Should E-Start be allowed in professional SX/MX?

Acidreamer
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Acidreamer 1/9/2018 10:25am
1/9/2018 10:25am
SHOULD TIRES WITH MORE THAN 1/8” TREAD BE ALLOWED?
seth505
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seth505 1/9/2018 10:26am
1/9/2018 10:26am
Sure, but there should be no starting devices, so stupid.
GuyB
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GuyB 1/9/2018 10:26am
1/9/2018 10:26am
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
This thread was destined for greatness.
If by greatness you mean massive facepalm, then yes, it's destined for greatness.

I'd suggest that if Eli Tomac had e-start on his Kawi last year at the Met Life Stadium SX, and hadn't taken struggled for what seemed like an eternity to restart his bike after a crash, he'd be riding with a number one on his bike, rather than a number three this season.
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kaptkaos 1/9/2018 10:30am
1/9/2018 10:30am
righteousrichaad wrote:
they should be allowed what ever the bike is sold with for a starter but to add to your point, the bikes shouldn't have start devices...
they should be allowed what ever the bike is sold with for a starter

but to add to your point, the bikes shouldn't have start devices, ecu, all these sensors n shit. they are professional they should know what the bike is doing and how to ride it. should be next to stock but allow basic changes, suspension, wheels, exhaust, levers and bars.

just as baseball professionals must use wood bats, and football players shouldn't have these sticky gloves to catch.

amateurs can do what ever but once your a pro, lets see what you really got.

would also help the manufacture push for better bikes to the public to make better bikes for their guys to race.
I like this post!

I do wish the pros had to race what they sell so we get better bikes, however, that means all development and testing has to be done under non-racing conditions so it might be a catch-22.

I like the no-works bike rule and think we should take a little further but not to stifle development.

Perhaps the lites class should be a stock bike rules class? In F1 you are only allowed a set number of engines per season...

I say remove the Start maps and holeshot devices though. I also wish they allowed team to rider communication.

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Turbojez 1/9/2018 10:45am
1/9/2018 10:45am
Eljott wrote:
Great. Whats next? No pants?
They make riding way too easy bro.
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Eljott 1/9/2018 10:49am
1/9/2018 10:49am
Eljott wrote:
Great. Whats next? No pants?
Turbojez wrote:
They make riding way too easy bro.
That's my point. Not good for racing.
nickm
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nickm 1/9/2018 10:50am
1/9/2018 10:50am
IMO the no works bike rule has just ended up with showrooms full of $10,000 bikes that nobody wants to buy. Its done nothing for closing the competition at the top level. The fast guys are fast no matter what they are on, and the fans would love to see the top riders on bikes dripping with exotic unobtanium. This is what makes moto GP a massive success and is the navel gazing thinking that continues to stifle SX.

On estart, ...its called SX/MX, not "who can kick over an engine".

Just one guys opinion.
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bvm111 1/9/2018 10:52am
1/9/2018 10:52am


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Turbojez 1/9/2018 10:53am
1/9/2018 10:53am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Ding Ding Ding! Is it because MotoGP doesn't have the technology yet??? :laugh: They could have put starters on GP bikes 50+ years ago but instead...
Ding Ding Ding!

Is it because MotoGP doesn't have the technology yet??? Laughing They could have put starters on GP bikes 50+ years ago but instead they reward riders for staying on two wheels and still penalize the mistakes.

Based on some of the responses above we'll soon have retractable hydraulic training wheels, windshields so the poor kids don't get hit by roost, oxygen tanks for breathing, AC units for body cooling, airbags, and maybe even deployable carbon roll cages in SX/MX? This is all easily done with technology, so why not?? LMAO
This comparison makes no sense whatsoever.
Ever seen a motoGP bike come anything close to an almost complete stop in a corner?
Brake the rear wheel to full stop mid-air? Rear wheel lacking traction? You know, all those situations when there is actually a chance of stalling the engine. That's when you might need to re-start it.
Not a lot of circumstances to need to re-start a bike on a motoGP track...
Forty
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Forty 1/9/2018 10:58am
1/9/2018 10:58am
Give us suspension that responds to tuning and works as delivered......!

