Used to think "Gun Control" was the answer.

easydoesit
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3/17/2018 4:59pm
easydoesit wrote:
Which are the Western countries that allow military style firearms? I'm not trying to be cute, serious question. I searched and could not find any info...
Which are the Western countries that allow military style firearms?
I'm not trying to be cute, serious question. I searched and could not find any info pertaining to this.
Most countries in Europe: Germany, Holland, France, Poland, Switzerland, Austria, Portugal, Czech Republic etc. The channel Islands, The Isle of Man, New Zealand and Canada. Even...
Most countries in Europe: Germany, Holland, France, Poland, Switzerland, Austria, Portugal, Czech Republic etc. The channel Islands, The Isle of Man, New Zealand and Canada. Even the UK allows military style box fed, slug firing semi-auto shotguns & rimfire, though nothing self loading in centrefire from a rifled barrel e.g .223 etc.
Thanks for the info.

What about registration? Does the owner need to register the weapons?
3/17/2018 5:03pm
easydoesit wrote:
Which are the Western countries that allow military style firearms? I'm not trying to be cute, serious question. I searched and could not find any info...
Which are the Western countries that allow military style firearms?
I'm not trying to be cute, serious question. I searched and could not find any info pertaining to this.
JustMX wrote:
Kind or wondering that myself. Seems like I remember Switzerland citizens are armed to the teeth, which comes with required military service. I can't recall another...
Kind or wondering that myself.

Seems like I remember Switzerland citizens are armed to the teeth, which comes with required military service.

I can't recall another country that allows assault weapons
I used to go to Switzerland every weekend.

100% different culture there. Way beyond anything here.

Spend a few weekends in San Diego at the clubs. The jarheads are collecively some of the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet. And all they want to do is get in fistfights every weekend.

It’s truly apples & oranges when comparing what our military spits out versus Switzerland. The talent pools each are starting with might as well be different species.
3/17/2018 5:09pm
easydoesit wrote:
I do agree on the slippery slope analogy. As far as you owning assault rifle type weapons...do you think you stand a fighting chance against the...
I do agree on the slippery slope analogy.

As far as you owning assault rifle type weapons...do you think you stand a fighting chance against the US military?
Protection against a government by the civilians arming themselves might have made sense 200 years ago, but not today.
Who do you think makes up the military in this country ? People that want to take over the world? Hardly buddy. It’s Made up of...
Who do you think makes up the military in this country ? People that want to take over the world? Hardly buddy. It’s Made up of people that want to help the world.....and we do every single day. Through humanitarian aid, elimination of tyrants, foreign aid, medical aid.....clean water....healthcare. We provide it all. Hell we patch up enemies we shoot, guys blow themselves to hell and survive with IEDs and show up at a FOB and the American military treats their wounds. (Not possible you say? It is possible. It happens.). Americans on the left. Enemies on the right in the ward. Humane care given. But we are bunch of murderous raping mongles...right. Gtfo. And the private doesn’t stand a chance against the big bad military. The private citizen who decides to raise their right hand on their own free will Is what makes our military big and bad.

You think if I was directed by government to exterminate people in this country I would do it ? That’s not a lawful order. AND NO MILITARY PERSONNEL IS GONNA DESTROY THEIR OWN COUNTRY. OUR Military is made up of VOLUNTEERS.

That Makes your citizen against the military point mute. The military is made up of citizens. We ain’t gonna kill ourselves.
U must’ve missed class the day they went over Kent State massacre.

Or better yet, they dont even teach about the MOVE bombings.

Soldiers follow orders. No matter how grotesque. I suggest brushing up on the Milgram Experiment.

Ive seen American soldiers slam women in the face with the butts of their shotguns. And pry open the eyes of defenseless protesters and pour liquid pepper spray into their eyes. Dont for a second doubt what a soldier is capable of doing to his/her own country.
3/17/2018 5:10pm
easydoesit wrote:
Thanks for the info.

