Tomac - Elite Speed, Pedestrian Mental Game

cbuehler767
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cbuehler767 6/4/2017 10:40am
6/4/2017 10:40am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
It's too bad he's not racing the MXGP field on these tracks . He'd win every moto.
And if he was racing the GP series on foreign soil he'd be placing 3rd-6th
jorgechavez 6/4/2017 10:42am
6/4/2017 10:42am
Park and Huck wrote:
Ha... What's he done in the 450 wise guy? That's the point of the thread... if you can't read - which seems to be the case...
Ha...

What's he done in the 450 wise guy? That's the point of the thread... if you can't read - which seems to be the case - please leave your butt hurt Tomac ball swinging for another thread. Vitards... never gets old.

Go post somewhere else, I can't quite handle the level of intellect on display.
Problem with saying that is he has done more in the 450 class than any of his competitors he's racing against now. He's won what like 12 motos in his career? The next best would be Barcia with like 3, or maybe Grant has a few more than Barcia. I'm not saying it's a sure thing Tomac will be champion as he's shown he's prone to mistakes and others have shown they are able to challenge. All I'm saying is I think it's a tall order for someone like Baggett to turn it around from basically a nonfactor since 2013 and become champion in the 450 class in the same year he gets his first win. Not saying it's impossible I just think improbable, I mean he has more of a history of not being able to win titles than Tomac does.
cbuehler767
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cbuehler767 6/4/2017 10:42am
6/4/2017 10:42am
Crush wrote:
You know what is interesting to me? Eli on his Honda was a fucking demon in the ruts. It was better the nastier it was... soft...
You know what is interesting to me?

Eli on his Honda was a fucking demon in the ruts. It was better the nastier it was... soft, long shitty ruts, bumps you name it.

But he washed the front left and right on hardpack.

Now, the Kawi, he's seemingly got ice-racing spiked tyres on hardpack and hasn't been as good in rutty crap.
He was otherworldly in ruts on his Honda 250f. Second moto Unadilla 2011, I believe, an absolute clinic
NorCal 50+
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NorCal 50+ 6/4/2017 11:23am
6/4/2017 11:23am
The expectation is for Tomac to have the same consistency as Dungey- but that is an almost impossible standard to meet.

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SCR
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SCR 6/4/2017 11:31am
6/4/2017 11:31am
Hut wrote:
Hey genius Tomac destroyed both shoulders at Denver two years ago. He has a west title and a national title
Park and Huck wrote:
Ha... What's he done in the 450 wise guy? That's the point of the thread... if you can't read - which seems to be the case...
Ha...

What's he done in the 450 wise guy? That's the point of the thread... if you can't read - which seems to be the case - please leave your butt hurt Tomac ball swinging for another thread. Vitards... never gets old.

Go post somewhere else, I can't quite handle the level of intellect on display.
What's he done on a 450? Seriously ? If I'm not mistaken he's won more 450 MX and SX races than all the other current riders combined. He has soundly beaten every 450 rider in the world over the last few seasons.









spider184 6/4/2017 11:39am
6/4/2017 11:39am
Different motivation now without dungey and roczen, and he clearly suffers so much pressure to handle.. championship has just started though
seth505
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seth505 6/4/2017 11:46am
6/4/2017 11:46am
I think it's clear that people didn't comprehend the OP. No one was trying to say others are straight up faster than Eli in general.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 6/4/2017 11:59am
6/4/2017 11:59am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 12:01pm
Crush wrote:
You know what is interesting to me? Eli on his Honda was a fucking demon in the ruts. It was better the nastier it was... soft...
You know what is interesting to me?

Eli on his Honda was a fucking demon in the ruts. It was better the nastier it was... soft, long shitty ruts, bumps you name it.

But he washed the front left and right on hardpack.

