90s Grand Prix and Euro-track questions...

mx_563
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Edited Date/Time 6/4/2020 2:13pm
I'm addicted to the Motovision series. Currently on the 1995 season.

Can anyone tell me why the riders changed numbers mid-season? Jimmy button started out as #59 and mid season became #71. Several other riders changed numbers as well. I would love to understand why.

For the Belgians...what ever happened to the Kesterheide track? Looks pretty cool. Reminds me of a flatter and narrower Washougal with all the trees.

For the N. Irish....where was the Ballykelly track? Was it on the East side of town on Tully Road? What happened to that track?

So much to dissect in these Motovision videos. I'm really enjoying them. The track diversity of the GPs in the 90s is amazing. San Marino 1995 makes Carlsbad look loamy. Haha!
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Adam43
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5/29/2020 7:45am
I believe for a number of years that GP numbers weren't fixed, and could change from event to event. A rider would be given preference for his home GP, etc.

Motovision series are unreal. Can't believe I'm getting old enough that it is now considered history!
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5/29/2020 12:46pm Edited Date/Time 5/29/2020 2:11pm
During the nineties, the number system in MX World Championship was in fact very simple.
It was based on riders rank the year before.
And riders who came from another class or another kind of championship (like US or australian championship for example) without having score any points the year before didnt have a regular number all year long...
Like Button in 125 MX World Championship in 1995.
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JMX82
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5/29/2020 1:00pm
I watched -94 250 season review. Epic tracks and great battles between Albertyn and Everts. It truly reminded me how great the GP's used to be. Real motocross tracks, large crowds, close racing and two strokes. It's really sad that many of the iconic tracks aren't used anymore because they don't comply with Luongos demands. There used to be alot more variation in tracks than today
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ATKpilot99
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5/29/2020 1:33pm
JMX82 wrote:
I watched -94 250 season review. Epic tracks and great battles between Albertyn and Everts. It truly reminded me how great the GP's used to be...
I watched -94 250 season review. Epic tracks and great battles between Albertyn and Everts. It truly reminded me how great the GP's used to be. Real motocross tracks, large crowds, close racing and two strokes. It's really sad that many of the iconic tracks aren't used anymore because they don't comply with Luongos demands. There used to be alot more variation in tracks than today
Check out the 94 Open championship also . Jacky Martens was the defending champ on his 600 4 stroke Husky. I hope they put the 93 Open class season up also the year he won it and the beginning of the 4 stroke revolution.
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MXMattii
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5/29/2020 3:30pm
The original Kester, what we called the Kesterheide Track had some great Grand Prix races till 2000. It had also a new deal for x-years after 2000, but YS bought those rights to organize back, and sold it to a other Belgian organizer. Dunno who for sure (have a book about the history of the Kester Club).

After 2000 the club organized great races for the Belgian Championship till 2015. Then the ground got sold and the family selling it, got into a beef with the club and chose to sell it to an "nature-loving" association called "Natuurpunt" who had other plans with the area. Now the club is fighting to survive because the new track has no history and create a new legacy in a country like Belgium where motocross is pretty death at the moment isn't simple.



(If you search Motocross Kesterheide you will find a ton of cool footage.)
5/29/2020 8:57pm
I ordered a few Duke videos of 125, 250 gp,s. From an ad in the cycle news. 95 125 was a great series. I Loved watching Jimmy Button and puzar, great style and technique. The build up to the Last round was great, puzar entering and flowing corners is text book. 97, 99 125 was awesome too. Erik Eggins Dutch rider cornering was like a shark cornering- amazing technique. Slow mo the Dutch round and check the people out. There will be groups of 2 hot chics all over the track. I even Bought 500 gp tapes, just to check more tracks out. I had a offer to ride a couple Dutch nationals. With a small shop team, with no Salary. I have a lot of relatives in Holland, a cousin that was 2nd in sidecar mxSmile . I got my passport , then got hurt. I would have been maybe 15th to 18th, fader at the finish. I was going to bring a noleen yz125 cylinder, pipe, ohlins shock, triple clamp -applied. Goal was to try to lead a part of 1 Lap, practiced a lot of starts and my weight was as low as I can get 162lbs. The Dutch are super fast sand riders, 1/2 lap In I would be like a biplane getting run down by a f16 jet. Haha
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pmcc
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5/30/2020 1:24am Edited Date/Time 5/30/2020 1:33am
Ballykelly was a fantastic track built in an old sand quarry, unfortunately its no longer used as I think they opened it back up as I quarry. It held the 500 gp in 1994 and 1995 then mxgp in 2004.

