Seat bounce

-MAVERICK-
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6/14/2020 12:51pm
Gravel wrote:
Thanks Maverick Is he setting up to forcefully lift the bike? As an old desert guy, I’m seeing a cure to the classic flying W, if...
Thanks Maverick

Is he setting up to forcefully lift the bike?

As an old desert guy, I’m seeing a cure to the classic flying W, if I was coordinated enough to actually do it at the right place and time, lol.. or maybe it’d just let me endo while firmly in the seat..
I couldn't tell you why he's doing it. He's not the only guy doing it either. Probably doing it out of habit.

Maybe doing it to be better planted on the seat?
mulletman
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6/14/2020 5:53pm
Gravel wrote:
What about the Eli’s foot being under the frame/peg? That can’t be just an accident, it looks like he’s pulling up.. Why beat an old, extremely...
What about the Eli’s foot being under the frame/peg? That can’t be just an accident, it looks like he’s pulling up..

Why beat an old, extremely dead horse, when there’s a new one?!?
I don’t know about Eli’s pegs, but mine fold up when you pull up on them.
mulletman
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6/14/2020 6:17pm
seth505 wrote:
Force...potential energy. There is more at play than the rear shock. Shove the bike into the face of the jump so the suspension collapses, the frame...
Force...potential energy. There is more at play than the rear shock. Shove the bike into the face of the jump so the suspension collapses, the frame and chassis parts flex extra hard...That causes a reaction that will absolutely boot you up on a higher trajectory.

How do people think you can pump a bicycle when it has no shocks and no motor, yet you can pick up speed without pedaling?
So can you pump a bicycle up a hill then?
seth505
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6/15/2020 7:11am
mulletman wrote:
So can you pump a bicycle up a hill then?
Yes.

The Shop

mulletman
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6/15/2020 10:06am
mulletman wrote:
So can you pump a bicycle up a hill then?
seth505 wrote:
Yes.
Should’ve been more clear. Up a steady incline?

So you are saying that loading/flexing a bicycle frame in the downward direction is propelling it forward, right? How?



seth505
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6/15/2020 10:26am
mulletman wrote:
So can you pump a bicycle up a hill then?
seth505 wrote:
Yes.
mulletman wrote:
Should’ve been more clear. Up a [i]steady[/i] incline? So you are saying that loading/flexing a bicycle frame in the downward direction is propelling it forward, right...
Should’ve been more clear. Up a steady incline?

So you are saying that loading/flexing a bicycle frame in the downward direction is propelling it forward, right? How?



I guess if you're strong enough you could keep going up an incline with rollers? Depends on how much work you put in I think [W=F*d]. We have a local pump track that has one section on a down slope and another side on an up slope and I pick up speed going up the incline if I use the right technique.
Maybe you thought I meant that you could push on an angled hill and somehow get up it? Sorry, I was assuming having some type of feature to help manipulate your motion. Just like a jump face, your trajectory will depend on a lot including whether or not you seat bounce.
kkawboy14
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6/15/2020 11:02am
So.....with no rear shock it will bounce this high and then with a rear shock it will bounce the same height?
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STLSharky
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6/15/2020 11:15am
EngIceDave wrote:
A TFS experiment (physical or mental) If you took your motorcycle and four (4) tiedowns, and compressed your bike's suspension as far as possible, and were...
A TFS experiment (physical or mental)

If you took your motorcycle and four (4) tiedowns, and compressed your bike's suspension as far as possible, and were able to simultaneously release all four tiedowns, all at once....

Will the bike leap up off the ground several inches, actually getting "air," or would the shocks just rebound the bike to its standard position?
aees wrote:
It is not the same thing. You have several Gs in force that you experience when you go into a jump face, not so much on...
It is not the same thing. You have several Gs in force that you experience when you go into a jump face, not so much on flat ground.

It is a combination of loading the suspension with body position and throttle, as well as taking weight of the seat just before wheels leave the jump face and lifting the bike a bit since you move fwd in the process.

If seat bounce does not work, neither does scrubbing or absorbing suspension travel with legs since it is the direct opposite of seat bounce.

Two persons going up a jump face all things being equal, one will seat bounce I promise you that bike if going higher then the other.

