Going from yz125 to sx125 (2017)?

Skerby
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8/20/2017 7:32pm
Does ktm still make a 150sx? I like the yz a lot, but I would switch for the 150 option.
BobPA
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8/20/2017 7:42pm
Skerby wrote:
Does ktm still make a 150sx? I like the yz a lot, but I would switch for the 150 option.
Yeah, they are pretty much the cats meow.
tempura
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8/20/2017 8:15pm
Didn't like my YZ smoker. Felt way too stiff, and struggled with it, complete lack of confidence in corners. The front end felt light as well. I just couldn't get that thing right for me. KYB SSS is nice, but over hyped. I prefer the Showa version to be honest.
If I were choosing between a YZ125 or KTM125, I'd take the KTM without hesitation.
kzizok
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8/20/2017 8:22pm
SSS forks are good, but no where near the lemming fodder that some will have you believe.

The Shop

steed 2.0
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8/20/2017 8:40pm
DrSweden wrote:
Ha, I have an yz250 as well, way to much power for me, a 300!?!!? :laugh: Those Italians, then Germans and now Austrians sort of took...
Ha, I have an yz250 as well, way to much power for me, a 300!?!!? Laughing

Those Italians, then Germans and now Austrians sort of took the spirit out of the former Swedish brand...
Don't be too impressed with the numbers, price tag Laughing and CC, Difference in engine specifications and with catalyst the engine is even more mellow not so nervous as a MX Bike power is more lineair... Listen to the Engine Smile


Make a test ride and judge for yourself Wink
steed 2.0
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8/20/2017 8:42pm
kott0n wrote:
It's owned by an Austrian company and they even killed the gun sights on the logo.
Duh... Laughing Wink
Hcallz5
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8/20/2017 9:28pm
Get a 150
DrSweden
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8/21/2017 11:23am
To put this further in perspective for you before I answer, I am a second generation Yamaha fanatic. My dad raced Yamahas and I was brought...
To put this further in perspective for you before I answer, I am a second generation Yamaha fanatic. My dad raced Yamahas and I was brought up on Yamaha (and two Hondas). I have owned at least a dozen Yamahas. I type this sitting here having breakfast wearing a Yamaha crew jacket and throwback cap.

I had one KTM before this '17, a previous-gen 250SX with the 4CS. I cannot put into words how much I hated that bike. So I am no fanboy of KTM.

I am also mid 6ft 5ish, down to ~92kg (lean). 35B speed. I ride 2-3 x 30-35m motos when I go to the track. I also rode street/track bikes for years, and believe I have very good "feel" for a bike.

Jumping

The Yamaha feels stable, small and agile, like a BMX bike. The KTM feels the same, but the steering feels slightly lighter, and it feels 5kg lighter in the air. Either bike can be scrubbed and whipped to insane degrees.

Yesterday on the KTM I overjumped a table flat out in 6th gear. I thought I was in 5th late in my last moto and I didn't scrub enough and landed about 5-6 bike lengths to flat. I had enough time in the air to think 'I am about to break my wrists'. The suspension soaked it up easily and I kept on with my moto. The Yamaha "magic" SSS would have punished that mistake with at least jarred wrists, if not worse.

Cornering

The YZ loves to rail a corner, and I can pass plenty of 250s and 450s on this bike, too. Either bike corners almost effortlessly. You know 125s, you have one.

The cornering technique is different on the two bikes, but it also depends to a degree on the surface. On a firm surface or skatey hardpack for example, I trail a lot of front brake on the YZ, right into the apex. The Yamaha has a very light feeling front end that is prone to knife or tuck if weight is not kept on the front wheel.

The front end feel of the KTM is far more planted, more like a 250 four stroke. I can come in very hot to sweepers or tighter flat turns and two wheel drift in, use minimal front brake, then steer out using the throttle. Sitting or standing, it doesn't matter. The YZ would knife the front end standing, 9 times out of 10.

Engine

No contest. The KTM has more power and a more aggressive, albeit narrower, powerband. The YZ feels easier to ride, but it is not faster. My YZ has VHM head, porting, VForce, pipe and silencer, etc etc. All the usual tricks for a race motor. I will take the KTM to get a Two Stroke Performance custom 150 kit done when it needs its 3rd or 4th top end. At that time, I will probably swap out the YZ for another new 125SX.

