R.I.P. Isle of Man Riders

DemoDick
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6/8/2017 10:31am
kage173 wrote:
What is more selfish than telling somebody else they cannot live their life the way they want to simply because you don't agree with it????
End of thread right there.
DFWracefan
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6/8/2017 10:32am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2017 10:42am
The one rider (a few years ago) that got the corner all wrong and went head on into the side of a brick building, at nearly full song......that was absolutely brutal. There is not a barrier out that would protect something like that. Even an air bag probably would have broke the guy beyond repair.


Bob Price 2014... Sad
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qNVB2HdkN_A
bsharkey
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6/8/2017 10:33am
gsxrcr28 wrote:
That track is beyond sketchy.
RIP moto brothers.
That's the problem it's not a track. as much as I think the event is cool and it's exciting to watch there's way too much risk. One bad move and you're done. Also very risky for spectators as well one of those guys crashes in the wrong spot and you could kill tons of people just watching
6/8/2017 10:34am
x2. This race is held on closed public roads with minimal modifications or safety protection. Riders are going in excess of 180 MPH on bikes purpose...
x2. This race is held on closed public roads with minimal modifications or safety protection. Riders are going in excess of 180 MPH on bikes purpose designed for closed course racing. What do you think the outcome will be? The Organizers are willing to sacrifice riders' lives for money and the spectacle. Fans flock to it for the same reasons. Yeah, those who ride it make the choice to do so. For what? Glory? Not much glory leaving your family behind by dying in a race that very few globally have even heard about. I doubt my wife or 10 year old would be satisfied with my tombstone reading "at least i died doing what i love".

I love to race stuff. Have done so since 15, and I'm 54 now. But, I'm not willing to die doing it. My commitment to my family far outweighs my desire to race. If I do die racing, and that's always a possibility in motocross,it won't be because I was racing in something that so obviously increases the risk of fatality as this race does.

Hammer 663s
Put simply: Anything up to MY level of risk is ok, anything above that should be banned. Nothing but hypocrisy.

The Shop

Beeby
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6/8/2017 10:42am
Lets not make the mistake that this event is put on for money, to promote anything or for spectator enjoyment. Take away the race, the promotion and the spectators and these people will ride it each year just with a stopwatch and a start/finish line. Its about the thrill of the ride and the challenge to be fastest against the clock. They don't care if anyone is watching, how much they paid to watch or how the rest of the world thinks.

Oh, and it doesn't actually cost anything to watch it. Its on public roads, so you can find a spot and watch for free. Its only ticketed if you want a grandstand or hospitality ticket.
hititpind
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6/8/2017 10:43am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2017 10:54am
Katoomey wrote:
i don't know if we should ban anything, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it socially. anyone who takes that kind of risk, for...
i don't know if we should ban anything, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it socially. anyone who takes that kind of risk, for that kind of reward, is selfish, self absorbed asshole..theres no glory in risking your life for a shiny trophy and a stroke of the ego. Risking your life to the benefit of others...thats worthy of song and praise...not riding a motorcycle like an idiot.

your example of mountain climbing is literally the worst example you could use. YES!!! people are actively trying to stop people from climbing certain peaks.

Telling people how to live there life because you don't agree with something...

You live your life, I will live mine. Stop worrying about others.
6/8/2017 10:44am
I've seen some kids pull up to the track on a 250 or 450, with zero experience jumping or riding around other, and just "going for it" on the biggest jumps. To me, some of the kids I run into are in greater risk than someone like Guy Martin who literally knows every bump and undulation on that entire island, and can ride the entire thing in his head.

Here's something else for ya, what about this guy:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/features/athletes/alex-honnold/most-dangerous-free-solo-climb-yosemite-national-park-el-capitan/
bsharkey
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6/8/2017 10:44am
Sideways wrote:
Should we forbid everything that is dangerous? How many have died climbing mountains? Should we ban that also? Maybe we should ban wingsuit jumping aswell! These...
Should we forbid everything that is dangerous? How many have died climbing mountains? Should we ban that also? Maybe we should ban wingsuit jumping aswell!

These guys live for this. They know the risk and are willing to take. I have heard so many interviews with riders saying - "If i die, atleast i die doing what i love."
KB221 wrote:
This is an ignorant argument. If you held a race were people died every year would you keep doing it? This shit makes me so angry...
This is an ignorant argument.

If you held a race were people died every year would you keep doing it?

This shit makes me so angry.