Extra height is typically what you want when seat bouncing, so you don't run the front wheel to short coming into landing or next jump.
I;ts actually the surface your slamming into is pushing bike back and up and away from flat facing surface, Bruhn
always argued if you push straight down on a damped suspended bike it doesnt bounce back.. We get that.
kkawboy14
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6/15/2020 11:41am
“Bounce” is literally in the definition of “rebound”!


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brraap741
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6/15/2020 11:59am
Ok if the damping is fixed and counters spring force (perfectly so there can be no hop), then what hell does that little screw labeled REB do? Asking for a friend.
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kkawboy14
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6/15/2020 12:15pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2020 6:05pm
brraap741 wrote:
Ok if the damping is fixed and counters spring force (perfectly so there can be no hop), then what hell does that little screw labeled REB...
Ok if the damping is fixed and counters spring force (perfectly so there can be no hop), then what hell does that little screw labeled REB do? Asking for a friend.
Exactly!

The reason we set the sag and rebound properly is because if the spring is cranked down to tight and the rear end is rebounding to fast it will literally bounce the rear end over the front end off the face of a jump!
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abn166
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6/15/2020 12:54pm
brraap741 wrote:
Ok if the damping is fixed and counters spring force (perfectly so there can be no hop), then what hell does that little screw labeled REB...
Ok if the damping is fixed and counters spring force (perfectly so there can be no hop), then what hell does that little screw labeled REB do? Asking for a friend.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Exactly! The reason we set the sag and rebound properly is because if the spring is cranked down to tight and the rear end is rebounding...
Exactly!

The reason we set the sag and rebound properly is because if the spring is cranked down to tight and the rear end is rebounding to fast it will literally bounce the rear end over the front end off the face of a jump!
Actually, that is completely wrong.
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kkawboy14
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6/15/2020 6:03pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2020 6:04pm
brraap741 wrote:
Ok if the damping is fixed and counters spring force (perfectly so there can be no hop), then what hell does that little screw labeled REB...
Ok if the damping is fixed and counters spring force (perfectly so there can be no hop), then what hell does that little screw labeled REB do? Asking for a friend.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Exactly! The reason we set the sag and rebound properly is because if the spring is cranked down to tight and the rear end is rebounding...
Exactly!

The reason we set the sag and rebound properly is because if the spring is cranked down to tight and the rear end is rebounding to fast it will literally bounce the rear end over the front end off the face of a jump!
abn166 wrote:
Actually, that is completely wrong.
Momma says your wrong Colonel Sanders!
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SKIDLID
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6/15/2020 6:43pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Exactly! The reason we set the sag and rebound properly is because if the spring is cranked down to tight and the rear end is rebounding...
Exactly!

The reason we set the sag and rebound properly is because if the spring is cranked down to tight and the rear end is rebounding to fast it will literally bounce the rear end over the front end off the face of a jump!
abn166 wrote:
Actually, that is completely wrong.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Momma says your wrong Colonel Sanders!
I have no idea who is right but I know it works and love The Water Boy reference!
Sierra Ranger
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6/16/2020 11:54am
Gravel wrote:
What about the Eli’s foot being under the frame/peg? That can’t be just an accident, it looks like he’s pulling up.. Why beat an old, extremely...
What about the Eli’s foot being under the frame/peg? That can’t be just an accident, it looks like he’s pulling up..

Why beat an old, extremely dead horse, when there’s a new one?!?
mulletman wrote:
I don’t know about Eli’s pegs, but mine fold up when you pull up on them.
It looks more like he's hooking his feet on the frame.
If you start paying attention in photos, it's crazy how often riders feet are off the pegs and in weird positions.
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mulletman
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6/16/2020 4:54pm
seth505 wrote:
Force...potential energy. There is more at play than the rear shock. Shove the bike into the face of the jump so the suspension collapses, the frame...
Force...potential energy. There is more at play than the rear shock. Shove the bike into the face of the jump so the suspension collapses, the frame and chassis parts flex extra hard...That causes a reaction that will absolutely boot you up on a higher trajectory.

How do people think you can pump a bicycle when it has no shocks and no motor, yet you can pick up speed without pedaling?
Let’s go back to this. The motorcycle wants to go forward, the jump is forcing it to change directions, the bike is also accelerating up the face..... all this causes the bike to basically bottom out, gain better traction, and follow the actual face of the jump (which results in a higher trajectory). The suspension does not have enough time to unload and you can also see the rear wheel isn’t unloaded until the bike is off the ground.