I mean besides Yamahas 11 year old stuff.
Black Diesel Bomber 1/9/2018 11:03am
1/9/2018 11:03am
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
This thread was destined for greatness.
GuyB wrote:
If by greatness you mean massive facepalm, then yes, it's destined for greatness. I'd suggest that if Eli Tomac had e-start on his Kawi last year...
If by greatness you mean massive facepalm, then yes, it's destined for greatness.

I'd suggest that if Eli Tomac had e-start on his Kawi last year at the Met Life Stadium SX, and hadn't taken struggled for what seemed like an eternity to restart his bike after a crash, he'd be riding with a number one on his bike, rather than a number three this season.
Thanks for making my point....Eli shouldn't have fallen in the first place or he would have been the champ! Why does he need a button for an easy re-start to reward him for falling?
Black Diesel Bomber 1/9/2018 11:05am
1/9/2018 11:05am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Ding Ding Ding! Is it because MotoGP doesn't have the technology yet??? :laugh: They could have put starters on GP bikes 50+ years ago but instead...
Ding Ding Ding!

Is it because MotoGP doesn't have the technology yet??? Laughing They could have put starters on GP bikes 50+ years ago but instead they reward riders for staying on two wheels and still penalize the mistakes.

Based on some of the responses above we'll soon have retractable hydraulic training wheels, windshields so the poor kids don't get hit by roost, oxygen tanks for breathing, AC units for body cooling, airbags, and maybe even deployable carbon roll cages in SX/MX? This is all easily done with technology, so why not?? LMAO
Turbojez wrote:
This comparison makes no sense whatsoever. Ever seen a motoGP bike come anything close to an almost complete stop in a corner? Brake the rear wheel...
This comparison makes no sense whatsoever.
Ever seen a motoGP bike come anything close to an almost complete stop in a corner?
Brake the rear wheel to full stop mid-air? Rear wheel lacking traction? You know, all those situations when there is actually a chance of stalling the engine. That's when you might need to re-start it.
Not a lot of circumstances to need to re-start a bike on a motoGP track...
You clearly don't watch MotoGP.....there are plenty of opportunities to re-start and get going again, are you serious? Go watch some races and you will see the riders asking the track workers for assistance to push their bikes in hopes of bump starting.

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GuyB 1/9/2018 11:15am
1/9/2018 11:15am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Thanks for making my point....Eli shouldn't have fallen in the first place or he would have been the champ! Why does he need a button for...
Thanks for making my point....Eli shouldn't have fallen in the first place or he would have been the champ! Why does he need a button for an easy re-start to reward him for falling?
I actually wasn’t trying to validate your point.

For all the time, effort, and money that goes into chasing a title, these days it’s a disadvantage to not have e-start. To not have it for something as simple as a stall or tip-over, and have that potentially change the outcome of a championship? Why wouldn’t teams want that?

peelout
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peelout 1/9/2018 11:18am
1/9/2018 11:18am
GuyB wrote:
I actually wasn’t trying to validate your point. For all the time, effort, and money that goes into chasing a title, these days it’s a disadvantage...
I actually wasn’t trying to validate your point.

For all the time, effort, and money that goes into chasing a title, these days it’s a disadvantage to not have e-start. To not have it for something as simple as a stall or tip-over, and have that potentially change the outcome of a championship? Why wouldn’t teams want that?

Why wouldn’t teams want that?


... to save face with the old-school core group that want hand-crank trucks and wood-staked grass motocross tracks back?
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GuyB 1/9/2018 11:22am
1/9/2018 11:22am
peelout wrote:
Why wouldn’t teams want that?


... to save face with the old-school core group that want hand-crank trucks and wood-staked grass motocross tracks back?
Possibly my favorite National of all time was a wood-staked grass track (at Racing World) in '78 or so.

I love the current tracks, but that was pretty damn cool.
backinthesaddleagain 1/9/2018 11:34am
1/9/2018 11:34am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
You clearly don't watch MotoGP.....there are plenty of opportunities to re-start and get going again, are you serious? Go watch some races and you will see...
You clearly don't watch MotoGP.....there are plenty of opportunities to re-start and get going again, are you serious? Go watch some races and you will see the riders asking the track workers for assistance to push their bikes in hopes of bump starting.

