2001 CR250 $pecial Restoration Part II - Recreation of a 1999-2000 Japan Honda Factory RC250M

5/16/2018 4:49am
Yup, Stevie Denton and his dad, Phil make this stuff.. I don't think you would find it anywhere else. Some they already had, but another Vital...
Yup, Stevie Denton and his dad, Phil make this stuff.. I don't think you would find it anywhere else. Some they already had, but another Vital member, Corne, and I supplied specs on the real hardware in some cases, and the Denton's machined it for us, so they already have the specs for most of the key titanium and aluminum hardware for the bike. I have some actual HRC hardware and the Dentons were pretty much able to machine exact high quality replicas of everything else which is a lifesaver for a project like this where authenticity/ details are important and the rare parts not easy to find.

One good thing is HRC used the same bolt design for many different factory machines over a very broad span of time, so they are correct for a range of replica RC builds. In many cases the bolt designs are very different from the OEM bolts and look totally different, so critical for an authentic build!

I still have an HRC replica bar clamp and Ti footpeg bolts coming from the Denton's to help complete the project.

Stevie; will you have the bar clamp with the special bolt spacing and the Ti footpeg bolts soon?

mike
The bar clamp came back from anodising just as we were locking up last night Mike.

Corne, is sorting out the details of the footrest bolts for me today. I was sure we had done them before but I can't find a drawing or a program for them, so I guess I hadn't! Should have it all ready by the end of the week.

Stevie
5/19/2018 10:36am Edited Date/Time 5/19/2018 6:01pm
An HRC radiator cap in a Kawi box? Yup, this is the very same radiator cap that HRC used on their machines for years. I guess when HRC moved to the new style cap, Toyo Radiator Co. found a new buyer for this same cap in Kawasaki as an option part. I never really thought about the logo on the cap until now, but on the bottom of the cap decal, you will TRK spelt out in a kind of decorative font. This stands for "Toyo Radiator Kabushikigaisha". Kabushikigaisha is Japanese for "corporation", so in other words it says Toyo Radiator Co. It is the same logo on the OEM cap. I never noticed that until now. This is their old logo and they have a newer, updated logo now which is "T.RAD".

She is on the bike and another box checked. I found a new HRC kill switch at a dealership in Germany and that is on its way and takes care of some of the small parts that provide the proper detail. The German dealership wouldn't ship outside the EU so I had a German friend get it for me.
5/20/2018 9:59pm
I finally got the rear vents done on the side plates the way Japan HRC did them with a screen glued on the inside of each vent. For the front vents I used a regular window screen as it needed to be pliable enough to bend around the contours of the vent. However, for the rear vents, I used a much heavier and much finer screen which is sold as a stainless steel straining material. I remember that the screen HRC used was fine enough that it was hard to look into and see the inside of the number plate, which would have looked tacky if you could. This gives a much better appearance. The rear vents have less contour so the stiffer screen is possible. I think HRC used epoxy, but I used a special adhesive silicone that is quite strong...

Here is the finished job. The left side went without incident..

I am trying to remember the rationale behind the rear vents.. it was something about less turbulent air than from the front vents. One way to find out is to read up on the write ups on the introduction of the 2002 CR250.. I believe they explain the theory there since the 2002 model had these rear vents on the OEM model...

But the right side gave me a fit when I was almost done and saw that the screen was standing up ever so slightly on one corner, so I thought would just hit with a small dab of super glue. Well the super glue ran out over the other side of the plate and my fingers and made a sticky mess. I didn't follow my own rule of never using a runny adhesive that is hard to remove on a contoured part with holes.. the very reason I used a silicone adhesive instead of epoxy. When I finally got the glue off with solvent, the plastic was marred, so I spent a couple of hours re-polishing the plastic in that spot. I was able to remove the marks completely, but now trying to get the original shine back.. almost there, but not quite. Hard to see, but I know, and that is what counts Smile ...

Here is the way the rear vents looked on the original Japan RC250Ms.. hope I got them close?...

