Rule change?

Mr. G
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Mr. G
I may have this wrong, maybe not. I think the rule after going off the track used to be the rider had to re-enter where they went off. Currently they must only re-enter where safe. Is that right? It is different if true.
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Mr. G
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Mr. G 7/27/2017 8:45am
7/27/2017 8:45am
I prefer the old rule
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/27/2017 8:48am
7/27/2017 8:48am
I say re-enter where you went off. If an area is too dangerous such as a jump takeoff/landing then mark it with red tape. They can re-enter at the next point after red tape.

Letting the riders decide which is the safest spot to re-enter is a bit absurd. All they are doing is picking a spot that causes them the least amount of position/time loss.

Since when is a hill to steep or too muddy considered a "danger"????

Guess if it's Martin and his HOME track.
MX Guy
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MX Guy 7/27/2017 9:12am
7/27/2017 9:12am Edited Date/Time 7/27/2017 9:12am
TXDirt wrote:
I say re-enter where you went off. If an area is too dangerous such as a jump takeoff/landing then mark it with red tape. They can...
I say re-enter where you went off. If an area is too dangerous such as a jump takeoff/landing then mark it with red tape. They can re-enter at the next point after red tape.

Letting the riders decide which is the safest spot to re-enter is a bit absurd. All they are doing is picking a spot that causes them the least amount of position/time loss.

Since when is a hill to steep or too muddy considered a "danger"????

Guess if it's Martin and his HOME track.
As far as I'm concerned J Mart wasn't penalized after that excursion last weekend.

Honestly didn't look that bad to me, if you watch it again he almost fuckin died and had to exit stage left for a second, he waits to re-enter the track when he actually could've entered and then let himself be passed. What would we have been saying if he did that? Seemed like he was right in the mix before he went off track so for him to enter right back into the mix makes sense.

If you disagree I'd like to know why.
DonM
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DonM 7/27/2017 9:15am
7/27/2017 9:15am
Mr. G wrote:
I may have this wrong, maybe not. I think the rule after going off the track used to be the rider had to re-enter where they...
I may have this wrong, maybe not. I think the rule after going off the track used to be the rider had to re-enter where they went off. Currently they must only re-enter where safe. Is that right? It is different if true.
The enter where safe has been in effect for years now....its not a new rule

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TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/27/2017 9:18am
7/27/2017 9:18am
TXDirt wrote:
I say re-enter where you went off. If an area is too dangerous such as a jump takeoff/landing then mark it with red tape. They can...
I say re-enter where you went off. If an area is too dangerous such as a jump takeoff/landing then mark it with red tape. They can re-enter at the next point after red tape.

Letting the riders decide which is the safest spot to re-enter is a bit absurd. All they are doing is picking a spot that causes them the least amount of position/time loss.

Since when is a hill to steep or too muddy considered a "danger"????

Guess if it's Martin and his HOME track.
MX Guy wrote:
As far as I'm concerned J Mart wasn't penalized after that excursion last weekend. Honestly didn't look that bad to me, if you watch it again...
As far as I'm concerned J Mart wasn't penalized after that excursion last weekend.

Honestly didn't look that bad to me, if you watch it again he almost fuckin died and had to exit stage left for a second, he waits to re-enter the track when he actually could've entered and then let himself be passed. What would we have been saying if he did that? Seemed like he was right in the mix before he went off track so for him to enter right back into the mix makes sense.

If you disagree I'd like to know why.
He made a huge mistake. Why is he allowed to be right back in the mix after that? Had he entered back onto the track anywhere reasonable where he went off not only would he be behind Osborne but he would have been 10 seconds back of him.

His decision to cut the track had nothing to do with safety. It was purely a racing decision and he cut track so as not to lose time and the position after his costly mistake. A mistake that didn't cost him anything because he cut the track to get back into the mix.
MX Guy
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MX Guy 7/27/2017 10:00am
7/27/2017 10:00am
TXDirt wrote:
He made a huge mistake. Why is he allowed to be right back in the mix after that? Had he entered back onto the track anywhere...
He made a huge mistake. Why is he allowed to be right back in the mix after that? Had he entered back onto the track anywhere reasonable where he went off not only would he be behind Osborne but he would have been 10 seconds back of him.

