Starting up a kit suspension test with Showa, WP, KYB, and Ohlins...what's your take on kit suspension?

erik_94COBRA
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7/6/2017 6:19am
Would be interested to know how each suspension set was set up (rider weight and skill) along with the same info for each test rider.
Johnny Depp
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7/6/2017 6:25am
Thanks for putting this dream test together Michael. This is bucket list stuff for me. I'm too old to ever get any racing benefits, but I am determined to burn up my retirement on something like this anyway. For me, how these kits perform as delivered, not revalved for a specific purpose is of the most use. It seems like most shops want to sell you these with their setup, and I'm of the opinion that is just additional dealer markup. MXA's test on the WP's indicated that with just a few clicks they worked for all riders very well. I say spring them all equally and let her rip. I have been waiting for this test and mentioned it on several other forums already, it is a question that comes up a lot.
mxb2
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7/6/2017 6:35am
ML512 wrote:
Got a few 2017 CRF450Rs together, a few riders, and some goodies from: Showa, KYB, WP, and Ohlins...we're getting started this week... Who on here has...
Got a few 2017 CRF450Rs together, a few riders, and some goodies from: Showa, KYB, WP, and Ohlins...we're getting started this week...

Who on here has owned a set of kit suspension? If so, what type and what bike was it for, what did you think of them?



If you could put prices on the kits,. Prices. Might vary on hookups or deals. But post retail.? And what is available and where to purchase.

The Shop

Panic_Rev
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7/6/2017 6:41am
ML512 wrote:
Got a few 2017 CRF450Rs together, a few riders, and some goodies from: Showa, KYB, WP, and Ohlins...we're getting started this week... Who on here has...
Got a few 2017 CRF450Rs together, a few riders, and some goodies from: Showa, KYB, WP, and Ohlins...we're getting started this week...

Who on here has owned a set of kit suspension? If so, what type and what bike was it for, what did you think of them?



You lucky SOB! If you need a slow test rider let me know.
JM485
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7/6/2017 7:27am
JM485 wrote:
How can you hope to properly test that stuff if you can't even bottom it bro?
ML512 wrote:
I'm impressed, we only made it to the third comment before someone referenced my stalker. Laughing
Lol I gotta be good for something around here and it ain't gonna be A kit knowledge!Laughing

Seriously though, this should be a really cool test, looking forward to reading about it.Cool
jeffro503
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7/6/2017 7:37am
ML512 wrote:
Got a few 2017 CRF450Rs together, a few riders, and some goodies from: Showa, KYB, WP, and Ohlins...we're getting started this week... Who on here has...
Got a few 2017 CRF450Rs together, a few riders, and some goodies from: Showa, KYB, WP, and Ohlins...we're getting started this week...

Who on here has owned a set of kit suspension? If so, what type and what bike was it for, what did you think of them?



Gawd dang!! I'm not sure what what kind of testing is going to be done.....but would you just look at that pic? It's a beautiful sight just looking at them things. Interested in see what comes from this.
Myke
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7/6/2017 8:17am
Would be interested to know how each suspension set was set up (rider weight and skill) along with the same info for each test rider.
Same here.

Plus a comparison to a revalved stock suspension set up.
elche232
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7/6/2017 8:43am
ML512 wrote:
Got a few 2017 CRF450Rs together, a few riders, and some goodies from: Showa, KYB, WP, and Ohlins...we're getting started this week... Who on here has...
Got a few 2017 CRF450Rs together, a few riders, and some goodies from: Showa, KYB, WP, and Ohlins...we're getting started this week...

Who on here has owned a set of kit suspension? If so, what type and what bike was it for, what did you think of them?



I have a set of showa pro circuit, SSF-AIr a-kit.. the forks are better then production in terms of performance (stiffer tubes, and lugs, better on big hits and g outs, more consistent feel).. but I feel like the production forks are a little better on small chop, and on hard pack.. the a-kit shock is amazing!! Better in all conditions in my opinion.. when u make adjustments, you can actually feel the difference..
7/6/2017 9:04am
Used to have a set of KYB kit PSF forks with a 2-piece shock on a YZ125. Felt too stiff until I realized I wasn't going fast enough. Once I figured that out the rougher the conditions, the better they felt. So confidence inspiring and forgiving, I never felt that on stock components.

I sold them to another Vital member last winter and think about getting a set of kit forks for my 450, even though it's hard to justify the expense when you're racing twice a year.
7/6/2017 9:04am
This should be interesting....

I have SHOWA kit suspension on my RMZ450, along with my RM250. Even put Cone Valve/ Trax on my '17 KTM EXC500 to replace that explor stuff they cheated us out on with the new bikes.

