Cole Seely Crash at Muddy Creek

Johnny Depp
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6/25/2017 7:40pm Edited Date/Time 6/25/2017 7:40pm
sc961 wrote:
What would you guys have those flaggers do? They are educated to never go on the track, by Davey's post from a couple weeks back. The...
What would you guys have those flaggers do?

They are educated to never go on the track, by Davey's post from a couple weeks back.

The dude flagging the table doesn't have anything to flag, since Cole's bike is far enough down the track be out of the direct line of fire, and none of those riders want the jump face flagged unless there's someone in the landing zone.

It's rare when riders at that level slow down much for anything other than a red cross or wheels on the ground flag anyway.
Quit making excuses for sucky flaggers. They have one job to do, wave the shit out of there flag if there is an accident in their area. They failed at that. Let the riders decide what to do, and he is not on the backside of the jump and it does matter.
Knarfious
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6/25/2017 7:53pm
Flagging is getting really, really bad. At Highpoint in qualifying I was shooting photos next to a single that you scrub before you go down a steep hill. Davalos scrubbed a little too hard and went down at the bottom. He ran off to the side but his bike was lying in the middle of the landing. One rider ran over his bike but luckily did not go down. A few seconds went by before the flagger turned to me and said "do you think I should wave the yellow one or the white cross one?" I'm just shocked that there isn't some sort of education or training program that these flaggers have to go through besides a quick morning meeting when riders safety and potentially lives are at stake if someone gets landed on the wrong way. In my opinion there should be a rotating pool of flaggers that travel to each national that have been properly trained and have experience.
cr12500
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6/25/2017 8:41pm
Knarfious wrote:
Flagging is getting really, really bad. At Highpoint in qualifying I was shooting photos next to a single that you scrub before you go down a...
Flagging is getting really, really bad. At Highpoint in qualifying I was shooting photos next to a single that you scrub before you go down a steep hill. Davalos scrubbed a little too hard and went down at the bottom. He ran off to the side but his bike was lying in the middle of the landing. One rider ran over his bike but luckily did not go down. A few seconds went by before the flagger turned to me and said "do you think I should wave the yellow one or the white cross one?" I'm just shocked that there isn't some sort of education or training program that these flaggers have to go through besides a quick morning meeting when riders safety and potentially lives are at stake if someone gets landed on the wrong way. In my opinion there should be a rotating pool of flaggers that travel to each national that have been properly trained and have experience.
Yea, in the second moto I saw a rider stuck on an uphill trying to back his bike down. The flagger was about three feet from the banners/track and the riders coming down the hill couldn't see the rider next to his bike. As the guy is backing his bike down, someone comes through and hits with his bars right to the chest. He was down for a bit then got up. Meanwhile the flagger sat there trying to get someone else's attention to help while not flagging at all so the guy could have been hit again on the ground, thankfully he wasn't.

I've seen better flagging at local races.
ruy
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6/25/2017 9:04pm
In the world championship of MotoGP when there has been a new Grand Prix, in a country without a motorcycle tradition, some times there has been a group of Spanish flaggers, until it has been necessary, Spain where there are four GPs a year, more than in No other country. and a important national championship where go the youngers riders from all world.
I think in Motocross AMA should be more professional as well with the flaggers.

The Shop

KirkChandler
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6/25/2017 9:20pm
Did the official on the landing of that jump have a blue flag instead of a yellow flag? Hard to tell. But maybe that's why he didn't wave his flag?

In Supercross the Feld Track crew (DigDougs) are there to get the down bikes out of the track quickly and to control the situation rapidly. But a football field is way easier to manage than a whole valley.
Juice_Mann
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6/25/2017 9:50pm
Where are the fucking flaggers?! Unbelievable
KB221
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6/26/2017 12:50am Edited Date/Time 6/26/2017 12:54am
sc961 wrote:
What would you guys have those flaggers do? They are educated to never go on the track, by Davey's post from a couple weeks back. The...
What would you guys have those flaggers do?

They are educated to never go on the track, by Davey's post from a couple weeks back.

The dude flagging the table doesn't have anything to flag, since Cole's bike is far enough down the track be out of the direct line of fire, and none of those riders want the jump face flagged unless there's someone in the landing zone.

It's rare when riders at that level slow down much for anything other than a red cross or wheels on the ground flag anyway.
Quit making excuses for sucky flaggers. They have one job to do, wave the shit out of there flag if there is an accident in their...
Quit making excuses for sucky flaggers. They have one job to do, wave the shit out of there flag if there is an accident in their area. They failed at that. Let the riders decide what to do, and he is not on the backside of the jump and it does matter.
Against my better judgement I'm gonna jump in on this one.

The flagger at the top of the jump has a yellow flag and a blue flag. After Cole crashed he did exactly fuck all, he should have been flying the yellow flag, period. This is the only error in this racing incident that I see.