His decision to cut the track had nothing to do with safety. It was purely a racing decision and he cut track so as not to lose time and the position after his costly mistake. A mistake that didn't cost him anything because he cut the track to get back into the mix.
I guess I agree with him not losing time from the mistake since he cut the track, but I think the solution would have been to just wait longer to go back on the track but still re-enter where he did. If it's time we're concerned about then entering the track where he did doesn't really matter in my view, since it was safe.
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 7/27/2017 10:23am
7/27/2017 10:23am
I'm cool with the rules as they are. These guys ride the line on track markers. Is this to say if their tire bounces outside of a track marker in the heat of a battle, they have to turn around and make sure their tires are in at all times? That's the way the rule would read. I'm alright with them using some discretion and punishing them for clear violations.
Falcon
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Falcon 7/27/2017 11:38am
7/27/2017 11:38am
Martin did not gain an advantage in the eyes of the AMA race official, who is the guy who ultimately makes that decision.

I'm on the fence about this one. He might have had a rough time getting back on track from where he was; there were flaggers in the way and at least one banner or sign strung up in the trees immediately uphill to where he was. Perhaps it can be argued that he was thinking about his own safety and that of those around him.

Then again, he could have been calculating how much he could get away with according to the rules.
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kkawboy14 7/27/2017 12:32pm
7/27/2017 12:32pm
IWreckALot wrote:
I'm cool with the rules as they are. These guys ride the line on track markers. Is this to say if their tire bounces outside of...
I'm cool with the rules as they are. These guys ride the line on track markers. Is this to say if their tire bounces outside of a track marker in the heat of a battle, they have to turn around and make sure their tires are in at all times? That's the way the rule would read. I'm alright with them using some discretion and punishing them for clear violations.
Agreed!
gt80rider
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gt80rider 7/27/2017 12:40pm
7/27/2017 12:40pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2017 12:41pm
One more try
Jay Cee
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Jay Cee 7/27/2017 12:51pm
7/27/2017 12:51pm
He gained an advantage.. Close the book on this one! Whistling
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/27/2017 12:58pm
7/27/2017 12:58pm
IWreckALot wrote:
I'm cool with the rules as they are. These guys ride the line on track markers. Is this to say if their tire bounces outside of...
I'm cool with the rules as they are. These guys ride the line on track markers. Is this to say if their tire bounces outside of a track marker in the heat of a battle, they have to turn around and make sure their tires are in at all times? That's the way the rule would read. I'm alright with them using some discretion and punishing them for clear violations.
You are comparing your tire bouncing outside of a track marker and someone cutting off 10-15 seconds of the track. Half a straight, a turn, and another straight.

Not exactly apples to apples is it?
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 7/27/2017 1:45pm
7/27/2017 1:45pm
IWreckALot wrote:
I'm cool with the rules as they are. These guys ride the line on track markers. Is this to say if their tire bounces outside of...
I'm cool with the rules as they are. These guys ride the line on track markers. Is this to say if their tire bounces outside of a track marker in the heat of a battle, they have to turn around and make sure their tires are in at all times? That's the way the rule would read. I'm alright with them using some discretion and punishing them for clear violations.
TXDirt wrote:
You are comparing your tire bouncing outside of a track marker and someone cutting off 10-15 seconds of the track. Half a straight, a turn, and...
You are comparing your tire bouncing outside of a track marker and someone cutting off 10-15 seconds of the track. Half a straight, a turn, and another straight.

Not exactly apples to apples is it?
Where do you draw the line? If they save a second? Penalty? Two seconds? Pretty sure JMart could have shaved off a lot more time. I don't see the world as black and white. I've also been in a cross country race where I missed a track marker when I was closing in on a guy and my line put me a few seconds ahead of the dude. I pulled over, waited for him to pass and fell back in behind him. Shit happens in a race at times. My opinion is it should be alright to make a mistake and correct it as soon as you can and keep going. No need to bust a bitch in the middle of a race.

I'm simply stating that I'm cool with the rules as they are. You're free to not be cool with the rules are also.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/27/2017 1:51pm
7/27/2017 1:51pm
The rules are fine as they are. How about actually enforcing them though? Joey was docked. Were you okay with that? Martin wasn't docked for what amounts to a much bigger track cut. And he cut right back in front of Osborne. That was okay?