The Shop

ledger
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5/20/2018 10:40pm
Is the bike above ^^^ #6 a last generation frame ? Great job on the small details.
5/20/2018 11:08pm
ledger wrote:
Is the bike above ^^^ #6 a last generation frame ? Great job on the small details.
It is the prototype for the last generation frame with the previous generation motor and body work. I consider the best RC250M ever build.. better than the ones the Honda team used until the mid-2000's. It is the CR250 that should have been. Honda decided to give up on the 2 strokes before it would ever admit that it totally screwed up on the last generation 125 and 250 2T motors. This RC250 only appeared in the last few races of 2000 as the new last generation bike with the case reed engine appeared from the start of the 2001 race season along side the previous generation RC250. The HRC team raced both together for comparison.
5/20/2018 11:09pm
Here is a close up of the screen I used for the rear vent...
1
Chance1216
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5/22/2018 9:56pm
Out of curiosity, what do you use to polish your plastic? I noticed mine looked faded after a couple washes although the plastic was new. I've tried the Pro Honda polish/cleaner and Maxima silicone spray with less then satisfactory results. The new shine is gone and almost reminds me of a 92 CR 500 I had with the near pink plastic.
5/23/2018 8:40am
Chance1216 wrote:
Out of curiosity, what do you use to polish your plastic? I noticed mine looked faded after a couple washes although the plastic was new. I've...
Out of curiosity, what do you use to polish your plastic? I noticed mine looked faded after a couple washes although the plastic was new. I've tried the Pro Honda polish/cleaner and Maxima silicone spray with less then satisfactory results. The new shine is gone and almost reminds me of a 92 CR 500 I had with the near pink plastic.
Damaged plastic is sandpaper down to at least 1200 or finer grit and Novus plastic polish with a wool buffing wheel. Weekly polish and shine I use SC-1 Clearcoat.
mxBryan
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5/24/2018 3:26pm
Glad you got that silencer, It went to the right bike for sure !
The details are stunning, it's getting close to a works bike.

One detail that can give this whole bike a little extra is having the same seat cover like the Japanese HRC bikes have in the pictures you made. There is also plenty of aftermarket that make similiar seat covers.

JBecker 72
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5/24/2018 3:48pm
An HRC radiator cap in a Kawi box? Yup, this is the very same radiator cap that HRC used on their machines for years. I guess...
An HRC radiator cap in a Kawi box? Yup, this is the very same radiator cap that HRC used on their machines for years. I guess when HRC moved to the new style cap, Toyo Radiator Co. found a new buyer for this same cap in Kawasaki as an option part. I never really thought about the logo on the cap until now, but on the bottom of the cap decal, you will TRK spelt out in a kind of decorative font. This stands for "Toyo Radiator Kabushikigaisha". Kabushikigaisha is Japanese for "corporation", so in other words it says Toyo Radiator Co. It is the same logo on the OEM cap. I never noticed that until now. This is their old logo and they have a newer, updated logo now which is "T.RAD".

She is on the bike and another box checked. I found a new HRC kill switch at a dealership in Germany and that is on its way and takes care of some of the small parts that provide the proper detail. The German dealership wouldn't ship outside the EU so I had a German friend get it for me.
What is the part number for that Kawasaki cap? I could use a couple of those.
5/24/2018 3:57pm
Thanks Bryan. The 2000 team seat looks exactly like the OEM seat I have except for the pleats, and I am not such a big fan of the pleats. However, the 1999 team seat is really cool as it says "RC" on the side in big letters.. that is the one I was thinking about copying. Not sure if the seat cover manufacturers could do a one off copy for me.
5/24/2018 4:01pm
The radiator cap part number is in my thread in the Bazaar section.
JBecker 72
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5/24/2018 4:05pm Edited Date/Time 5/24/2018 4:17pm
The radiator cap part number is in my thread in the Bazaar section.
Awesome, found it. Thanks

