2001 CR250 $pecial Restoration Part II - Recreation of a 1999-2000 Japan Honda Factory RC250M

Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 4/14/2018 8:52am
4/14/2018 8:52am
I have more HRC parts on the way, but some parts still remain elusive such as a period correct HRC radiator cap. However, some of these parts are fairly easy to imitate. The actual HRC radiator cap is made by the same company that makes the OEM cap. The difference is they paint the HRC cap black and the also up the pressure rating from 1.1 to 1.8. The warning label is also different.. the OEM one has a red stripe which the HRC label doesn't. I peeled up the original label carefully with some heat and a fresh razor blade. I do a lot of detailing of hit rod parts and one trick I use for small parts painted black is Krylon Satin Black.. it dries quick and doesn't run easily. After I let it dry for 24-48 hours, I polish the paint with Turtle wax.. really rub it hard. It makes for a very nice semi-gloss finish with few imperfections that often happen with a rattle can job, and the finish is much harder and more scratch resistant. This should provide the correct look until I find an HRC one to replace it.



Chance1216
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Chance1216 4/17/2018 12:21pm
4/17/2018 12:21pm
Many of the oem parts are getting harder and harder to find as well. After using a keihin 38 mm air striker I installed after purchasing my bike, I decided to give the TMX a shot. I actually went off of your recommendation for jetting specs and ordered the jets along with a 6BEH1-75 needle. After placing the order last week I got an email today stating it was no longer available. Looked around and other vendors aren't carrying it anymore as well. I may just have to go with a JD kit for now and test it out. I'm happy with the Keihin but figured this would be something to tinker with since I have a little down time from work. You are right. It's like a treasure hunt. Sometimes rewarding and others a little frustrating especially when you place an order showing the parts are in stock. Then find out later it's not. Lacks of parts available sometimes pushes people to buy new bikes. I really wish Honda would've continued the CR line. I'd buy a new one of those. Anyways sorry for taking up space on this awesome build.
Chance1216
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Chance1216 4/17/2018 2:40pm
4/17/2018 2:40pm
I LOVE EBAAAAAY!!!!! Few hours later I found one in the U.K. Might take a few weeks to get here but, I found one. Popped up outta nowhere.
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 4/22/2018 11:37pm
4/22/2018 11:37pm
Chance1216 wrote:
I LOVE EBAAAAAY!!!!! Few hours later I found one in the U.K. Might take a few weeks to get here but, I found one. Popped up...
I LOVE EBAAAAAY!!!!! Few hours later I found one in the U.K. Might take a few weeks to get here but, I found one. Popped up outta nowhere.
That's the way it works.. hard to find when you are looking for it, but then one comes out of no where when you are not looking so hard.

The Shop

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Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 4/23/2018 12:00am
4/23/2018 12:00am Edited Date/Time 4/23/2018 6:40am
Found some Showa racing fork decals and some of the actual "Enjoy It!" Honda motorsports stickers in Japan, after much searching. These Showa stickers with the white outline are hard to get as they are only distributed by the Showa technicians to the pro race teams. I found one guy with one and another guy with another.

I had created the Enjoy It decals from old photos with poor resolution and my own hazy memory from 20 years ago. Now that I have the genuine decals, I see that the ones I created were off on a few details. The guy is wearing a cap and not a helmet and has a smiley face. This version of the decal is very slightly different from the one HRC ran on their Japan factory bike from 1997 to 2001. "Motor Sports!! should be smaller font and shifted to the right more and below that in smaller font it should say "HONDAMOTORSPORTS.COM", so I will use this real decal to recreate the HRC stickers a 2nd time. I also noticed how much everyday photography as changed in the last 20 years. I had a number of photos of the decal in my own snap shots as well as from magazines, and the detail was so blurry, you could not see the fine print or other details. Anyway, "Enjoy Honda Motorsports" was a campaign Honda Japan ran in the late 90's and early 2000's, but these decals were not that common so hard to find these days, 20 years later.

