Hong Kong ...

KMC440
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It's getting pensive over there but to stonewall my town is straight up bullshit!!!

The Chinese Government denied requests for port visits to Hong Kong by the USS Green Bay and USS Lake Erie, which were scheduled to arrive in the next few weeks," Cmdr. Nate Christensen, the deputy spokesman for the US Navy's Pacific Fleet, told CNN in a statement on Tuesday.

The amphibious transport dock ship USS Green Bay was scheduled to visit Hong Kong on August 17 and the guided missile-cruiser USS Lake Erie was scheduled to visit next month.

Not only should we show the hell up with Packer banners waiving we should bring a few thousand tons of brats!! They'll be defecting like pronto!
(Klement's Beer Brats are the best Wink )
Seriously I can't believe it took this long for Hong Kong to erupt from the Chinese governments ways.
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Dropbear
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8/13/2019 3:45pm
All this is an insight into what the future may hold in the Pacific region.
BMSOBx2
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8/13/2019 4:44pm
Not sure why the British gave it up in the first place. We are looking at the next Tiananmen Square event.
Brad460
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8/13/2019 4:45pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 5:57pm
The Chi Coms will be scooping up these protesters real soon and taking them to the mainland never to be seen again....Unarmed citizens are easy to control and “make disappear”... That is why gun confiscation is the first thing totalitarian governments do...all in the name of protecting those “citizens”...

The 2nd amendment is one mechanism in retaining freedom...

Those wanting to confiscate guns are doing so for control, not protection...
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Casting
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8/13/2019 5:48pm
China is unlikely to let this carry on much longer, they see the protests as an embarrassment that so far they've been unable to contain.

I can't imagine a scenario where they lessen their control over Hong Kong. China already wants to bring Taiwan fully under its control, so the Chinese Government doesn't want the events of Hong Kong to inspire Taiwan.

It's going to be interesting to watch it play out.

The Shop

BMSOBx2
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8/13/2019 6:19pm
Brad460 wrote:
The Chi Coms will be scooping up these protesters real soon and taking them to the mainland never to be seen again....Unarmed citizens are easy to...
The Chi Coms will be scooping up these protesters real soon and taking them to the mainland never to be seen again....Unarmed citizens are easy to control and “make disappear”... That is why gun confiscation is the first thing totalitarian governments do...all in the name of protecting those “citizens”...

The 2nd amendment is one mechanism in retaining freedom...

Those wanting to confiscate guns are doing so for control, not protection...
Dude, there are two other threads for this. Please don't muck up this thread.
5
APLMAN99
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8/13/2019 7:17pm
I'm a little bit confused. Is protesting by disrupting travel good? Or is this just different for those that claim to want to run over protestors who are in their way while driving?

Are there some closet antifa types around who just don't want to admit it????

😎
Brad460
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8/13/2019 7:28pm
Brad460 wrote:
The Chi Coms will be scooping up these protesters real soon and taking them to the mainland never to be seen again....Unarmed citizens are easy to...
The Chi Coms will be scooping up these protesters real soon and taking them to the mainland never to be seen again....Unarmed citizens are easy to control and “make disappear”... That is why gun confiscation is the first thing totalitarian governments do...all in the name of protecting those “citizens”...

The 2nd amendment is one mechanism in retaining freedom...

Those wanting to confiscate guns are doing so for control, not protection...
BMSOBx2 wrote:
Dude, there are two other threads for this. Please don't muck up this thread.
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else.
This quest for freedom will be easily squashed by cops and military armed with guns versus citizens with nothing. This is no joke..history repeats itself over and over..

We in the US have the most freedom in the world largely due to the 2nd amendment....
1
8
FiendzCC
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8/13/2019 7:57pm
Did you guys catch the videos of the laser standoffs? Protesters beaming high powered blue, green and possibly other colored lasers to block out facial recognition cameras used by law enforcement. Saw one report claim the cameras only need 60% of their face to identify who they are.
zehn
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8/13/2019 7:57pm
Brad460 wrote:
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else. This quest for freedom will be...
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else.
This quest for freedom will be easily squashed by cops and military armed with guns versus citizens with nothing. This is no joke..history repeats itself over and over..