And.... ordered.
dean122
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5/24/2018 6:44pm
Congrats on the perch and muffler. Those are definitely grail pieces that are once in a lifetime. The build is amazing and I for one can appreciate the smallest of details. If you want to get rid of any late model HRC pieces, let me know!
Chance1216
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5/24/2018 9:34pm Edited Date/Time 5/24/2018 9:41pm
Thanks Bryan. The 2000 team seat looks exactly like the OEM seat I have except for the pleats, and I am not such a big fan...
Thanks Bryan. The 2000 team seat looks exactly like the OEM seat I have except for the pleats, and I am not such a big fan of the pleats. However, the 1999 team seat is really cool as it says "RC" on the side in big letters.. that is the one I was thinking about copying. Not sure if the seat cover manufacturers could do a one off copy for me.
Ceet racing. 760-599-0115. The person looking into it for me is Tony. I have them looking into a one off seat cover for my 01. 87 style with the white CR logo on the sides and blue vinyl. Wanted to try that with white plastics and Factory FX OEM graphics just to change things up. I believe I was only looking at about $75 if I remember right. Hope it helps
5/25/2018 12:13am
Yup, Stevie Denton and his dad, Phil make this stuff.. I don't think you would find it anywhere else. Some they already had, but another Vital...
Yup, Stevie Denton and his dad, Phil make this stuff.. I don't think you would find it anywhere else. Some they already had, but another Vital member, Corne, and I supplied specs on the real hardware in some cases, and the Denton's machined it for us, so they already have the specs for most of the key titanium and aluminum hardware for the bike. I have some actual HRC hardware and the Dentons were pretty much able to machine exact high quality replicas of everything else which is a lifesaver for a project like this where authenticity/ details are important and the rare parts not easy to find.

One good thing is HRC used the same bolt design for many different factory machines over a very broad span of time, so they are correct for a range of replica RC builds. In many cases the bolt designs are very different from the OEM bolts and look totally different, so critical for an authentic build!

I still have an HRC replica bar clamp and Ti footpeg bolts coming from the Denton's to help complete the project.

Stevie; will you have the bar clamp with the special bolt spacing and the Ti footpeg bolts soon?

mike
StevieD113 wrote:
The bar clamp came back from anodising just as we were locking up last night Mike. Corne, is sorting out the details of the footrest bolts...
The bar clamp came back from anodising just as we were locking up last night Mike.

Corne, is sorting out the details of the footrest bolts for me today. I was sure we had done them before but I can't find a drawing or a program for them, so I guess I hadn't! Should have it all ready by the end of the week.

Stevie
Hi Stevie,

I got the specs from Corne for the HRC titanium foot peg mount bolts and sent you a diagram by email. You should have the specs on just about every HRC fastener by now Wink . Looking forward to seeing the HRC replica bar clamp soon, too!

thanks,
mike
5/28/2018 9:23am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2018 1:27pm
Japan HRC often used teal colored aluminum fasters around this period, but this color is not so easy to find. I found these at OPP in California and got a bunch for this build.

Build is almost done.. just waiting on a bunch of final HRC and HRC replica parts to arrive from various sources.
Chance1216
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5/30/2018 6:45am Edited Date/Time 5/30/2018 11:01am
I know this is a bit late. I noticed in your first phase of your restore you asked what was a good way to cut hoses. For future reference.These can be purchased at home depot in the plumbing department. I use these daily at work being a plumber myself. They will cut clean as they are super sharp. If they get dull the blade is reversible. They're about $25.
6/2/2018 6:28pm
Chance1216 wrote:
I know this is a bit late. I noticed in your first phase of your restore you asked what was a good way to cut hoses...
I know this is a bit late. I noticed in your first phase of your restore you asked what was a good way to cut hoses. For future reference.These can be purchased at home depot in the plumbing department. I use these daily at work being a plumber myself. They will cut clean as they are super sharp. If they get dull the blade is reversible. They're about $25.
Thanks.. I used my wife's meat scissors when she wasn't looking. Never mess with Japanese and their cutlery. Japanese often use super sharp scissors to cut meat.. these scissors can cut a big thick steak in half with one snip. Works good on hoses, too Wink
6/2/2018 6:51pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2018 7:37am
Unlike the billet works brake caliper on modern factory Hondas, the works Nissin front brake caliper during this era was cast and hard to visually distinguish from the OEM unit. However, the master cylinder HRC used was quite different in design. Through the 90's to early 2000's, Japan HRC used the same black colored Nissin MC in which the front brake line screwed straight into the master cylinder. The US Honda team used the same master cylinder in 2000, but from 2001, it looked like they switched to what looked like the gray cast OEM master cylinder that used a banjo fitting. Anyway, to look the part of the Japan RC250M build, I needed to make my master cylinder black, so I sent it off to Clayton at Trick Engineering. Clayton applied a gloss black Cerakote and installed a new sight glass. Turn around was reasonably quick.. thanks Clayton! Check it out..