Here is a picture of the decal on a 2000 MXdN Japan team bike..

I also got the HRC replica engine guard on the bike and the 2nd pipe I just finished bluing. You get good at the bluing after about 3 pipes! Smile . By the way, Bryan Borny has a few more of the replica engine guards left.
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Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 4/23/2018 12:09am
4/23/2018 12:09am Edited Date/Time 4/23/2018 12:12am
Oops.. here are the shots I was looking for..

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JBecker 72 4/23/2018 4:07am
4/23/2018 4:07am
Amazing build! Your attention to detail is impressive.
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 4/23/2018 1:00pm
4/23/2018 1:00pm
New HRC part came today.. a period correct NOS HRC adjustable clutch perch. I am close to my goal of having enough factory parts on it so that if you looked quickly, you would think you were looking at an original Japan team RC250M from 1999-2000 race seasons.
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 4/29/2018 7:05am
4/29/2018 7:05am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2018 7:15am
Here is the final version of the Honda "enjoy it" decals after a few attempts. I started with some blurry photos and an even blurrier memory, but after finding a similar version of the vintage decal in Japan, I was able to confirm what the finer print said. Initially I thought the figure was wearing a helmet, but turns out he is wearing a baseball cap and is smiling. I probably have a few hundred dollars and many hours into this stupid decal, but it was critical to getting this build authentic enough. This decal was on the Japan factory RC250Ms from 1997 to 2000.

The bike is getting close to completion, just waiting for a few smaller parts to arrive from overseas and some parts to come back from the anodizer to finish, but here is a teaser picture of the parts quickly mocked up (half the bolts are not installed) to get an idea of what the bike will look like.

I was a bit uncertain at the start of exactly which RC250M I would replicate. I liked some of the cosmetic/ styling touches of different seasons/ teams. Nevertheless, this bike is closest to the Japan HRC factory RC250Ms from the 1999 season when the prototype of the new 2nd gen design was first introduced. Japan used green number plate backgrounds for their 250cc pro class similar to the GP bikes, but switched to red backgrounds from 2000. The 1999 season bikes had gold 49mm forks, but switched to silver 51mm forks in 2000. They also switched form silver to red triple clamps between the 2 seasons. I preferred the red clamps from 2000, but the gold forks from 1999. I also stole some styling cues from the 2000 US Honda team.. namely the "Dunlop" lettering on the tires and fork guards which the Japan team never did. So I guess you could say that my build is not a tribute to any one rider's bike, but to the HRC machines of this period. It was the last generation of HRC machines that were radically different from the production bikes and what a weekend warrior could build. Today, any home garage mechanic can build a bike that looks very similar to what the top factory bikes look like. Pictures of the 1999 Japan RC250M are hard to find, but here are a few..




In contrast, this is the 2000 season RC250M with a few styling changes..
burn1986
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burn1986 4/29/2018 8:06am
4/29/2018 8:06am
Wow, sweet build
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 4/29/2018 9:51am
4/29/2018 9:51am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2018 9:55am
When I first started this build, I was somewhat flexible on my goal of what I would end up with in terms of actual HRC parts on the bike. HRC parts are hard enough to come across as it is since they are supposed to be destroyed after use by the factory teams, and these 18-20 year old HRC parts for a model bike that was only in existence for 2 years are like the search for King Tut's tomb. The one part that remains elusive and I have decided is an absolute must have, is the Kevlar silencer. I remember one of the Japan mechanics telling me once how delicate these things were and didn't often survive any significant crash. Nevertheless, I am even offering a reward to anyone who provides a lead to someone how has one and I make the purchase. Here is the HRC silencer I am searching for;

************WANTED!***********WANTED!************WANTED!**************WANTED!*******************

Chance1216
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Chance1216 5/2/2018 9:50pm
5/2/2018 9:50pm
I don't mean to chime in everytime you add something new. What your doing is absolutely incredible. I read a lot regarding Hondas from the late 80's - early 2K. There's information out there but the detail of your knowledge base really impresses me. A person can always get tech tips, and advice to make something better. However, this is like a cool history class that's informative and intriguing. Its one thing to look at a nice bike. Its another to watch something being built while learning the history behind it. Thank you.
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 5/8/2018 9:19am
5/8/2018 9:19am Edited Date/Time 5/13/2018 3:11am
Another decal that Japan HRC ran on their bike for many years are these H-A-R-T decals that I just got from Japan. It was another Honda Japan campaign and stood for "Honda Active Riders Terminal"..