The pump track only works because the rollers cause a difference in height. Time going up the face with being as light as possible with the exact opposite on the back and you end up accelerating.

Flexing the frame on a bicycle has nothing major to do with a pump track. Think about this: you can only put force into a bicycle frame by loading it vertically through the wheels. If the wheels/ground cause a reaction force, how could that propel in you the horizontal direction?

Also, if loading up the bike frame did cause any type of acceleration, you would see truly weird things happen when you flat land bc that is much higher force than you generate on a pump track.
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mulletman
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6/16/2020 7:00pm
Falcon wrote:
Long after I saw that thread I realized why the seat bounce works. I don't think anybody mentioned it, but it is this: "Timing." TFS's contention...
Long after I saw that thread I realized why the seat bounce works. I don't think anybody mentioned it, but it is this: "Timing."

TFS's contention was that the spring can only return the same amount of force back to the bike; enough to return the seat to its original position. No more, no less.
Seat bouncers believe that by sitting, you put more force into the shock spring, which then returns more force.

Actually, the answer lies between the inertia of the subframe assembly and the rider's inertia, relative to the footpegs as a moment in time. If the rider sits, and then allows the spring to push his body along with the subframe, it changes the interplay between the bike and rider. The spring can only push the subframe back to its original position, true, but it cannot stop the rider's momentum once it gets there. The rider will continue to move upward and bring the bike with him (assuming he holds on). While standing tends to isolate the bike from the rider and thus dampen the rebound force, sitting pairs them, thus maximizing the rebound force.

One argument the non-bouncers forwarded was that "if seat bouncing works, why don't the bikes bounce off the ground when they land?" Look no further than the tabletop-to-tabletop hop that was popular several seasons ago for the answer: they do, when the rider times the landing accordingly.

Seat bouncing is not about more force in the spring; it is about timing the interplay between the rider's own momentum and the bike's.
I think you’re a very good writer who has duped most people on here lol.

The table to table argument doesn’t involve seat bouncing. All the ones I remember involved standing and most had a slight incline at the end. I also remember how many rear wheels clipped the face of the next table. And are you saying that jumping up and landing on a tabletop can cause a bike to bounce, but Tomac and crew airing it out over HUGE singles and flat landing doesn’t cause the same reaction? Both situations is a flat landing with the riders on the throttle. I’ve seen this with sx and mx suspension with the same reaction.


Here’s the only “moments in time” that matters. Look at the rear shock. Compressed until the same time you see the tire rebound to its original shape,
which is when the rear wheel leaves the ground.




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kkawboy14
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6/16/2020 8:18pm
abn166 wrote:
Actually, that is completely wrong.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Momma says your wrong Colonel Sanders!
SKIDLID wrote:
I have no idea who is right but I know it works and love The Water Boy reference!
Thanks 😂
TeamGreen
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6/16/2020 8:20pm
Gravel wrote:
Thanks Maverick Is he setting up to forcefully lift the bike? As an old desert guy, I’m seeing a cure to the classic flying W, if...
Thanks Maverick

Is he setting up to forcefully lift the bike?

As an old desert guy, I’m seeing a cure to the classic flying W, if I was coordinated enough to actually do it at the right place and time, lol.. or maybe it’d just let me endo while firmly in the seat..
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I couldn't tell you why he's doing it. He's not the only guy doing it either. Probably doing it out of habit. Maybe doing it to...
I couldn't tell you why he's doing it. He's not the only guy doing it either. Probably doing it out of habit.

Maybe doing it to be better planted on the seat?
He’s hanging on to the bike by reaching under the peg-.clevis.
kkawboy14
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6/16/2020 8:21pm
Gravel wrote:
Thanks Maverick Is he setting up to forcefully lift the bike? As an old desert guy, I’m seeing a cure to the classic flying W, if...
Thanks Maverick

Is he setting up to forcefully lift the bike?

As an old desert guy, I’m seeing a cure to the classic flying W, if I was coordinated enough to actually do it at the right place and time, lol.. or maybe it’d just let me endo while firmly in the seat..
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I couldn't tell you why he's doing it. He's not the only guy doing it either. Probably doing it out of habit. Maybe doing it to...
I couldn't tell you why he's doing it. He's not the only guy doing it either. Probably doing it out of habit.

