Is Eli Tomac the strangest competitor is all of racing sports...?

sickboy3636
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1/7/2018 1:07am
Yes Jorge, that’s exactly what I was saying. You’re so intuitive. Esp Deano....that guys nevvver ridden through a knee injury before. Lmao
Obviously not as intuitive as you, the ability to know someones pain through a TV screen is a real talent!
Oh for sure. Although Jorge, I gotta say I’m actually less intuitive. You’re merely reading a post......you can tell much more about someone’s character and grit by watching them quit repeatedly while competing and faced with trying circumstances. In fact, since the beginning of time these situations actually reveal more about a humans character than any other situations a man will face. So therefore, based on the precise definition of the word, I appreciate your compliment, but I have to say I’m much less intuitive than you.
Rockinar
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1/7/2018 1:22am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2018 1:24am
I just dont think a champ would have stopped to fix his pants unless it was a serious immediate issue. If Musquin can do a heel clicker in mid air I would think Tomac could pull up his pants in mid air if needed. I dont think his shirt even came untucked. Nobody knew there was a pant issue till he stopped.

The whole thing was weird. Like he was just had a panic attack about how it all went down and quit. I dont doubt he banged his shoulder and it hurt like a bitch. But it was not enough to take the focus off his pants.

It was just odd how it all unfolded.
worcsracer808
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1/7/2018 1:30am
rutsmash wrote:
At some point, "random issues" are not random. More reason why Ryan Dungey will be viewed as one of the best in the history of MX/SX...
At some point, "random issues" are not random. More reason why Ryan Dungey will be viewed as one of the best in the history of MX/SX. If they were random, he would have experienced them as well, but rarely did he.
JB 19 wrote:
Dungey had arguably two titles robbed from him in 2011 from "random" issues. Broken chain in supercross and boiling fuel in Texas and a bike that...
Dungey had arguably two titles robbed from him in 2011 from "random" issues. Broken chain in supercross and boiling fuel in Texas and a bike that wouldn't start later at Southwick.
Yeah don't forget when he had that weird tipover in one outdoors race on the KTM and the way the bike landed dumped fuel out, so he had to put his fuel cap on and come and do a fuel stop which cost him points, only time I ever seen or heard about that, seems like some guys have random stuff happen, but how they react makes all the difference.
1/7/2018 1:35am
Oh for sure. Although Jorge, I gotta say I’m actually less intuitive. You’re merely reading a post......you can tell much more about someone’s character and grit...
Oh for sure. Although Jorge, I gotta say I’m actually less intuitive. You’re merely reading a post......you can tell much more about someone’s character and grit by watching them quit repeatedly while competing and faced with trying circumstances. In fact, since the beginning of time these situations actually reveal more about a humans character than any other situations a man will face. So therefore, based on the precise definition of the word, I appreciate your compliment, but I have to say I’m much less intuitive than you.
When have you seen him quit? If I'm not mistaken this is the first race that isn't part of a championship series that he hasn't finished since his injuries in 2015. You can claim the Monster Cup this past year but it's not like we haven't seen someone crash out of that race before, I mean RV did it twice. Do you not consider having to ride an entire moto at Glen Helen without a front brake a trying circumstance?

The Shop

worcsracer808
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1/7/2018 1:37am
drt410 wrote:
He definitely has no urgency when he crashes. I agree completely that he either wants to be out front by 30 seconds or in the trailer...
He definitely has no urgency when he crashes. I agree completely that he either wants to be out front by 30 seconds or in the trailer. Whenever he crashes you can see him throw in the towel right there. If he can keep it on 2 wheels he has the speed to win. If it comes fown to pure grind and determination its not there. All he has is a bruised shoulder. AC had asterisks pop his shoulder back in and ran full speed and jumped onto his bike.