Correct. I remember one year when Casey Stoner was upset with track workers as they helped Rossi get his bike going again before helping Stoner.
backinthesaddleagain 1/9/2018 11:35am
1/9/2018 11:35am
I will say I loved the day I got my MR50 in 1974 and went from a pull start to a kick start.
Black Diesel Bomber 1/9/2018 11:38am
1/9/2018 11:38am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
You clearly don't watch MotoGP.....there are plenty of opportunities to re-start and get going again, are you serious? Go watch some races and you will see...
You clearly don't watch MotoGP.....there are plenty of opportunities to re-start and get going again, are you serious? Go watch some races and you will see the riders asking the track workers for assistance to push their bikes in hopes of bump starting.

backinthesaddleagain wrote:
Correct. I remember one year when Casey Stoner was upset with track workers as they helped Rossi get his bike going again before helping Stoner.
It happens almost every single race, who are these clowns?

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early
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early 1/9/2018 11:44am
1/9/2018 11:44am
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Ding Ding Ding! Is it because MotoGP doesn't have the technology yet??? :laugh: They could have put starters on GP bikes 50+ years ago but instead...
Ding Ding Ding!

Is it because MotoGP doesn't have the technology yet??? Laughing They could have put starters on GP bikes 50+ years ago but instead they reward riders for staying on two wheels and still penalize the mistakes.

Based on some of the responses above we'll soon have retractable hydraulic training wheels, windshields so the poor kids don't get hit by roost, oxygen tanks for breathing, AC units for body cooling, airbags, and maybe even deployable carbon roll cages in SX/MX? This is all easily done with technology, so why not?? LMAO
Turbojez wrote:
This comparison makes no sense whatsoever. Ever seen a motoGP bike come anything close to an almost complete stop in a corner? Brake the rear wheel...
This comparison makes no sense whatsoever.
Ever seen a motoGP bike come anything close to an almost complete stop in a corner?
Brake the rear wheel to full stop mid-air? Rear wheel lacking traction? You know, all those situations when there is actually a chance of stalling the engine. That's when you might need to re-start it.
Not a lot of circumstances to need to re-start a bike on a motoGP track...
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
You clearly don't watch MotoGP.....there are plenty of opportunities to re-start and get going again, are you serious? Go watch some races and you will see...
You clearly don't watch MotoGP.....there are plenty of opportunities to re-start and get going again, are you serious? Go watch some races and you will see the riders asking the track workers for assistance to push their bikes in hopes of bump starting.

The lack of starters in MotoGP isnt there to penalize guys.
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bball35 1/9/2018 11:54am
1/9/2018 11:54am
Just enjoy the sound of engines for goodness sake. In a few years supercross is going to sound like an RC track.
Black Diesel Bomber 1/9/2018 11:56am
1/9/2018 11:56am
Turbojez wrote:
This comparison makes no sense whatsoever. Ever seen a motoGP bike come anything close to an almost complete stop in a corner? Brake the rear wheel...
This comparison makes no sense whatsoever.
Ever seen a motoGP bike come anything close to an almost complete stop in a corner?
Brake the rear wheel to full stop mid-air? Rear wheel lacking traction? You know, all those situations when there is actually a chance of stalling the engine. That's when you might need to re-start it.
Not a lot of circumstances to need to re-start a bike on a motoGP track...
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
You clearly don't watch MotoGP.....there are plenty of opportunities to re-start and get going again, are you serious? Go watch some races and you will see...
You clearly don't watch MotoGP.....there are plenty of opportunities to re-start and get going again, are you serious? Go watch some races and you will see the riders asking the track workers for assistance to push their bikes in hopes of bump starting.

early wrote:
The lack of starters in MotoGP isnt there to penalize guys.
Exactly. However, when they lose the front end, slide into the gravel, remount, and can't get the bike started they lose points by not finishing the race...call this what you want.