Just got another order of HRC replica titanium made.. the rest of the engine mount bolts, suspension, kick starter and triple clamp bolts..


Honda used these uniquely designed triple clamp bolts for more years than I can count.. probably from around 1997 to the modern factory CRFs. They have an extra thick flange on the head..


I have a few more major HRC pieces on the way so I can finish the project up.
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 5/11/2018 9:01am
5/11/2018 9:01am
Chance1216 wrote:
I don't mean to chime in everytime you add something new. What your doing is absolutely incredible. I read a lot regarding Hondas from the late...
I don't mean to chime in everytime you add something new. What your doing is absolutely incredible. I read a lot regarding Hondas from the late 80's - early 2K. There's information out there but the detail of your knowledge base really impresses me. A person can always get tech tips, and advice to make something better. However, this is like a cool history class that's informative and intriguing. Its one thing to look at a nice bike. Its another to watch something being built while learning the history behind it. Thank you.
Glad you find it interesting.. sometimes I wonder if I might be the only one interested in these little details.
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 5/11/2018 9:12am
5/11/2018 9:12am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2018 9:18am
Here is the latest HRC part that has arrived and an important one for this build. It is an HRC Kevlar silencer. The Japan and European teams ran this larger silencer. The US team ran a smaller version. It is amazing how light it is. They are hard to find as they don't survive crashes so well. Most people think it is carbon fiber but it is Kevlar. The connecting pipe is made out of aluminum. I heard that HRC would get 3 races out of one (if no crashes), then throw them away. There is an indentation on the bottom of the Kevlar body to make clearance for the rear brake caliper when the suspension is bottomed out.


HRC also had problems with the aluminum pipe wearing out, so they started making the tip of the connector out of titanium. Here is a picture of the titanium tip..

This silencer looks to be NOS as there is no sign of carbon in either end of the silencer if you shine a light insider or stick your finger in there. It is as clean inside as it is outside... perfect condition;
3
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 5/11/2018 2:45pm
5/11/2018 2:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2018 5:48pm
Here is a tip on how to find real HRC works parts.. after searching fruitlessly for a great period of time, you go through great expense to have the part replicated. Then once you do that, you will find a cheap mass produced version that looks just as nice or even better. Then once you buy that, the real HRC part will fall out of the sky for you. This is the prerequisite rain dance for getting these parts Wink

Here are some HRC banjo bolts I just picked up..

As I gradually replace nice replica parts with the real items, I have a pile of replica parts building up now .
3
JBecker 72
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JBecker 72 5/11/2018 3:11pm
5/11/2018 3:11pm
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
Here is the latest HRC part that has arrived and an important one for this build. It is an HRC Kevlar silencer. The Japan and European...
Here is the latest HRC part that has arrived and an important one for this build. It is an HRC Kevlar silencer. The Japan and European teams ran this larger silencer. The US team ran a smaller version. It is amazing how light it is. They are hard to find as they don't survive crashes so well. Most people think it is carbon fiber but it is Kevlar. The connecting pipe is made out of aluminum. I heard that HRC would get 3 races out of one (if no crashes), then throw them away. There is an indentation on the bottom of the Kevlar body to make clearance for the rear brake caliper when the suspension is bottomed out.


HRC also had problems with the aluminum pipe wearing out, so they started making the tip of the connector out of titanium. Here is a picture of the titanium tip..