Now, the Kawi, he's seemingly got ice-racing spiked tyres on hardpack and hasn't been as good in rutty crap.
cbuehler767 wrote:
He was otherworldly in ruts on his Honda 250f. Second moto Unadilla 2011, I believe, an absolute clinic
Mixed in with some moto wins . He'd be in contention. Sorry . Quoted the wrong post.
drt410
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drt410 6/4/2017 12:05pm
6/4/2017 12:05pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 12:13pm
Overreactions everywhere. He had a bad race... watching him haul ass past Barcia in the exact same spot he crashed 2 years ago shows hes goin for it. Not to mention Marvin has the red plate so if anything u guys are going against yourselves. By your logic hes the underdog and thats when hes best, but hes been worse since Marvin getting the plate. I say its too early, we dont kno whats really going on behind the scenes, and theres a ton of races left to better determine.

Oh yea and Baggett looks incredible, how cool would it be if it all clicks for him this year and he takes it home.
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drt410 6/4/2017 12:12pm
6/4/2017 12:12pm
fullysicmate wrote:
Tomac is not as good on the kawasaki. Still fast as hell but dont see the same tomac that rode red.
I think he rides noticeable different. I dont know the lap times to compare but he is not the same rider whether thats good or bad idk. If you go back 2 years and watch him on the honda he was way smoother, the way he attacks corners looks much different, and he was scrubbing the HELL out of every jump on the track. Last week i went and watched those first few races and I think Tomac was riding faster than anyone Ive ever seen. He was riding to absolute perfection. Im serious go watch it he was incredible.
DrinkMoreWater 6/4/2017 12:15pm
6/4/2017 12:15pm
My guess is Tomac lives in his head a lot and questions if he can do it or not, he know's hes the fastest, he picked up a huge contract, Kawi expects him to win... That's a lot of things running through an over thinking mind it's a lot of pressure... People may think knowing your the fastest makes the pressure less but it can go the other way Knowing your the fastest means you know what is expected of you and if you don't do it you'll be upset your fans will be upset as well as your team... Some people block that out with ease some don't.

I'll try compare Eli and JS7, both have the best speed, James believes he will win every race, Eli know's he can win every race.
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mccread 6/4/2017 12:51pm
6/4/2017 12:51pm
mccread wrote:
Tomac is incredibly fast. His bad starts and mechanical just let the door open and other riders gained confidence. I don't think it is a weak...
Tomac is incredibly fast. His bad starts and mechanical just let the door open and other riders gained confidence. I don't think it is a weak mental side...he's as tough and motivated as they come.
Park and Huck wrote:
Did you watch Supercross?
Yes, a mechanical cost him the title. And already cost him a lot of points outdoors.
Forty
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Forty 6/4/2017 9:53pm
6/4/2017 9:53pm
Crush wrote:
You know what is interesting to me? Eli on his Honda was a fucking demon in the ruts. It was better the nastier it was... soft...
You know what is interesting to me?

Eli on his Honda was a fucking demon in the ruts. It was better the nastier it was... soft, long shitty ruts, bumps you name it.

But he washed the front left and right on hardpack.

Now, the Kawi, he's seemingly got ice-racing spiked tyres on hardpack and hasn't been as good in rutty crap.
He has trouble with straight ruts. It doesn't help that he takes forever to recover from his tip over.
kage173
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kage173 6/5/2017 7:45am
6/5/2017 7:45am
Park and Huck wrote:
I think it's pretty clear at this juncture that Eli doesn't have that special something mentally to be a consistent title threat. There's just too much...
I think it's pretty clear at this juncture that Eli doesn't have that special something mentally to be a consistent title threat. There's just too much material at this point in time pointing to a deficiency between the ears.

The rides Marv and Baggett are putting in here are as impressive as Eli is underwhelming.

Shocking moto on so many levels. Incredible racing!
Go back and watch Eli's rookie 250 year. He battled for the championship right down to the last lap in supercross. He has been a title threat in almost every championship series he has ever raced. (I said almost)

He does have lapses here and there, but he is almost always a title threat. And that does not happen without mental toughness. We are only 3 races in.
Superdave19
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Superdave19 6/5/2017 7:51am
6/5/2017 7:51am
kage173 wrote:
Go back and watch Eli's rookie 250 year. He battled for the championship right down to the last lap in supercross. He has been a title...
Go back and watch Eli's rookie 250 year. He battled for the championship right down to the last lap in supercross. He has been a title threat in almost every championship series he has ever raced. (I said almost)