He absolutely could have salvaged a couple points tonight. You win championships on your bad days and Tomac is bad at having bad days. If he loses by 3 points hes gonna kick himself for this. In the McGrath interview he said his 1 regret is pulling off like a diva vs finishing the race at the back of the pack and losing by a couple points to emig in an mx championship because his ego got to him and he didnt wanna ride around at the back of the pack. That interview immediately came to mind tonight same thing. You have to try to finish until you physically or mechanically can not. That didnt happen tonight his ego got to him and he gave up.
Dude, couple excellent points there. RC is always pounding that point home about winning championships on your bad days. That’s what made Dungey so good, the...
Dude, couple excellent points there. RC is always pounding that point home about winning championships on your bad days. That’s what made Dungey so good, the guy didn’t feel the need to push himself to near death to win. But he would slice up a pack like no one I’ve ever seen when he had to. Also McGrath.....I was just watching the interview with him the other day where he was talking about that. Pulling off just cause of pride and it cost him the title. For whatever reason Eli doesn’t get it.

And like you were saying about AC.....or there is a long list of riders who rode through pure hell just to finish. I’ve got a couple shattered collarbones myself, but seeing dudes finish races or come back next week with broken collarbones just makes my skin crawl. But I get it, and I respect the hell out of it. And I’ll note again like I have 10 times. Roczen facing amputation, and to come back inside of a year and nearly podium. Those are the guys I just love watching. I thought Eli would be the next RV, Dungey just based on speed alone, I can say 100% comfortably he never will be solely cause of this. The greats fight through anything, guys like JorgeChavez pull off when they lose their visor or break a nail.
I noticed the no urgency thing too, just lazy slow picking the bike up, kicking slow, I feel like picking the bike up off the ground and firing it up hot should be something all these guys should practice just in case.

Also what I noticed earlier, I believe it was either in the timed practice or the Heats but they were talking about Tomac and how he failed last year but has earned the outdoor title and if that was enough to silence the doubters and get him on track, and RC said he wasnt convinced just yet, like he's seen something in him or just doesn't feel like Tomac has what it takes to be SX champion.
sickboy3636
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1/7/2018 1:41am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2018 1:42am
rutsmash wrote:
At some point, "random issues" are not random. More reason why Ryan Dungey will be viewed as one of the best in the history of MX/SX...
At some point, "random issues" are not random. More reason why Ryan Dungey will be viewed as one of the best in the history of MX/SX. If they were random, he would have experienced them as well, but rarely did he.
JB 19 wrote:
Dungey had arguably two titles robbed from him in 2011 from "random" issues. Broken chain in supercross and boiling fuel in Texas and a bike that...
Dungey had arguably two titles robbed from him in 2011 from "random" issues. Broken chain in supercross and boiling fuel in Texas and a bike that wouldn't start later at Southwick.
Yeah don't forget when he had that weird tipover in one outdoors race on the KTM and the way the bike landed dumped fuel out, so...
Yeah don't forget when he had that weird tipover in one outdoors race on the KTM and the way the bike landed dumped fuel out, so he had to put his fuel cap on and come and do a fuel stop which cost him points, only time I ever seen or heard about that, seems like some guys have random stuff happen, but how they react makes all the difference.
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sickboy3636
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1/7/2018 1:47am
Yeah don't forget when he had that weird tipover in one outdoors race on the KTM and the way the bike landed dumped fuel out, so...
Yeah don't forget when he had that weird tipover in one outdoors race on the KTM and the way the bike landed dumped fuel out, so he had to put his fuel cap on and come and do a fuel stop which cost him points, only time I ever seen or heard about that, seems like some guys have random stuff happen, but how they react makes all the difference.
Very well said, I think that’s the point every is making that all the offended guys fail to grasp. It’s mechanics......and things fail. But what do you do, pull a Dungey from a lap down at the start and frickin podium. Or pull up your pants, and go home. Mark my works, anyone arguing for all the reasons why competitors quit, have never won a single championship in their lives. There are just people with different mentality’s in this world. Which is why there are MC’s, RC’s, RV’s and Dunges...and there are others. People that always look for an excuse. I respect people in the other group that fight till the end unless they physically can’t. I didn’t see RC say that, but if there’s someone that can spot a champion it’s RC. And what he’s saying is an excellent point. Eli doesn’t have champions demeanor......and to this point it’s been his downfall. I keep hoping he’ll come back as a different rider because of his speed and talent.....but year after year, he just doesn’t live up.
sickboy3636
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1/7/2018 1:49am
Rockinar wrote:
I just dont think a champ would have stopped to fix his pants unless it was a serious immediate issue. If Musquin can do a heel...
I just dont think a champ would have stopped to fix his pants unless it was a serious immediate issue. If Musquin can do a heel clicker in mid air I would think Tomac could pull up his pants in mid air if needed. I dont think his shirt even came untucked. Nobody knew there was a pant issue till he stopped.