It used to hold the Easter 2 day event for the Ulster championship every year and was unbelievablely rough.

I cant remember the year it was shut maybe around 2010 or soBlush

Here was the location can still make out most of the out line of the track.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/BbcZbBcJ58hcu4nt9
mx_563
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6/1/2020 10:08am
During the nineties, the number system in MX World Championship was in fact very simple. It was based on riders rank the year before. And riders...
During the nineties, the number system in MX World Championship was in fact very simple.
It was based on riders rank the year before.
And riders who came from another class or another kind of championship (like US or australian championship for example) without having score any points the year before didnt have a regular number all year long...
Like Button in 125 MX World Championship in 1995.
1995 125cc GP of Czech Republic, Round #8, Jimmy Button #59


1995 125cc GP of San Marino, Round #9, Jimmy Button #71


1995 125cc GP of France, Round #10, Jimmy Button #59



Why????


Here is Alessandro Puzar in 1995 at round #10 in France, he is #75


Here is Alessandro Puzar in 1995 at round #12 in Germnay, he is #111



And it's not just the 125 class....the 250 class had a few riders switch numbers mid-season as well...

Pit Beirer in 1995 at round #3 in Switzerland, he is #76


And here is Pit Beirer in 1995 at round #7 is Sweden, he is #61


This affected Badar Manneh who had been #61 up to that point....

This is very confusing. Why was it necessary to switch numbers mid season?






1
6/1/2020 10:54pm
I hit your Link, watched 97 250 have the tape also. And 98 fox hills 125. 1st moto was awesome. Chiodi on flat corners is impressive, Carl Nunn ran him down Looked Like Broc Sellards style a little. They battled for the lead, DV 12. Then comes out of no where into 2nd. Puzar was up front both motos. Crowd was really Loud.
109
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6/1/2020 11:10pm
With the numbering I believe you’ll find that the riders from the previous year were numbered #1 to 40ish. Those were permanent numbers for the season.

At this time there really wasn’t one central promoter. Each race was individual and ran under FIM rules. So each local promoter would take entries and assign numbers to non ranked riders on their own terms. Hence why Puzar was #75 but at fox hill he was 77 then somewhere else 111.

So essentially a wild car would have entered through their local promoter with 75 forcing him to change his number and visa versa
6/1/2020 11:47pm
I hit your Link, watched 97 250 have the tape also. And 98 fox hills 125. 1st moto was awesome. Chiodi on flat corners is impressive...
I hit your Link, watched 97 250 have the tape also. And 98 fox hills 125. 1st moto was awesome. Chiodi on flat corners is impressive, Carl Nunn ran him down Looked Like Broc Sellards style a little. They battled for the lead, DV 12. Then comes out of no where into 2nd. Puzar was up front both motos. Crowd was really Loud.
I watched foxhills yesterday too, what a race from our local hero Carl Nunn!
Tortelli in the 250's as well was amazing against everts
1
mx_563
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6/2/2020 7:13am Edited Date/Time 6/2/2020 7:15am
109 wrote:
With the numbering I believe you’ll find that the riders from the previous year were numbered #1 to 40ish. Those were permanent numbers for the season...
With the numbering I believe you’ll find that the riders from the previous year were numbered #1 to 40ish. Those were permanent numbers for the season.

At this time there really wasn’t one central promoter. Each race was individual and ran under FIM rules. So each local promoter would take entries and assign numbers to non ranked riders on their own terms. Hence why Puzar was #75 but at fox hill he was 77 then somewhere else 111.

So essentially a wild car would have entered through their local promoter with 75 forcing him to change his number and visa versa
Ahhh, this would explain it. Thank you.

(Although in Pit's case, once he switched from 76 to 61, he kept it for the remainder of the season, but maybe he just wanted to and nobody had a problem with it)
6/2/2020 1:55pm
During the nineties, the number system in MX World Championship was in fact very simple. It was based on riders rank the year before. And riders...
During the nineties, the number system in MX World Championship was in fact very simple.
It was based on riders rank the year before.
And riders who came from another class or another kind of championship (like US or australian championship for example) without having score any points the year before didnt have a regular number all year long...
Like Button in 125 MX World Championship in 1995.
mx_563 wrote:
1995 125cc GP of Czech Republic, [u]Round #8[/u], Jimmy Button [b]#59[/b] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/06/01/430609/s1200_JB_Czech_Rd8.jpg[/img] 1995 125cc GP of San Marino, [u]Round #9[/u], Jimmy Button [b]#71[/b] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/06/01/430610/s1200_JB_SM_Rd9.jpg[/img] 1995 125cc...
1995 125cc GP of Czech Republic, Round #8, Jimmy Button #59


1995 125cc GP of San Marino, Round #9, Jimmy Button #71


1995 125cc GP of France, Round #10, Jimmy Button #59



Why????