This silencer looks to be NOS as there is no sign of carbon in either end of the silencer if you shine a light insider or stick your finger in there. It is as clean inside as it is outside... perfect condition;
Good lord, that silencer is gorgeous. This bike is shaping up to be a museum piece.
neverwas 5/11/2018 4:37pm
5/11/2018 4:37pm
Chance1216 wrote:
I don't mean to chime in everytime you add something new. What your doing is absolutely incredible. I read a lot regarding Hondas from the late...
I don't mean to chime in everytime you add something new. What your doing is absolutely incredible. I read a lot regarding Hondas from the late 80's - early 2K. There's information out there but the detail of your knowledge base really impresses me. A person can always get tech tips, and advice to make something better. However, this is like a cool history class that's informative and intriguing. Its one thing to look at a nice bike. Its another to watch something being built while learning the history behind it. Thank you.
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
Glad you find it interesting.. sometimes I wonder if I might be the only one interested in these little details.
I also have enjoyed this build,your attention to detail is impressive and really makes the difference.
Very cool build of a great era of MX

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Chance1216
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Chance1216 5/11/2018 8:01pm
5/11/2018 8:01pm
Watching your bike come together its becoming easier and easier to see when the factories speak of six figure works bikes the claims are true. Titanium hardware, magnesium,Kevlar, and carbon fiber touches. Not to mention the R&D that goes into those pieces of art. One off items that aren't sent out to the general public makes those parts quite exotic. Not to mention that they are supposed to be destroyed. That Kevlar silencer.... My oh my. I'm glad you located it. I like the little intricacies from your lower pipe mount to the white outlined SHOWA stickers. I'm learning a lot as the details you've mentioned are something I didn't have a clue about. Best part for me is having an 01 myself. I just wish that the cut off year for several parts didn't end at 2002. Its a little frustrating seeing titanium pegs or carbon fiber tanks available for 02 forward. But ... if everything was so readily available these $PECIAL builds possibly wouldn't mean as much or seem so iconic. Once again. Thank you for the lessons learned.
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JBernard_401 5/11/2018 10:48pm
5/11/2018 10:48pm
Can you share who's making your Ti bolts? Would like to get a custom one offs made for my stuff as well.
Thanks
StevieD113 5/12/2018 4:29am
5/12/2018 4:29am
JBernard_401 wrote:
Can you share who's making your Ti bolts? Would like to get a custom one offs made for my stuff as well.
Thanks
That would be me. Wink Drop us an email and we can make what ever you need.



Tokyo_Tiddler, she's looking mighty fine!! Woohoo


Stevie
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JBernard_401
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JBernard_401 5/12/2018 10:12am
5/12/2018 10:12am
StevieD113 wrote:
That would be me. Wink Drop us an email and we can make what ever you need.



Tokyo_Tiddler, she's looking mighty fine!! Woohoo


Stevie
Ha! Figured it may be you guys. Been checking your stuff out for a while now, and gotta give some props, you guys have stepped it up major in the last year or so.
I'll measure some engine thru bolts up and toss some ideas your way here soon. Thanks!
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TXDirt 5/12/2018 11:00am
5/12/2018 11:00am
Very cool stuff. A+ on this build and awesome to follow along.

How/where did you find the silencer?
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 5/12/2018 3:32pm
5/12/2018 3:32pm Edited Date/Time 5/12/2018 3:46pm
JBernard_401 wrote:
Can you share who's making your Ti bolts? Would like to get a custom one offs made for my stuff as well.
Thanks
Yup, Stevie Denton and his dad, Phil make this stuff.. I don't think you would find it anywhere else. Some they already had, but another Vital member, Corne, and I supplied specs on the real hardware in some cases, and the Denton's machined it for us, so they already have the specs for most of the key titanium and aluminum hardware for the bike. I have some actual HRC hardware and the Dentons were pretty much able to machine exact high quality replicas of everything else which is a lifesaver for a project like this where authenticity/ details are important and the rare parts not easy to find.