He does have lapses here and there, but he is almost always a title threat. And that does not happen without mental toughness. We are only 3 races in.
This ^^^


He'll be in the hunt at the end.. (pending no more mechanicals)
Samuel
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Samuel 6/5/2017 8:55am
6/5/2017 8:55am
Gandorlf wrote:
Never understood why people are so keen to write Tomac off. Everytime he has a bit of a bobble it's like all his wins are suddenly...
Never understood why people are so keen to write Tomac off. Everytime he has a bit of a bobble it's like all his wins are suddenly forgotten and he doesn't have what it takes.
Mr. Knobby wrote:
It's because they are stupid. Meanwhile, a guy who has been mid-pack for years, suddenly has one break-through ride and they are ready to crown him...
It's because they are stupid.
Meanwhile, a guy who has been mid-pack for years, suddenly has one break-through ride and they are ready to crown him king. They don't even see the contradictions in their own posts.
This generation has no attention span, can't remember anything past the last race, like dogs with squirrels.
Park and Huck wrote:
Actually.... The OP is about precisely the opposite - Tomac's body of work when the pressure to perform in on, when the Championships are on the...
Actually....

The OP is about precisely the opposite - Tomac's body of work when the pressure to perform in on, when the Championships are on the line. He's shown repeatedly an inability to handle the exact situations that have made Dungey, Villopoto, Ricky, Chad, MC and the rest legends.

I'm not sure anyone is "crowning" Blake... the reality is Blake won a hell of a Championship in 2012, fought like hell in 2011 and lost it to Dean, and has dealt with enormous injury issues on a very difficult part of the body for the last years. His ride yesterday - for me at least - is representative of what he can do. Now, same question applies to him as to Tomac: Can he do it if/when he's got the red plate? With luck we'll find out because that will just mean the season will be even better.

Marv has two World Championships, I'm pretty sure Marv can handle the pressure, as he's showing atm. Eli.... the same can not be said at this point in time. Perhaps that will change, but he might just go down in history as one of the guys with Elite skill and speed who couldn't win the big ones.

Roczen must be sitting at home losing his mind - he'd be destroying this Championship by now.
I don't think we can say for sure Marvin is better at handling the pressure than Eli. In the US, where Marvin has been since 2011, Eli has more titles. I wouldn't count out either one, or Bagget for that matter.
Acidreamer
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Acidreamer 6/5/2017 9:02am
6/5/2017 9:02am
SCR wrote:
I don't know what races you guys are watching. Last year Tomac comes back from injury on a new bike and is the only one to...
I don't know what races you guys are watching.

Last year Tomac comes back from injury on a new bike and is the only one to race with and beat Roczen. Then while Roczen is sipping umbrella drinks and talking smack on twitter, Tomac puts on a clinic at the USGPs.

This year he wins the most SX races and throws down some of the most exciting laps and come from behind ridesanyone has seen in awhile.

At hangtown he comes from behind and goes 1-1 like a boss. Glenn Helen he came from about 13th to 2nd and was eating those guys up fast. 2nd moto his pulls in with locked brake goes back out lap and a half down and gets it back into the points in 19th with no front brake. I was at Glenn Helen and Tomac handled the pressure like a champion and salvaged what he could out of a bad situation and got a few points.

This week he has a mediocre ( for him ) first moto and come back for a second. Pretty damn good for an off week.

I see a guy who is motivated, mentally tough, confident, handles pressure , and is willing to hang it out. And does it better than anyone else recently.
Perfectly written. People are so willing to swing from rider to rider and write people off its crazy. Everyone thinks bagget is the best thing since sliced bread after 1 race out of all the ones hes had since he was good on 250s. Let eli come out of the slump.
Forty
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Forty 6/5/2017 9:12am
6/5/2017 9:12am
SCR wrote:
I don't know what races you guys are watching. Last year Tomac comes back from injury on a new bike and is the only one to...
I don't know what races you guys are watching.

Last year Tomac comes back from injury on a new bike and is the only one to race with and beat Roczen. Then while Roczen is sipping umbrella drinks and talking smack on twitter, Tomac puts on a clinic at the USGPs.

This year he wins the most SX races and throws down some of the most exciting laps and come from behind ridesanyone has seen in awhile.