We in the US have the most freedom in the world largely due to the 2nd amendment....
Actually it’s because of the Constitution but ok
1
lestat
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Piut, RE
8/13/2019 9:10pm
Casting wrote:
China is unlikely to let this carry on much longer, they see the protests as an embarrassment that so far they've been unable to contain. I...
China is unlikely to let this carry on much longer, they see the protests as an embarrassment that so far they've been unable to contain.

I can't imagine a scenario where they lessen their control over Hong Kong. China already wants to bring Taiwan fully under its control, so the Chinese Government doesn't want the events of Hong Kong to inspire Taiwan.

It's going to be interesting to watch it play out.
Good take . Right now it seems that the battle for the ‘hearts and minds’ of the general population seems to be a stalemate . This is in the favour of the protesters , because they have time . As you mentioned , China cannot let it go too long or they risk contagion . But if they come down too hard it may cause a swell of support for protesters . A chess match right now ... a chess match with very high stakes .
SEEMEFIRST
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8/13/2019 11:31pm
Once China gains complete control of Hong Kong. It's going to be bad.
CM_84
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8/13/2019 11:36pm
Brad460 wrote:
The Chi Coms will be scooping up these protesters real soon and taking them to the mainland never to be seen again....Unarmed citizens are easy to...
The Chi Coms will be scooping up these protesters real soon and taking them to the mainland never to be seen again....Unarmed citizens are easy to control and “make disappear”... That is why gun confiscation is the first thing totalitarian governments do...all in the name of protecting those “citizens”...

The 2nd amendment is one mechanism in retaining freedom...

Those wanting to confiscate guns are doing so for control, not protection...
BMSOBx2 wrote:
Dude, there are two other threads for this. Please don't muck up this thread.
Brad460 wrote:
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else. This quest for freedom will be...
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else.
This quest for freedom will be easily squashed by cops and military armed with guns versus citizens with nothing. This is no joke..history repeats itself over and over..

We in the US have the most freedom in the world largely due to the 2nd amendment....
The US has the most freedom in the world?

America is a great country, but please don’t insult other countries by saying you are the “most free”

Can Americans walk down the street with an open beer? Can you buy a beer at the age of 18? Can you gamble outside of a few cities / reservations? Can you drive at 120 mph on a freeway? Is prostitution legal on a federal level?

There is more to freedom than owning a gun.
The US is undoubtedly a free country.....but so is just about every other developed nation
11
Barrett57
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8/14/2019 12:25am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2019 1:23am
Brad460 wrote:
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else. This quest for freedom will be...
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else.
This quest for freedom will be easily squashed by cops and military armed with guns versus citizens with nothing. This is no joke..history repeats itself over and over..

We in the US have the most freedom in the world largely due to the 2nd amendment....
Your insight into the incredibly intricate world of geopolitics is just incredible.



6
ns503
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NS Toolies, CA
8/14/2019 3:57am
Brad460 wrote:
The Chi Coms will be scooping up these protesters real soon and taking them to the mainland never to be seen again....Unarmed citizens are easy to...
The Chi Coms will be scooping up these protesters real soon and taking them to the mainland never to be seen again....Unarmed citizens are easy to control and “make disappear”... That is why gun confiscation is the first thing totalitarian governments do...all in the name of protecting those “citizens”...

The 2nd amendment is one mechanism in retaining freedom...

Those wanting to confiscate guns are doing so for control, not protection...
BMSOBx2 wrote:
Dude, there are two other threads for this. Please don't muck up this thread.
Brad460 wrote:
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else. This quest for freedom will be...
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else.
This quest for freedom will be easily squashed by cops and military armed with guns versus citizens with nothing. This is no joke..history repeats itself over and over..

We in the US have the most freedom in the world largely due to the 2nd amendment....
Bullpuckey
Brad460
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8/14/2019 6:12am
Brad460 wrote:
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else. This quest for freedom will be...
As we will see over the next couple few days...this is exactly what this is about- Freedom...freedom and nothing else.
This quest for freedom will be easily squashed by cops and military armed with guns versus citizens with nothing. This is no joke..history repeats itself over and over..