What about registration? Does the owner need to register the weapons?
Yes, absolutely. Heavy vetting, registration and (usually) club membership/proven usage are required. There are differences between what can be owned and when from country to country of course, but it's broadly the similar system across the west that works very well.

Just to clarify; as much as I believe in that system here etc, I personally believe it's of limited use (at best) to America because America has a unique history/culture/geography and subsequent number of firearms in circulation.

The Shop

easydoesit
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3/17/2018 5:17pm
easydoesit wrote:
Thanks for the info.

What about registration? Does the owner need to register the weapons?
Yes, absolutely. Heavy vetting, registration and (usually) club membership/proven usage are required. There are differences between what can be owned and when from country to country...
Yes, absolutely. Heavy vetting, registration and (usually) club membership/proven usage are required. There are differences between what can be owned and when from country to country of course, but it's broadly the similar system across the west that works very well.

Just to clarify; as much as I believe in that system here etc, I personally believe it's of limited use (at best) to America because America has a unique history/culture/geography and subsequent number of firearms in circulation.
Thanks again, that is real good info.
FastEddy
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3/17/2018 5:19pm
Yes, absolutely. Heavy vetting, registration and (usually) club membership/proven usage are required. There are differences between what can be owned and when from country to country...
Yes, absolutely. Heavy vetting, registration and (usually) club membership/proven usage are required. There are differences between what can be owned and when from country to country of course, but it's broadly the similar system across the west that works very well.

Just to clarify; as much as I believe in that system here etc, I personally believe it's of limited use (at best) to America because America has a unique history/culture/geography and subsequent number of firearms in circulation.
Here is the USA...true military weapons such as machine guns and select fire tri-burst weapons,SBR's,suppressors,launchers 40mm and up and AOW's ,short shotguns under an 18inch barrel,Etc...have to be registered with the NFA and there's a $200 tax stamp you have to pay and it can be a several month wait.

But as for firearms for sporting or defense there is no federal registry.
3/17/2018 5:35pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2018 5:36pm
FastEddy wrote:
Here is the USA...[b][i]true military weapons[/i][/b] such as machine guns and select fire tri-burst weapons,SBR's,suppressors,launchers 40mm and up and AOW's ,short shotguns under an 18inch barrel,Etc...have...
Here is the USA...true military weapons such as machine guns and select fire tri-burst weapons,SBR's,suppressors,launchers 40mm and up and AOW's ,short shotguns under an 18inch barrel,Etc...have to be registered with the NFA and there's a $200 tax stamp you have to pay and it can be a several month wait.

But as for firearms for sporting or defense there is no federal registry.
Yeah, I'm pretty desperate to visit the U.S on a gun trip tbh, sounds fun. Ironically suppressors are extremely easy to own here. I can walk in to any gun shop tomorrow and buy any suppressor I want. I only need permission on my FAC to fit, though this is almost always granted as it's easy to make the case for anti-social, health & safety reasons. If the suppressor is an integral part of the barrel then I don't even need to do that. (Sry OP, not trying to turn into gun thread, Ill stop now).

FastEddy
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3/17/2018 5:43pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2018 5:43pm
Yeah, I'm pretty desperate to visit the U.S on a gun trip tbh, sounds fun. Ironically suppressors are extremely easy to own here. I can walk...
Yeah, I'm pretty desperate to visit the U.S on a gun trip tbh, sounds fun. Ironically suppressors are extremely easy to own here. I can walk in to any gun shop tomorrow and buy any suppressor I want. I only need permission on my FAC to fit, though this is almost always granted as it's easy to make the case for anti-social, health & safety reasons. If the suppressor is an integral part of the barrel then I don't even need to do that. (Sry OP, not trying to turn into gun thread, Ill stop now).