At hangtown he comes from behind and goes 1-1 like a boss. Glenn Helen he came from about 13th to 2nd and was eating those guys up fast. 2nd moto his pulls in with locked brake goes back out lap and a half down and gets it back into the points in 19th with no front brake. I was at Glenn Helen and Tomac handled the pressure like a champion and salvaged what he could out of a bad situation and got a few points.

This week he has a mediocre ( for him ) first moto and come back for a second. Pretty damn good for an off week.

I see a guy who is motivated, mentally tough, confident, handles pressure , and is willing to hang it out. And does it better than anyone else recently.
Acidreamer wrote:
Perfectly written. People are so willing to swing from rider to rider and write people off its crazy. Everyone thinks bagget is the best thing since...
Perfectly written. People are so willing to swing from rider to rider and write people off its crazy. Everyone thinks bagget is the best thing since sliced bread after 1 race out of all the ones hes had since he was good on 250s. Let eli come out of the slump.
Who has written him off?

Bagget rode a killer race and at one point had 4 seconds a lap on everyone else, he should be congratulated.

4 seconds, that's not an accident.

Eli is not in a slump, he is being raced by other fast guys that are preparing week in and out to beat him, it's going to happen that Eli gets beat.

24 - 0 was never going to happen but IMO Eli is still the favorite to win this series.

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jorgechavez 6/5/2017 2:48pm
6/5/2017 2:48pm
Forty wrote:
Who has written him off? Bagget rode a killer race and at one point had 4 seconds a lap on everyone else, he should be congratulated...
Who has written him off?

Bagget rode a killer race and at one point had 4 seconds a lap on everyone else, he should be congratulated.

4 seconds, that's not an accident.

Eli is not in a slump, he is being raced by other fast guys that are preparing week in and out to beat him, it's going to happen that Eli gets beat.

24 - 0 was never going to happen but IMO Eli is still the favorite to win this series.
A lot of people here have wrote him off saying he doesn't have the mental ability to get it done but they act as if everyone he's racing against has a long history of sealing the deal. It's like some people on here think being in the title fight and not winning is a worse performance than not being in the title fight at all. It's great logic.
lostboy819 6/5/2017 2:53pm
6/5/2017 2:53pm
NorCal 50+ wrote:
The expectation is for Tomac to have the same consistency as Dungey- but that is an almost impossible standard to meet.
Yep, Dungey was a machine and new how to score points and win championships. He didn't need to win every race but was right there all the time.
Forty
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Forty 6/5/2017 3:13pm
6/5/2017 3:13pm
NorCal 50+ wrote:
The expectation is for Tomac to have the same consistency as Dungey- but that is an almost impossible standard to meet.
lostboy819 wrote:
Yep, Dungey was a machine and new how to score points and win championships. He didn't need to win every race but was right there all...
Yep, Dungey was a machine and new how to score points and win championships. He didn't need to win every race but was right there all the time.
We are realizing just how good Dungey was at this. This shit ain't easy!
TDeath21
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TDeath21 6/5/2017 3:38pm
6/5/2017 3:38pm
Is he mentally weak? Hell no. By top tier rider standards, however, he is mentally weak. Different standards apply there. He is a top tier rider, so he will be held to higher standards and criticized accordingly.
shaffstall721 6/5/2017 4:38pm
6/5/2017 4:38pm
People will constantly deny it but he looked way better on the Honda. He was comfortably going way faster than everyone else. He used to be way better than everyone else in rough and rutty situations. Now he struggles big time.

Who has done good on a green bike since RV?