Maybe doing it to be better planted on the seat?
TeamGreen wrote:
He’s hanging on to the bike by reaching under the peg-.clevis.
DUDE we know that....tell us why he’s doing that 😀
TeamGreen
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6/16/2020 8:26pm Edited Date/Time 6/16/2020 8:57pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I couldn't tell you why he's doing it. He's not the only guy doing it either. Probably doing it out of habit. Maybe doing it to...
I couldn't tell you why he's doing it. He's not the only guy doing it either. Probably doing it out of habit.

Maybe doing it to be better planted on the seat?
TeamGreen wrote:
He’s hanging on to the bike by reaching under the peg-.clevis.
kkawboy14 wrote:
DUDE we know that....tell us why he’s doing that 😀
Longer “sustain” on the compress...keeps you planted on the seat longer & you don’t get “launched” off the seat/bike as quickly. Waaaay less lost energy.
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face biter
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6/16/2020 8:29pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I couldn't tell you why he's doing it. He's not the only guy doing it either. Probably doing it out of habit. Maybe doing it to...
I couldn't tell you why he's doing it. He's not the only guy doing it either. Probably doing it out of habit.

Maybe doing it to be better planted on the seat?
TeamGreen wrote:
He’s hanging on to the bike by reaching under the peg-.clevis.
kkawboy14 wrote:
DUDE we know that....tell us why he’s doing that 😀
I’ve seen plenty of people doing that when hitting a jump right out of a corner, I don’t know if that’s why he is doing it in that picture though.
seth505
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6/16/2020 11:04pm
seth505 wrote:
Force...potential energy. There is more at play than the rear shock. Shove the bike into the face of the jump so the suspension collapses, the frame...
Force...potential energy. There is more at play than the rear shock. Shove the bike into the face of the jump so the suspension collapses, the frame and chassis parts flex extra hard...That causes a reaction that will absolutely boot you up on a higher trajectory.

How do people think you can pump a bicycle when it has no shocks and no motor, yet you can pick up speed without pedaling?
mulletman wrote:
Let’s go back to this. The motorcycle wants to go forward, the jump is forcing it to change directions, the bike is also accelerating up the...
Let’s go back to this. The motorcycle wants to go forward, the jump is forcing it to change directions, the bike is also accelerating up the face..... all this causes the bike to basically bottom out, gain better traction, and follow the actual face of the jump (which results in a higher trajectory). The suspension does not have enough time to unload and you can also see the rear wheel isn’t unloaded until the bike is off the ground.

The pump track only works because the rollers cause a difference in height. Time going up the face with being as light as possible with the exact opposite on the back and you end up accelerating.

Flexing the frame on a bicycle has nothing major to do with a pump track. Think about this: you can only put force into a bicycle frame by loading it vertically through the wheels. If the wheels/ground cause a reaction force, how could that propel in you the horizontal direction?

Also, if loading up the bike frame did cause any type of acceleration, you would see truly weird things happen when you flat land bc that is much higher force than you generate on a pump track.
Gonna be honest, not sure where you’re goin with that stuff. There are plenty of instances where a bmx (rigid) has landed flat and bounced due to landing so harsh.
mulletman
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6/17/2020 6:34am Edited Date/Time 6/17/2020 6:35am
seth505 wrote:
Gonna be honest, not sure where you’re goin with that stuff. There are plenty of instances where a bmx (rigid) has landed flat and bounced due...
Gonna be honest, not sure where you’re goin with that stuff. There are plenty of instances where a bmx (rigid) has landed flat and bounced due to landing so harsh.
Exactly. The direction is back up. It’s not propelling the bike forward.
motomike137
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6/17/2020 7:54am
This a great thread/debate lol. My 2 cents is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You use your body weight the bikes mass and speed to compress suspension and bike hard into the face of the jump, the spring is trying to stop you the shock is trying to slow it all down and the jump face has the last word and stops your forward momentum. Now your job is to help the shock control the reaction put into you and the bike by the jump face so in a split second you help the bike stay level by subtlety weighting or not weighting the pegs, rolling your weight up and forward and even pulling up on the bars. Yes the shock is trying to settle everything down but the spring and the jump face have other ideas. If it didn't work a pogo stick wouldn't bounce.
FWYT
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6/17/2020 8:55am
Man, Teefus would be so proud!
Falcon
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6/17/2020 11:06am
Falcon wrote:
Long after I saw that thread I realized why the seat bounce works. I don't think anybody mentioned it, but it is this: "Timing." TFS's contention...
Long after I saw that thread I realized why the seat bounce works. I don't think anybody mentioned it, but it is this: "Timing."