RIP Boys
x2. This race is held on closed public roads with minimal modifications or safety protection. Riders are going in excess of 180 MPH on bikes purpose...
x2. This race is held on closed public roads with minimal modifications or safety protection. Riders are going in excess of 180 MPH on bikes purpose designed for closed course racing. What do you think the outcome will be? The Organizers are willing to sacrifice riders' lives for money and the spectacle. Fans flock to it for the same reasons. Yeah, those who ride it make the choice to do so. For what? Glory? Not much glory leaving your family behind by dying in a race that very few globally have even heard about. I doubt my wife or 10 year old would be satisfied with my tombstone reading "at least i died doing what i love".

I love to race stuff. Have done so since 15, and I'm 54 now. But, I'm not willing to die doing it. My commitment to my family far outweighs my desire to race. If I do die racing, and that's always a possibility in motocross,it won't be because I was racing in something that so obviously increases the risk of fatality as this race does.

Hammer 663s
I totally agree. The problem I see is someone dies at this event every year and somehow everyone wants to say that's okay because they know the Risks. How is that okay? Name any other race where a rider or riders die at it every single year at the same event. Like I said it's exciting to watch and it's cool but not necessarily right. You might change your ideas to if you were actually there and saw some of that happen.
hititpind
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6/8/2017 10:47am
bsharkey wrote:
That's the problem it's not a track. as much as I think the event is cool and it's exciting to watch there's way too much risk...
That's the problem it's not a track. as much as I think the event is cool and it's exciting to watch there's way too much risk. One bad move and you're done. Also very risky for spectators as well one of those guys crashes in the wrong spot and you could kill tons of people just watching
So don't ride it and don't go watch it.

Simple
Hammer 663s
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6/8/2017 10:47am
x2. This race is held on closed public roads with minimal modifications or safety protection. Riders are going in excess of 180 MPH on bikes purpose...
x2. This race is held on closed public roads with minimal modifications or safety protection. Riders are going in excess of 180 MPH on bikes purpose designed for closed course racing. What do you think the outcome will be? The Organizers are willing to sacrifice riders' lives for money and the spectacle. Fans flock to it for the same reasons. Yeah, those who ride it make the choice to do so. For what? Glory? Not much glory leaving your family behind by dying in a race that very few globally have even heard about. I doubt my wife or 10 year old would be satisfied with my tombstone reading "at least i died doing what i love".

I love to race stuff. Have done so since 15, and I'm 54 now. But, I'm not willing to die doing it. My commitment to my family far outweighs my desire to race. If I do die racing, and that's always a possibility in motocross,it won't be because I was racing in something that so obviously increases the risk of fatality as this race does.

Hammer 663s
Put simply: Anything up to MY level of risk is ok, anything above that should be banned. Nothing but hypocrisy.
Read my post moron - where did I say ban it? It's the rider's choice to enter or not. I think it used to be good event but that technology has made it unsafe, and for reasons of money and spectacle the organizers continue to run it. Eventually it will probably stop because too many get killed - either riders or a group of spectators.

I think it's a selfish, stupid choice to enter it, especially if you have a family to support. I think it's an obsolete race and will eventually cease. I think the riders are somewhat whacked, and obviously brave. I think I love to watch the race. Feel free to disagree with any or all of that.

Hammer 663s
6/8/2017 10:55am
Between the TT and Alex Honnold free soloing El Cap there are a lot of snowflakes getting triggered. Tongue
Canadad
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6/8/2017 11:01am
I am a huge fan of the IOM and Irish roadracing and attend on a regular basis. While I agree that what these guys do is nuts, it is incredible to me how the human mind and body can process and react to change so quickly with almost no margin for error. These riders have a God given ability to do what they do and they have the right to express it. You also need to know that the spectators are there to see them exercise this ability not for crashes. Please go and see this for yourself, you will be blown away that any human being can do what they do. I do find it hypocritical that a mx rider would call this level of risk unacceptable. Clearly acceptable risk must be determined by the individual, some prefer to stay in the safety of their home, some only feel alive by risking it all.

Lee Johnston was injured at the TT earlier this week, his tatt says it all.."I don't fear death....I fear not living"



6/8/2017 11:05am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2017 11:07am
Read my post moron - where did I say ban it? It's the rider's choice to enter or not. I think it used to be good...
Read my post moron - where did I say ban it? It's the rider's choice to enter or not. I think it used to be good event but that technology has made it unsafe, and for reasons of money and spectacle the organizers continue to run it. Eventually it will probably stop because too many get killed - either riders or a group of spectators.

