If you were there, you know.

RG1
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RG1 10/7/2018 8:08pm
10/7/2018 8:08pm
Tbteam wrote:
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys...
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys didn’t wax our top guys.

In retrospect, the Herlings v. Tomac threads are now laughable. Our guys looked like they were riding like crazy people while Herlings and Hoff looked like they were literally out for a Sunday cruise.

Congrats to the rest of the world. We need to play catch up now.
pilotdude wrote:
Please explain how Tomac had a faster lap time than every GP rider except Herlings and Coldenhoff.

Since you were there and you "know."
Laptimes are jack shit he got smoked all weekend in his own backyard. It didn't even need Herlings to beat him, take your pick of any GP guy. It was embarrassing frankly, Plessinger sits in a press conference giving it the big one saying his only competition is Ferrandis, then he goes out and gets beat by Martin Barr overall in the 250 class. They had absolutely no idea what they were dealing with
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Kx125rider 10/7/2018 8:09pm
10/7/2018 8:09pm
Today was embarrassing. Maybe I’m delusional but I think that on a good day for eli he can hang with herlings, maybe not beat him but hang with him. That being said Herlings is consistently faster than eli and rides at that level eli rode at washougal but he can ride there all the time with less mistakes.
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gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 10/7/2018 8:10pm
10/7/2018 8:10pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 8:38pm
gnarwhip wrote:
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've...
How many mud races do we have in America each year, maybe three? Track was Euro style with the ruts and mud, a dry track would've been a different story. Kinda like when Musquin beat Tomac at High Point this summer. Euros thrive on this stuff.
JB 19 wrote:
I think it's time to stop making excuses. I was there and it was old fashioned tough motocross. RJ, RC, Stanton, Wardy, O'mara etc would probably...
I think it's time to stop making excuses. I was there and it was old fashioned tough motocross. RJ, RC, Stanton, Wardy, O'mara etc would probably agree.

I think the Euro's are in their head at this point. Bad.
Muddy, rainy conditions are their specialty. Not ours.
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 10/7/2018 8:11pm
10/7/2018 8:11pm
JB479 wrote:
Shorten SX. I get bored of it after about round 13 or so. The Field gets depleted with injuries. Outdoors is where its at .
SX 10 rounds. 15 round World MX Championship. 6 in Europe. 6 in US. 3 flyaway. Someone make it happen.
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cable
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cable 10/7/2018 8:23pm
10/7/2018 8:23pm
How much do you think is bike setup? there bikes look stuck to the ground and make it look easy. tomac and barcia not so much. noticed the same for the last several years.
Crush
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Crush 10/7/2018 8:27pm
10/7/2018 8:27pm
cable wrote:
How much do you think is bike setup? there bikes look stuck to the ground and make it look easy. tomac and barcia not so much...
How much do you think is bike setup? there bikes look stuck to the ground and make it look easy. tomac and barcia not so much. noticed the same for the last several years.
Lots. It's not like Eli etc can't ride. Their normal is different for sure.

Watch Ironman v Herlings, or all of 2016 the way Kenny had his bike setup. They look really long and compliant, lots of travel, never squirrely.

USA riders you can see their bikes aren't like that, they've said as much in interviews and the tracks are never as beat to shit as a typical GP weekend.
Squirrelings 10/7/2018 8:32pm
10/7/2018 8:32pm
RG1 wrote:
Laptimes are jack shit he got smoked all weekend in his own backyard. It didn't even need Herlings to beat him, take your pick of any...
Laptimes are jack shit he got smoked all weekend in his own backyard. It didn't even need Herlings to beat him, take your pick of any GP guy. It was embarrassing frankly, Plessinger sits in a press conference giving it the big one saying his only competition is Ferrandis, then he goes out and gets beat by Martin Barr overall in the 250 class. They had absolutely no idea what they were dealing with
Do you honestly think Martin Barr is better than Aaron Plessinger? I love how you guys throw all the facts out the window to pound your chest. Plessinger had Ferrandis covered all year. Team USA had a horrible day. Bad starts on a deep, wet track. Congrats to all the GP guys on being so great, but get over yourselves MXGP chest thumpers.
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Kx125rider 10/7/2018 8:33pm
10/7/2018 8:33pm
Is this the first time America has lost on home turf?
Kx125rider 10/7/2018 8:34pm
10/7/2018 8:34pm
cable wrote:
How much do you think is bike setup? there bikes look stuck to the ground and make it look easy. tomac and barcia not so much...
How much do you think is bike setup? there bikes look stuck to the ground and make it look easy. tomac and barcia not so much. noticed the same for the last several years.
Probably to handle well on the highways of tracks we have here, they just sacrifice a little bit when it starts to get rough at the end
BobbyM
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BobbyM 10/7/2018 8:35pm
10/7/2018 8:35pm
Tbteam wrote:
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys...
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys didn’t wax our top guys.