Desalle doesn't look near as good on the bike either.
Forty
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Forty 6/5/2017 4:42pm
6/5/2017 4:42pm
NorCal 50+ wrote:
The expectation is for Tomac to have the same consistency as Dungey- but that is an almost impossible standard to meet.
lostboy819 wrote:
Yep, Dungey was a machine and new how to score points and win championships. He didn't need to win every race but was right there all...
Yep, Dungey was a machine and new how to score points and win championships. He didn't need to win every race but was right there all the time.
We are realizing just how good Dungey was at this. This shit ain't easy!
bsharkey
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bsharkey 6/5/2017 4:48pm
6/5/2017 4:48pm
Did anyone notice how tomacs bike was climbing out of the ruts early and it was really screwing him over look like a bike setup issue to me but I'm Just a Nobody
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PabstBR11 6/5/2017 5:30pm
6/5/2017 5:30pm
mccread wrote:
Tomac is incredibly fast. His bad starts and mechanical just let the door open and other riders gained confidence. I don't think it is a weak...
Tomac is incredibly fast. His bad starts and mechanical just let the door open and other riders gained confidence. I don't think it is a weak mental side...he's as tough and motivated as they come.
Park and Huck wrote:
Did you watch Supercross?
Yep we all did. Tomac was just god awful with the most wins and almost winning the title. I don't know why factory Kawi even keeps him on the team. Minus Dungey, how many other guys had wins?
PRO MX COLLECTIONS 6/6/2017 3:15am
6/6/2017 3:15am
Gandorlf wrote:
Never understood why people are so keen to write Tomac off. Everytime he has a bit of a bobble it's like all his wins are suddenly...
Never understood why people are so keen to write Tomac off. Everytime he has a bit of a bobble it's like all his wins are suddenly forgotten and he doesn't have what it takes.
Mr. Knobby wrote:
It's because they are stupid. Meanwhile, a guy who has been mid-pack for years, suddenly has one break-through ride and they are ready to crown him...
It's because they are stupid.
Meanwhile, a guy who has been mid-pack for years, suddenly has one break-through ride and they are ready to crown him king. They don't even see the contradictions in their own posts.
This generation has no attention span, can't remember anything past the last race, like dogs with squirrels.
Like a dog with squirrels, i got to keep that one handy. What did you say again, i FORGOT
PRO MX COLLECTIONS 6/6/2017 3:35am
6/6/2017 3:35am
Hut wrote:
Hey genius Tomac destroyed both shoulders at Denver two years ago. He has a west title and a national title
Park and Huck wrote:
Ha... What's he done in the 450 wise guy? That's the point of the thread... if you can't read - which seems to be the case...
Ha...

What's he done in the 450 wise guy? That's the point of the thread... if you can't read - which seems to be the case - please leave your butt hurt Tomac ball swinging for another thread. Vitards... never gets old.

Go post somewhere else, I can't quite handle the level of intellect on display.
Hut wrote:
No ball swinging here dipshit. Bagget beat him fair and square yesterday afternoon. Eli Tomac won what 9 SX events while trying to take down Dungey...
No ball swinging here dipshit. Bagget beat him fair and square yesterday afternoon. Eli Tomac won what 9 SX events while trying to take down Dungey, not too shabby. Let's see how the season plays out before we go shitting all over the guy.
Just like the dog and squirrels comment this generation can't separate their emotions with their potty mouths (park and huck)!
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Motofinne 6/6/2017 3:45am
6/6/2017 3:45am
TDeath21 wrote:
Is he mentally weak? Hell no. By top tier rider standards, however, he is mentally weak. Different standards apply there. He is a top tier rider...
Is he mentally weak? Hell no. By top tier rider standards, however, he is mentally weak. Different standards apply there. He is a top tier rider, so he will be held to higher standards and criticized accordingly.
I agree and just like you mention, everything is relative. We compare Tomac to riders like Dungey, Roczen and RV and in that category he falls short mentally(at least it seems so).
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 6/6/2017 4:14am
6/6/2017 4:14am
Park and Huck wrote:
I think it's pretty clear at this juncture that Eli doesn't have that special something mentally to be a consistent title threat. There's just too much...
I think it's pretty clear at this juncture that Eli doesn't have that special something mentally to be a consistent title threat. There's just too much material at this point in time pointing to a deficiency between the ears.

The rides Marv and Baggett are putting in here are as impressive as Eli is underwhelming.

Shocking moto on so many levels. Incredible racing!
What a dumb fucking post. He tipped over in a deep rut, it happens. I guess you forgot that two years ago Tomac had a very serious shoulder injury at this track. Do you think maybe this was in the back of his mind the whole weekend? He's stoked to put this stupid rutted track behind him. I'll bet any of you dumb fucks Tomac wins this title by a mile.

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