I think it's a selfish, stupid choice to enter it, especially if you have a family to support. I think it's an obsolete race and will eventually cease. I think the riders are somewhat whacked, and obviously brave. I think I love to watch the race. Feel free to disagree with any or all of that.

Hammer 663s
Seems I hit a nerve, thought you guys over there were all about personal freedom (if it inflicted risk on others that would be a different story)
It's more popular than it's ever been so I don't see it stopping any time soon. It's not held for money and the riders don't race for the money, they could make much more on a circuit series.

Every time YOU swing a leg over an MX bike you are risking your safety solely for enjoyment, no less selfish than what these guys do, it's just a matter of scale.

I will rephrase: Anything up to my level of risk is ok, anything above that is wrong
Canadad
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6/8/2017 11:06am
Canadad wrote:
I am a huge fan of the IOM and Irish roadracing and attend on a regular basis. While I agree that what these guys do is...
I am a huge fan of the IOM and Irish roadracing and attend on a regular basis. While I agree that what these guys do is nuts, it is incredible to me how the human mind and body can process and react to change so quickly with almost no margin for error. These riders have a God given ability to do what they do and they have the right to express it. You also need to know that the spectators are there to see them exercise this ability not for crashes. Please go and see this for yourself, you will be blown away that any human being can do what they do. I do find it hypocritical that a mx rider would call this level of risk unacceptable. Clearly acceptable risk must be determined by the individual, some prefer to stay in the safety of their home, some only feel alive by risking it all.

Lee Johnston was injured at the TT earlier this week, his tatt says it all.."I don't fear death....I fear not living"



By the way...Lee survived this little "off" and hopes to be ready for the Ulster Grand Prix in Ireland later this summer.
6/8/2017 11:07am
mxjon454 wrote:
R.I.P to all those fallen riders. Idk how they can keep running this race when people die every year from it
Sideways wrote:
Should we forbid everything that is dangerous? How many have died climbing mountains? Should we ban that also? Maybe we should ban wingsuit jumping aswell! These...
Should we forbid everything that is dangerous? How many have died climbing mountains? Should we ban that also? Maybe we should ban wingsuit jumping aswell!

These guys live for this. They know the risk and are willing to take. I have heard so many interviews with riders saying - "If i die, atleast i die doing what i love."
Katoomey wrote:
i don't know if we should ban anything, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it socially. anyone who takes that kind of risk, for...
i don't know if we should ban anything, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it socially. anyone who takes that kind of risk, for that kind of reward, is selfish, self absorbed asshole..theres no glory in risking your life for a shiny trophy and a stroke of the ego. Risking your life to the benefit of others...thats worthy of song and praise...not riding a motorcycle like an idiot.

your example of mountain climbing is literally the worst example you could use. YES!!! people are actively trying to stop people from climbing certain peaks.

So I think most people, yourself included, would say that it shouldn't be acceptable to take large risks when either there is no benefit to anyone other than yourself (selfish), or when the consequence could hurt others. Right?

What about folks who make risky or uninformed investments with their 401Ks? Selfish? yes. Risky? Yes. Will it benefit anyone other than themselves? Probably not. Even worse, if it doesn't work out, others are often left footing their bill through Medicare and SS, or bailouts.

Do you find it socially acceptable?

What about people who don't even save anything? They dump everything they make into their dirtbikes and cars and houses for the benefit NOW, while taking a gamble that somehow they (or someone else) will be able to sustain them into retirement.

I don't see many people objecting to this kind of risk taking. As a matter of fact, in general, we promote that in our culture. We post our objections to people's behavior like the IOMTT racers who died, even though they solely own the consequences and rewards of the risk they take, but don't think twice about continuing to leverage up our country for other generations to deal with.

I'm surprised we aren't all crosseyed from looking down our noses at guys like these racers, with all of their irresponsible behavior. Somebody should definitely do something about THEM! Somebody needs to tell the IoM what they can and can't do on their island, because we Americans know better about managing risk..

Whistling Laughing
Jrewing
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6/8/2017 11:08am
Mx746 wrote:
4 in 2016 3 in 2017. 32 in last decade. How can organizers sleep at night.
Easy. Life choices. Doing what you love.
6/8/2017 11:24am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2017 11:48am
Has Vital been infiltrated by Mothers Against Death Sports?
Hammer 663s
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6/8/2017 11:29am
Seems I hit a nerve, thought you guys over there were all about personal freedom (if it inflicted risk on others that would be a different...
Seems I hit a nerve, thought you guys over there were all about personal freedom (if it inflicted risk on others that would be a different story)
It's more popular than it's ever been so I don't see it stopping any time soon. It's not held for money and the riders don't race for the money, they could make much more on a circuit series.