Ergos

Perfectly comfortable from the first ride. The SX feels roomier, the bar bend is perfect, the ODI lock on grips a revelation. Standing, the side plates keep your legs locked in place, whereas the YZ you really have to concentrate on pinching with your calves to prevent sliding back at full gas corner exits. Everything you touch on the KTM feels quality.

Suspension

I have probably covered this above, but I would add that, especially as a heavier 125 rider, the ability to adjust air "spring" rates from track to track, and morning to afternoon conditions is a great, great thing.

Negatives

About half of the stock decals started peeling back at the edges before I even rode it. KTM agreed to replaced these under warranty with no fuss. The front brake and clutch reservoirs had a small amount of fluid pooled on the little bottom groove on them before the first ride. Almost like there was a little bit of an overflow before the caps were screwed on, and it had trickled down to the lowest place on the reservoir and just sat there. Nothing noticeable since I have ridden it.

Typing this quickly so I may have been unclear/missed something you asked. Anything else you want to know, please feel free to ask.
What a great write-up, I'm sure this please others as well. I'm sold. Thank you (or not, since this will cost me) Smile
DrSweden
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8/21/2017 11:45am
brocsdad wrote:
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had...
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had terrible headshake. I even bought a steering stabilizer and it was still really bad. I spoke to several suspension shops and they said the only fix was A-kit suspension or buy a YZ. I sold the KTM and bought s new YZ. Terry Varner built the YZ motor and it was the best decision ever! My son loves the YZ and hp is not an issue.
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. Smile Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm about 75 kg vet b.
seth505
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8/21/2017 11:48am
brocsdad wrote:
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had...
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had terrible headshake. I even bought a steering stabilizer and it was still really bad. I spoke to several suspension shops and they said the only fix was A-kit suspension or buy a YZ. I sold the KTM and bought s new YZ. Terry Varner built the YZ motor and it was the best decision ever! My son loves the YZ and hp is not an issue.
DrSweden wrote:
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. :) Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm...
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. Smile Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm about 75 kg vet b.
Not to be a dick, but that post is just crazy talk. I'd disregard it.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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8/21/2017 12:00pm
brocsdad wrote:
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had...
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had terrible headshake. I even bought a steering stabilizer and it was still really bad. I spoke to several suspension shops and they said the only fix was A-kit suspension or buy a YZ. I sold the KTM and bought s new YZ. Terry Varner built the YZ motor and it was the best decision ever! My son loves the YZ and hp is not an issue.
DrSweden wrote:
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. :) Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm...
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. Smile Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm about 75 kg vet b.
seth505 wrote:
Not to be a dick, but that post is just crazy talk. I'd disregard it.
Not trying to gang up on you BDad... But I disagree also, the 4CS forks aren't great but they aren't terrible after set up correct. But then again, I also bought cone valve forks.

I think the moral of this thread is that everyone will have a different opinion, all you can do is take this info with a grain of salt and make your own choice. Everyone has a different feel for what they are looking for in a bike.
1
305FC250
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8/21/2017 1:43pm
brocsdad wrote:
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had...
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had terrible headshake. I even bought a steering stabilizer and it was still really bad. I spoke to several suspension shops and they said the only fix was A-kit suspension or buy a YZ. I sold the KTM and bought s new YZ. Terry Varner built the YZ motor and it was the best decision ever! My son loves the YZ and hp is not an issue.
DrSweden wrote:
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. :) Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm...
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. Smile Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm about 75 kg vet b.
seth505 wrote:
Not to be a dick, but that post is just crazy talk. I'd disregard it.
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And this is the first I've heard of severe headshake problems. If it was a major issue the whole MX world would be aware by now. DrSweden don't let him scare you. It's one complainer (that sounds heavily exaggerated) vs tons of positive feedback. You will be happy with the KTM.
DrSweden
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8/21/2017 1:50pm
305FC250 wrote:
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And...
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And this is the first I've heard of severe headshake problems. If it was a major issue the whole MX world would be aware by now. DrSweden don't let him scare you. It's one complainer (that sounds heavily exaggerated) vs tons of positive feedback. You will be happy with the KTM.
Tnx, I think I have my mind set to the sx anyway. Cool
steed 2.0
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8/21/2017 2:23pm
DrSweden wrote:
Tnx, I think I have my mind set to the sx anyway. Cool
At Least We Tried... Smile

8/21/2017 3:42pm
To put this further in perspective for you before I answer, I am a second generation Yamaha fanatic. My dad raced Yamahas and I was brought...
To put this further in perspective for you before I answer, I am a second generation Yamaha fanatic. My dad raced Yamahas and I was brought up on Yamaha (and two Hondas). I have owned at least a dozen Yamahas. I type this sitting here having breakfast wearing a Yamaha crew jacket and throwback cap.