In retrospect, the Herlings v. Tomac threads are now laughable. Our guys looked like they were riding like crazy people while Herlings and Hoff looked like they were literally out for a Sunday cruise.

Congrats to the rest of the world. We need to play catch up now.
Motocross IS European, its like that.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 10/7/2018 8:37pm
10/7/2018 8:37pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Got completely dominated on their home soil on a track they know well and love. Barcia is amazing at Red Bud and Tomac and Plessinger are...
Got completely dominated on their home soil on a track they know well and love. Barcia is amazing at Red Bud and Tomac and Plessinger are the best we have. I mean this was our best on our own soil. No excuse there. Absolutely dominated.

And just in case you were wondering, if we remove the GP guys, the results would have been the same as most rounds this year. Tomac 1-1, Barcia and Roczen rounding out the podium. This is with an admittedly huge omission in Musquin.
DUNGEY woulda went 1,1
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JB479
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JB479 10/7/2018 8:39pm
10/7/2018 8:39pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 8:39pm
cable wrote:
How much do you think is bike setup? there bikes look stuck to the ground and make it look easy. tomac and barcia not so much...
How much do you think is bike setup? there bikes look stuck to the ground and make it look easy. tomac and barcia not so much. noticed the same for the last several years.
Weege asked Villopoto about bike setup on Saturday and RV said he was told by someone that Herlings forks could nearly be used as SX forks there that stiff. Although Herlings isn't human.
Squirrelings 10/7/2018 8:39pm
10/7/2018 8:39pm
BobbyM wrote:
DUNGEY woulda went 1,1
Just like all the other times he raced MXoN and went 1-1, right?
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Crush
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Crush 10/7/2018 8:40pm
10/7/2018 8:40pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Got completely dominated on their home soil on a track they know well and love. Barcia is amazing at Red Bud and Tomac and Plessinger are...
Got completely dominated on their home soil on a track they know well and love. Barcia is amazing at Red Bud and Tomac and Plessinger are the best we have. I mean this was our best on our own soil. No excuse there. Absolutely dominated.