So why do you think they have not put starters on GP bikes? Electric starters have been on motorcycles for over 100yrs, so why not put them on a GP race bike?
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datkin128 1/9/2018 12:09pm
1/9/2018 12:09pm
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
This thread was destined for greatness.
GuyB wrote:
If by greatness you mean massive facepalm, then yes, it's destined for greatness. I'd suggest that if Eli Tomac had e-start on his Kawi last year...
If by greatness you mean massive facepalm, then yes, it's destined for greatness.

I'd suggest that if Eli Tomac had e-start on his Kawi last year at the Met Life Stadium SX, and hadn't taken struggled for what seemed like an eternity to restart his bike after a crash, he'd be riding with a number one on his bike, rather than a number three this season.
I believe this is true
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kaptkaos 1/9/2018 12:12pm
1/9/2018 12:12pm
Forty wrote:
Give us suspension that responds to tuning and works as delivered......!

I mean besides Yamahas 11 year old stuff.
X100!!!

Good point.

Even though our suspension is worlds ahead of what I grew up on, I don't understand why it sucks so bad stock and it feels like the clickers are there for show.
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datkin128 1/9/2018 12:13pm
1/9/2018 12:13pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Thanks for making my point....Eli shouldn't have fallen in the first place or he would have been the champ! Why does he need a button for...
Thanks for making my point....Eli shouldn't have fallen in the first place or he would have been the champ! Why does he need a button for an easy re-start to reward him for falling?
GuyB wrote:
I actually wasn’t trying to validate your point. For all the time, effort, and money that goes into chasing a title, these days it’s a disadvantage...
I actually wasn’t trying to validate your point.

For all the time, effort, and money that goes into chasing a title, these days it’s a disadvantage to not have e-start. To not have it for something as simple as a stall or tip-over, and have that potentially change the outcome of a championship? Why wouldn’t teams want that?

I totally agree. Look how fast Anderson got up and tripled at that race in Metlife last year thanks to his e-start. Then look how long Tomac struggled in the ruts to get footing so he could kick his bike over and over and over. Kawi would be crazy not to have e-start on their production bikes (or at least race bikes) next year!
Black Diesel Bomber 1/9/2018 12:17pm
1/9/2018 12:17pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Thanks for making my point....Eli shouldn't have fallen in the first place or he would have been the champ! Why does he need a button for...
Thanks for making my point....Eli shouldn't have fallen in the first place or he would have been the champ! Why does he need a button for an easy re-start to reward him for falling?
GuyB wrote:
I actually wasn’t trying to validate your point. For all the time, effort, and money that goes into chasing a title, these days it’s a disadvantage...
I actually wasn’t trying to validate your point.

For all the time, effort, and money that goes into chasing a title, these days it’s a disadvantage to not have e-start. To not have it for something as simple as a stall or tip-over, and have that potentially change the outcome of a championship? Why wouldn’t teams want that?

Because the Champion should be the guy who makes the least amount of mistakes and keeps it on two wheels. It's simple, don't fall or tip over if you want to be the Champ. Do you remember the consequences of RV's "tip-over" in Seattle? You were probably there right GuyB? Would you have wanted RV to have some deployable airbags to avoid his tip over and prevent the outcome of his mistake? This took him out of the championship right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y_9AoufvIY

Why try to downplay and eliminate the consequence of tipping over? These are the top riders in the world and every mistake should count. You said it yourself, not having one is a disadvantage which means having one is an advantage. If they tip over/crash/wad/yard sale or whatever, they should have to expend energy to remount and kick the bike at max heart rate to get the bike fired again, just like every other Champ in history. Electric start is not a new technology, it's been around for 100+ years. It's a luxury that has been added recently to make for easy starting (4 strokes). They could have put them on SX/MX bikes decades ago, but why didn't they? I'm all for them on my bike, but for the top pros on the planet while competing for the ultimate championship? E-starts would have changed the outcome of many championships over the years, 2-stroke or 4. The results would have been different because the riders who made mistakes would have been rewarded with a "here let me help you join the race again quickly" button after a crash.

But I get it, this "making it easier" for everyone is the new way in America.....