I had one KTM before this '17, a previous-gen 250SX with the 4CS. I cannot put into words how much I hated that bike. So I am no fanboy of KTM.

I am also mid 6ft 5ish, down to ~92kg (lean). 35B speed. I ride 2-3 x 30-35m motos when I go to the track. I also rode street/track bikes for years, and believe I have very good "feel" for a bike.

Jumping

The Yamaha feels stable, small and agile, like a BMX bike. The KTM feels the same, but the steering feels slightly lighter, and it feels 5kg lighter in the air. Either bike can be scrubbed and whipped to insane degrees.

Yesterday on the KTM I overjumped a table flat out in 6th gear. I thought I was in 5th late in my last moto and I didn't scrub enough and landed about 5-6 bike lengths to flat. I had enough time in the air to think 'I am about to break my wrists'. The suspension soaked it up easily and I kept on with my moto. The Yamaha "magic" SSS would have punished that mistake with at least jarred wrists, if not worse.

Cornering

The YZ loves to rail a corner, and I can pass plenty of 250s and 450s on this bike, too. Either bike corners almost effortlessly. You know 125s, you have one.

The cornering technique is different on the two bikes, but it also depends to a degree on the surface. On a firm surface or skatey hardpack for example, I trail a lot of front brake on the YZ, right into the apex. The Yamaha has a very light feeling front end that is prone to knife or tuck if weight is not kept on the front wheel.

The front end feel of the KTM is far more planted, more like a 250 four stroke. I can come in very hot to sweepers or tighter flat turns and two wheel drift in, use minimal front brake, then steer out using the throttle. Sitting or standing, it doesn't matter. The YZ would knife the front end standing, 9 times out of 10.

Engine

No contest. The KTM has more power and a more aggressive, albeit narrower, powerband. The YZ feels easier to ride, but it is not faster. My YZ has VHM head, porting, VForce, pipe and silencer, etc etc. All the usual tricks for a race motor. I will take the KTM to get a Two Stroke Performance custom 150 kit done when it needs its 3rd or 4th top end. At that time, I will probably swap out the YZ for another new 125SX.

Ergos

Perfectly comfortable from the first ride. The SX feels roomier, the bar bend is perfect, the ODI lock on grips a revelation. Standing, the side plates keep your legs locked in place, whereas the YZ you really have to concentrate on pinching with your calves to prevent sliding back at full gas corner exits. Everything you touch on the KTM feels quality.

Suspension

I have probably covered this above, but I would add that, especially as a heavier 125 rider, the ability to adjust air "spring" rates from track to track, and morning to afternoon conditions is a great, great thing.

Negatives

About half of the stock decals started peeling back at the edges before I even rode it. KTM agreed to replaced these under warranty with no fuss. The front brake and clutch reservoirs had a small amount of fluid pooled on the little bottom groove on them before the first ride. Almost like there was a little bit of an overflow before the caps were screwed on, and it had trickled down to the lowest place on the reservoir and just sat there. Nothing noticeable since I have ridden it.

Typing this quickly so I may have been unclear/missed something you asked. Anything else you want to know, please feel free to ask.
DrSweden wrote:
What a great write-up, I'm sure this please others as well. I'm sold. Thank you (or not, since this will cost me) Smile
Haha! No problem. Depending on how quickly you adapt on a new bike, it will take you half an hour or so to get used to the new "feel". You will have to get used to the hydraulic clutch, for example. The first two gentle load ten minute heat cycles I put on it around the paddock I thought 'oh no, I hope I know what I have done'. But once you get your mind right, there is no going back.

Just on the headshake thing, I am not going to jump on anyone on this board. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone has had their own experience. And also, what a bike does with a 115 pound rider on it is going to be different to what it does with a 200lb rider onboard. I will say that I have had my fair share of headshake on the YZ, and once so far on the SX. On the YZ it tends to be on fast straights as I accelerate through 3rd into 4th and the front is very light. On the SX, it was heading into braking bumps, downhill, from a tapped out in 6th gear back straight. So IMHO, the SX was caused by me carrying too much speed into a section that had gotten super chopped out, whereas the YZ was due to accelerating hard and perhaps I was too far back on the seat, but it didn't wheelie, it just bucked. To put it into perspective, though, it's a 125 and I am a grown adult. Headshake on a 125 is almost funny, unlike say a 450, on which it feels positively "deathly".