The whole thing was weird. Like he was just had a panic attack about how it all went down and quit. I dont doubt he banged his shoulder and it hurt like a bitch. But it was not enough to take the focus off his pants.

It was just odd how it all unfolded.
Agreed
Gabriel J
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1/7/2018 2:18am
I'm not in any place to criticize a rider with multiple championships under his belt, but like others have mentioned I've scratched my head with Eli's lack of urgency to get back going when he has tipped over, gone down in a soft crash etc.
Maybe he is actually cool and calm when something goes sideways and rather than freaking out he takes the time to get everything going again, confusing us viewers with his seemingly careless approach. I don't think that he's packing up and quitting when an obstacle arises, it's just that he deals with it different than other racers.

I think plenty of riders are like him, the spotlight isn't on them when things go wrong because they don't have a high profile. Not everyone would do the suicide-shifter method like Dungey if their bike is damaged, most would slow their pace or pull off the track knowing that it could be too dangerous to continue.

Safety is another huge factor, I realize having your pants busted open might not seem like a good reason to pull off a track, but I wouldn't be trying to bang out a triple jump in traffic and have my pants fall down and cause me to have a serious crash during the first race of the year. It's not as though it was an untucked jersey like Anderson, or even the plumbers crack we've seen on occasion when the rider seems a bit too skinny for the pants to stay up when they are buckled.
WCRider
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1/7/2018 2:48am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2018 3:11am
No, he was very good, the only one to go below 53 sec. In pure speed, nobody can deal with him. His crash ? Roczen was very lucky yesterday, he could have also crash hard before the triple.

His pants, What do you want to do ? not easy to ride with a pants at the knees.


I don't know yet what he has at his shoulder, I hope it's not too serious. I m not worried for Eli if his shoulder is ok.

The section where he crash was tricky for a lot of riders.
RG1
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1/7/2018 3:55am
WCRider wrote:
No, he was very good, the only one to go below 53 sec. In pure speed, nobody can deal with him. His crash ? Roczen was...
No, he was very good, the only one to go below 53 sec. In pure speed, nobody can deal with him. His crash ? Roczen was very lucky yesterday, he could have also crash hard before the triple.

His pants, What do you want to do ? not easy to ride with a pants at the knees.


I don't know yet what he has at his shoulder, I hope it's not too serious. I m not worried for Eli if his shoulder is ok.

The section where he crash was tricky for a lot of riders.
Being very good between crashes and mistakes won't get it done for the title
sickboy3636
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1/7/2018 3:57am
Gabriel J wrote:
I'm not in any place to criticize a rider with multiple championships under his belt, but like others have mentioned I've scratched my head with Eli's...
I'm not in any place to criticize a rider with multiple championships under his belt, but like others have mentioned I've scratched my head with Eli's lack of urgency to get back going when he has tipped over, gone down in a soft crash etc.
Maybe he is actually cool and calm when something goes sideways and rather than freaking out he takes the time to get everything going again, confusing us viewers with his seemingly careless approach. I don't think that he's packing up and quitting when an obstacle arises, it's just that he deals with it different than other racers.

I think plenty of riders are like him, the spotlight isn't on them when things go wrong because they don't have a high profile. Not everyone would do the suicide-shifter method like Dungey if their bike is damaged, most would slow their pace or pull off the track knowing that it could be too dangerous to continue.

