Sandbaggers!

Just left our local series opener. Proud of my kid, it just really sucks that kids coming up have to deal with sorry sandbaggers... When your local sandbagger gets stomped by an out of town sandbagger it is really bad lol! I am talking C class here. I may understand if money was involved, but one would think a rider may get tired of winning C class trophies... My son cant wait to move up, he wants to better himself.
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c0ncEpT
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2/26/2017 2:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2017 2:53pm
I honestly think a lot of it is really fast mini kids move up to C class and lay waste to the field when they should really go straight to B class
Starcrossed
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2/26/2017 2:54pm
In before somebody blames Lorettas.
MxKing809
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Fantasy
2/26/2017 3:14pm
In before somebody blames Lorettas.
Damn it.... missed my shot.

When Loretta's produces factory rides for C riders, how can you not point the finger?
2/26/2017 3:16pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2017 3:17pm
In before somebody blames Lorettas.
That has always been the claim. I will give it to my promoter he tried to counter act this by taken out the C and B classes and simply RENAMED them to Junior and Intermediate. That way kids didnt get hurt for running B locally!
Like I said this was the first race and if anything I think it may have made it worse, I give him props for trying. I hope things mellow out as usual after the first race.

The Shop

2/26/2017 3:17pm
In my experience in the c class, I saw kids ride it for 3+ years continuously winning. Found out they were collecting trophies and contingency money. It was pretty frustrating that they never moved up or got moved up by any of the promoters. They finally moved up to intermediate but neither one went anywhere from there. I don't even see them in any results anymore.
ge217
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2/26/2017 3:38pm
Every year, every class has a sandbagger right? Someone has to win, someone has to get second place and so on and so on all the way to last place.... Im not putting your kid down in any way, shape, or form. Everyone starts from somewhere, some are more talented then others. Just because little Johnny came from out of town to win the race doesn't make him a sandbagger. Just makes him one of the front runners of the class. Give the racer some respect. IF said racer has raced B class and has dropped down then ok. Im just curious, when your son does move up in class skill level, will you not call the front runners of the class sandbaggers? Or will he magically be in a class that everyone is the same speed now allowing for zero "sandbaggers?" OR what if he does become a front runner, ( Which I really hope that he does) and people start calling him a sandbagger now?
rrjr
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2/26/2017 4:19pm
There are always going to be riders in a class who are faster than the rest because they've worked hard and have talent.
Usually these riders are getting ready to move to the next higher class.
The problem is with riders who race in the lower class beating everyone by a wide margin while scrubbing every jump on the track. Then when these riders near the point total that would force them into the next higher class they switch to "open" class races that aren't advancement classes.
Sandbagging riders will never go away because most of the promoters won't do any thing about them. Even when provided with evidence nothing is done.

