STUPID STUPID EMT'S...PISSES ME OFF

Sonny
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Sonny 2/9/2009 8:54am
2/9/2009 8:54am
mx918 wrote:
OMG I have never seen a neck folded like that before.

Jeremy's head was bouncing around while they were running him off the track. Ridiculous.
I was thinking the same thing. Or when the bouncing mile trot was taking place, I cringed thinking about a broken rib. A punctured lung would be inevitable. They weren't to delicate.
over the hill
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over the hill 2/9/2009 8:55am
2/9/2009 8:55am
Tiki wrote:
I just watched the clip and I cant understand what your problem is? Chalk it up to your ignorance, anger? Dont know? They saw the trauma...
I just watched the clip and I cant understand what your problem is? Chalk it up to your ignorance, anger? Dont know?

They saw the trauma unfold before their eyes. Knew what they were dealing with. Gently aligned his arms and legs, rolled him onto the backboard with head stabilization already on it. Strapped him to the backboard and GOT THE HELL OUT OF THERE.

That's it. So you can complain about the EMT's/MEDICS, but it appears from this side of YOUTUBE they did a great job. Did you want them to, I don't know? Sit around and asses that he may not be breathing? That would be a good thing huh. Watching him turn blue like his bike Fuck with his helmet strap?

Tell us Dave, in your wisdom what are they doing incorrectly? I mean you are a current ALS card holder Right?
I tend to agree with Tiki. The injury is absolutely brutal.
Unfortunately, 99.9% of the damage to Lusk was done by the time the EMTs got to him.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 2/9/2009 8:56am
2/9/2009 8:56am
It is a concern when these riders go oversaes to compete either FMX or SX/MX some countries just do not have the medical knowledge we have here in the states and the riders run such a greater risk of getting bad treatment ....that sure was a hard hit
bultokid
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bultokid 2/9/2009 8:57am
2/9/2009 8:57am
out of respect for the Lusk family I refuse to say anything at this time except offer prayer.

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drmarkr
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drmarkr 2/9/2009 9:01am
2/9/2009 9:01am
Tiki wrote:
I just watched the clip and I cant understand what your problem is? Chalk it up to your ignorance, anger? Dont know? They saw the trauma...
I just watched the clip and I cant understand what your problem is? Chalk it up to your ignorance, anger? Dont know?

They saw the trauma unfold before their eyes. Knew what they were dealing with. Gently aligned his arms and legs, rolled him onto the backboard with head stabilization already on it. Strapped him to the backboard and GOT THE HELL OUT OF THERE.

That's it. So you can complain about the EMT's/MEDICS, but it appears from this side of YOUTUBE they did a great job. Did you want them to, I don't know? Sit around and asses that he may not be breathing? That would be a good thing huh. Watching him turn blue like his bike Fuck with his helmet strap?

Tell us Dave, in your wisdom what are they doing incorrectly? I mean you are a current ALS card holder Right?
over the hill wrote:
I tend to agree with Tiki. The injury is absolutely brutal. Unfortunately, 99.9% of the damage to Lusk was done by the time the EMTs got...
I tend to agree with Tiki. The injury is absolutely brutal.
Unfortunately, 99.9% of the damage to Lusk was done by the time the EMTs got to him.
You're way wrong. I suggest a First Aid class....or if you're really motivated a basic EMT class.
Oldmotoguy
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Oldmotoguy 2/9/2009 9:03am
2/9/2009 9:03am
thats horrible..insane..
Tiki
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Tiki 2/9/2009 9:05am
2/9/2009 9:05am
drmarkr wrote:
Tiki, do you have your EMT card? Some of your post sounds like you might. That video could almost be a training video for how not...
Tiki, do you have your EMT card? Some of your post sounds like you might. That video could almost be a training video for how not to assess/stabilize a potential spinal injury.

It was terrible....
Yes, I hold a EMT Card, been working in trauma since 1999. I attend classes bi-annually on the nature of Traffic Accidents with respect to extraction.

The only change I see different from the United States is that he was rolled a little violently.
I imagine the adrenaline was a little intense seeing Jeremy fold his neck in front of them. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, they were looking at his spine being broken, airway compromised and breathing not happening.

Thinking that do you care about the already broken neck or the fact he isn't breathing. That would be a classic load and get the hell to the doctors...

I wasn't there, I didn't know what his circulation was, what his breathing was, did he have a patent airway. Remove any or all of those and everyone starts to freak out.
FLvet
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FLvet 2/9/2009 9:12am
2/9/2009 9:12am
I'll take Doc over some stoned snowboarder any day.
drmarkr
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drmarkr 2/9/2009 9:15am
2/9/2009 9:15am
Can't load and run until you do your ABC's....and his neck/spine should have been stabilized right there after doing/establishing that.