We in the US have the most freedom in the world largely due to the 2nd amendment....
zehn wrote:
Actually it’s because of the Constitution but ok
Exactly...last I checked the 2nd amendment was part of the constitution..
1
Brad460
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8/14/2019 6:24am
CM_84 wrote:
The US has the most freedom in the world? America is a great country, but please don’t insult other countries by saying you are the “most...
The US has the most freedom in the world?

America is a great country, but please don’t insult other countries by saying you are the “most free”

Can Americans walk down the street with an open beer? Can you buy a beer at the age of 18? Can you gamble outside of a few cities / reservations? Can you drive at 120 mph on a freeway? Is prostitution legal on a federal level?

There is more to freedom than owning a gun.
The US is undoubtedly a free country.....but so is just about every other developed nation
Not only do American's enjoy the most personal freedom- Other "developed" countries enjoy "freedom" because of the United States. Like it or not, the United States is the world police..If any of these "developed" countries (alies) were to be invaded by a hostile government- Who do they call first for help??

The fact that United States is the first country they call for help deters hostility...
1
7
8/14/2019 6:28am
The subject is Hong Kong. Hong Kong can be easily invaded and subdued precisely because the people cannot defend themselves. I think Brad's point is relevant to the discussion - though personally I have quit debating anything to do with weapons here at Vital. It's pointless.
JAFO92
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8/14/2019 6:52am
Brad is 100% right.
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early
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8/14/2019 7:14am
Good luck to the people of Hong Kong, they are gonna need it. Could this be the powder keg that forces the rest of the world to "pick sides" and either reject or embrace China and their ridiculous government?
Barrett57
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8/14/2019 7:22am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2019 7:40am
Given Hong Kongs history it is fairly obvious that it was not going to remain at its level of autonomy for very long, it's part of a super-power that doesn't even bother to pretend that it has morals. When it's 50 years of autonomy are up then what? Do you think China that has emerged as such a power house will re-negotiate? I seriously doubt it.

Guns or no guns, eventually it lose its autonomy.
3
Barrett57
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8/14/2019 7:26am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2019 7:28am
early wrote:
Good luck to the people of Hong Kong, they are gonna need it. Could this be the powder keg that forces the rest of the world...
Good luck to the people of Hong Kong, they are gonna need it. Could this be the powder keg that forces the rest of the world to "pick sides" and either reject or embrace China and their ridiculous government?
I doubt it, the world didn't give a damn about its old enemy Russia expanding into the Crimea and starting a war in the Ukraine that is still going on in 2019. We quickly forgot about it didn't we?

Not to mention that Hong-Kong is China, so what can the rest of the world do realistically?
2
8/14/2019 7:27am
Barrett57 wrote:
Given Hong Kongs history it is fairly obvious that it was not going to remain at its level of autonomy for very long, it's part of...
Given Hong Kongs history it is fairly obvious that it was not going to remain at its level of autonomy for very long, it's part of a super-power that doesn't even bother to pretend that it has morals. When it's 50 years of autonomy are up then what? Do you think China that has emerged as such a power house will re-negotiate? I seriously doubt it.

Guns or no guns, eventually it lose its autonomy.
You're probably correct, BarrettBro. There's no chance of them getting the kind of arsenal many American's have, and that is what it would take. As demonstrated in Afghanistan, even the best trained and equipped military has serious problems dealing with an insurgency that is well-armed.
CM_84
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8/14/2019 7:37am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2019 7:43am
CM_84 wrote:
The US has the most freedom in the world? America is a great country, but please don’t insult other countries by saying you are the “most...
The US has the most freedom in the world?

America is a great country, but please don’t insult other countries by saying you are the “most free”

Can Americans walk down the street with an open beer? Can you buy a beer at the age of 18? Can you gamble outside of a few cities / reservations? Can you drive at 120 mph on a freeway? Is prostitution legal on a federal level?

There is more to freedom than owning a gun.
The US is undoubtedly a free country.....but so is just about every other developed nation
Brad460 wrote:
Not only do American's enjoy the most personal freedom- Other "developed" countries enjoy "freedom" because of the United States. Like it or not, the United States...
Not only do American's enjoy the most personal freedom- Other "developed" countries enjoy "freedom" because of the United States. Like it or not, the United States is the world police..If any of these "developed" countries (alies) were to be invaded by a hostile government- Who do they call first for help??