Last year at the big amateur race at Pala that was streamed live over the internet they interviewed the winner of the C class after he also won the B/C open class. They asked him how he liked racing with the higher skilled intermediate riders and he said "I race at Glen Helen with the intermediate class all the time so I'm used to it" No one said anything about it and he still races in the C class at all the major races.
CrGuy2T
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2/26/2017 4:30pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2017 4:31pm
Well the C class is not really a beginner class anymore. Those kids are hauling. There is a difference betweenl a loca c class rider and a national c class rider. Most of the time if you stay away from AMA sanctioned events you will just have your local races and local kids. AMA sanctioned events seem to be where a lot of the faster kids come reguardless of the area. It builds their resume and the contingency stuff is usually better at AMA events. Takes a while to actually understand what's going on but it's just how it goes.
F.B
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2/26/2017 4:33pm
I blame Canada.
StretchASU
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2/26/2017 5:28pm
Welcome to any C class. We saw it in NCHSA last year. Class leaders running avg mph's that would have them in the top 5 of B on a regular basis.
Yep
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2/26/2017 6:18pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2017 6:18pm
Always told my son " you're only as good as your competition". Always had his butt whooped but it was a learning experience looking forward to moving on to the European big pond rather than king of the local kids.
ab
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2/26/2017 7:24pm
I blame Mexico.... not really. Local races are always going to have sandbaggers like it or not
2/26/2017 8:04pm
Cant they point out the national top 10 after Lorettes? I know it's not the same but that's kinda how the system works in Belgium. This rule is applied for everyone.
The top 10 go basically automatically 5th-10th is depending on the amount of time in the class though. Iff you're a Rookie in the class you're allowed to stay another year.
109
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2/26/2017 8:21pm
That's what you get for having an elective A, B, C class structure.
Age and capacity should be the only way classes are split.
KDXGarage
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2/27/2017 12:03am
It is common. I raced in the D class with "jump restrictions" such as no triples and no doing the "big jump" at the track. It was not that if you could do it if allowed, then step up to C, it was always don't do it. I was thrilled to see one youngster in an after race practice downside every big jump and triple smoothly. He had just finished THIRD in D class. He wasn't even the winner.
2/27/2017 12:10am
Down here once you earn a grading on your motorcycling license eg. A grade you can no longer race in a lower graded class I believe.
Mr. Info
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2/27/2017 4:14am
That's the tracks job to advance riders. That is where transponders work best by having proof they would run in the top 3 of the next class.
steveada
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2/27/2017 4:16am
As someone else said, there is a big difference between local C class and national C class. Because of the rules someone can't run B classes at local races and then compete in C class for the big races. The top guys in C class are fast, but if they are doing well at the sanctioned races or go to LL's they will be moved up. I don't have any respect for the kids that are purposely counting points and doing things to keep themselves from pointing out, but otherwise if they are legitimately racing C class and don't get enough points to be advanced, they aren't sandbagging, they are just faster then your average local C class rider.
2/27/2017 4:38am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2017 4:38am
Well our local sandbagger has won 250C championship 2 years in a row. Also won 450C on a 250. Guess what he ran yesterday, 250C and 450C. I thought to myself, going for a 3peat huh? You can't win but 2 championships on a 250 in the pros lol!
Team Ideal
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2/27/2017 5:10am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
Well our local sandbagger has won 250C championship 2 years in a row. Also won 450C on a 250. Guess what he ran yesterday, 250C and...
Well our local sandbagger has won 250C championship 2 years in a row. Also won 450C on a 250. Guess what he ran yesterday, 250C and 450C. I thought to myself, going for a 3peat huh? You can't win but 2 championships on a 250 in the pros lol!
is this a non AMA track? if he won the championships I'd assume his average finish would have his RVP high enough to get automatically bumped up to B. if it's non AMA it's up to the promoter to bump him. why anyone would want to win the C class championship three years in a row is beyond me. almost like the year we went to Ponca and they were interviewing the C class champion and he mentioned he had been racing for 9 years lol
JSmith
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2/27/2017 5:26am


JSmith
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2/27/2017 5:28am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
Well our local sandbagger has won 250C championship 2 years in a row. Also won 450C on a 250. Guess what he ran yesterday, 250C and...
Well our local sandbagger has won 250C championship 2 years in a row. Also won 450C on a 250. Guess what he ran yesterday, 250C and 450C. I thought to myself, going for a 3peat huh? You can't win but 2 championships on a 250 in the pros lol!
FAIL!

He might be winning, but he is really losing.
RbR
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2/27/2017 5:48am
Let me float this one out there ...

Rename the classes. Shit-can C, B, A classifications and replace with:

* Shitty Rider Class
* Not Quite Good Class
* Pretty Good, but No Pro, Class
Fourth_Floor
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2/27/2017 5:50am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
Well our local sandbagger has won 250C championship 2 years in a row. Also won 450C on a 250. Guess what he ran yesterday, 250C and...
Well our local sandbagger has won 250C championship 2 years in a row. Also won 450C on a 250. Guess what he ran yesterday, 250C and 450C. I thought to myself, going for a 3peat huh? You can't win but 2 championships on a 250 in the pros lol!
JSmith wrote:
FAIL!

He might be winning, but he is really losing.
Agreed, if you win the 250C championship once then you should move up. I was never much of a racer, loved riding mx tracks and stuff for fun but just never had the money to pursue anything with racing, that and no matter how good of shape I was in I always got horrible arm pump (even get it playing guitar). Before I had my kids I decided that I was going to race a couple local races just for fun and since I haven't race in close to 10 years I signed up for open C class at a non AMA race. Both races I sucked ass off the gate but got into the lead and had a nice gap before laying the bike over from arm pump in both races. I remember feeling kind of embarrassed that I was raced C class b/c I was able to come from being buried off the start to getting in front of everyone and pulling away until I wrecked so I decided I was going to move myself up to B class after that race. The first B class race I did was an AMA race and I got annihilated hahahah!!!! But I felt a lot better about racing with guys that could smoke my ass then racing a field I could let get a head start and still be able to get out front within the first 2 laps. It is baffling to to me how this kid your are describing doesn't feel like an idiot or any amount of embarrassment? I swear there is no humility these days.
c0ncEpT
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2/27/2017 6:06am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
Well our local sandbagger has won 250C championship 2 years in a row. Also won 450C on a 250. Guess what he ran yesterday, 250C and...
Well our local sandbagger has won 250C championship 2 years in a row. Also won 450C on a 250. Guess what he ran yesterday, 250C and 450C. I thought to myself, going for a 3peat huh? You can't win but 2 championships on a 250 in the pros lol!
Is it not AMA sanctioned? Your district should be keeping an eye on those things.