If you ever do ,do it for a Vegas Supercross round.
There's places like this where you can shoot machine guns and all sorts of stuff.
https://machinegunexperience.com

Yeah,here we haven't evolved to that stage of health & safety reasons in regards to suppressors,they are still misunderstood and people think they are only for hit-man & gangsters.
Someday they will get it.
3/17/2018 6:38pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2018 6:53pm
easydoesit wrote:
I do agree on the slippery slope analogy. As far as you owning assault rifle type weapons...do you think you stand a fighting chance against the...
I do agree on the slippery slope analogy.

As far as you owning assault rifle type weapons...do you think you stand a fighting chance against the US military?
Protection against a government by the civilians arming themselves might have made sense 200 years ago, but not today.
Who do you think makes up the military in this country ? People that want to take over the world? Hardly buddy. It’s Made up of...
Who do you think makes up the military in this country ? People that want to take over the world? Hardly buddy. It’s Made up of people that want to help the world.....and we do every single day. Through humanitarian aid, elimination of tyrants, foreign aid, medical aid.....clean water....healthcare. We provide it all. Hell we patch up enemies we shoot, guys blow themselves to hell and survive with IEDs and show up at a FOB and the American military treats their wounds. (Not possible you say? It is possible. It happens.). Americans on the left. Enemies on the right in the ward. Humane care given. But we are bunch of murderous raping mongles...right. Gtfo. And the private doesn’t stand a chance against the big bad military. The private citizen who decides to raise their right hand on their own free will Is what makes our military big and bad.

You think if I was directed by government to exterminate people in this country I would do it ? That’s not a lawful order. AND NO MILITARY PERSONNEL IS GONNA DESTROY THEIR OWN COUNTRY. OUR Military is made up of VOLUNTEERS.

That Makes your citizen against the military point mute. The military is made up of citizens. We ain’t gonna kill ourselves.
U must’ve missed class the day they went over Kent State massacre. Or better yet, they dont even teach about the MOVE bombings. Soldiers follow orders...
U must’ve missed class the day they went over Kent State massacre.

Or better yet, they dont even teach about the MOVE bombings.

Soldiers follow orders. No matter how grotesque. I suggest brushing up on the Milgram Experiment.

Ive seen American soldiers slam women in the face with the butts of their shotguns. And pry open the eyes of defenseless protesters and pour liquid pepper spray into their eyes. Dont for a second doubt what a soldier is capable of doing to his/her own country.
(Funny I got a degree from Kent State) I know all about it....the national guard didn’t just light them up to light them up. It was a break down of both sides, and in both sides had agitated and scared kids. You only get that unarmed were gunned down the day of in class today. But you don’t get that the town was in a state of turmoil for a couple days. With businesses being threatened to be burned to the ground if they didn’t display anti-war slogans. THey (probably not even students) threatened to destroy the rotc building. . So you can see why both sides were agitated now yes? For their to be a state of emergency declared days before it was pretty tense..... But, believe what you want to believe. Don’t for a second doubt what an American student is capable of doing to the country. students dressed up in military fatigues and gas masks and protested. Then the town started getting burnt down....state of emergency declared....makes sense why the guard was called in....

I know nothing About the move bombings. Can’t comment. I’ll try to research.

As far as butt stocks to the face...pepper spray in the eyes....Where’d you see that ? What deployment were you on when you saw it ? Had to be very tough to witness that first hand.

Frat boys get in just as many fist fights as jarheads. Because they’re kids. Big deal. I’m having a hard time understanding some of your points. Trying to, but can’t get a grasp on what’s reality. Must be somewhere in the middle of both of our opinions right?
3/17/2018 8:36pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2018 8:36pm
(Funny I got a degree from Kent State) I know all about it....the national guard didn’t just light them up to light them up. It was...
(Funny I got a degree from Kent State) I know all about it....the national guard didn’t just light them up to light them up. It was a break down of both sides, and in both sides had agitated and scared kids. You only get that unarmed were gunned down the day of in class today. But you don’t get that the town was in a state of turmoil for a couple days. With businesses being threatened to be burned to the ground if they didn’t display anti-war slogans. THey (probably not even students) threatened to destroy the rotc building. . So you can see why both sides were agitated now yes? For their to be a state of emergency declared days before it was pretty tense..... But, believe what you want to believe. Don’t for a second doubt what an American student is capable of doing to the country. students dressed up in military fatigues and gas masks and protested. Then the town started getting burnt down....state of emergency declared....makes sense why the guard was called in....