TFS's contention was that the spring can only return the same amount of force back to the bike; enough to return the seat to its original position. No more, no less.
Seat bouncers believe that by sitting, you put more force into the shock spring, which then returns more force.

Actually, the answer lies between the inertia of the subframe assembly and the rider's inertia, relative to the footpegs as a moment in time. If the rider sits, and then allows the spring to push his body along with the subframe, it changes the interplay between the bike and rider. The spring can only push the subframe back to its original position, true, but it cannot stop the rider's momentum once it gets there. The rider will continue to move upward and bring the bike with him (assuming he holds on). While standing tends to isolate the bike from the rider and thus dampen the rebound force, sitting pairs them, thus maximizing the rebound force.

One argument the non-bouncers forwarded was that "if seat bouncing works, why don't the bikes bounce off the ground when they land?" Look no further than the tabletop-to-tabletop hop that was popular several seasons ago for the answer: they do, when the rider times the landing accordingly.

Seat bouncing is not about more force in the spring; it is about timing the interplay between the rider's own momentum and the bike's.
mulletman wrote:
I think you’re a very good writer who has duped most people on here lol. The table to table argument doesn’t involve seat bouncing. All the...
I think you’re a very good writer who has duped most people on here lol.

The table to table argument doesn’t involve seat bouncing. All the ones I remember involved standing and most had a slight incline at the end. I also remember how many rear wheels clipped the face of the next table. And are you saying that jumping up and landing on a tabletop can cause a bike to bounce, but Tomac and crew airing it out over HUGE singles and flat landing doesn’t cause the same reaction? Both situations is a flat landing with the riders on the throttle. I’ve seen this with sx and mx suspension with the same reaction.


Here’s the only “moments in time” that matters. Look at the rear shock. Compressed until the same time you see the tire rebound to its original shape,
which is when the rear wheel leaves the ground.




Again, timing. Are you telling me that Tomac couldn't bunny hop or time his landing in such a way as to make the bike bounce after landing? Does his own mass and inertia not have any effect on the motorcycle? Clearly it does. I'd be willing to bet he could land from a single jump and use the rebound from the suspension to lift the bike substantially. This is what I suspect is happening in the tabletop to tabletop reference. You've seen video of somebody landing in slop, coming to a dead stop and then getting sprung up and over his bars, no doubt? Not all of that is the result of his forward momentum.

Seat bouncing works because riders time the release of the spring to coincide with their upward momentum, thus pairing their own mass to the bike's. They can just as easily cancel out the spring by standing and soaking up some of the upward momentum with their legs and/or turning the bike at the right time. (Scrub to stay low, seat bounce to go high.)

I'd like to see more pictures like the ones above, done in several passes, some standing and some sitting. I think they would illustrate what I'm saying: that the shock can be purposely compressed more by the rider's judicious application of weight at the right time; that it travels downward until a specific point in time, when it begins to return (and does not remain "compressed" the entire time up the jump face, but rather begins to rebound); and that a skilled rider can time those events to minimize or maximize the upward velocity from the energy returned by the shock spring.
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rjg
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6/17/2020 2:53pm
Eliminate your static sag if you want to pogo
mulletman
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6/19/2020 6:33pm
This a great thread/debate lol. My 2 cents is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You use your body weight the...
This a great thread/debate lol. My 2 cents is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You use your body weight the bikes mass and speed to compress suspension and bike hard into the face of the jump, the spring is trying to stop you the shock is trying to slow it all down and the jump face has the last word and stops your forward momentum. Now your job is to help the shock control the reaction put into you and the bike by the jump face so in a split second you help the bike stay level by subtlety weighting or not weighting the pegs, rolling your weight up and forward and even pulling up on the bars. Yes the shock is trying to settle everything down but the spring and the jump face have other ideas. If it didn't work a pogo stick wouldn't bounce.
I agree, it’s at least entertaining for a few of us. But the jump doesn’t stop your forward momentum. That would be a wall haha.

And a pogo stick has no damping to control rebound.
mulletman
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6/19/2020 7:40pm
Falcon wrote:
Long after I saw that thread I realized why the seat bounce works. I don't think anybody mentioned it, but it is this: "Timing." TFS's contention...
Long after I saw that thread I realized why the seat bounce works. I don't think anybody mentioned it, but it is this: "Timing."