On the bike with a period correct Renthal bar pad. These older pads are much wider than the newer ones...


Chance1216
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6/3/2018 2:23am Edited Date/Time 6/9/2022 5:41pm
Chance1216 wrote:
I know this is a bit late. I noticed in your first phase of your restore you asked what was a good way to cut hoses...
I know this is a bit late. I noticed in your first phase of your restore you asked what was a good way to cut hoses. For future reference.These can be purchased at home depot in the plumbing department. I use these daily at work being a plumber myself. They will cut clean as they are super sharp. If they get dull the blade is reversible. They're about $25.
Thanks.. I used my wife's meat scissors when she wasn't looking. Never mess with Japanese and their cutlery. Japanese often use super sharp scissors to cut...
Thanks.. I used my wife's meat scissors when she wasn't looking. Never mess with Japanese and their cutlery. Japanese often use super sharp scissors to cut meat.. these scissors can cut a big thick steak in half with one snip. Works good on hoses, too Wink
My step dads mom is Japanese. She had Miyabi shears if I remember correctly. Your bike is looking really nice. I've learned a lot as this bike was being built. Too bad there aren't books out there that have this type of information in regards to the history of these bikes. Maybe that can be your next winter project ?
6/8/2018 10:38pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2018 10:41pm
The Denton's delivered another package today.. and HRC replica bar clamp and some more HRC replica banjo bolts. The titanium hardware with the clamp makes it a really nice piece.. thanks Stevie and Phil! If you are building an HRC replica and even if you do find some of the original HRC hardware, there is probably no way you will find it all. The Denton's are an essential partner for the hardware. Of special note is their HRC Ti kickstarter bolt.. a work of art and their titanium kickstarter knuckle.

Those bar mount studs shown below are titanium!

These are not the HRC clamps that the Japan team used, but are like the ones that the US and GP team used. I like the looks better than what the Japan team used which was a simple raw aluminum piece that I think was made by Showa.
1
6/8/2018 10:40pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2018 10:41pm
oops.. wrong photo on the titanium studs..
6/11/2018 12:40pm Edited Date/Time 6/11/2018 12:45pm
I had a very nice CNC aluminum HRC replica clutch cover on the bike. While it was a technically superior piece to the crude cast magnesium piece HRC used, the very light gray appearance made it look different from the real item. To keep the magnesium pieces from rotting, HRC had them coated with Dow 9 (greyish black) coating or Dow 7 (dark grey) coating. This coating wore fast and was only intended to keep the magnesium from rotting rather than look good. After a few races, the covers looked like HRC bought them used off ebay. These Dow coatings are hard to get someone to do for you unless you have a major volume order and I didn't want to paint the covers. I found this product called "Aluminum Black" which is a mild acid used for blackening scratches on aluminum gun parts. I applied it with an acid brush. Here is the cover bubbling slightly with a coat of acid on it. I applied it at least 10-14 times as the blacking happened gradually and was splotchy at first...

After it was nice and black all over, I soaked in a pail of water to neutralize the acid, gave it a rub down with a cloth, then another wash with liquid soap. Here is what she looks like right after that stage...

As the cover "dried" or aired out over night, the coating turned more of a dark grey which is very similar to the Dow coating that HRC used. Here is the result the next day. The color may continue to turn more grey over time, perhaps...

It looks very much like the actual HRC cover with the Dow coating I think. I will take another picture if the color continues to turn to a dark grey...

mxBryan
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6/11/2018 12:53pm
Looks spot on if judging on the color, good job !

Would be cool to re create the boot rubbings on the cover. Like you also mentioned, the DOW coatings wear pretty fast. That way it could look even more authentic. Either way you did a great job Mike !

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