I know nothing About the move bombings. Can’t comment. I’ll try to research.

As far as butt stocks to the face...pepper spray in the eyes....Where’d you see that ? What deployment were you on when you saw it ? Had to be very tough to witness that first hand.

Frat boys get in just as many fist fights as jarheads. Because they’re kids. Big deal. I’m having a hard time understanding some of your points. Trying to, but can’t get a grasp on what’s reality. Must be somewhere in the middle of both of our opinions right?
Let me know when it's being proposed that Frat Boys are being allowed freedoms that Im not allowed and I'll gladly point out how idiotic that segment of the gene pool is. Until then, they are not relevant to the topic.

You said it, they're kids. Idiotic ones at that. You're never going to justify why those dipshits should get full use of the 2A and I get a neutered version of it. The talent pool the military is recruiting from has never been worse as far as from a intellectual standpoint. That aint the military's fault. But it does reflect poorly when our society wants that genetic stock armed and the rest of us not. And dont get me wrong, it's not like the kids who go to college are any brighter. They're literally the fuckers who want to strip us of the 2A and arm only the kids they all think they're superior too intellectually. How'd we get here? Critical thinking gets you punished from a very early age in our public school system, so what you're left with are a bunch of easily led sheep when it's all said and done.



I wasnt on any deployment when I saw soldiers assaulting peaceful protesters. That shit happened right here on American soil. Peaceful protesters who were chained to each other, sitting in the streets and on the steps of buildings. I watched as a sheriff would pry open the eyes of women and pour the pepper spray in. The screams were horrific. And to then in tow was a soldier who would strike them to the head to try and knock them silent. God Bless America right? This is the shit they will never show on CNN or Fox News.

But these days thanks to camera phones & social media, you dont have to look hard to find another instance of a cop shooting an unarmed civilian these days. For decades nobody would believe that shit went on. Now there's proof.


Humans are flawed. Between the Milgram Experiments and the Stanford Experiment, it really exposes our darkest capabilities. That's reality. It's why I have no faith in governments or authority. Humans fail the system at every turn. Politicians are liars by trade and cops do evil shit because humans arent meant for that sorta power/responsibility. Ive been sexually assaulted twice in my life. Once by a sheriff while in jail. Another time by a TSA agent in plain sight at SEATAC. (The TSA agent was fired for it after the video surveillance was reviewed by authorities but in order to get things escalated that far I had to waive all my rights). Did any of the other TSA agents who witnessed the act do anything to step in? No. They were itching for me to defend myself so I could get made a further example of.


As for the Kent St Massacre.... ultimately, the kids were right. The war was wrong. I have no problem with the lengths American activists were willing to go to get their message across. Again, they were in the RIGHT. The establishment had two options, do the right thing (pull out of the war immediately) and everyone will stop protesting. Or try to stop the protesting by use of force. The establishment chose wrong. Go figure. Humans generally suck, and giving them the power or authority that government wields only amplifies such matters.
newmann
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3/17/2018 8:38pm
Gun Control? How about throwing Cruz and Roof out of a helicopter while I have popcorn and a coke?
captmoto
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3/17/2018 9:16pm
easydoesit wrote:
I get it man. I'm a gun owner. But sensible gun laws need to be enacted. There is no reason to have weapons designed for the...
I get it man. I'm a gun owner.

But sensible gun laws need to be enacted.
There is no reason to have weapons designed for the military in civilian hands.
Do you own a bolt action rifle? It was designed for military use.
easydoesit
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3/18/2018 8:21am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2018 8:31am
easydoesit wrote:
I get it man. I'm a gun owner. But sensible gun laws need to be enacted. There is no reason to have weapons designed for the...
I get it man. I'm a gun owner.