And just in case you were wondering, if we remove the GP guys, the results would have been the same as most rounds this year. Tomac 1-1, Barcia and Roczen rounding out the podium. This is with an admittedly huge omission in Musquin.
BobbyM wrote:
DUNGEY woulda went 1,1
Nope.
RG1
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RG1 10/7/2018 8:40pm
10/7/2018 8:40pm
Squirrelings wrote:
Do you honestly think Martin Barr is better than Aaron Plessinger? I love how you guys throw all the facts out the window to pound your...
Do you honestly think Martin Barr is better than Aaron Plessinger? I love how you guys throw all the facts out the window to pound your chest. Plessinger had Ferrandis covered all year. Team USA had a horrible day. Bad starts on a deep, wet track. Congrats to all the GP guys on being so great, but get over yourselves MXGP chest thumpers.
No I don't think that Barr is better than Plessinger, but I do think he ain't as good as he thinks he is. You can't discredit all the GP guys and then ride that badly. He was a million miles away from Prado and Lawrence today. Over a minute behind in both races.
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Squirrelings 10/7/2018 8:46pm
10/7/2018 8:46pm
RG1 wrote:
No I don't think that Barr is better than Plessinger, but I do think he ain't as good as he thinks he is. You can't discredit...
No I don't think that Barr is better than Plessinger, but I do think he ain't as good as he thinks he is. You can't discredit all the GP guys and then ride that badly. He was a million miles away from Prado and Lawrence today. Over a minute behind in both races.
Obviously he got beat badly today, but it was far from as good as he can ride. Straight up he got beat. Would have gotten his ass handed to him badly today if it was a National as well and the facts are there to prove it. Not taking anything away from anyone.
Beeby
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Beeby 10/7/2018 8:52pm
10/7/2018 8:52pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 8:52pm
If you enter some blokes that ride in a national championship against the people that ride in the world championship, this is what happens.
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toroP
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toroP 10/7/2018 8:59pm
10/7/2018 8:59pm
sticecube wrote:
Im my honest opinion, the MXDN is set up for Europeans to Succeed thanks to Youthstream or who ever it is that runs the GP's (I...
Im my honest opinion, the MXDN is set up for Europeans to Succeed thanks to Youthstream or who ever it is that runs the GP's (I haven't watched a GP on tv in years and the last time I did they were the ones running it I believe but I may be confused). We take a 6 week break following our final round, where as the Europeans come straight from their last race without missing a beat. The tracks are all built to the MXGP standard, taking away the individuality in a sense of the hosting nations track in particular, like for example the start at Red Bud was moved, they added a long switchback right after it, and it appeared (through some of the highlights I watched) it had a very MXGP style of prep compared to what I've seen the last few years for the national. There are rumors about how American riders are told to NOT win races during the MXGP season by the man who runs their series ( I recall an article somewhere a year or so ago that it was stated that Sanayei and Covington were threatened to be dropped from their teams if they beat the Europeans) and I'm not saying they are told not to win for the nations, but it does present an obvious bias towards anyone thats not the Americans. I will say though, that I don't believe, even if the changes did not happen, that the US would still not have won outright. I believe France is an elite team of riders, and thats obvious when you win 5 in a row. However, until the system appears to become unbiased, and the date of the event is moved closer to the conclusion of the US national series, the United States will not win at the nations UNLESS the riders involved agree to not do monster cup or other October SX style races.
Get that non paragraphing, wallpaper looking nonsense out of here.
(I’m mean that in the best possible way)
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TG130
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TG130 10/7/2018 9:45pm
10/7/2018 9:45pm
ShipLap wrote:
Let's admit it. Our guys got: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/10/07/292842/s1200_master_WALM6589.jpg[/img]
Let's admit it. Our guys got:
Bottom line. Can't put it any better than this.
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KennyT
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KennyT 10/7/2018 9:47pm
10/7/2018 9:47pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2018 9:47pm
Tbteam wrote:
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys...
This wasn’t a ”one lined track“ or a “Just couldn’t get a start” situation. There wasn’t a section of this track where the top GP guys didn’t wax our top guys.

In retrospect, the Herlings v. Tomac threads are now laughable. Our guys looked like they were riding like crazy people while Herlings and Hoff looked like they were literally out for a Sunday cruise.

Congrats to the rest of the world. We need to play catch up now.
Being that I am a American I don’t want to seem like some commie asshole but I thoroughly enjoyed this MXDN. I thought it was cool seeing so much talent on display from so many different countries. And it doesn’t bother me one bit to see the arrogant US riders getting their asses handed to them on their home turf.