One good thing is HRC used the same bolt design for many different factory machines over a very broad span of time, so they are correct for a range of replica RC builds. In many cases the bolt designs are very different from the OEM bolts and look totally different, so critical for an authentic build!

I still have an HRC replica bar clamp and Ti footpeg bolts coming from the Denton's to help complete the project.

Stevie; will you have the bar clamp with the special bolt spacing and the Ti footpeg bolts soon?

mike
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 5/13/2018 1:35am
5/13/2018 1:35am
The Scalvini carbon fiber silencer was very, very nice, but the HRC piece is definitely an upgrade. I still need to cut out the vents on the back of the side plates...


Helder
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Helder 5/13/2018 2:32am
5/13/2018 2:32am
this is borderline BlackDiamond build
2
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 5/13/2018 8:54pm
5/13/2018 8:54pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2018 6:48am
Helder wrote:
this is borderline BlackDiamond build
I believe the builds are very different with different objectives. BlackDiamond spends a lot more time massaging each part trying to make it better as if he were a building a works machine for a modern rider. He is looking to use the latest, best technology available, upgrading each and every part where possible. He is not building a historical piece with rare parts. I spend much of my time tracking down the rare parts wherever they may be all over the world. I also spend a lot of time looking at my own and other pictures from Japan of a specific era of HRC and motocross history when CNC technology, special materials, anodizing and coatings were just coming into being for big budget R&D shops and the parts were super special. Today, their is an abundance of these parts from the aftermarket for modern machines. So if I cant find a rare part, I spend a lot of time recreating an exact replica of an old part, whereas I could just buy a similar or higher technology part for much less money and effort from the aftermarket, except it would look different. BlackDiamond's bikes are meant to be ridden, while my latest build, while the engine and suspension are top notch and ready to do laps as it sits, it will never see the dirt again and is meant to be a display piece to preserve a piece of history and just something cool to look at.

So with that reasoning, I don't see how they could be considered comparable.
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Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 5/15/2018 2:51pm
5/15/2018 2:51pm
I finally got around to cutting the holes in back of the side plates. HRC said they found it created a small amount of additional power by doing this. It lead to the holes being designed into the production 2002+ CRs. The rationale for the power increase is that it allowed for less turbulent air or something like that. When Honda did that, all the other teams copied and begin cutting holes in their air boxes. I used MAP gas to heat a small knife and cut out most of the hole, but not all.


Then I used a small drum sander bit on a dremel tool to finish and shape the hole.

Here it is with the holes done and ready to install the screens.
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KDXGarage 5/15/2018 7:26pm
5/15/2018 7:26pm
Congratulations on the continued excellent build! It is really incredible.
Helder
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Helder 5/16/2018 3:34am
5/16/2018 3:34am
Helder wrote:
this is borderline BlackDiamond build
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
I believe the builds are very different with different objectives. BlackDiamond spends a lot more time massaging each part trying to make it better as if...
I believe the builds are very different with different objectives. BlackDiamond spends a lot more time massaging each part trying to make it better as if he were a building a works machine for a modern rider. He is looking to use the latest, best technology available, upgrading each and every part where possible. He is not building a historical piece with rare parts. I spend much of my time tracking down the rare parts wherever they may be all over the world. I also spend a lot of time looking at my own and other pictures from Japan of a specific era of HRC and motocross history when CNC technology, special materials, anodizing and coatings were just coming into being for big budget R&D shops and the parts were super special. Today, their is an abundance of these parts from the aftermarket for modern machines. So if I cant find a rare part, I spend a lot of time recreating an exact replica of an old part, whereas I could just buy a similar or higher technology part for much less money and effort from the aftermarket, except it would look different. BlackDiamond's bikes are meant to be ridden, while my latest build, while the engine and suspension are top notch and ready to do laps as it sits, it will never see the dirt again and is meant to be a display piece to preserve a piece of history and just something cool to look at.

So with that reasoning, I don't see how they could be considered comparable.
Just in regards to the time and detail, for both of you it mum isf be perfect regardless of the end goal

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