Every time YOU swing a leg over an MX bike you are risking your safety solely for enjoyment, no less selfish than what these guys do, it's just a matter of scale.

I will rephrase: Anything up to my level of risk is ok, anything above that is wrong
I'm not even sure I'd agree with "Anything up to my level of risk is ok, anything above that is wrong".

Everyone has their own level of acceptable risk in many arenas of life, as others have pointed out. Some risks are so obvious as incredibly high that to accept them is IMHO stupid, and possibly negligent, if the outcome of the worst case exposes others reliant on you to huge loss. This is more so applicable in the pursuit of sport. I took risks several times in my 20 years of military and gov't service that could have been considered unreasonable, but it was the job, not "sport" or recreation. I continue to take "unreasonable risk" in pursuit of recreation, but my threshold is lower and lower every year. Financially I take some risk to pursue gain, and there too I will change as I age. The risk of the TT is clear - a percentage will die annually, with others injured. I'll still stand by my opinion that this race is becoming too risky as currently run, due to technological advances.

In the MX community we have the same issue esp in Supercross. Often debated here if the human body and mind can continue to keep up with the advances in machines and technical demands of tracks. Higher rate of devastating injuries, loss of riders for the entire season (due to injury), earlier and earlier retirements seem to be on the rise. But not 3 deaths in one weekend.

Hammer 663s
6/8/2017 11:43am
First & foremost, R.I.P for the riders that have lost their lives this week.

To the people saying this should be banned. Why? Because it is dangerous? Of course it is & thats why it was taken off of the Grand Prix calendar. If a track is deemed too dangerous but its part of a racing season, then yes, the riders are having a gun pointed at them. With the TT, nobody is doing that. They are riding because they want to, the thrill of conquering the course over the fastest possible time. They know the risks, their friends & family know the risks. The TT will never go away, it's the creme la the creme of Real Road Racing. It's massive for the economy of the Isle Of Man, people who live out or go to live out there, live & breathe the TT. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want it to be banned.
NorCal 50+
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6/8/2017 11:53am
Even as a longtime motorcycle racer, this level of risk is beyond my understanding. It seems almost suicidal.
But keep in mind that many people look at one lap of a motocross race and feel the same way. It's all in your perspective I guess.
MXMattii
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6/8/2017 11:59am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2017 12:05pm
kage173 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/08/199440/s1200_road.jpg[/img] Every motorcycle racer should watch this movie on Netflix. You'll spend half the time wanting to go ride and half the time tearing up like...


Every motorcycle racer should watch this movie on Netflix. You'll spend half the time wanting to go ride and half the time tearing up like a little girl.....especially if you grew up riding with your Dad.
I normally aren't a very emotional guy, but when I saw that movie tears were ready in mine eyes. Damn those Dunlops! I'm now waiting to order his book and also Ian's book about how he came back after his gruesome leg injury.

I like the TT but I'm more a Ulster, NW200 fan. Real racing. But TT is mythical. Bye the way the Honda going in fake nutural or how do you guys call it, isn't that what made the legend John McGuinness crash at the NorthWest 200?
6/8/2017 12:10pm
Katoomey wrote:
i don't know if we should ban anything, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it socially. anyone who takes that kind of risk, for...
i don't know if we should ban anything, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it socially. anyone who takes that kind of risk, for that kind of reward, is selfish, self absorbed asshole..theres no glory in risking your life for a shiny trophy and a stroke of the ego. Risking your life to the benefit of others...thats worthy of song and praise...not riding a motorcycle like an idiot.

your example of mountain climbing is literally the worst example you could use. YES!!! people are actively trying to stop people from climbing certain peaks.

Accept it socially? What the fuck are you talking about snowflake? There's nothing to 'accept', these are grown men racing in a road course, VERY much aware of the insane risks they are taking. At the very least, show some respect.

RIP to the fallen riders, i tip my hat to you all.
6/8/2017 12:13pm
kage173 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/08/199440/s1200_road.jpg[/img] Every motorcycle racer should watch this movie on Netflix. You'll spend half the time wanting to go ride and half the time tearing up like...