I bought a set of Cone Valve forks/ Trax shock for my RMZ, but ended up selling it to my buddy and I bought some barely used forks/ shock that came off of Milsaps RMZ. They were revalved/ sprung for me. Well, I went riding to Zaca yesterday with my buddy and half way through the day, we switched bikes to compare A-Kits.... We are within 10 lbs of each other, so they are set up pretty close for weight. He is a very fast Vet Pro, I'm more of a 50+ Int rider on the tracks.
Immediately, I noticed how much higher in the stroke these WP forks seemed to sit. The shock was SUPER PLUSH and really tracked well over the square edged bumps and the Trax mechanism was very noticeable when accelerating thru the corners and felt a lot better than my Showa did. I've had a few sets of Cone Valve/ Trax units on my KTM's in the past and was always very happy with them. I was hesitant about the WP stuff on my RMZ, but I now wish I would of kept it.

The WP stuff I had bought from the Dirt Candy/ Yoshimura team and was originally on Bisceglia's bike which didn't get much use. It was resprung and Ola from WP Factory Services did the revalve for my buddies weight/ability. He did a great job and my buddy is EXTREMELY happy with his purchase.

The Showa kit on my RMZ was resprung and valved from Showa for my weight and ability. It works REALLY good and I'm very happy with it. BUT.... the WP stuff on my buddies bike worked better, IMO. To be fair, I haven't touched a single clicker on my bike, but neither has my freind with the WP Kit. I have some tinkering to do on my bike now and I'm hoping I can improve on what I have.

I still have a "like new" Trax shock and an Ohlins TTX shock that is also like brand new for my RMZ. I was on a buying friendly when I bought the bike... I'd like to find a another set of RMZ Cone Valve forks for it and send them both to Ola to have them set up for me. I really liked my buddies bike and I might be heading that direction, if I can't get my Showa stuff working like I'd like it to. I paid more for my Showa forks than the ConeValves/ Trax and a brand new set of Xtrig ROCS clamps. Selling the Showa stuff won't be a problem, so this could be an option for me.
ML512
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7/6/2017 9:13am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
In order to have a proper test done wouldn't it be more ideal for 1 rider to have all of the kits set up for him...
In order to have a proper test done wouldn't it be more ideal for 1 rider to have all of the kits set up for him and his weight & skill level over multiple riders with different weight/skill levels or are you guys planning on having each kit set up for each rider on different days?

In my opinion switching bikes with different kit suspension setups for different weight/ability won't yield the best results for your test.
The test is going down in two ways.

1. I requested all the suspension and gave my feedback, so technically they're all for me roughly. My weight was given, speed, and a few comments. The other riders in the test are faster and slower than me, and within five pounds of my weight. My idea here was to replicate how most people end up buying this stuff...calling the provider, giving them some info, and receiving a base spec that's been tweaked for their needs. By having the other riders involved I'm seeing how quickly each guy can get a set working for them as one of the bonuses of A-kit stuff is their tune-ability. Some guys that buy this stuff don't have the ability to keep sending it back out, so being able to dial it in with some basic knowledge is pretty important.

2. I'll keep playing with these sets after the initial test and probably have them gone back through at a later day to see how dialed in I can get each set, if I have any complaints that is.

Does this answer your question?
Moto520
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7/6/2017 9:36am
I have the WP Trax shock and Cone Valve spring forks on my 2016 KTM 450SXF. Obviously the fork is better than what was offered stock but nothing earth shattering. I didn't go up 5 seconds a lap or anything. They are nice but i'm not sure they are worth the money. I'm a 43 year old, 195Lb vet A rider.

Slightly better performance but not an immediate, eye opening difference from stock.
dmm698
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7/6/2017 9:41am
Replaced the the stock sff tac air fork on my 16kx450 with 49mm spring Showa kit forks. Also have the akit shock. I had the stock shock revalved twice and still wasn't happy. The a kit shock tracks the ground so much better in acceleration chop. The forks are really plush but have a really solid bottoming resistance. Hands down the best stuff I've ridden although I did not have PC revalve the stock stuff so I am not sure how good they could of gotten the stock stuff working for me, they revalved the a kit for me. It's certainly hands down better than the Enzo revalve I had on my stock psf1 forks and shock on my 13 kx450. If you can swing the UP front cost it's a no brainer in my opinion. And if you wait and buy a set used at a fair price you'll get your money back a year or two down the road if you decide to part ways with the kit stuff.
RCMXracing
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7/6/2017 10:15am
@ML512 PLEASE add in a set of WP AER CV's! Also interested in a comparison with a tuned standard WP AER. I am one of the few that believes AIR is still the future.
7/6/2017 10:26am
Moto520 wrote:
I have the WP Trax shock and Cone Valve spring forks on my 2016 KTM 450SXF. Obviously the fork is better than what was offered stock...
I have the WP Trax shock and Cone Valve spring forks on my 2016 KTM 450SXF. Obviously the fork is better than what was offered stock but nothing earth shattering. I didn't go up 5 seconds a lap or anything. They are nice but i'm not sure they are worth the money. I'm a 43 year old, 195Lb vet A rider.

