Stem Cells

I'll be following this post... I had L1-L3 fused about 4 months ago now. Hopefully disc degeneration isn't something I'll have to deal with in the future also..

Oh wow! That is good to know... which vertebraes did you have fused?

My father in law was part of a stem cell study through Shands in Gainesville for heart failure. This was close to 10 years ago. Had it not been done, we are convinced he would be gone by now. It wasn't a perfect fix as he still has problems, but he is still with is and lives a normal life.

Awesome

Perhaps our stem cell scientist, Crisp BRAAAP!, will chime in. He always has interesting and informative takes. Seriously.

As someone who suffered a SCI in a moto accident I find the whole stem cells thing fascinating. It gives me hope that I'll eventually be able to walk again.

I've read stories about science growing kidneys, heart's, etc. They're nowhere near the point of being used in human's but just the thought that one day patient's might not have to wait for an organ donor is awesome. No fear of the body rejecting it is great.

Sadly you'll more than likely have to be rich in order to get those procedures done.

This thread kicks ass , and I love reading about this stuff! Good luck Rick , and keep us posted.

Thanks, Kzizok: I enjoy your posts, too, moto and medical.

Well, I am a partisan in this whole "stem cell" thing, so take what I say with a grain of salt. There are two kinds of "stem cells", and they can largely be thought of as "embryonic" (aka, pluripotent) or "adult" (aka, multipotent, from fat, bone marrow). I am a pluripotent proponent - these cells can still become any type in the human body. Fat and bone marrow cells can become many cell types but not most of the ones you'd need to fix (most) damaged tissue. Unless you damaged fat or bone marrow .

But, just because they don't become the "right" cells doesn't mean they're useless. There is evidence that they can modulate the immune response which can be responsible for lots of the damage after injury. But, they don't "engraft", meaning they die after you put them in so the repair is likely limited.

The pluripotent people are still trying to get more applications to the clinic: it's harder to do what we do, because it isn't just injecting your butt fat back into the injury site. We have to "teach" the pluripotent stem cells how to become the right cell type, which ain't easy. We also have to be sure that the cells won't form a tumor, because when you think about it, that's what a embryo/fetus is- a rapidly growing, controlled tumor. We have to learn to exert the same control in a dish.

We're coming...there is the trial from Asterias that has shown great promise in spinal cord injuries, although it's still early days for sure. There are human trials with embryonic stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes (heart failure), many for eye diseases/blindness, and we (and others) are hoping to initiate trials for Parkinson's disease by this upcoming summer. We believe these cells will have a much greater capacity to heal, but it's up to us to prove that. Time will tell.

Please read and think about this if you're considering any of these treatments. I get very nervous reading about some of my moto brothers going to China for treatment. That doesn't mean there aren't good doctors there, but the level of oversight isn't the same. Honestly, we have many doctors doing unspeakable things (IMO) here in the US. The pluripotent groups are having to do "real" trials as we all should. This safeguards patients to make sure no one does something dangerous, and it makes us have to show that it works. Many of the bone/fat people are charging for therapies, making bold claims, and sometimes having very bad outcomes. You don't want a tumor from your treatment. Please read up and let the buyer beware: that includes "us," by the way. These are all experimental therapies and, as such, have risk associated with them.

Honestly, I've been in labs since 1990 and I can't remember a time when things were this exciting. I am old, crusty and cynical, but even I am excited by the gains we've been making as a field. It's been gratifying to follow the gene therapy people curing diseases. They are ahead of us since the field is older, but they are really starting to change the game. We think we're hot on their heels, and I have great hope that medicine is about to majorly change. Keep in mind, though, that "right around the corner" in science/medicine means in the next decade or so, maybe longer. This is hard, slow, expensive work, and the government has been busy killing funding and sending many great scientists scrambling for new jobs. There are 50 yo scientists who have had to close their lab and now are baristas. Seriously. Nevertheless, there is reason for great optimism, even for a pessimist like me.

My father had the same thing after 2 double bypasses and nine stints. Not been back on the table since.

Yeah, sorry, I read that wrong. Many people do go abroad and throw the dice. Mayo is legit, and I've seen many of those guys (Mayo mesenchymal stem cell groups) speak at conferences. They're doing it the right way, and it appears your Dr. is too. Were you part of a clinical trial?

I don't like that they say they are "a decade away" from anything. You aren't pregnant until you're pregnant: science comes in fits and bursts. We can't say with any certainty what will happen next year, never mind a decade. I hate scientists who do this, because people can be (rightly) upset if it doesn't happen. It undermines confidence in what we do. It doesn't mean it won't happen. But they can't know it will, so don't say it.

But, yes, this guy and most anyone at Mayo has an impressive resume. You're lucky to be near Mayo. Sorry you have to know about this stuff, and best of luck to you in regaining your health. Keep us updated!

I had the left side of my L4-5 S1 trimmed up last year after having excruciating sciatica pain for 3 months with absolutely no relief.. Going in again at the end of December for some more work on the right side of my spine. I'm kinda pissed they didn't do it all in 1 surgery, but why do it all in 1 when you can get paid for 2. Seeing this thread has me researching stem cells because with all the trimming, I won't have much Disc left in some areas. I can already feel bone on bone when landing from jumps.
Thanks for posting this. Looking forward to reading through the links and the other comments.

“Many clinics offering stem cell treatments make claims that are not supported by a current understanding of science
Stem cells have tremendous promise to help us understand and treat a range of diseases, injuries and other health-related conditions. Their potential is evident in the use of blood stem cells to treat diseases of the blood, a therapy that has saved the lives of thousands of children with leukemia; and can be seen in the use of stem cells for tissue grafts to treat diseases or injury to the bone, skin and surface of the eye. Important clinical trials involving stem cells are underway for many other conditions and researchers continue to explore new avenues using stem cells in medicine.
There is still a lot to learn about stem cells, however, and their current applications as treatments are sometimes exaggerated by the media and other parties who do not fully understand the science and current limitations, and also by “clinics” looking to capitalize on the hype by selling treatments to chronically ill or seriously injured patients. The information on this page is intended to help you understand both the potential and the limitations of stem cells at this point in time, and to help you spot some of the misinformation that is widely circulated by clinics offering unproven treatments.
It is important to discuss these Nine Things to Know and any research or information you gather with your primary care physician and other trusted members of your healthcare team in deciding what is right for you.
Currently, very few stem cell treatments have been proven safe and effective
There is something to lose when you try an unproven treatment
Different types of stem cells serve different purposes in the body
The same stem cell treatment is unlikely to work for different diseases or conditions
The science behind a disease should match the science behind the treatment
Cells from your own body are not automatically safe when used in treatments
Patient testimonials and other marketing provided by clinics may be misleading
An experimental treatment offered for sale is not the same as a clinical trial
The process by which science becomes medicine is designed to minimize harm and maximize effectiveness
Stem cell researchers are making great advances in understanding normal development, figuring out what goes wrong in disease and developing and testing potential treatments to help patients. They still have much to learn, however, about how stem cells work in the body and their capacity for healing. Safe and effective treatments for most diseases, conditions and injuries are in the future”

I was told to get stem cell injections into my knee. 3 treatments at 700CAD a pop. Not all things are covered for free here haha. I didnt do them yet but I have been thinking about it. I know the rich people are flying all over the world getting em done. So must be good i guess

They are flying “all over the world” to places that allow it without regards to safety or efficacy. Just because a place allows it, and one has the money to do it does not mean it is safe, or that it works (usually quite the opposite).

Not only that, but injecting knees with stem cells in Canada has not been approved. http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/health/stem-cell-private-clinic-health-cana…