The fact that United States is the first country they call for help deters hostility...
Lol

Whilst I agree the US has been a “world police” and that is great. And whilst you may not need the rest of the “allied countries” we have all been there and helped, Australia, the UK etc have pretty much fought in every modern war beside you guys.

But to say Americans have the most “personal freedom” is absolutely laughable.

Like I said there a lots of free countries, countries that were “free” long before America was the “world police”.
societies that literally invented modern democracy.

What do you mean by personal freedom? Like I asked, can you walk down the street with an open beer? Can you sunbake in your local park nude? Can you ride your dirt bike in the local national park? How old do you have to be to order a beer at a bar?
Can you gamble? In some states you guys can’t even buy spirits in ordinary liquor stores.
These are all things you can do in most developed nations, yet can not in most US states.

Please explain to me what you guys can do that any countries such as Sweden, Canada, the UK, New Zealand etc can not (aside from gun ownership)

If you really want to look at ranking personal freedoms like you obviously feel the need to, the US is not at the top of the list
https://freedomhouse.org/report/methodology-freedom-world-2018

Like I said most of the developed nations are free. It’s not a competition.

Anyway I’ll get back to living in my relative oppression.
2
early
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8/14/2019 7:50am
early wrote:
Good luck to the people of Hong Kong, they are gonna need it. Could this be the powder keg that forces the rest of the world...
Good luck to the people of Hong Kong, they are gonna need it. Could this be the powder keg that forces the rest of the world to "pick sides" and either reject or embrace China and their ridiculous government?
Barrett57 wrote:
I doubt it, the world didn't give a damn about its old enemy Russia expanding into the Crimea and starting a war in the Ukraine that...
I doubt it, the world didn't give a damn about its old enemy Russia expanding into the Crimea and starting a war in the Ukraine that is still going on in 2019. We quickly forgot about it didn't we?

Not to mention that Hong-Kong is China, so what can the rest of the world do realistically?
Not to mention testing secret nuclear weapons that salt the earth.

In light of recent global trade events, this Hong Kong situation, China building a new silk road, food resource realignment, etc. I could see a move to realign the nation's that are preferred for the production of goods sold in the west.
1
Brad460
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8/14/2019 10:48am
CM_84 wrote:
Lol Whilst I agree the US has been a “world police” and that is great. And whilst you may not need the rest of the “allied...
Lol

Whilst I agree the US has been a “world police” and that is great. And whilst you may not need the rest of the “allied countries” we have all been there and helped, Australia, the UK etc have pretty much fought in every modern war beside you guys.

But to say Americans have the most “personal freedom” is absolutely laughable.

Like I said there a lots of free countries, countries that were “free” long before America was the “world police”.
societies that literally invented modern democracy.

What do you mean by personal freedom? Like I asked, can you walk down the street with an open beer? Can you sunbake in your local park nude? Can you ride your dirt bike in the local national park? How old do you have to be to order a beer at a bar?
Can you gamble? In some states you guys can’t even buy spirits in ordinary liquor stores.
These are all things you can do in most developed nations, yet can not in most US states.

Please explain to me what you guys can do that any countries such as Sweden, Canada, the UK, New Zealand etc can not (aside from gun ownership)

If you really want to look at ranking personal freedoms like you obviously feel the need to, the US is not at the top of the list
https://freedomhouse.org/report/methodology-freedom-world-2018

Like I said most of the developed nations are free. It’s not a competition.

Anyway I’ll get back to living in my relative oppression.
Your not getting it...So what if you can gamble or walk down the street with a beer (I can do those things). I am talking the USA as whole- freedom from government control, lack of government dependency, regulations, capitalism..etc. There is a reason the USA is the economic powerhouse it is and the world police..It is because of the freedoms established in our constitution..

The freedoms established in our constitution allow you (your country) to go about your life without concern your freedoms will be taken away..Note: WW2 gave way to the USA becoming the most powerful nation in the world.

Anyways, I suppose we shouldn't turn this into a history discussion..