Slightly better performance but not an immediate, eye opening difference from stock.
Your forks are only going to be as good as their set up. I'm not sure who set yours up, but I can attest to Billy at Powerband as one of the best. He has done several of mine and many of my friends bikes. If you aren't happy with yours, I'd highly recommend trying him when you need them serviced.
Johnny Depp
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7/6/2017 10:29am
I know Fox doesn't make a fork for dirt bikes, but the RC3 Podium shock seems to be in the mix with these other offerings. I think Penske is no longer offering dirt bike shocks?

I mention this, because I would have no problem with a non matching setup if that was the way to go.
ML512
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7/6/2017 10:33am
RCMXracing wrote:
@ML512 PLEASE add in a set of WP AER CV's! Also interested in a comparison with a tuned standard WP AER. I am one of the...
@ML512 PLEASE add in a set of WP AER CV's! Also interested in a comparison with a tuned standard WP AER. I am one of the few that believes AIR is still the future.
They don't have them for the Honda, I asked.
ML512
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7/6/2017 10:35am
I know Fox doesn't make a fork for dirt bikes, but the RC3 Podium shock seems to be in the mix with these other offerings. I...
I know Fox doesn't make a fork for dirt bikes, but the RC3 Podium shock seems to be in the mix with these other offerings. I think Penske is no longer offering dirt bike shocks?

I mention this, because I would have no problem with a non matching setup if that was the way to go.
As far as I'm aware, they don't have a shock for the new CRF. I've tested one before...we had to put a KYB kawi spec in it.
TeamGreen
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7/6/2017 10:58am
Michael,

Have you had production shocks that were made to work as well as kit?
PRM31
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7/6/2017 11:22am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2017 12:02pm
So you will have each on a bike at the same time in order to ride different models back to back on the same track conditions? If so, that is very cool! I'd love to spend a day doing that. Put fresh tires of the same type on each bike and run the same pressure too.

How are you going to test them? My thought would be rather than pounding out laps, pick specific sections such as a rough straight, nasty braking bumps, kickers on acceleration, and ride only that section a few times and then switch and repeat for each.

Looking forward to your review!
FLmxer
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7/6/2017 11:47am
Excited about this and already enjoying the reviews and experiences. My wife won't know if she bought me a new bike or some A kit suspenders for my birthday until she see's her name on one of the tags i pick that says, " to hubby from wifey." I always wanted Showa spring A kit but the WP are interesting as well. I have ridden on a few kits but set up is key.
e-wa
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Pasco, WA, USA
7/6/2017 12:50pm
Love my Ohlins on my 16' KTM XCF 450.
Jterry
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7/6/2017 1:02pm
Im interested in the KYB spring kit stuff and how much better it is than the production stuff that comes on a 16 yz450.
Badd127
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7/6/2017 4:10pm
I have kyb spring kit, set up for me from technical touch in Belgium, and have been very happy with it, but decided a test session would be beneficial, after putting down a good chunk of change for the kit.
On our way home now from our day of suspension setup with Mats from RG3 Scandinavia. One of my buddy's got his blue pig setup as best possible also Laughing
I'm really happy with the result. It's interesting to learn the process Mats uses to setup the bike.
We started with race sag, then went back and forth with preload, then onto the clickers, got the shock set up first then the forks. 
The track was perfect for testing, with a lot of acceleration and braking bumps, and a few decent jumps. 
I was a bit worried that I wouldn't be able to feel the difference in adjustments, or maybe I couldn't communicate my feeling on the bike, but Mats made it easy, and really has a good process, he doesn't put any ideas in your head, just gets you to do one or two laps at a time, then next click. It was fairly exhausting, I spent 1 hour of ride time to do my set up, over about 2.5hrs. 





1
-MAVERICK-
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7/6/2017 5:00pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
In order to have a proper test done wouldn't it be more ideal for 1 rider to have all of the kits set up for him...
In order to have a proper test done wouldn't it be more ideal for 1 rider to have all of the kits set up for him and his weight & skill level over multiple riders with different weight/skill levels or are you guys planning on having each kit set up for each rider on different days?

In my opinion switching bikes with different kit suspension setups for different weight/ability won't yield the best results for your test.
ML512 wrote:
The test is going down in two ways. 1. I requested all the suspension and gave my feedback, so technically they're all for me roughly. My...
The test is going down in two ways.