Another thought on the AER48 forks

I think some of the people that have disliked the AER forks may have had them set up too firm on the air spring - i.e. too much air pressure in the chamber. I made the same mistake my first moto. Then I changed it for the second moto and saw the light. I actually ended up with a setting which would theoretically be one spring rate too soft for me, but I adjusted the clickers slightly (4 clicks firmer) and it was perfect (for that track, on that day). IMHO, these forks are very supple and extremely difficult to bottom. The exact opposite of the 4CS.

Also, thinking further about the KYB SSS - I think these forks are superb on the YZF range (I have owned several YZ450Fs with these), but I cannot brag about these forks on a 125. Yes, they are good. Maybe even almost great. But they are not the quasi-factory-chest-of-gold that people like to make out.

brocsdad
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8/21/2017 7:00pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2017 7:01pm
brocsdad wrote:
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had...
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had terrible headshake. I even bought a steering stabilizer and it was still really bad. I spoke to several suspension shops and they said the only fix was A-kit suspension or buy a YZ. I sold the KTM and bought s new YZ. Terry Varner built the YZ motor and it was the best decision ever! My son loves the YZ and hp is not an issue.
DrSweden wrote:
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. :) Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm...
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. Smile Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm about 75 kg vet b.
seth505 wrote:
Not to be a dick, but that post is just crazy talk. I'd disregard it.
I'm telling you what I experienced and several of our friends experienced. The 4CS forks were just plain horrible! Just google it and read the reviews.

The air forks on the 17 are better but the majority of people are still buying cone forks or doing the spring conversions.

My friend just bought his son a new KTM 125 and sent it to Earl Shuler for valving etc. I'm anxious to see how it works. I know Earl does suspension for a lot of the MXA guys.

Bottom line is if you buy the KTM you need to find a good suspension tuner or choose the YZ and find a good motor builder. At the end of the day both 125s will mod out about the same but the KTM is pushed farther to its potential from the factory. The KTM has a longer but slower revving type of power but it is faster stock. The YZ is a little easier to ride but requires you to shift more often. There were several riders winning area and regional qualifiers on the YZ's and Gavin Leachman set the fastest lap at Mammoth Mountain. Even though it's time for a new YZ the current bike is still competitive.

brocsdad
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8/21/2017 7:17pm
brocsdad wrote:
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had...
We had a new KTM 125 with a national level motor and it ran strong but even after spending almost $1k on the forks it had terrible headshake. I even bought a steering stabilizer and it was still really bad. I spoke to several suspension shops and they said the only fix was A-kit suspension or buy a YZ. I sold the KTM and bought s new YZ. Terry Varner built the YZ motor and it was the best decision ever! My son loves the YZ and hp is not an issue.
DrSweden wrote:
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. :) Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm...
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. Smile Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm about 75 kg vet b.
When my son was going into chop after a fast straight he would experience head shake. The bars would swap back and forth and it was only a matter of time before he had a bad crash. I was told it was because he was light and I'm sure that had something to do with it but I noticed the kids on the YZs could attack the corners harder with more stability.
brocsdad
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8/21/2017 7:42pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2017 7:44pm
DrSweden wrote:
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. :) Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm...
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. Smile Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm about 75 kg vet b.
seth505 wrote:
Not to be a dick, but that post is just crazy talk. I'd disregard it.
305FC250 wrote:
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And...
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And this is the first I've heard of severe headshake problems. If it was a major issue the whole MX world would be aware by now. DrSweden don't let him scare you. It's one complainer (that sounds heavily exaggerated) vs tons of positive feedback. You will be happy with the KTM.
What class do race? What is your weight and ability level? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about the 4CS forks.

Maybe you are not fast enough to expose the problems?

But forget about the suspension and let's talk about the other issues. Broke trannys in 125s and 250fs on 16s and 17s. People have and are still waiting for parts! How many trannys broke to still not have parts months later? It's also well known the swingarms have too much play which causes excess vibration. It's so bad on the 85 Nihilo makes a kit. You must shim the right side of the swingarm to take up slack and keep the chain and sprocket parallel. What about the powervalves terrible design? Ours stuck at 8hrs and my buddy's stuck at 10. F1 moto makes a new arm to help with this.