3
CM_84
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AU
8/14/2019 11:59am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2019 12:02pm
CM_84 wrote:
Lol Whilst I agree the US has been a “world police” and that is great. And whilst you may not need the rest of the “allied...
Lol

Whilst I agree the US has been a “world police” and that is great. And whilst you may not need the rest of the “allied countries” we have all been there and helped, Australia, the UK etc have pretty much fought in every modern war beside you guys.

But to say Americans have the most “personal freedom” is absolutely laughable.

Like I said there a lots of free countries, countries that were “free” long before America was the “world police”.
societies that literally invented modern democracy.

What do you mean by personal freedom? Like I asked, can you walk down the street with an open beer? Can you sunbake in your local park nude? Can you ride your dirt bike in the local national park? How old do you have to be to order a beer at a bar?
Can you gamble? In some states you guys can’t even buy spirits in ordinary liquor stores.
These are all things you can do in most developed nations, yet can not in most US states.

Please explain to me what you guys can do that any countries such as Sweden, Canada, the UK, New Zealand etc can not (aside from gun ownership)

If you really want to look at ranking personal freedoms like you obviously feel the need to, the US is not at the top of the list
https://freedomhouse.org/report/methodology-freedom-world-2018

Like I said most of the developed nations are free. It’s not a competition.

Anyway I’ll get back to living in my relative oppression.
Brad460 wrote:
Your not getting it...So what if you can gamble or walk down the street with a beer (I can do those things). I am talking the...
Your not getting it...So what if you can gamble or walk down the street with a beer (I can do those things). I am talking the USA as whole- freedom from government control, lack of government dependency, regulations, capitalism..etc. There is a reason the USA is the economic powerhouse it is and the world police..It is because of the freedoms established in our constitution..

The freedoms established in our constitution allow you (your country) to go about your life without concern your freedoms will be taken away..Note: WW2 gave way to the USA becoming the most powerful nation in the world.

Anyways, I suppose we shouldn't turn this into a history discussion..

I am well aware of history.
So I assume because the US gave us freedom we were not free before WW2? Gee that is news to me.

Anyway, I do fully understand the role the US has played in history.

But you said “not only do Americans enjoy the most personal freedom”....Brad can you please tell me one personal freedom that you enjoy that a neighbor from the north in Canada does not. (Again guns aside)


8/14/2019 12:07pm
its one thing the Chinese (or Russian) Government doesn't have to worry about, getting voted out, and its much easier to have long term plans,

the west did nothing against Russia taking over Crimea, and wont do anything about the Chinese taking over Hong Kong either,


1
JAFO92
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BFE, TX, USA
8/14/2019 12:42pm
scott_nz wrote:
its one thing the Chinese (or Russian) Government doesn't have to worry about, getting voted out, and its much easier to have long term plans, the...
its one thing the Chinese (or Russian) Government doesn't have to worry about, getting voted out, and its much easier to have long term plans,

the west did nothing against Russia taking over Crimea, and wont do anything about the Chinese taking over Hong Kong either,


Are the Skippys and Kiwis gonna do anything?
1
4
CM_84
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AU
8/14/2019 1:12pm
scott_nz wrote:
its one thing the Chinese (or Russian) Government doesn't have to worry about, getting voted out, and its much easier to have long term plans, the...
its one thing the Chinese (or Russian) Government doesn't have to worry about, getting voted out, and its much easier to have long term plans,

the west did nothing against Russia taking over Crimea, and wont do anything about the Chinese taking over Hong Kong either,


JAFO92 wrote:
Are the Skippys and Kiwis gonna do anything?
I think we would be part of the west that Scott mentioned would do nothing.

We also understand our position in the world from an influence point of view.
We know we could never challenge a country like China, our populations and budget would never allow it.
We rely on strategic alliances with countries like the US. And we are good with it.
JAFO92
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BFE, TX, USA
8/14/2019 1:44pm
CM_84 wrote:
I think we would be part of the west that Scott mentioned would do nothing. We also understand our position in the world from an influence...
I think we would be part of the west that Scott mentioned would do nothing.

We also understand our position in the world from an influence point of view.
We know we could never challenge a country like China, our populations and budget would never allow it.
We rely on strategic alliances with countries like the US. And we are good with it.
Strategic alliances?

Translated: you rely on the American taxpayers like me to fund the heavy lifting.
1

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