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GuyB 1/9/2018 12:21pm
1/9/2018 12:21pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Because the [b]Champion[/b] should be the guy who makes the [b]least[/b] amount of mistakes and keeps it on two wheels. It's simple, don't fall or tip...
Because the Champion should be the guy who makes the least amount of mistakes and keeps it on two wheels. It's simple, don't fall or tip over if you want to be the Champ. Do you remember the consequences of RV's "tip-over" in Seattle? You were probably there right GuyB? Would you have wanted RV to have some deployable airbags to avoid his tip over and prevent the outcome of his mistake? This took him out of the championship right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y_9AoufvIY

Why try to downplay and eliminate the consequence of tipping over? These are the top riders in the world and every mistake should count. You said it yourself, not having one is a disadvantage which means having one is an advantage. If they tip over/crash/wad/yard sale or whatever, they should have to expend energy to remount and kick the bike at max heart rate to get the bike fired again, just like every other Champ in history. Electric start is not a new technology, it's been around for 100+ years. It's a luxury that has been added recently to make for easy starting (4 strokes). They could have put them on SX/MX bikes decades ago, but why didn't they? I'm all for them on my bike, but for the top pros on the planet while competing for the ultimate championship? E-starts would have changed the outcome of many championships over the years, 2-stroke or 4. The results would have been different because the riders who made mistakes would have been rewarded with a "here let me help you join the race again quickly" button after a crash.

But I get it, this "making it easier" for everyone is the new way in America.....

^^^ Proof that some people just like to argue. Wink
peelout
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peelout 1/9/2018 12:27pm
1/9/2018 12:27pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Because the [b]Champion[/b] should be the guy who makes the [b]least[/b] amount of mistakes and keeps it on two wheels. It's simple, don't fall or tip...
Because the Champion should be the guy who makes the least amount of mistakes and keeps it on two wheels. It's simple, don't fall or tip over if you want to be the Champ. Do you remember the consequences of RV's "tip-over" in Seattle? You were probably there right GuyB? Would you have wanted RV to have some deployable airbags to avoid his tip over and prevent the outcome of his mistake? This took him out of the championship right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y_9AoufvIY

Why try to downplay and eliminate the consequence of tipping over? These are the top riders in the world and every mistake should count. You said it yourself, not having one is a disadvantage which means having one is an advantage. If they tip over/crash/wad/yard sale or whatever, they should have to expend energy to remount and kick the bike at max heart rate to get the bike fired again, just like every other Champ in history. Electric start is not a new technology, it's been around for 100+ years. It's a luxury that has been added recently to make for easy starting (4 strokes). They could have put them on SX/MX bikes decades ago, but why didn't they? I'm all for them on my bike, but for the top pros on the planet while competing for the ultimate championship? E-starts would have changed the outcome of many championships over the years, 2-stroke or 4. The results would have been different because the riders who made mistakes would have been rewarded with a "here let me help you join the race again quickly" button after a crash.

But I get it, this "making it easier" for everyone is the new way in America.....

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wsc96 1/9/2018 12:30pm
1/9/2018 12:30pm
GuyB wrote:
^^^ Proof that some people just like to argue. Wink
I tend to agree with his points. Everyone is in a rush to make things “better” (easier) and we should question whether it is actually better for the sport (racing side).

Eli not winning due to no e-start just makes Kawi look stupid given their competition has the tech. Fact remains though he was in no rush to kick that thing over and get going.
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AZRider 1/9/2018 1:03pm
1/9/2018 1:03pm
Kick starting a bike makes you manly though! RIght? Doing a 30 min + 2 lap moto in 90 degree heat and humidity doesn't prove you're in shape, but kick starting a bike after you fall will? Stupidest thread in a long time and I am dumber for having wasted my time on it.
fullysicmate
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fullysicmate 1/9/2018 11:00pm
1/9/2018 11:00pm Edited Date/Time 1/9/2018 11:01pm
I love seeing Eli kicking his bike. Normally gets it going between 3-6 kicks.........I have seen it cost him up to 8 positions and also 1 championship.

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