So it's not only the suspension I had issues with.
DrSweden
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8/22/2017 5:57am Edited Date/Time 8/22/2017 5:59am
seth505 wrote:
Not to be a dick, but that post is just crazy talk. I'd disregard it.
305FC250 wrote:
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And...
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And this is the first I've heard of severe headshake problems. If it was a major issue the whole MX world would be aware by now. DrSweden don't let him scare you. It's one complainer (that sounds heavily exaggerated) vs tons of positive feedback. You will be happy with the KTM.
brocsdad wrote:
What class do race? What is your weight and ability level? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about the 4CS forks. Maybe...
What class do race? What is your weight and ability level? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about the 4CS forks.

Maybe you are not fast enough to expose the problems?

But forget about the suspension and let's talk about the other issues. Broke trannys in 125s and 250fs on 16s and 17s. People have and are still waiting for parts! How many trannys broke to still not have parts months later? It's also well known the swingarms have too much play which causes excess vibration. It's so bad on the 85 Nihilo makes a kit. You must shim the right side of the swingarm to take up slack and keep the chain and sprocket parallel. What about the powervalves terrible design? Ours stuck at 8hrs and my buddy's stuck at 10. F1 moto makes a new arm to help with this.

So it's not only the suspension I had issues with.
You make good points. Do you think a majority of owners will have any of these issues with trannys, vibration and powervales? Or just a few that make a lot of noise because of frustration? I honestly assume I will not have any problem when I buy a new bike, if problem a minor, but not plenty. That would make me furious. I always buy clapped out bikes and restore them, and once that is done I go about at least 20-30 hours without any issues what so ever. In my whole life, I have newer had an issue with an engine (that worked when I bought the bike) ever, as in 20 bikes, while just three where new.

If I bought a KTM and the tranny goes after 10 hours, while it newer happened with my old clapped yz125 with 200 + hours I would make a flat tyre on Pit Beirers wheel chair. But I almost always use the clutch when I shift, maybe that is the reason why I newer damage a gear box.
seth505
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8/22/2017 7:50am
DrSweden wrote:
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. :) Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm...
Crap, but thx for your input, while it goes against my wishing. Smile Was this the 2016 or 2017? And what does headshake actually means? I'm about 75 kg vet b.
seth505 wrote:
Not to be a dick, but that post is just crazy talk. I'd disregard it.
brocsdad wrote:
I'm telling you what I experienced and several of our friends experienced. The 4CS forks were just plain horrible! Just google it and read the reviews...
I'm telling you what I experienced and several of our friends experienced. The 4CS forks were just plain horrible! Just google it and read the reviews.

The air forks on the 17 are better but the majority of people are still buying cone forks or doing the spring conversions.

My friend just bought his son a new KTM 125 and sent it to Earl Shuler for valving etc. I'm anxious to see how it works. I know Earl does suspension for a lot of the MXA guys.

Bottom line is if you buy the KTM you need to find a good suspension tuner or choose the YZ and find a good motor builder. At the end of the day both 125s will mod out about the same but the KTM is pushed farther to its potential from the factory. The KTM has a longer but slower revving type of power but it is faster stock. The YZ is a little easier to ride but requires you to shift more often. There were several riders winning area and regional qualifiers on the YZ's and Gavin Leachman set the fastest lap at Mammoth Mountain. Even though it's time for a new YZ the current bike is still competitive.

Right on, I thought we were just talking about the 17s (AER 48 air forks). The 4cs are definitely not ideal. I'm still not sure "most people" go with cone valve forks. How fast is your kid, close to qualify for a national speed?

Everyone is different but I can say this in regards to all brand new 250s I have bought:

YZ- good suspension stock, didn't need to respring, ended up with Factory Connection revalve to sort it out

2013 250sx- not as good suspension as the yz, had to respring and revalve so it didn't feal like the forks would kill me

2017 250sx- Very good stock suspension, running less air than stock and 1 lighter rear spring, no revalve. First suspension I've had stock that I feel very comfortable on without considering a revalve.
BobPA
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8/22/2017 11:52am Edited Date/Time 8/22/2017 11:54am
DrSweden wrote:
You make good points. Do you think a majority of owners will have any of these issues with trannys, vibration and powervales? Or just a few...
You make good points. Do you think a majority of owners will have any of these issues with trannys, vibration and powervales? Or just a few that make a lot of noise because of frustration? I honestly assume I will not have any problem when I buy a new bike, if problem a minor, but not plenty. That would make me furious. I always buy clapped out bikes and restore them, and once that is done I go about at least 20-30 hours without any issues what so ever. In my whole life, I have newer had an issue with an engine (that worked when I bought the bike) ever, as in 20 bikes, while just three where new.