1. I requested all the suspension and gave my feedback, so technically they're all for me roughly. My weight was given, speed, and a few comments. The other riders in the test are faster and slower than me, and within five pounds of my weight. My idea here was to replicate how most people end up buying this stuff...calling the provider, giving them some info, and receiving a base spec that's been tweaked for their needs. By having the other riders involved I'm seeing how quickly each guy can get a set working for them as one of the bonuses of A-kit stuff is their tune-ability. Some guys that buy this stuff don't have the ability to keep sending it back out, so being able to dial it in with some basic knowledge is pretty important.

2. I'll keep playing with these sets after the initial test and probably have them gone back through at a later day to see how dialed in I can get each set, if I have any complaints that is.

Does this answer your question?
Yep. Was just wondering how you guys were going to conduct this test to get the best results possible that's all.

Only thing that would make this test even better is 2 strokes and east coast tracks but I understand why that's not a possibility.

I got no use for any of the kits but I'm sure some guys on here do so will these kits be sold as used units after you guys are done testing?
ML512
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7/6/2017 5:04pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Yep. Was just wondering how you guys were going to conduct this test to get the best results possible that's all. Only thing that would make...
Yep. Was just wondering how you guys were going to conduct this test to get the best results possible that's all.

Only thing that would make this test even better is 2 strokes and east coast tracks but I understand why that's not a possibility.

I got no use for any of the kits but I'm sure some guys on here do so will these kits be sold as used units after you guys are done testing?
I wish I could do some east coast testing and two-strokes matter less in suspension tests sorta...they're way easier to setup, ha! Especially the forks.

All of these will eventually be returned and I'm pretty sure they have homes.
-MAVERICK-
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7/6/2017 5:12pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Yep. Was just wondering how you guys were going to conduct this test to get the best results possible that's all. Only thing that would make...
Yep. Was just wondering how you guys were going to conduct this test to get the best results possible that's all.

Only thing that would make this test even better is 2 strokes and east coast tracks but I understand why that's not a possibility.

I got no use for any of the kits but I'm sure some guys on here do so will these kits be sold as used units after you guys are done testing?
ML512 wrote:
I wish I could do some east coast testing and two-strokes matter less in suspension tests sorta...they're way easier to setup, ha! Especially the forks. All...
I wish I could do some east coast testing and two-strokes matter less in suspension tests sorta...they're way easier to setup, ha! Especially the forks.

All of these will eventually be returned and I'm pretty sure they have homes.
Thanks and maybe Vital needs to open up an office on the east coast. At least for part of the year in the summer months. Winters spent in California and Georgia/Florida. What more could you ask for.

Vital needs to step up their game lol.
mxb2
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7/6/2017 6:32pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Yep. Was just wondering how you guys were going to conduct this test to get the best results possible that's all. Only thing that would make...
Yep. Was just wondering how you guys were going to conduct this test to get the best results possible that's all.

Only thing that would make this test even better is 2 strokes and east coast tracks but I understand why that's not a possibility.

I got no use for any of the kits but I'm sure some guys on here do so will these kits be sold as used units after you guys are done testing?
ML512 wrote:
I wish I could do some east coast testing and two-strokes matter less in suspension tests sorta...they're way easier to setup, ha! Especially the forks. All...
I wish I could do some east coast testing and two-strokes matter less in suspension tests sorta...they're way easier to setup, ha! Especially the forks.

All of these will eventually be returned and I'm pretty sure they have homes.
Can you post prices of each kit?
Moto520
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7/6/2017 6:53pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2017 8:19pm
Moto520 wrote:
I have the WP Trax shock and Cone Valve spring forks on my 2016 KTM 450SXF. Obviously the fork is better than what was offered stock...
I have the WP Trax shock and Cone Valve spring forks on my 2016 KTM 450SXF. Obviously the fork is better than what was offered stock but nothing earth shattering. I didn't go up 5 seconds a lap or anything. They are nice but i'm not sure they are worth the money. I'm a 43 year old, 195Lb vet A rider.

Slightly better performance but not an immediate, eye opening difference from stock.
Langhammx wrote:
Your forks are only going to be as good as their set up. I'm not sure who set yours up, but I can attest to Billy...
Your forks are only going to be as good as their set up. I'm not sure who set yours up, but I can attest to Billy at Powerband as one of the best. He has done several of mine and many of my friends bikes. If you aren't happy with yours, I'd highly recommend trying him when you need them serviced.
I use Factory Connection and have been very happy with them in comparison to many other suspension companies over the years. I'm just giving my point of view on my suspension. It was good but not a game changer. I'm an "A" level rider and I wanted to remove this variable once and for all to see if it would make a huge difference. It didn't

The guys that don't have the "A" kit stuff and are wondering if buying the suspension will make them much better riders^^^^^^^^^^^thats for you.

I'm like the working man's hero for my comments

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