I grew up watching Europe’s finest. Guys like Decoster, Robert, Weil, Aberg etc are who got me into MX. To me it’s not a us vs them sport. I appreciate great riders and today it was obvious which series is producing true motocrossers
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NorCal 50+
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NorCal 50+ 10/7/2018 10:04pm
10/7/2018 10:04pm
There are no excuses. The US team was not even a factor after the first gate drop. It's pretty crazy. I think the difference is somewhere around the upper left chest area. These GP dudes are some badass MF'ers. Maybe it's too much practice and photo shoots on perfectly groomed tracks for the US guys.
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GeorgiePorgie 10/7/2018 10:10pm
10/7/2018 10:10pm
We got waxed. GC6 last moto looked like he was hovering above the surface. Dirt wouldn’t even stick to the guy. Utter amazement. Our boys got smoked. US riders are way behind the curve.
GeorgiePorgie 10/7/2018 10:13pm
10/7/2018 10:13pm
ALSO Plessinger was off all day. I think the kid has a concussion. Looked like a totally different rider after his nasty get off.
scottydogmx 10/7/2018 10:51pm
10/7/2018 10:51pm
Yesterday did make me wonder if there was an actual reason for both Tomac and Barcia not being as fast as they usually are at the Nation's, I mean they have both ridden really really well at the event before but we didn't see even a glimpse yesterday.
Have they been resting or training for the MEC and just thought they would just rock up after a few weeks off and win?
I don't want to knock them, I just think they are better than yesterday.
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Aryen
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Aryen 10/8/2018 12:00am
10/8/2018 12:00am
sticecube wrote:
Im my honest opinion, the MXDN is set up for Europeans to Succeed thanks to Youthstream or who ever it is that runs the GP's (I...
Im my honest opinion, the MXDN is set up for Europeans to Succeed thanks to Youthstream or who ever it is that runs the GP's (I haven't watched a GP on tv in years and the last time I did they were the ones running it I believe but I may be confused). We take a 6 week break following our final round, where as the Europeans come straight from their last race without missing a beat. The tracks are all built to the MXGP standard, taking away the individuality in a sense of the hosting nations track in particular, like for example the start at Red Bud was moved, they added a long switchback right after it, and it appeared (through some of the highlights I watched) it had a very MXGP style of prep compared to what I've seen the last few years for the national. There are rumors about how American riders are told to NOT win races during the MXGP season by the man who runs their series ( I recall an article somewhere a year or so ago that it was stated that Sanayei and Covington were threatened to be dropped from their teams if they beat the Europeans) and I'm not saying they are told not to win for the nations, but it does present an obvious bias towards anyone thats not the Americans. I will say though, that I don't believe, even if the changes did not happen, that the US would still not have won outright. I believe France is an elite team of riders, and thats obvious when you win 5 in a row. However, until the system appears to become unbiased, and the date of the event is moved closer to the conclusion of the US national series, the United States will not win at the nations UNLESS the riders involved agree to not do monster cup or other October SX style races.
This is the most embarrassing set of excuses I have seen in my entire life.

Let’s call the WAMbulance for this kid!
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Edge-Of-Adhesion 10/8/2018 12:16am
10/8/2018 12:16am
sticecube wrote:
Im my honest opinion, the MXDN is set up for Europeans to Succeed thanks to Youthstream or who ever it is that runs the GP's (I...
Im my honest opinion, the MXDN is set up for Europeans to Succeed thanks to Youthstream or who ever it is that runs the GP's (I haven't watched a GP on tv in years and the last time I did they were the ones running it I believe but I may be confused). We take a 6 week break following our final round, where as the Europeans come straight from their last race without missing a beat. The tracks are all built to the MXGP standard, taking away the individuality in a sense of the hosting nations track in particular, like for example the start at Red Bud was moved, they added a long switchback right after it, and it appeared (through some of the highlights I watched) it had a very MXGP style of prep compared to what I've seen the last few years for the national. There are rumors about how American riders are told to NOT win races during the MXGP season by the man who runs their series ( I recall an article somewhere a year or so ago that it was stated that Sanayei and Covington were threatened to be dropped from their teams if they beat the Europeans) and I'm not saying they are told not to win for the nations, but it does present an obvious bias towards anyone thats not the Americans. I will say though, that I don't believe, even if the changes did not happen, that the US would still not have won outright. I believe France is an elite team of riders, and thats obvious when you win 5 in a row. However, until the system appears to become unbiased, and the date of the event is moved closer to the conclusion of the US national series, the United States will not win at the nations UNLESS the riders involved agree to not do monster cup or other October SX style races.
Just don't say it too loudly...they're everywhere....you know who I mean....them....
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devindavisphoto 10/8/2018 12:30am
10/8/2018 12:30am
Beating a dead horse here, but how do we do if it's 100 degrees and perfect conditions? I think we dominate this year.

Just my opinion... the track today looked more like a GP track than an AMA track.
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skypig
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skypig 10/8/2018 12:48am
10/8/2018 12:48am
Aussie kid, on a 250F, on a track he hasn’t ridden on before? Beat ET.
That has to be good on his resume!
Nice work!!
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segers
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segers 10/8/2018 1:46am
10/8/2018 1:46am
devindavisphoto wrote:
Beating a dead horse here, but how do we do if it's 100 degrees and perfect conditions? I think we dominate this year. Just my opinion...
Beating a dead horse here, but how do we do if it's 100 degrees and perfect conditions? I think we dominate this year.

Just my opinion... the track today looked more like a GP track than an AMA track.
motoCROSS is not supposed to be ridden in "perfect" conditions,thats motogp
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