Here is Alessandro Puzar in 1995 at round #10 in France, he is #75


Here is Alessandro Puzar in 1995 at round #12 in Germnay, he is #111



And it's not just the 125 class....the 250 class had a few riders switch numbers mid-season as well...

Pit Beirer in 1995 at round #3 in Switzerland, he is #76


And here is Pit Beirer in 1995 at round #7 is Sweden, he is #61


This affected Badar Manneh who had been #61 up to that point....

This is very confusing. Why was it necessary to switch numbers mid season?






Dont you read what I wrote about it?
Maybe my explanation wasnt clear...
mx_563
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6/2/2020 2:16pm
Dont you read what I wrote about it?
Maybe my explanation wasnt clear...
Yes I did read it but unfortunately it was not clear. That is why I quoted your post in my response.

riders who came from another class or another kind of championship (like US or australian championship for example) without having score any points the year before didnt have a regular number all year long...

This does not explain why the number would change mid-season. It only explains that it could change. But why WOULD it change remained unclear. Just because you don't score points the year before doesn't mean it is impossible to have the same number all year.

109's explanation was more thorough. But I appreciate your attempt to help with my inquiry. Cheers.
6/2/2020 2:37pm Edited Date/Time 6/2/2020 2:37pm
During the nineties, the number system in MX World Championship was in fact very simple. It was based on riders rank the year before. And riders...
During the nineties, the number system in MX World Championship was in fact very simple.
It was based on riders rank the year before.
And riders who came from another class or another kind of championship (like US or australian championship for example) without having score any points the year before didnt have a regular number all year long...
Like Button in 125 MX World Championship in 1995.
mx_563 wrote:
1995 125cc GP of Czech Republic, [u]Round #8[/u], Jimmy Button [b]#59[/b] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/06/01/430609/s1200_JB_Czech_Rd8.jpg[/img] 1995 125cc GP of San Marino, [u]Round #9[/u], Jimmy Button [b]#71[/b] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/06/01/430610/s1200_JB_SM_Rd9.jpg[/img] 1995 125cc...
1995 125cc GP of Czech Republic, Round #8, Jimmy Button #59


1995 125cc GP of San Marino, Round #9, Jimmy Button #71


1995 125cc GP of France, Round #10, Jimmy Button #59



Why????


Here is Alessandro Puzar in 1995 at round #10 in France, he is #75


Here is Alessandro Puzar in 1995 at round #12 in Germnay, he is #111



And it's not just the 125 class....the 250 class had a few riders switch numbers mid-season as well...

Pit Beirer in 1995 at round #3 in Switzerland, he is #76


And here is Pit Beirer in 1995 at round #7 is Sweden, he is #61


This affected Badar Manneh who had been #61 up to that point....

This is very confusing. Why was it necessary to switch numbers mid season?






MX is an extremely secretive niche sport. So much so that some of the established guard ridicule newcomers, hide from media exposure, and yes, switch numbers multiple times mid-season to avoid being identified.
6/2/2020 3:41pm
mx_563 wrote:
Yes I did read it but unfortunately it was not clear. That is why I quoted your post in my response. [i]riders who came from another...
Yes I did read it but unfortunately it was not clear. That is why I quoted your post in my response.

riders who came from another class or another kind of championship (like US or australian championship for example) without having score any points the year before didnt have a regular number all year long...

This does not explain why the number would change mid-season. It only explains that it could change. But why WOULD it change remained unclear. Just because you don't score points the year before doesn't mean it is impossible to have the same number all year.