Again, that was atrocious. Very little to defend about the way it was handled....
Tiki
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Tiki 2/9/2009 9:16am
2/9/2009 9:16am
Still no one has said what was wrong with it. What is the challenge? Because all of us are in the ring making the decisions.
88sdad
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88sdad 2/9/2009 9:27am
2/9/2009 9:27am
Tiki, you are also a Wildland Fire Fighter, right?
testuser
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testuser 2/9/2009 9:32am
2/9/2009 9:32am
Tiki, seriously Bro, are you stoned right now?
FLvet
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FLvet 2/9/2009 9:33am
2/9/2009 9:33am
Tiki is three credits short of being Dr. McDreamy.
todder
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todder 2/9/2009 9:33am
2/9/2009 9:33am
bultokid wrote:
out of respect for the Lusk family I refuse to say anything at this time except offer prayer.
X2.
alphado
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alphado 2/9/2009 9:38am
2/9/2009 9:38am
I just hope he ends up ok.
Foster576
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Foster576 2/9/2009 9:41am
2/9/2009 9:41am
Im no EMT or Doctor or anything thats for sure and I could even see how horrible they treated that situation. They were rushing way too much. I mean come on atleast stablize the neck before rolling him onto the backboard and they way the were running out with him bouncing around on it was ridiculous.

My prayers are with him and his family!
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flarider 2/9/2009 9:41am
2/9/2009 9:41am
drmarkr wrote:
Can't load and run until you do your ABC's....and his neck/spine should have been stabilized right there after doing/establishing that. Again, that was atrocious. Very little...
Can't load and run until you do your ABC's....and his neck/spine should have been stabilized right there after doing/establishing that.

Again, that was atrocious. Very little to defend about the way it was handled....
I'll go with what the LICENSED MEDICAL PHYSICIAN says.

I'll also answer the question.

A) The first guy did not evaluate the condition of his arm prior to moving it to his side. He just grabbed and moved it.
B ) the loading onto the back board was abrupt and clumsy without doing a proper eval within the time allotted. You cannot do a proper eval in 3 seconds.
C) They should've left his helmet alone and taped it to the board to maintain head/neck stability.
D ) Even with the head supports in place, they were loose and his head was not properly secured.
E) The running and the bouncing it caused was unacceptable. A brisk walk would've sufficed and reduced any possible further injury due to the bouncing run.

The whole thing was haphazard and amateurish, and while I may not be an EMT or paramedic, I have had advanced first aid training and worked at a local track for quite a few years and was always the first guy to the incident...anyone who was ever at Pepsi Air Dania on a practice night can attest to this. I know what I am doing and I know what's right and what's wrong, and there is a lot wrong in that video.
Shimokitazawa 2/9/2009 9:42am
2/9/2009 9:42am
bultokid wrote:
out of respect for the Lusk family I refuse to say anything at this time except offer prayer.
todder wrote:
X2.
this discussion has nothing to do with the family. it relates to the first aid given to the rider. Of course, I assume everyone here has concern for the family, even those of us that don't know them personally.

if you have an opinion or any thoughts, throw them out...it's a discussion forum.

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firemedic301
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firemedic301 2/9/2009 9:42am
2/9/2009 9:42am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:24pm
Tiki wrote:
Yes, I hold a EMT Card, been working in trauma since 1999. I attend classes bi-annually on the nature of Traffic Accidents with respect to extraction...
Yes, I hold a EMT Card, been working in trauma since 1999. I attend classes bi-annually on the nature of Traffic Accidents with respect to extraction.

The only change I see different from the United States is that he was rolled a little violently.
I imagine the adrenaline was a little intense seeing Jeremy fold his neck in front of them. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, they were looking at his spine being broken, airway compromised and breathing not happening.

Thinking that do you care about the already broken neck or the fact he isn't breathing. That would be a classic load and get the hell to the doctors...

I wasn't there, I didn't know what his circulation was, what his breathing was, did he have a patent airway. Remove any or all of those and everyone starts to freak out.
Sorry for this being my first post but, I have lurked for a while. I agree and am impressed with Tiki's assessment. I wasn't there but it looked OK up to the point they started running with him. Thank god one of them didn't trip and fall.

I am a Career Paramedic Fireman for the City of San Bernardino in Cali, and I have also worked for years on and off for companies that cover sporting events, motocross, supercross, CORE truck racing ect. These events are ran by some people that sometimes get into the mind set that "GET THEM OFF THE TRACK, THE SHOW MUST GO ON" and that sucks to be involved with when something bad happens.

Now for my take on EMS outside of the US. It is hit or miss but, no where near what we have in the US.

As for signing out after a crash on a liability waiver. At a track, WE as the Medics can only take somebody that requests transport if they are "Alert and Oriented" and answer all our questions appropriately (WE can not just take somebody against their will - it would be "False Imprisonment".) Now if they can't answer our basic questions we are MANDATED to transport to the Hosp and if they don't want to go we can have law enforcement place the person under a 5150 hold and take them against their will.

Sorry this ran on, but I am way willing to answer any questions regarding event EMS.

NOW let the roasting begin, and I will drink my 12 oz can of STFU HOPE AND PRAY HE MAKE A FULL RECOVERY - PRAYERS SENT
ShoujoKakumei 2/9/2009 9:43am
2/9/2009 9:43am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:24pm
I can't see enough in that video to really judge what the EMTs were doing, as far as removing the helmet anyway. I see a bunch of folks crouched on the ground and then one of them tosses a helmet out of the circle. I've never attended a motorcycle crash serious enough to warrant removing the helmet; my protocols were always not to do it unless the patient had a compromised airway or needed breathing assistance. I was never good at the procedure in practical skills class though. (There's a reason I don't work as a track medic.)