Hoping for a quick recovery for Cole.
6/26/2017 3:17am
I think Webb knew exactly what he was doing. Freaking a$$hole.
rongi#401
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6/26/2017 3:22am
webb looks like he got crossed going up the face, and cole was in the wrong place, wrong time.
he took a big digger to the head. he was on the side of the track just thinking what the f*ck just happened. not a good feeling when your going into cranial meltdown mode. hope hes ok, and hope he takes his time on the comeback. no shame in taking a few rounds off to get your head cleared.
everytime ive gotten a concussion, a week or two later i feel like im fine, but then two months later i look back at that moment when i thought i was fine, and you realise that you were definitely not fine
rongi#401
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6/26/2017 3:23am
motokiwi wrote:
I think Webb knew exactly what he was doing. Freaking a$$hole.
oh ok, your your saying that webb intentionally got landed on? have you even ridden a bike on a track?
Crush
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6/26/2017 3:33am
What the fuck, is that flagger doing?
Crush
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6/26/2017 3:35am
sc961 wrote:
What would you guys have those flaggers do? They are educated to never go on the track, by Davey's post from a couple weeks back. The...
What would you guys have those flaggers do?

They are educated to never go on the track, by Davey's post from a couple weeks back.

The dude flagging the table doesn't have anything to flag, since Cole's bike is far enough down the track be out of the direct line of fire, and none of those riders want the jump face flagged unless there's someone in the landing zone.

It's rare when riders at that level slow down much for anything other than a red cross or wheels on the ground flag anyway.
Quit making excuses for sucky flaggers. They have one job to do, wave the shit out of there flag if there is an accident in their...
Quit making excuses for sucky flaggers. They have one job to do, wave the shit out of there flag if there is an accident in their area. They failed at that. Let the riders decide what to do, and he is not on the backside of the jump and it does matter.
Wouldn't wave the fucking flag be the bare-minimum.

Shit, even the guy at Colorado was doing that.
rmoto003
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6/26/2017 4:16am
Did yall not see the dude flagging on the face of the jump? Lol
sc961
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6/26/2017 6:06am
Quit making excuses for sucky flaggers. They have one job to do, wave the shit out of there flag if there is an accident in their...
Quit making excuses for sucky flaggers. They have one job to do, wave the shit out of there flag if there is an accident in their area. They failed at that. Let the riders decide what to do, and he is not on the backside of the jump and it does matter.
Oh Johnny, I don't recall making excuses for anyone?

My opinion would be approximately 25% of the flaggers around the country put in a below par effort, and that same percentage over achieve but rarely get noticed.

That said, it's a crappy job that doesn't pay much "and they have hundreds of bosses all the way around the track" at the amateur level.

It's doubtful the pay increases exponentially at the pro level "and in addition to those fans around the track, these dudes have to put up with all the key board warriors on line". There's a pre-race educational get together and everyone heads out for their day in the stand, if they have one.

They don't have only one job, but I don't blame you for the lack of education and knowledge.

The yellow flag has so little meaning at that level, they could "almost" be done away with.

By the way, for all those people proposing there should be professional flaggers hired for the series, I'd ask that you briefly put a pencil to that from an expense side, and come back with categories and numbers, as well as who pays that bill?
ruy
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6/26/2017 5:39pm
Yes, and a this high level of competition, is very bad don´t have a good flaggers with experience how know what to do.
motosurf
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6/26/2017 6:02pm
You guys should all catch a vanpool to red bud and flag.
ruy
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6/26/2017 6:57pm
And you drive.
dkg
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6/26/2017 7:30pm
rmoto003 wrote:
Man, Cole made a bad choice there. He should have been wearing a fanny pack with all the tools he needs to fix his bike when...
Man, Cole made a bad choice there. He should have been wearing a fanny pack with all the tools he needs to fix his bike when he crashes like that so he can get back to the race.

He could have easily gotten up, put his bike on the fold out stand he carries on his back (like a backpack) and started fixing everything he needed to fix on the bike, then got going again.

Its a shame that these modern day riders cant even rebuild a top-end during a race like I used to do back in the 80's at chicken licks raceway. Bunch of modern day pansies


LOL

JustMX
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6/26/2017 7:38pm
motosurf wrote:
You guys should all catch a vanpool to red bud and flag.
no kidding.....

this stuff is getting old.

still ragging on the flagger at thunder valley who WAS waving his flag vigorously.

tired of hearing about nick wey saving the day when he got there after all but 5 or 6 back markers had gone by and then did something that flaggers are specifically told NOT TO DO for a very good reason.

Now we are getting percentages like they have done some kind of algorithm or crunched data.

here is one for you then, figured scientifically with help from friends at MIT,

71.66789898 % of you NBC Gold couch experts are clueless, and of those, 29.45672 % are just plain full of BS.

give it a rest guys.

disbanded
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6/26/2017 7:38pm
rmoto003 wrote:
Man, Cole made a bad choice there. He should have been wearing a fanny pack with all the tools he needs to fix his bike when...
Man, Cole made a bad choice there. He should have been wearing a fanny pack with all the tools he needs to fix his bike when he crashes like that so he can get back to the race.

He could have easily gotten up, put his bike on the fold out stand he carries on his back (like a backpack) and started fixing everything he needed to fix on the bike, then got going again.

