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So i would reframe the question to , earliest bikes with efi vs now.
I'd argue there really hasn't been any major advancement in stock suspension since then. Yamaha still leads the stock suspension battle, and they have been basically running the same stock boingers since 2006.
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Why people think factory suspension has any "amazing advancement" outside of production alludes me.
It never has and won't in our last 15 years.
Shy of different damping techniques - which can be implemented into any suspension, what separates factory stuff is the time behind it - and MORE SO the chassis work. I mean if there was some mythical technology that was hugely superior - and aftermarket WOULD SELL IT. This is a business after all.
Bones said 25 percent of what you feel is the suspension, 75 percent is the chassis - which is proven time in and time out by those who know suspension internals. You can take the WP out of the KTM, but you can't take the KTM out of the KTM (insert any brand). The new CRF is a good example - it's just a lot harsher/stiffer than the yzf. The suspension is NOT the blame for this - it's a GREAT fork - with internals INSANELY similar to SSS, if not better.
outwardly looking in with customers of ours - I can let 5 people ride the same track and same bike - and get 5 opinions on what feels plush, harsh, good, bad. It's so subjective it almost makes doing suspension like rolling the wheel of fortune.
I'd bet you could put a former champ in 2006 (bubba?) on a current stock bike, have the production suspension valved accordingly and they would win in 2006 easily.
I think it's easy to put it this way.
I'd bet the production KTM 450 is far better than the factory ktm 450 in 2013 or 14 (I think their first title?). I don't care what you do to their 13 - the new one is hugely improved - and factory race 450's are fairly mild engine wise - now days production HP is enough. The production KTM reflects what I feel they have learned in pro racing - smooth, linear, and a constant build of power as you REV is better than the YZF approach - which in 12 was aggressive, barky, and felt exciting/fast. And guess what - production yamaha has evolved smoother and smoother.
I know from my experience the production kx450 in 2015 was HUGELY better than the 11 platform - and the 16-18 was hugely better than the 15
Assuming the new kx is a step forward (form all accounts) there is NO WAY a 2008 factory kx450 competes with a production 2019 in all categories.
Does that mean a 2008 factory bike isn't damn good? No - it's still got 2 wheels, an engine, and was dialed to perfection by the team. But the new bike with just proper valving for the pro's level - would be sufficient to win back then.
The only glaring fault in this whole argument saying new is better - is the suzuki. It's the same bike as an 09 essentially when it last won.
But then we could argue the bikes have progressed to a point they are unnecessarily better. Meaning a 2009 bike can win today - which I feel is true. Take Carmichael in his prime, on a 2009 rmz - and he could win outdoors today.
Kenny did essentially just that on RCH.
Where we have for sure progressed at the factory level - is data collection, ECU's, and tuning. How much this adds up I don't know. Bikes also rev higher now at the factory level - which is EVOLUTIONARY not revolutionary each year.
the factory ktm 450's I suspect have their limiter near a production 250f - it's very audible if you listen. this allows less shifting.
Put Carmichael on the best outdoor bike today in his prime (whatever color you like) and he could win today too, he was a winner (even on a 2 stroke against a clearly superior bike). So im not sure he is a good example but who knows.
Fans and amateurs believe "the bike" is why those guys are super human.
But same fans blame "the bike" when their guy is loosing.
I've witnessed the fastest local/regional pro - hop on a loaner production stock bike and kill every other pro that day.
Then in the pits all you hear is about how good his bike must be and how fast it was and how good the suspension looked...when all along it was stock.
The rider is IMHO 90 percent of the result at amateurs up to the national A class
And 80 percent after that. And I feel the best pro bike to the worst is 10 percent within each other (i truly feel 3-5)
The other 10 percent is rider comfort/set up within that team.
Love the thread and question - good stuff!
I was just more on point that a lot of suspension in general hasn't really changed technologically short of settings since 06, (the OPs primary question)
If the factory suspension was even incrementally better than the stock suspension in '06, it follows that it is still better than '19 stock suspension, since that is largely the same as stuff available in '06
Check valve bleed, orifice hole sizes in the jet, hole diameter in the restrictor plate, and valving ID are all tuning opportunities that the kit shock has a production shaft wouldn’t. And no, the rave tech separator nut is not the same.
Even the new 19 kx450 shock is pretty similar to the a kit shock.
For what it’s worth I agree with Derek with the caveat that the works / kit shock can make a pretty significant difference in my opinion over a stock unit, yet everyone just wants the forks because it’s blingin when you look at them lol.
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