Every motorcycle racer should watch this movie on Netflix. You'll spend half the time wanting to go ride and half the time tearing up like a little girl.....especially if you grew up riding with your Dad.
I watched this with my dad, we were both in tears by the end. Absolutely incredible movie.
Manco
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6/8/2017 12:17pm
Sideways wrote:
Should we forbid everything that is dangerous? How many have died climbing mountains? Should we ban that also? Maybe we should ban wingsuit jumping aswell! These...
Should we forbid everything that is dangerous? How many have died climbing mountains? Should we ban that also? Maybe we should ban wingsuit jumping aswell!

These guys live for this. They know the risk and are willing to take. I have heard so many interviews with riders saying - "If i die, atleast i die doing what i love."
KB221 wrote:
This is an ignorant argument. If you held a race were people died every year would you keep doing it? This shit makes me so angry...
This is an ignorant argument.

If you held a race were people died every year would you keep doing it?

This shit makes me so angry.

RIP Boys
No one is forcing anyone to race the race. If you and others don't want to take the chance, don't. If others do want to its on them. Claiming you have a right to dictate to others how to live their life is obnoxious.


tek14
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6/8/2017 12:30pm
NorCal 50+ wrote:
Even as a longtime motorcycle racer, this level of risk is beyond my understanding. It seems almost suicidal. But keep in mind that many people look...
Even as a longtime motorcycle racer, this level of risk is beyond my understanding. It seems almost suicidal.
But keep in mind that many people look at one lap of a motocross race and feel the same way. It's all in your perspective I guess.
Im watching middle age men riding dirt bike at track and I'm scared. No one have ever told them how to jump but some try or they jump even not trying. -Risk level broken bones and so on.
When I'm watching Isle of Man I'm scared but another level. When they make mistake speed is too severe to survive with broken bones. They do what they love but pain remains for their wives, childrens and so on when they make small mistake and are gone.
bsharkey
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6/8/2017 12:31pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2017 12:32pm


This sums it up pretty well
MXMattii
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6/8/2017 12:45pm
Katoomey wrote:
i don't know if we should ban anything, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it socially. anyone who takes that kind of risk, for...
i don't know if we should ban anything, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it socially. anyone who takes that kind of risk, for that kind of reward, is selfish, self absorbed asshole..theres no glory in risking your life for a shiny trophy and a stroke of the ego. Risking your life to the benefit of others...thats worthy of song and praise...not riding a motorcycle like an idiot.

your example of mountain climbing is literally the worst example you could use. YES!!! people are actively trying to stop people from climbing certain peaks.

Accept it socially? What the fuck are you talking about snowflake? There's nothing to 'accept', these are grown men racing in a road course, VERY much...
Accept it socially? What the fuck are you talking about snowflake? There's nothing to 'accept', these are grown men racing in a road course, VERY much aware of the insane risks they are taking. At the very least, show some respect.

RIP to the fallen riders, i tip my hat to you all.
Northwest, last year, great weather, ... about 180.000 viewers there to watch the practices and races. About 260.000.000 viewers on the live stream because BBC does some effort. I guess people are still liking the "Gladiators" but now they are on two wheels.

Very interesting sponsorship file this.
Motodave15
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6/8/2017 12:59pm
Peoples personal risk levels are subjective and can never be legislated out.

Should they ban the race? No.
Could they make improvements. Yes

should you bitch about people with their own freewill entering a race confidently.... No!

The people who say the race should be banned are exactly the reason why things get more and more extreme.. Its because they think they know better for somebody else... and unless its your own kid, you need to let them make their choices.
sickboy3636
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6/8/2017 1:26pm
bsharkey wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/08/199473/s1200_Screenshot_20170608_123003.jpg[/img] This sums it up pretty well


This sums it up pretty well
Really puts it into perspective that these guys aren't ignorant to the risks. From day 1 they are aware that a simple mistake is death. And because they can willingly and fearlessly do it, I respect em all the more. To the ones whining about the risks......stay inside your airbag equipped Prius. I'm single and don't have kids or a wife to worry about......and if I could ride at that level, I could totally see the pure main vein adrenaline shot that kind of racing would give you. I certainly don't have the skills to ride like that.......but if I did I wouldn't want someone else dicatating what's an acceptable risk and what's not. It's sad they lost their lives, but I can bet you money if you asked any of those guys what their greatest memories were while they were still alive, it would have to do with exactly what they died doing.

Post a reply to: R.I.P. Isle of Man Riders

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