But sensible gun laws need to be enacted.
There is no reason to have weapons designed for the military in civilian hands.
captmoto wrote:
Do you own a bolt action rifle? It was designed for military use.
The weapon of choice of all front line soldiers in the world.
FastEddy
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3/18/2018 8:57am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2018 9:22am
easydoesit wrote:
The weapon of choice of all front line soldiers in the world.
HK416 is the standard these days for most assaulters and guys trained in cqb in many branches on the front lines doing door to door etc....
Most like them better than the select fire M4's for various reasons...the 416 is gas piston.
The 416 lowers arent available to civilians in the USA.
The civilian version is a MR 556 A1 - great carbines too - just semi auto though and heavier and they arent correctly setup for OTB like most of the 416's are.

Here's a demo of a guy playing with a 416.

https://youtu.be/jSehsbW2Llk
easydoesit
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3/18/2018 9:25am
^^ So that is how you define a bolt action rifle? Jeez.
FastEddy
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3/18/2018 10:14am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2018 10:23am
easydoesit wrote:
^^ So that is how you define a bolt action rifle? Jeez.
It's got a bolt in it just not manual. Smile

A random true manual Bolt Action used by the military these days that civilians can also buy are the variations of the Barret M90's ( different models in .50 BMG).

Not really my cup of tea. Smile
You can stop a train with it...But also very spendy to shoot.
However,there's hobbyist shooting clubs & target competitions just dedicated to the .50 BMG's...



Military firing one..in the semi auto version the 107.
https://youtu.be/ksUOa3EfTsM



Civilian firing one...
https://youtu.be/Puz8MeTxvpw
newmann
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3/18/2018 10:29am
Why would we want to ban these?


JAFO92
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3/18/2018 10:39am
^ All my GI Joes had that carbine !
FastEddy
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3/18/2018 10:57am
newmann wrote:
Why would we want to ban these? [img]https://publicism.info/reference/firearms/firearms.files/image081.jpg[/img]
Why would we want to ban these?


I always liked the paratrooper versions of those m1 .30 cals.





How times have changed.... Smile
The MP7 in 4.6×30mm




MR. X
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3/18/2018 10:59am


Gotta get them evil lever action pieces as well.

easydoesit
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3/18/2018 11:09am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2018 11:35am
Yes, of course, we all know those bolt action and lever action guns are known for their sustained high firing rate.

We can't forget about snubnosed revolvers too...

FastEddy
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3/18/2018 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2018 3:29pm
Is that an old semi-auto Remington Model 11 (1930s maybe)?
3/18/2018 4:48pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2018 5:03pm
Kent students weren’t right. They were burning their town down.

And the protesters sitting in the streets....you can’t sit in the street. Sit on the side walk. You can’t sit in a street and impede everyone else’s daily life. They were asked to disperse and peacefully protest off of the street. They didn’t move off the street. They deserved pepper spray.


Eh...over it.


Getting Back on track here...


I do know that none of these rifles are at any risk of blowing away American lives. Targets....and 10 inch steel plates....will get massacred. Ding. Ding. Ding.
APLMAN99
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3/18/2018 8:20pm
Kent students weren’t right. They were burning their town down. And the protesters sitting in the streets....you can’t sit in the street. Sit on the side...
Kent students weren’t right. They were burning their town down.

And the protesters sitting in the streets....you can’t sit in the street. Sit on the side walk. You can’t sit in a street and impede everyone else’s daily life. They were asked to disperse and peacefully protest off of the street. They didn’t move off the street. They deserved pepper spray.


Eh...over it.


Getting Back on track here...