If I bought a KTM and the tranny goes after 10 hours, while it newer happened with my old clapped yz125 with 200 + hours I would make a flat tyre on Pit Beirers wheel chair. But I almost always use the clutch when I shift, maybe that is the reason why I newer damage a gear box.
Do not let one obviously biased outlier ruin your thoughts on the bike. He is comparing the 125 and 85 swings arms for crying out loud. Look at the EMX 125 class and Europe and you tell me what is the better platform to start. This dude sounds like some mini dad who has never thrown a leg over a bike in 20 years.

29 of the 40 125's came from Austria in EMX last week, compared to 8 Yamahas


The claim of "most people run Cone Valves" is incredibly over exaggerated. I have seen one maybe two sets on KTM's around here...and they were on Vet riders rides. 6 or 7 of my friends are currently on AER's and love them. I would like a bit better action in the small chop....but they are the best forks I have ever ridden out of the box.
mha1406
Posts
47
Joined
4/28/2014
Location
USA
8/22/2017 1:37pm
Is there an actual question here?
are you a total buzzkill downer in real life too or just in every response you post on vital?
305FC250
Posts
427
Joined
9/18/2016
Location
Miami, FL, USA
8/22/2017 2:05pm
seth505 wrote:
Not to be a dick, but that post is just crazy talk. I'd disregard it.
305FC250 wrote:
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And...
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And this is the first I've heard of severe headshake problems. If it was a major issue the whole MX world would be aware by now. DrSweden don't let him scare you. It's one complainer (that sounds heavily exaggerated) vs tons of positive feedback. You will be happy with the KTM.
brocsdad wrote:
What class do race? What is your weight and ability level? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about the 4CS forks. Maybe...
What class do race? What is your weight and ability level? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about the 4CS forks.

Maybe you are not fast enough to expose the problems?

But forget about the suspension and let's talk about the other issues. Broke trannys in 125s and 250fs on 16s and 17s. People have and are still waiting for parts! How many trannys broke to still not have parts months later? It's also well known the swingarms have too much play which causes excess vibration. It's so bad on the 85 Nihilo makes a kit. You must shim the right side of the swingarm to take up slack and keep the chain and sprocket parallel. What about the powervalves terrible design? Ours stuck at 8hrs and my buddy's stuck at 10. F1 moto makes a new arm to help with this.

So it's not only the suspension I had issues with.
With all the feedback and reviews and videos and articles and suspension company advertisements (many of which have advertised fixes for the 4cs forks) and so on... Why is this the first I'm hearing about chronic unfixable headshake issues with the 4cs suspension? Why is it not a widespread problem if it's truly even a problem? Maybe it was something to do with your kids riding and not the forks? In stock form the forks are not good so don't misinterpret what I'm saying. But you sound like you're blowing it so far out of proportion it's laughable. You are clearly extremely biased against KTM which is why multiple other people here are also not taking you seriously.
tcallahan707
Posts
1824
Joined
4/5/2016
Location
Morrison, CO, USA
8/22/2017 4:01pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2017 4:04pm
Is there an actual question here?
mha1406 wrote:
are you a total buzzkill downer in real life too or just in every response you post on vital?
It's not the first time being logical, up front, and forcing people to think hasn't made me friends. Such is the consequence of keeping the standards high. I'll be okay though.

I bet you are one of those people who thinks there isn't an issue when riders say, " I can't thank Blah, Blah, Blah."
brocsdad
Posts
921
Joined
8/9/2010
Location
Thompsons Station, TN, USA
8/22/2017 5:48pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2017 5:48pm
305FC250 wrote:
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And...
I agree. Not sure if he's talking about 4cs or AER forks but I have both and neither have that issue and they're still stock.... And this is the first I've heard of severe headshake problems. If it was a major issue the whole MX world would be aware by now. DrSweden don't let him scare you. It's one complainer (that sounds heavily exaggerated) vs tons of positive feedback. You will be happy with the KTM.
brocsdad wrote:
What class do race? What is your weight and ability level? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about the 4CS forks. Maybe...
What class do race? What is your weight and ability level? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about the 4CS forks.

Maybe you are not fast enough to expose the problems?