Safety is another huge factor, I realize having your pants busted open might not seem like a good reason to pull off a track, but I wouldn't be trying to bang out a triple jump in traffic and have my pants fall down and cause me to have a serious crash during the first race of the year. It's not as though it was an untucked jersey like Anderson, or even the plumbers crack we've seen on occasion when the rider seems a bit too skinny for the pants to stay up when they are buckled.
It’s just become so frequent. I mean he’s notorious for it by now. And here we are again having the same conversation 1 race into 2018.
eb313
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1/7/2018 5:40am
Totally agree with this, it’s mental toughness and grit that he lacks. But I’m gonna go on a limb and say, I really don’t think this...
Totally agree with this, it’s mental toughness and grit that he lacks. But I’m gonna go on a limb and say, I really don’t think this is something you can teach. Maybe from a very young age, but I really believe you either have that killer instinct or you don’t. I’ve seen enough of Eli’s endeavors that I don’t know he can ever change it. I mean, as far as his career it’s either now or never and I just think there’s too many guys like Roczen who will LITERALLY give a limb to win. I’ve never really been a huge Roczen fan just cause some of the issues him and his dad have had with teams in the past, but I gotta say, after watching this guy refuse to quit and literally go in 11 months from a guy possibly facing life with 1 arm to a guy with a legit shot at the title, I have nothing but respect. And again, I just think the fields too thick for Eli to ever dominate in the way that we alllll thought he would. And I agree about the naysayers, but guys that TRULY believe in themselves are undeterred by external doubt....in fact for guys with a motor like that, it’s frickin coal for the fire.
Did you miss the part where he hurt himself in the crash.. or..?
It’s always something, and there’s an excuse everytime he pulls off whether it’s bent rotors, sticky masters, faulty pant buckles, bumping his head or other boo...
It’s always something, and there’s an excuse everytime he pulls off whether it’s bent rotors, sticky masters, faulty pant buckles, bumping his head or other boo boos. The point is it’s a common thread that he’s just quit after other tip overs, set on his bike for 10 seconds without even starting it while the points lead drifted out of reach and everyone from Ralph and Jeff down were scratching their heads. So if I missed soemthing during this race, I’d say you’ve missed the last 3-4 years of watching Eli race. I like Eli, in fact I grew up in CO where’s he’s a local legend so I’ve always pulled for the guy. But there comes a point where it’s not the constant situations and bad luck, it’s you.
I always find it amusing when people say things like "there’s an excuse every time he pulls off whether it’s bent rotors, sticky masters, faulty pant buckles, bumping his head or other boo boos".

No one can argue with his lack of consistency in the personal performance department but to say things like bent rotors and bad master cylinders are excuses......completely ignorant. It's is kinda crazy though, he seems to have a cloud over his head at times.

And for the record, last night's race was no one's fault but his own. He went down with the lead, the pant issue wasn't directly his fault but if he hadn't crashed they may not have come undone........or was that WHY he crashed? Had they come undone already? We'll find out this week and he'll line up next week and spin some laps.......
Acidreamer
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1/7/2018 5:42am
Not everyone can be a villopoto
philG
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1/7/2018 5:55am
WCRider wrote:
No, he was very good, the only one to go below 53 sec. In pure speed, nobody can deal with him. His crash ? Roczen was...
No, he was very good, the only one to go below 53 sec. In pure speed, nobody can deal with him. His crash ? Roczen was very lucky yesterday, he could have also crash hard before the triple.

His pants, What do you want to do ? not easy to ride with a pants at the knees.


I don't know yet what he has at his shoulder, I hope it's not too serious. I m not worried for Eli if his shoulder is ok.

The section where he crash was tricky for a lot of riders.
I said watching practice , that Tomac looked 'edgy'.. solid over the jumps and stuff , but just a bit ragged in the turns and on the brakes into the flat corners. I felt he would have a tip off like Webb in the heat race, or push the front in one of the hairpins.

Meanwhile im watching Kenny , thinking he looks 'off', riding well with himself and just trying to bring himself back into the game... at that point he was like 0.4 off Tomac.

Tbteam
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1/7/2018 6:10am
Magoo would have ripped his pants off and finished 3rd.