I do know that none of these rifles are at any risk of blowing away American lives. Targets....and 10 inch steel plates....will get massacred. Ding. Ding. Ding.
While I've seen references to bonfires, and 30+ years ago our CWP teacher talked about bonfires in the streets, I've never heard of any building actually being burned except for the deserted, soon to be demolished ROTC building that was on the campus. Can you share which other buildings and/or businesses were burned? Any factual sources for the claim that protestors were "burning their town down"?

The students/protestors were right, the war in Vietnam was nothing more than our politicians trying to prop up puppets that they thought that they could control. When the French decided that they were sick of sacrificing their young men, the shit holes in our government didn't mind sacrificing tens of thousands of ours.

That's not denigrating our troops, soldiers do what they are commanded to do. But our political leaders not only got soldiers killed in their silly game, they also got several innocent civilians at home killed as well.
3/19/2018 12:06pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
While I've seen references to bonfires, and 30+ years ago our CWP teacher talked about bonfires in the streets, I've never heard of any building actually...
While I've seen references to bonfires, and 30+ years ago our CWP teacher talked about bonfires in the streets, I've never heard of any building actually being burned except for the deserted, soon to be demolished ROTC building that was on the campus. Can you share which other buildings and/or businesses were burned? Any factual sources for the claim that protestors were "burning their town down"?

The students/protestors were right, the war in Vietnam was nothing more than our politicians trying to prop up puppets that they thought that they could control. When the French decided that they were sick of sacrificing their young men, the shit holes in our government didn't mind sacrificing tens of thousands of ours.

That's not denigrating our troops, soldiers do what they are commanded to do. But our political leaders not only got soldiers killed in their silly game, they also got several innocent civilians at home killed as well.
And that was my point. As proven by the Milgram Experiments (and plenty of actual human history), that humans are capable of some truly heinous acts when "following orders".

But rather than admit that, we got someone here trying to justify the Vietnam War and also justify jamming pepper spray into the eyes of defenseless protesters.

I guess if you dont want to admit that you're capable of doing evil shit, the solution is to deny the deeds are even evil. This is a microcosm of why nothing improves in society. Americans will do anything to protect their paradigms, even if that includes rationalizing the insane. For whatever reason, it's much easier to move the goal posts than it is to change one's opinion or perspective.
Mr. G
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3/19/2018 4:16pm
Mr. G wrote:
FastEddy wrote:
Is that an old semi-auto Remington Model 11 (1930s maybe)?
It is! Always liked the look of those things.
Stoneface
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3/20/2018 9:53am
http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/?m=1

Check out the second article on today's blog, Federal Judiciary Infected

Can we just try to consistently and fairly enforce the gun laws we have now before we introduce a raft of new ones? Tough sentencing and high bails are considered unfair in Illinois. Discouraging for people of all walks who just want safe neighborhoods.
fullysicmate
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3/21/2018 8:41pm
Yeah, I'm pretty desperate to visit the U.S on a gun trip tbh, sounds fun. Ironically suppressors are extremely easy to own here. I can walk...
Yeah, I'm pretty desperate to visit the U.S on a gun trip tbh, sounds fun. Ironically suppressors are extremely easy to own here. I can walk in to any gun shop tomorrow and buy any suppressor I want. I only need permission on my FAC to fit, though this is almost always granted as it's easy to make the case for anti-social, health & safety reasons. If the suppressor is an integral part of the barrel then I don't even need to do that. (Sry OP, not trying to turn into gun thread, Ill stop now).

FastEddy wrote:
If you ever do ,do it for a Vegas Supercross round. There's places like this where you can shoot machine guns and all sorts of stuff...
If you ever do ,do it for a Vegas Supercross round.
There's places like this where you can shoot machine guns and all sorts of stuff.
https://machinegunexperience.com

Yeah,here we haven't evolved to that stage of health & safety reasons in regards to suppressors,they are still misunderstood and people think they are only for hit-man & gangsters.
Someday they will get it.
I did the same thing while I was in Vegas, make sure you visit Bass Pro as well, that place blew me away, I was walking around the store taking photos. It's amazing.

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