But forget about the suspension and let's talk about the other issues. Broke trannys in 125s and 250fs on 16s and 17s. People have and are still waiting for parts! How many trannys broke to still not have parts months later? It's also well known the swingarms have too much play which causes excess vibration. It's so bad on the 85 Nihilo makes a kit. You must shim the right side of the swingarm to take up slack and keep the chain and sprocket parallel. What about the powervalves terrible design? Ours stuck at 8hrs and my buddy's stuck at 10. F1 moto makes a new arm to help with this.

So it's not only the suspension I had issues with.
305FC250 wrote:
With all the feedback and reviews and videos and articles and suspension company advertisements (many of which have advertised fixes for the 4cs forks) and so...
With all the feedback and reviews and videos and articles and suspension company advertisements (many of which have advertised fixes for the 4cs forks) and so on... Why is this the first I'm hearing about chronic unfixable headshake issues with the 4cs suspension? Why is it not a widespread problem if it's truly even a problem? Maybe it was something to do with your kids riding and not the forks? In stock form the forks are not good so don't misinterpret what I'm saying. But you sound like you're blowing it so far out of proportion it's laughable. You are clearly extremely biased against KTM which is why multiple other people here are also not taking you seriously.
Lighter riders moving from minis to 125s will experience headshake to a degree on any bike but what we experienced was worse than normal. It was only going into breaking bumps after accelerating down a fast straight. It happened when my kids friends rode the bike. If you have a heavier rider you probably will not notice the problem like we did.

Anyway I'm just telling you what I've personally seen with lighter riders on the KTM.

Honestly I probably would have considered keeping the KTM if it wasn't for my friends loosing their trannys and the powervalve issue. I did notice everyone has avoided commenting on those issues???

If we were buying 65s or 85s I would definitely get a KTM. The 125 just didn't work for us.

kott0n
Posts
673
Joined
10/4/2016
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
8/22/2017 5:51pm
kott0n wrote:
It's owned by an Austrian company and they even killed the gun sights on the logo.
BobPA wrote:
Look at the front fork guards....
So you are saying its way less prominent than in years past, I agree.

This is how you slowly marginalize and phase things out. Give it a few more refreshes and it will be off the fork guards also.
brocsdad
Posts
921
Joined
8/9/2010
Location
Thompsons Station, TN, USA
8/22/2017 5:53pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2017 5:55pm
DrSweden wrote:
You make good points. Do you think a majority of owners will have any of these issues with trannys, vibration and powervales? Or just a few...
You make good points. Do you think a majority of owners will have any of these issues with trannys, vibration and powervales? Or just a few that make a lot of noise because of frustration? I honestly assume I will not have any problem when I buy a new bike, if problem a minor, but not plenty. That would make me furious. I always buy clapped out bikes and restore them, and once that is done I go about at least 20-30 hours without any issues what so ever. In my whole life, I have newer had an issue with an engine (that worked when I bought the bike) ever, as in 20 bikes, while just three where new.

If I bought a KTM and the tranny goes after 10 hours, while it newer happened with my old clapped yz125 with 200 + hours I would make a flat tyre on Pit Beirers wheel chair. But I almost always use the clutch when I shift, maybe that is the reason why I newer damage a gear box.
BobPA wrote:
Do not let one obviously biased outlier ruin your thoughts on the bike. He is comparing the 125 and 85 swings arms for crying out loud...
Do not let one obviously biased outlier ruin your thoughts on the bike. He is comparing the 125 and 85 swings arms for crying out loud. Look at the EMX 125 class and Europe and you tell me what is the better platform to start. This dude sounds like some mini dad who has never thrown a leg over a bike in 20 years.

29 of the 40 125's came from Austria in EMX last week, compared to 8 Yamahas


The claim of "most people run Cone Valves" is incredibly over exaggerated. I have seen one maybe two sets on KTM's around here...and they were on Vet riders rides. 6 or 7 of my friends are currently on AER's and love them. I would like a bit better action in the small chop....but they are the best forks I have ever ridden out of the box.
I was a mechanic for a top 10 Sx and national level rider while I was in college. I raced for several years and I'm still heavily involved in the sport.

The shimming came info came from the factory KTM mechanics you jackass. It's a known problem! I even posted how to fix it on vital.

