasn't been great.

I will admit I'm a big Short fan. He went to a real school, came into the pro ranks on the Motoworld team and didn't have great equipment and worked his ass off to get where he is, and he appreciates it. Here's a piece from his interview on Racer X today:

What is it about you that keeps you motivated? Have you ever run into burnout? And if you have, what do you do to avoid it?

I love to ride! I’ll always love to ride, but I’ve raced so much in the last year since I moved up, and I haven’t gotten a break, but I know it’s not going to last forever. I’m really lucky to be living my dream and I don’t want to give anything up while it’s here. Also, I do get burnt out when I’m in California for too long because you just drive and sit in traffic, and the tracks are burnt out, and after a while you just want to go home and chill out. I think everybody can find something negative about their job, and if that’s the only thing I have to complain about, I have it really good. I just try and keep an open outlook on it. I love what I do. It’ll be a bummer when I have to drive down to the dealer and buy a bike because I’m so spoiled right now to do what I do.

It doesn't make a bit of difference who I root for, but if I'm rooting for someone, it's Short. And besides that, I think Short has a better shot than Reed.
race wrote:
Holy fuck, do you ever shut up about Reed? Any post about Reed is GUARANTEED to have you whining about him in it. Give it a...
Holy fuck, do you ever shut up about Reed?

Any post about Reed is GUARANTEED to have you whining about him in it. Give it a rest and layoff the haterade for once.





WhKnuckle wrote:
Do YOU ever shut up about Reed? That goes both ways, pal. Let me tell you something - I've had a rod in my left femur...
Do YOU ever shut up about Reed? That goes both ways, pal.

Let me tell you something - I've had a rod in my left femur for 33 years and my leg looks like a road map from all the surgeries they did to put that leg back together. It was 2 years before I could walk after that. I have arthritis in my left ankle and I have to run every day to keep it under control. I have a collarbone and three ribs that stick out. I started racing on a AT2MX in 1970 and I've raced Yamahas, Rickmans, Hondas, Husqvarnas, Maicos and KTMs. In short, I have every right in the world to cheer for whoever I want. So go fuck yourself.
but your still a dick
googs
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googs 6/9/2009 7:59pm
6/9/2009 7:59pm
The Wiz wrote:
With Alessi's injury today, this Championship is going to be won by the most consistent at loosing all time, Chad Reed. Reed can't make the podium...
With Alessi's injury today, this Championship is going to be won by the most consistent at loosing all time, Chad Reed. Reed can't make the podium and now he's in line to win this championship. I'm sick!
great first post...........U R OBVIOUSLY A TOOL.............

welcome.........
j2one2
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j2one2 6/9/2009 8:03pm
6/9/2009 8:03pm
does anyone know what track mike was at? just curious.
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worcsracer808 6/9/2009 8:42pm
6/9/2009 8:42pm
gea521 wrote:
Didnt know Alessi was already the champ cause he won 2 races. Did you think Alessi got a freebee when Villopoto got hurt cause Villo won...
Didnt know Alessi was already the champ cause he won 2 races. Did you think Alessi got a freebee when Villopoto got hurt cause Villo won the first race? Staying healthy is part of winning championships. Anyone who's raced knows that much. I don't think there's any easy path to being a champ in the outdoors, no matter who's racing and who isn't. There will probably be a couple more before the season is over who get hurt. Whoever wins it deserves it.

Too bad for suzuki cause they had a good chance at an outdoor championship before Mike goes to L&M.
haha I don't think people realize how tough the outdoors are and are labeling everyone champs before they really got to prove themselevs, I thought it would be a 3 way battle between alessi, villo, and reed. I guess bubba made it look too easy last year. lol
Ozzy
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Ozzy 6/9/2009 10:10pm
6/9/2009 10:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:20am
Look ALL lovers n haters........
Reed this, Mikey that, RV is...,
Shorty that, IT9, & so on, that's racing!
Half the battle is just being!
The other half is being there when it counts
& going the distance, just like in horse racing.
Anything can & will happen & many times it does as it
certainly is here.
Sure it's frustrating for us, but just look at RV, now Mike, Jesseman,
even Reed's not 100%.
Championship racing at this level is brutal.
The Outdoors really brings it all to the surface, & those who
survive, rise to the top!
Onwards................Mt. Morris, PA.
Dave O. Wink
Woohoo "Bummer to all that are hurt, & get well soon!"Woohoo
catatonic
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catatonic 6/10/2009 4:15am
6/10/2009 4:15am
Void Main wrote:
Ad hom?
Thats what I was thinking too.
avoid the well....the water is no good.

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