Its a shame that these modern day riders cant even rebuild a top-end during a race like I used to do back in the 80's at chicken licks raceway. Bunch of modern day pansies
Quality
huck
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6/27/2017 8:19am
sc961 wrote:
Oh Johnny, I don't recall making excuses for anyone? My opinion would be approximately 25% of the flaggers around the country put in a below par...
Oh Johnny, I don't recall making excuses for anyone?

My opinion would be approximately 25% of the flaggers around the country put in a below par effort, and that same percentage over achieve but rarely get noticed.

That said, it's a crappy job that doesn't pay much "and they have hundreds of bosses all the way around the track" at the amateur level.

It's doubtful the pay increases exponentially at the pro level "and in addition to those fans around the track, these dudes have to put up with all the key board warriors on line". There's a pre-race educational get together and everyone heads out for their day in the stand, if they have one.

They don't have only one job, but I don't blame you for the lack of education and knowledge.

The yellow flag has so little meaning at that level, they could "almost" be done away with.

By the way, for all those people proposing there should be professional flaggers hired for the series, I'd ask that you briefly put a pencil to that from an expense side, and come back with categories and numbers, as well as who pays that bill?
It's not worth arguing with these idiots...when they are out on a witch hunt, logic and posts from guys that have 'been there and done that' go out the windows.

Frodad78
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6/27/2017 10:13am
Looked like he could have moved well enough to get his bike off the track before he went for a roll in the grass.
We found the flagger bros..
Hut
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6/27/2017 10:18am
Hope he is feeling alright today. Not enough on that video to lay blame imho but I didn't stay at Holiday Inn recently so what do I know.
akillerwombat
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6/27/2017 10:19am
Flagger throwing the red cross flag...



Denny979
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6/27/2017 10:19am
I have flagged a number of nationals and the AMA flagger on the jump acted correctly. Once the "wheels on the ground" flags are displayed you are not supposed to wave a yellow flag in that section because it can be interpreted by the riders
that they are past the incident and can speed back up confusing the situation. He could point where to go but not wave it. Technically the flagger in the tower was in the wrong for waving the yellow in that spot (he was probably waving his flag before call came in to display the "wheels on the ground" so all good.
Keep in mind this video and the one in Colorado were taken from the opposite direction from the riders view.
There is a flagging system in place that works very well. All flaggers go through a mandatory training session
where the first thing explained is to keep your self safe and how to wave the flag. Hold it out if not a serious issue and waving should be proportionate to the seriousness of the incident. There are a number of AMA personnel stationed around the track and they are the ones to assist on the track while the track flaggers are to maintain their position and keep flagging.
I have personally stepped in to the track to do a better job and it doesn't take long to realize it wasn't a good idea. The riders are pro and there is a good chance they wanted the last foot of track I was standing in.
Like most things there is a human element and mistakes get made and things get hectic track side. Give it a try sometime you will gain a whole new perspective on how things are run at a national.
Hut
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6/27/2017 10:22am
Looked like he could have moved well enough to get his bike off the track before he went for a roll in the grass.


Hut
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6/27/2017 10:30am
They were sleeping, no doubt those flags should have been waving. Yellow flags at the Pros are pretty useless really but immediately after the red cross wouldn't that signify the area affected? Put yourself in the riders shoes if you just rolled one, then the flaggers are just flat footed on the next section wouldn't you roll the throttle on?
akillerwombat
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6/27/2017 10:35am
According to the rule book:
"White and Red Stripe Flag (“Wheels on the Ground” Flag): Indicates a potentially hazardous situation
on or near the racetrack in an area that is not clearly visible to on-coming riders. Riders must proceed
with extreme caution. Both wheels of the motorcycle must remain on the ground over obstacles until the
rider has passed the area of concern. Passing is NOT allowed. This flag takes precedence over all other
flags that may be displayed. Penalty for violation of the flag may include but not be limited to, loss of
championship point(s) and/or race position(s), as determined by the Race Director."

In short; you see the red cross flag you keep it wheels on the ground, ride with extreme caution, and no passing until you see and clear the incident. I feel adding yellow flags directly after the red cross flag would have lead the riders to believe they passed the "wheels on the ground zone" and thus increase their speed and attempt to make passes.
akillerwombat
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6/27/2017 10:46am
According to the rules "using yellow flags" isn't better than no flag as a yellow flag allows you to increase your speed, pass, etc. where the red cross basically means slow down to a fucking turtles pace (of which no one did in the video).

As far as the placement of the red flag on the first table, no, it's not ideal (and they should have had another red cross flag on the second), but again the rules are defined as "go slow as fuck until you see why we are flagging". Clearly the riders could see that nothing happened after the first table so they (according to the rules) should have continued to go slow over the second table until they rolled upon the incident.

The rules are pretty well defined when it comes to this.
Denny979
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6/27/2017 11:01am
If you look closely there is a wheels on the ground waving in front of the first jump also (there could be one before the second we can't see). I learned first hand about the waving of a yellow in a wheels on the ground section because I did it (it is very hard not to).The AMA official said it could become confusing to a rider.

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