109's explanation was more thorough. But I appreciate your attempt to help with my inquiry. Cheers.
Sorry, but youre partially wrong about it. The numbers of those riders (like Button, Puzar, and Beirer in 1995) didnt especially change "mid season" like you said. They just changed all year long, in a aleatory way, without any kind of logic, from race to race. Sometimes a rider had the same number for a few GPs in a row, then it changed for one, two or three GPs; after that the rider used again the number he wore at the begining of the year... But no rules at all for the riders who didnt score any points in this class the year before... No rider in this particular situation could wear the same number all year long.
Except a rider who was defending world champ the year before in another class. Those world champs took the first number available in the previous year ranking. And they wore it all year long...
Like Everts in 1992 (#59) 250cc class.
Like Albertyn in 1993 (#67) 250cc class.
Like Moore in 1995 (#41) 250cc class.
All of them were 125cc world champs the year before.
6/2/2020 7:11pm
I hit your Link, watched 97 250 have the tape also. And 98 fox hills 125. 1st moto was awesome. Chiodi on flat corners is impressive...
I hit your Link, watched 97 250 have the tape also. And 98 fox hills 125. 1st moto was awesome. Chiodi on flat corners is impressive, Carl Nunn ran him down Looked Like Broc Sellards style a little. They battled for the lead, DV 12. Then comes out of no where into 2nd. Puzar was up front both motos. Crowd was really Loud.
I watched foxhills yesterday too, what a race from our local hero Carl Nunn!
Tortelli in the 250's as well was amazing against everts
Yeah that 1st 125 moto was awesome. Carl and others where flying, there is no way to race any faster. 125,s totally tapped out and smart racing.Smile
6/3/2020 12:44pm
Watching the 94 250 review today, Albee is a beast riding that rm in crappy bieffe gear shredding! For someone who started watching everything in 96 must have been some tough years at the start of his AMA journey
DeStouwer
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6/3/2020 11:43pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2020 11:45pm
During the nineties, the number system in MX World Championship was in fact very simple. It was based on riders rank the year before. And riders...
During the nineties, the number system in MX World Championship was in fact very simple.
It was based on riders rank the year before.
And riders who came from another class or another kind of championship (like US or australian championship for example) without having score any points the year before didnt have a regular number all year long...
Like Button in 125 MX World Championship in 1995.
mx_563 wrote:
1995 125cc GP of Czech Republic, [u]Round #8[/u], Jimmy Button [b]#59[/b] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/06/01/430609/s1200_JB_Czech_Rd8.jpg[/img] 1995 125cc GP of San Marino, [u]Round #9[/u], Jimmy Button [b]#71[/b] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/06/01/430610/s1200_JB_SM_Rd9.jpg[/img] 1995 125cc...
1995 125cc GP of Czech Republic, Round #8, Jimmy Button #59


1995 125cc GP of San Marino, Round #9, Jimmy Button #71


1995 125cc GP of France, Round #10, Jimmy Button #59



Why????


Here is Alessandro Puzar in 1995 at round #10 in France, he is #75


Here is Alessandro Puzar in 1995 at round #12 in Germnay, he is #111



And it's not just the 125 class....the 250 class had a few riders switch numbers mid-season as well...

Pit Beirer in 1995 at round #3 in Switzerland, he is #76


And here is Pit Beirer in 1995 at round #7 is Sweden, he is #61


This affected Badar Manneh who had been #61 up to that point....

This is very confusing. Why was it necessary to switch numbers mid season?






I think the photos of Alex Puzar are from different classes.

In 1995 he had #111 in the 125cc-class (mind the black numberplates), wich was his maiden class that season. He became worldchampion after a year long battle with fellow Italian Alessio Chiodi and Tom Vialle's dad Frédéric.

The #75 (mind the darkgreen numberplates) was when he raced a 250cc GP as a wildcard according to me. In 1996 Puzar moved to 250cc full time (I think with #43), to return to 125cc again in 1997 on a TM.

6/4/2020 2:13pm
DeStouwer wrote:
I think the photos of Alex Puzar are from different classes. In 1995 he had #111 in the 125cc-class (mind the [u]black[/u] numberplates), wich was his...
I think the photos of Alex Puzar are from different classes.

In 1995 he had #111 in the 125cc-class (mind the black numberplates), wich was his maiden class that season. He became worldchampion after a year long battle with fellow Italian Alessio Chiodi and Tom Vialle's dad Frédéric.

The #75 (mind the darkgreen numberplates) was when he raced a 250cc GP as a wildcard according to me. In 1996 Puzar moved to 250cc full time (I think with #43), to return to 125cc again in 1997 on a TM.

It was definitively the same year. 1995. 125cc MX World Championship. Same guy with different numbers.

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