A track cut is a track cut in MX. It's no like it's nit picking here and he cut out three yellow markers. This isn't a cross country race either. Not sure how many shades you need to see that.

We can agree to disagree...
ruy
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ruy 7/27/2017 2:08pm
7/27/2017 2:08pm
For me it's black flag, exclusion, you can not have an error, go off track, cut track, and return to it as if nothing, to dispute the position.
FahQ
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FahQ 7/27/2017 2:16pm
7/27/2017 2:16pm
Would it be wrong if he crashed within the track boundaries, then cut over to the other side of the track? As long as he didn't gain an advantage?
JB 19
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JB 19 7/27/2017 2:43pm
7/27/2017 2:43pm
TXDirt wrote:
I say re-enter where you went off. If an area is too dangerous such as a jump takeoff/landing then mark it with red tape. They can...
I say re-enter where you went off. If an area is too dangerous such as a jump takeoff/landing then mark it with red tape. They can re-enter at the next point after red tape.

Letting the riders decide which is the safest spot to re-enter is a bit absurd. All they are doing is picking a spot that causes them the least amount of position/time loss.

Since when is a hill to steep or too muddy considered a "danger"????

Guess if it's Martin and his HOME track.
MX Guy wrote:
As far as I'm concerned J Mart wasn't penalized after that excursion last weekend. Honestly didn't look that bad to me, if you watch it again...
As far as I'm concerned J Mart wasn't penalized after that excursion last weekend.

Honestly didn't look that bad to me, if you watch it again he almost fuckin died and had to exit stage left for a second, he waits to re-enter the track when he actually could've entered and then let himself be passed. What would we have been saying if he did that? Seemed like he was right in the mix before he went off track so for him to enter right back into the mix makes sense.

If you disagree I'd like to know why.
My issue is that guys are making big mistakes that should cost them a bunch of time, but instead they just shoot off the track and then wait until the rider they were following comes back around and they reenter the race exactly where they were.

It's gotten to the point to where guys are now cutting entire sections out.
ruy
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ruy 7/27/2017 2:49pm
7/27/2017 2:49pm
JB 19 wrote:
My issue is that guys are making big mistakes that should cost them a bunch of time, but instead they just shoot off the track and...
My issue is that guys are making big mistakes that should cost them a bunch of time, but instead they just shoot off the track and then wait until the rider they were following comes back around and they reenter the race exactly where they were.

It's gotten to the point to where guys are now cutting entire sections out.
Exactly and that was before exclusion, disqualified

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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 7/27/2017 3:05pm
7/27/2017 3:05pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2017 3:13pm
If a rider goes off the track, he should re enter in the same place or further back on the track at a safe place.

If it is too tough, too bad. You shouldn't have lost control. Keep it on 2 wheels.

Now that it has been condoned by the officials, everyone would be stupid not to do it every chance they get. Now you want to see someone hit a Gator?

If it isn't perceived as cheating, maybe the safety of the fans, track workers and the towel waving VIP's should be considered. We already know where they stand on that, Gators come before riders.

OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 7/27/2017 4:11pm
7/27/2017 4:11pm
If you guys haven't seen it in person, the section of track where Jmart went off is quite steep. TV really doesn't make it look that way. To restart at that location and go up the hill would take a fairly straight running start. Trying to start back up the hill from a stop could just make him more of a problem for others coming up the hill and create further havoc. You'd likely loop it out or roast your clutch. The only other solution would be to go back down to the bottom and restart back up.
zookrider62!
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zookrider62! 7/27/2017 4:18pm
7/27/2017 4:18pm
OldYZRider1 wrote:
If you guys haven't seen it in person, the section of track where Jmart went off is quite steep. TV really doesn't make it look that...
If you guys haven't seen it in person, the section of track where Jmart went off is quite steep. TV really doesn't make it look that way. To restart at that location and go up the hill would take a fairly straight running start. Trying to start back up the hill from a stop could just make him more of a problem for others coming up the hill and create further havoc. You'd likely loop it out or roast your clutch. The only other solution would be to go back down to the bottom and restart back up.
Exactly! His mistake should have cost him a ton of time, but instead it impacted his race in no way. He gained an advantage by not dropping back multiple positions as he should have.