Then, when his doctor said he needed shoulder surgery he would have flipped him off and won the title.
Solli2208
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1/7/2018 6:17am
WCRider wrote:
No, he was very good, the only one to go below 53 sec. In pure speed, nobody can deal with him. His crash ? Roczen was...
No, he was very good, the only one to go below 53 sec. In pure speed, nobody can deal with him. His crash ? Roczen was very lucky yesterday, he could have also crash hard before the triple.

His pants, What do you want to do ? not easy to ride with a pants at the knees.


I don't know yet what he has at his shoulder, I hope it's not too serious. I m not worried for Eli if his shoulder is ok.

The section where he crash was tricky for a lot of riders.
That's what i call a Butthurt Tomac Fan. Trying to defend Eli with everything instead of admitting that he is riding over his Head? Fastest Laptime inside a Race proves nothing, cartainly not if he can't hold up the Speed without crashing. Dungey is the Best proof for that. It seems like Tomac crashes frequently when he try's to be the fastest man on the Planet. At least, that's what the past shows me.
sickboy3636
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1/7/2018 6:28am
eb313 wrote:
I always find it amusing when people say things like "there’s an excuse every time he pulls off whether it’s bent rotors, sticky masters, faulty pant...
I always find it amusing when people say things like "there’s an excuse every time he pulls off whether it’s bent rotors, sticky masters, faulty pant buckles, bumping his head or other boo boos".

No one can argue with his lack of consistency in the personal performance department but to say things like bent rotors and bad master cylinders are excuses......completely ignorant. It's is kinda crazy though, he seems to have a cloud over his head at times.

And for the record, last night's race was no one's fault but his own. He went down with the lead, the pant issue wasn't directly his fault but if he hadn't crashed they may not have come undone........or was that WHY he crashed? Had they come undone already? We'll find out this week and he'll line up next week and spin some laps.......
I’m just trying to say that you make your own luck......just like today, don’t put yourself in a bad position and most these things don’t happen. Ask Dungey. I know some can’t be avoided, but just like the rotor, it was a contact issue. Or even thunder valley, he was a 1 and a half out front and pushing like hell around that corner when he high sided. You just got minimize risk, and the greats are able to find that balance instead of just being fast. Ya dig
Motofinne
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1/7/2018 6:30am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2018 6:37am
The hardcore Tomac fans are the worst, even worse than the hardcore JS7 fans.
WCRider
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1/7/2018 6:32am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2018 6:36am
philG wrote:
I said watching practice , that Tomac looked 'edgy'.. solid over the jumps and stuff , but just a bit ragged in the turns and on...
I said watching practice , that Tomac looked 'edgy'.. solid over the jumps and stuff , but just a bit ragged in the turns and on the brakes into the flat corners. I felt he would have a tip off like Webb in the heat race, or push the front in one of the hairpins.

Meanwhile im watching Kenny , thinking he looks 'off', riding well with himself and just trying to bring himself back into the game... at that point he was like 0.4 off Tomac.

I told a friend that he wouldn't win because he would be nervous. Kenny made him even more nervous after the qualifcations.