1
Markee
Posts
3669
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA, USA
8/22/2017 5:59pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2017 6:02pm
Is there an actual question here?
mha1406 wrote:
are you a total buzzkill downer in real life too or just in every response you post on vital?
It's not the first time being logical, up front, and forcing people to think hasn't made me friends. Such is the consequence of keeping the standards...
It's not the first time being logical, up front, and forcing people to think hasn't made me friends. Such is the consequence of keeping the standards high. I'll be okay though.

I bet you are one of those people who thinks there isn't an issue when riders say, " I can't thank Blah, Blah, Blah."
Don't change my friend.

To the OP. Get the ktm.

My last bike I had was a 250sx with KYB SSS 2013. I replaced it with a 17 with the new AER fork, was skeptical. Its a great fork, shock was great on both years. The new KTM chassis is really better. I couldn't imagine you would regret the purchase of a new KTM vs a 11 year old 125.
tcallahan707
Posts
1824
Joined
4/5/2016
Location
Morrison, CO, USA
8/22/2017 6:07pm
DrSweden wrote:
You make good points. Do you think a majority of owners will have any of these issues with trannys, vibration and powervales? Or just a few...
You make good points. Do you think a majority of owners will have any of these issues with trannys, vibration and powervales? Or just a few that make a lot of noise because of frustration? I honestly assume I will not have any problem when I buy a new bike, if problem a minor, but not plenty. That would make me furious. I always buy clapped out bikes and restore them, and once that is done I go about at least 20-30 hours without any issues what so ever. In my whole life, I have newer had an issue with an engine (that worked when I bought the bike) ever, as in 20 bikes, while just three where new.

If I bought a KTM and the tranny goes after 10 hours, while it newer happened with my old clapped yz125 with 200 + hours I would make a flat tyre on Pit Beirers wheel chair. But I almost always use the clutch when I shift, maybe that is the reason why I newer damage a gear box.
BobPA wrote:
Do not let one obviously biased outlier ruin your thoughts on the bike. He is comparing the 125 and 85 swings arms for crying out loud...
Do not let one obviously biased outlier ruin your thoughts on the bike. He is comparing the 125 and 85 swings arms for crying out loud. Look at the EMX 125 class and Europe and you tell me what is the better platform to start. This dude sounds like some mini dad who has never thrown a leg over a bike in 20 years.

29 of the 40 125's came from Austria in EMX last week, compared to 8 Yamahas


The claim of "most people run Cone Valves" is incredibly over exaggerated. I have seen one maybe two sets on KTM's around here...and they were on Vet riders rides. 6 or 7 of my friends are currently on AER's and love them. I would like a bit better action in the small chop....but they are the best forks I have ever ridden out of the box.
brocsdad wrote:
I was a mechanic for a top 10 Sx and national level rider while I was in college. I raced for several years and I'm still...
I was a mechanic for a top 10 Sx and national level rider while I was in college. I raced for several years and I'm still heavily involved in the sport.

The shimming came info came from the factory KTM mechanics you jackass. It's a known problem! I even posted how to fix it on vital.

I don't know many mini dads who would realize they needed to shim a swing arm. You certainly sounded more credible than that. Cripes Bob.
brocsdad
Posts
921
Joined
8/9/2010
Location
Thompsons Station, TN, USA
8/22/2017 6:16pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2017 6:24pm
mha1406 wrote:
are you a total buzzkill downer in real life too or just in every response you post on vital?
It's not the first time being logical, up front, and forcing people to think hasn't made me friends. Such is the consequence of keeping the standards...
It's not the first time being logical, up front, and forcing people to think hasn't made me friends. Such is the consequence of keeping the standards high. I'll be okay though.

I bet you are one of those people who thinks there isn't an issue when riders say, " I can't thank Blah, Blah, Blah."
Markee wrote:
Don't change my friend. To the OP. Get the ktm. My last bike I had was a 250sx with KYB SSS 2013. I replaced it with...
Don't change my friend.

To the OP. Get the ktm.

My last bike I had was a 250sx with KYB SSS 2013. I replaced it with a 17 with the new AER fork, was skeptical. Its a great fork, shock was great on both years. The new KTM chassis is really better. I couldn't imagine you would regret the purchase of a new KTM vs a 11 year old 125.
I didn't want to! I was sold on the fact the KTM was better. But in the end the YZ worked out better for us. Lap times and the smile on my kids face don't lie. He likes the YZ better.

Though if money was no object I would buy a few TM 125s. I rode a bone stock one and was really impressed. Though you would 2 or 3 becuase no one is going to have parts locally.

Post a reply to: Going from yz125 to sx125 (2017)?

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