Not picking on Martin, this is for any rider that makes such a costly error.
FalseNeutral
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FalseNeutral 7/27/2017 4:33pm
7/27/2017 4:33pm
No one takes advantage of it so why does it even matter?
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/27/2017 4:34pm
7/27/2017 4:34pm
OldYZRider1 wrote:
If you guys haven't seen it in person, the section of track where Jmart went off is quite steep. TV really doesn't make it look that...
If you guys haven't seen it in person, the section of track where Jmart went off is quite steep. TV really doesn't make it look that way. To restart at that location and go up the hill would take a fairly straight running start. Trying to start back up the hill from a stop could just make him more of a problem for others coming up the hill and create further havoc. You'd likely loop it out or roast your clutch. The only other solution would be to go back down to the bottom and restart back up.
Was it steep or super steep?

These are supposed to be the best riders in the world. If he enters track where he went off I guarantee he will make it up the hill. He's a pro for crying out loud.

But why do that when you can just cut track and re-enter right back in the mix.
Acidreamer
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Acidreamer 7/27/2017 5:18pm
7/27/2017 5:18pm
So if you crash down the hill at glen helen you have to ride all the way back up just to re-enter the track? Doesnt make sense. Wherever safe is fine as long as theres no advantages.
wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 7/27/2017 5:19pm
7/27/2017 5:19pm
A steep hill is an obstacle on the course. Missing obstacles and entire sections of track with no loss of time or position is weak in my opinion. The rule needs to be revised.
downard254
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downard254 7/27/2017 5:32pm
7/27/2017 5:32pm
some of you guys sure are bent out of shape over this. Anyone know if even a single rider in the 250 class that day has had an issue with this. It might be an issue if he's in a close points battle for the title, but he's not. It is going to have zero effect on the championship. I get the reasoning behind the right or wrong of it and consistent rulings, but if you start down that path, racing in general will be affected by the rule book and the purity of the sport will be diminished. I really just want to see some good racing.
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zookrider62! 7/27/2017 5:37pm
7/27/2017 5:37pm
Acidreamer wrote:
So if you crash down the hill at glen helen you have to ride all the way back up just to re-enter the track? Doesnt make...
So if you crash down the hill at glen helen you have to ride all the way back up just to re-enter the track? Doesnt make sense. Wherever safe is fine as long as theres no advantages.
Whoops are hard, ride around em as long as it is safe
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/27/2017 6:00pm
7/27/2017 6:00pm
downard254 wrote:
some of you guys sure are bent out of shape over this. Anyone know if even a single rider in the 250 class that day has...
some of you guys sure are bent out of shape over this. Anyone know if even a single rider in the 250 class that day has had an issue with this. It might be an issue if he's in a close points battle for the title, but he's not. It is going to have zero effect on the championship. I get the reasoning behind the right or wrong of it and consistent rulings, but if you start down that path, racing in general will be affected by the rule book and the purity of the sport will be diminished. I really just want to see some good racing.
So the rules don't apply if you aren't in the championship hunt?

Got it. Makes total sense. Whistling
JB 19
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JB 19 7/27/2017 6:16pm
7/27/2017 6:16pm
OldYZRider1 wrote:
If you guys haven't seen it in person, the section of track where Jmart went off is quite steep. TV really doesn't make it look that...
If you guys haven't seen it in person, the section of track where Jmart went off is quite steep. TV really doesn't make it look that way. To restart at that location and go up the hill would take a fairly straight running start. Trying to start back up the hill from a stop could just make him more of a problem for others coming up the hill and create further havoc. You'd likely loop it out or roast your clutch. The only other solution would be to go back down to the bottom and restart back up.
Cody Webb just lol'd at you. Seriously, have you ever rode any Off Road?

....and this wasn't an isolated incident. It's happening all the time.
Dan-The-Man 7/27/2017 6:27pm
7/27/2017 6:27pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2017 6:34pm
TXDirt wrote:
The rules are fine as they are. How about actually enforcing them though? Joey was docked. Were you okay with that? Martin wasn't docked for what...
The rules are fine as they are. How about actually enforcing them though? Joey was docked. Were you okay with that? Martin wasn't docked for what amounts to a much bigger track cut. And he cut right back in front of Osborne. That was okay?

A track cut is a track cut in MX. It's no like it's nit picking here and he cut out three yellow markers. This isn't a cross country race either. Not sure how many shades you need to see that.

We can agree to disagree...
.

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