TDeath21
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1/7/2018 6:33am
He is a worse version of James Stewart. Not strong mentally. Not a smart racer. Rarely will be able to give a clutch performance to bring home a championship. Will miss lots of races due to injury. But his natural talent will and has gotten Tomac to the top of the MX world, which is incredible that that’s enough to overcome his other weaknesses.
eb313
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1/7/2018 6:46am
I’m just trying to say that you make your own luck......just like today, don’t put yourself in a bad position and most these things don’t happen...
I’m just trying to say that you make your own luck......just like today, don’t put yourself in a bad position and most these things don’t happen. Ask Dungey. I know some can’t be avoided, but just like the rotor, it was a contact issue. Or even thunder valley, he was a 1 and a half out front and pushing like hell around that corner when he high sided. You just got minimize risk, and the greats are able to find that balance instead of just being fast. Ya dig
Now I agree with that. My point, however, was just that too much blame for ET3's mechanical issues has been put on him, when many have been out of his control. ET3's crash this time is a prime example of him making his own bad luck but he's also had some issues that are out of his control. He just seems to be stellar at times and like he can't figure it out.
1/7/2018 6:49am
As much as riders don't want to win by others crashing out, now is the time for them to get in his
head to keep him off his top game. KR94 needs to send him an insta photo waving him over with
his little baby arm. "come on back, I'll handicap you one good arm" Laughing
TM
sickboy3636
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1/7/2018 6:51am
Motofinne wrote:
The hardcore Tomac fans are the worst, even worse than the hardcore JS7 fans.
Haha.....dude I really gotta agree. I always considered myself a Tomac fan till recently I’ve really started admitting some things I’ve seen and people are almost cultish. Think they should go for an all move south of salt lake and give their new religion some legitimacy.
sickboy3636
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1/7/2018 7:04am
eb313 wrote:
Now I agree with that. My point, however, was just that too much blame for ET3's mechanical issues has been put on him, when many have...
Now I agree with that. My point, however, was just that too much blame for ET3's mechanical issues has been put on him, when many have been out of his control. ET3's crash this time is a prime example of him making his own bad luck but he's also had some issues that are out of his control. He just seems to be stellar at times and like he can't figure it out.
I agree. The problem is those inevitable mechanical issues only glare if they’re couple with numerous other issues. Take Dungey for example. No thought of his as a guy with bad luck. He had a shifter bend/break where was forced to HAND SHIFT through the main, a air shock just lose pressure and drop at the gate. His team couldn’t get his bik started for the main. They finally got it started when the race was a lap in. Ran outta gas and had to fill up during the main. Had the vapor lock issue with the Kim. HOWEVER, Dunge knew that his championship were won on those days. Came and starting a lap late and I believe podiumed, sand with the hand shift issue. I mean he just overcame all those issues by refusing to quick. Like you’re saying, Tomac looks stellar at times. But it’s almost like if he can’t beat the field by 1-2 minutes he doesn’t even wanna be out there. I’ve never seen someone who just looks so indifferent. I mean dunge wasn’t a risk taker but would put himself in harms way when needed. ET has just been so good, come from such a winning pedigree that he never had to fight his way out of a corner. It can put you in a great position but be a curse too. No one wanted to sign Dunge, hell he wasn’t even winning in the amateurs. Buuuut that’s what mde him great in the end. I like Tomac, but I can comfortably say he’ll never be thought of as a great racer. He’s solidified his legacy at this point by mental errors at critical times and head scratching moved like just leaving the track today. RC would never have done that.....you get points, and as close as ET’s championship loss was last year, if he didn’t figure it out by now.....he’s never gonna get it.
pilotdude
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1/7/2018 7:07am
17-0 bro...oh wait, never mind.
sickboy3636
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1/7/2018 7:29am
pilotdude wrote:
17-0 bro...oh wait, never mind.
The Tomac fan club believes he was just resting for his 16 straight run he’s fixing to lay down.
gabrielito
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1/7/2018 7:33am
Rooster wrote:
Maybe he just rung his bell and went a little wacky before he knew he was too screwed up to finish the race. I never saw...
Maybe he just rung his bell and went a little wacky before he knew he was too screwed up to finish the race.

I never saw any after race interviews or anything, but it was a strange way for him to finish the night for sure. I hope he's OK. He was hauling before the crash.
That's how I saw it. He looked very disoriented to me.
FIREfish148
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1/7/2018 7:41am
Alright, who the hell here watches all of the racing sports and the competitors well enough to make a hypothesis on the og posters blanket statement/question?

Maybe he just didn't want to show his ass to 60k people? Maybe he's "ass shy"? Maybe he really did bust his shoulder up? He had both of them rebuilt not long ago didn't he? That was a nasty digger he took. One of those low speed ones that hurt and and ring your bell and tweak your bars and just piss you off.
mx317
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1/7/2018 7:59am
Was it just me, or did you see how he was shaking when he was trying to fasten his pants?

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