TFS's contention was that the spring can only return the same amount of force back to the bike; enough to return the seat to its original position. No more, no less.
Seat bouncers believe that by sitting, you put more force into the shock spring, which then returns more force.

Actually, the answer lies between the inertia of the subframe assembly and the rider's inertia, relative to the footpegs as a moment in time. If the rider sits, and then allows the spring to push his body along with the subframe, it changes the interplay between the bike and rider. The spring can only push the subframe back to its original position, true, but it cannot stop the rider's momentum once it gets there. The rider will continue to move upward and bring the bike with him (assuming he holds on). While standing tends to isolate the bike from the rider and thus dampen the rebound force, sitting pairs them, thus maximizing the rebound force.

One argument the non-bouncers forwarded was that "if seat bouncing works, why don't the bikes bounce off the ground when they land?" Look no further than the tabletop-to-tabletop hop that was popular several seasons ago for the answer: they do, when the rider times the landing accordingly.

Seat bouncing is not about more force in the spring; it is about timing the interplay between the rider's own momentum and the bike's.
mulletman wrote:
I think you’re a very good writer who has duped most people on here lol. The table to table argument doesn’t involve seat bouncing. All the...
I think you’re a very good writer who has duped most people on here lol.

The table to table argument doesn’t involve seat bouncing. All the ones I remember involved standing and most had a slight incline at the end. I also remember how many rear wheels clipped the face of the next table. And are you saying that jumping up and landing on a tabletop can cause a bike to bounce, but Tomac and crew airing it out over HUGE singles and flat landing doesn’t cause the same reaction? Both situations is a flat landing with the riders on the throttle. I’ve seen this with sx and mx suspension with the same reaction.


Here’s the only “moments in time” that matters. Look at the rear shock. Compressed until the same time you see the tire rebound to its original shape,
which is when the rear wheel leaves the ground.




Falcon wrote:
Again, timing. Are you telling me that Tomac couldn't bunny hop or time his landing in such a way as to make the bike bounce after...
Again, timing. Are you telling me that Tomac couldn't bunny hop or time his landing in such a way as to make the bike bounce after landing? Does his own mass and inertia not have any effect on the motorcycle? Clearly it does. I'd be willing to bet he could land from a single jump and use the rebound from the suspension to lift the bike substantially. This is what I suspect is happening in the tabletop to tabletop reference. You've seen video of somebody landing in slop, coming to a dead stop and then getting sprung up and over his bars, no doubt? Not all of that is the result of his forward momentum.

Seat bouncing works because riders time the release of the spring to coincide with their upward momentum, thus pairing their own mass to the bike's. They can just as easily cancel out the spring by standing and soaking up some of the upward momentum with their legs and/or turning the bike at the right time. (Scrub to stay low, seat bounce to go high.)

I'd like to see more pictures like the ones above, done in several passes, some standing and some sitting. I think they would illustrate what I'm saying: that the shock can be purposely compressed more by the rider's judicious application of weight at the right time; that it travels downward until a specific point in time, when it begins to return (and does not remain "compressed" the entire time up the jump face, but rather begins to rebound); and that a skilled rider can time those events to minimize or maximize the upward velocity from the energy returned by the shock spring.
A bunny hop is not the same thing as a seat bounce. You are literally snatching up on the bars. I’m no pro, but I’ve seat bounced many things and never once tried to lift the bike or “time” anything. Not to mention, I’ve seen the pros seat bounce with their inside foot off the peg. Seems like it would be hard to “re-couple” or whatever with the bike with one leg hanging off.

You mention mass of rider. Why? Projectile motion doesn’t care about mass. The bike is bottomed out and doesn’t unload until you’re off the face, so it doesn’t matter if you weigh 150lb or 200lb. All that matters on take off is speed and launch angle. And that’s exactly what seat bouncing gives you more of.

I’ve already posted pics (literally the first video I found on YouTube) and you’re basically ignoring the fact it shows exactly what I’m saying.

Last thing, if it really is the rear shock springing back that causes extra distance, then:

1. Why doesn’t the bike nose over immediately if all the force is being provided from the rear spring?

2. At what point would the shock begin to unload and why do we not see wheel spin at some point on the jump face?

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