Doesn't seem like his head was that well-secured to the board, but it's a Youtube video, I can't tell so much. It does seem like there was a bit too much movement of the head to be taped/strapped down properly. I can't imagine making a judgement call that the 15 seconds it would take to do that would be too long to wait before picking up the board and running like hell, but then I wasn't there.
madmike9729
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madmike9729 2/9/2009 10:02am
2/9/2009 10:02am
With a crash that bad you could never avoid injury completely but it seems to me that if he had been wearing a Leatt, his head would not have been able to roll like that and the neck injury would have been less severe (relatively speaking of course). Therapy and being able to live without the prospect of riding again would be better than being an invalid or dead.
Bob693
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Bob693 2/9/2009 10:10am
2/9/2009 10:10am
I would love to see a doctor travel with the fmx guys, but they aren't on a specific series for them to go to. They have events all around the world put on by different promoters many times on the same weekend. I hate when my brother goes to some of the places he does to do shows. I tell him not to throw his crazy tricks when he goes to a place like Columbia. His worst injury was a head injury he sustained in Memphis and it was another rider there that probably saved his life. He was knocked out and the EMTs were freaking out because he wasn't breathing and turning blue. Thankfully a friend of his undid his chin strap so he could breath again. It took him over a year to recover.
motodog621
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motodog621 2/9/2009 10:12am
2/9/2009 10:12am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:24pm
drmarkr wrote:
Can't load and run until you do your ABC's....and his neck/spine should have been stabilized right there after doing/establishing that. Again, that was atrocious. Very little...
Can't load and run until you do your ABC's....and his neck/spine should have been stabilized right there after doing/establishing that.

Again, that was atrocious. Very little to defend about the way it was handled....
Doc, you are 100% right- ABC's come first. A is AIRWAY- and if you don't have that, your patient is going to die. As you said, c-spine comes AFTER that. If you don't have the ability fix airway problems (not even sure these guys were EMT's?) everything else becomes secondary and you get him to someone who can. As a paramedic/firefighter, I have the luxury of fixing those problems on scene- I don't know that the people in the video did. I'm not defending their actions- I'm just trying to point out what might have been happening. Let's use this a a call to get better trained and equipped people at ALL events, so everyone is safer. Prayers sent to Jeremy & his family- that video was tough to watch.

Blake
Larry
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Larry 2/9/2009 10:24am
2/9/2009 10:24am
flarider wrote:
I'll go with what the LICENSED MEDICAL PHYSICIAN says. I'll also answer the question. A) The first guy did not evaluate the condition of his arm...
I'll go with what the LICENSED MEDICAL PHYSICIAN says.

I'll also answer the question.

A) The first guy did not evaluate the condition of his arm prior to moving it to his side. He just grabbed and moved it.
B ) the loading onto the back board was abrupt and clumsy without doing a proper eval within the time allotted. You cannot do a proper eval in 3 seconds.
C) They should've left his helmet alone and taped it to the board to maintain head/neck stability.
D ) Even with the head supports in place, they were loose and his head was not properly secured.
E) The running and the bouncing it caused was unacceptable. A brisk walk would've sufficed and reduced any possible further injury due to the bouncing run.

The whole thing was haphazard and amateurish, and while I may not be an EMT or paramedic, I have had advanced first aid training and worked at a local track for quite a few years and was always the first guy to the incident...anyone who was ever at Pepsi Air Dania on a practice night can attest to this. I know what I am doing and I know what's right and what's wrong, and there is a lot wrong in that video.
So you agree with over the hill?
flarider
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flarider 2/9/2009 10:26am
2/9/2009 10:26am
Larry wrote:
So you agree with over the hill?
Don't EVEN know how you came to that
Larry
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Larry 2/9/2009 10:28am
2/9/2009 10:28am
you said you were going with the licensed medical physician.
flarider
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flarider 2/9/2009 10:30am
2/9/2009 10:30am
Dr Mark R

Larry
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Larry 2/9/2009 10:37am
2/9/2009 10:37am
flarider wrote:
Dr Mark R

just tuggin your chain a little Dave., over the hill is a doc also and a good one.
Seen him administer first aid several times at the track, even to me on a couple of occasions.
drmarkr
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drmarkr 2/9/2009 10:50am
2/9/2009 10:50am
In that case I withdraw my suggestion he take a first aid class....!!

But I'd be happy to dialogue off line with him about the scoop and run on the video.
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Guzzler 2/9/2009 10:54am
2/9/2009 10:54am
mx295 wrote:
the fmx guys need someone like doc bodnar to travel with them to these out of the country events.. and they would have one of the...
the fmx guys need someone like doc bodnar to travel with them to these out of the country events.. and they would have one of the helmet extracting devices bodnar and his crew uses.... so things like this wont happen
x's 2 I don't think that I could watch that vid again. I only could watch a little of it. Not good. I really hope that he is OK. my thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.

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