Both the Open C and 250C winners in the D14 got advancement letters this year.

I race C class locally and hover around the top 5 most of the time. When I race national events (Baja Brawl) I'm typically around 17th-22nd on a 40 man gate. The top 5 guys are usually so far gone I'm sure with another lap or 2 I would be lapped.
2/27/2017 6:55am
Moens_Andy wrote:
Cant they point out the national top 10 after Lorettes? I know it's not the same but that's kinda how the system works in Belgium. This...
Cant they point out the national top 10 after Lorettes? I know it's not the same but that's kinda how the system works in Belgium. This rule is applied for everyone.
The top 10 go basically automatically 5th-10th is depending on the amount of time in the class though. Iff you're a Rookie in the class you're allowed to stay another year.
I *think* if you make it to Loretta's in a C class then you can't race C class anymore. But I'm no expert on this stuff.

Our local 250C kids are ridiculously fast. By way of example, when I started racing again after a 15 year break I entered 250C and got my ass handed to me. The next year I race the 40B class and sometimes win it, then managed to make it to Loretta's in the 40+ class. I guarantee I would still have my ass handed to me if I could drop down to the 250C class. Those kids are definitely not what I would call beginners lol!

Cheers
Simon
potatoflake
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2/27/2017 7:08am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2017 7:10am
RbR wrote:
Let me float this one out there ... Rename the classes. Shit-can C, B, A classifications and replace with: * Shitty Rider Class * Not Quite...
Let me float this one out there ...

Rename the classes. Shit-can C, B, A classifications and replace with:

* Shitty Rider Class
* Not Quite Good Class
* Pretty Good, but No Pro, Class
There used to be beginner novice intermediate expert and pro

i feel like adding that expert class would kinda make basically make the intermediate class the fast C class idk

Then the really fast kids that should be running pro at the local races anyways can sign up as expert

It's no secret that the really fast am guys treat these local races like a sort of practice anyways
2/27/2017 7:19am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2017 7:21am
Non sanctioned race series! Like I said the promoter was trying to help the situation. Hoping the faster kids could run
B class and not get penalized for AMA events. A is still A class and D is still D.

Yes, once you enter a C class at Lorettas you can not run AMA C class again after that calendar year. We have a friend that made it to 250C last year and was C eligible to then end of 2016. As of 1-1-17 he is officially a "B" rider....
2/27/2017 7:23am
Moens_Andy wrote:
Cant they point out the national top 10 after Lorettes? I know it's not the same but that's kinda how the system works in Belgium. This...
Cant they point out the national top 10 after Lorettes? I know it's not the same but that's kinda how the system works in Belgium. This rule is applied for everyone.
The top 10 go basically automatically 5th-10th is depending on the amount of time in the class though. Iff you're a Rookie in the class you're allowed to stay another year.
I *think* if you make it to Loretta's in a C class then you can't race C class anymore. But I'm no expert on this stuff...
I *think* if you make it to Loretta's in a C class then you can't race C class anymore. But I'm no expert on this stuff.

Our local 250C kids are ridiculously fast. By way of example, when I started racing again after a 15 year break I entered 250C and got my ass handed to me. The next year I race the 40B class and sometimes win it, then managed to make it to Loretta's in the 40+ class. I guarantee I would still have my ass handed to me if I could drop down to the 250C class. Those kids are definitely not what I would call beginners lol!

Cheers
Simon
Like i said it's no comparison with Belgium.
And as much i would love to, i have never seen a Loretta C class in real life.
Or any other Loretta races for that matter, so i'm not really entitled to say how much should move up or how fast those kids really are.
But if you say that those kids run away from you as a winner in the B class of any age or engine size for that part is just stupid.
My opinion on C class at Loretta's:
I understand that these kids have a certain skill level and don't look like RonnieMac on track but they should not be able to beat a top 10 rider in the B class if you can you just don't belong in C it's that simple for me.
Sure the kid probably won't win that much but if they get their feelings hurt they should consider playing ping pong.

I have 3 national championships in 50, 60 and 80cc class but it took me 7 years to get those if i lost i was beat straight up its that simple. I remember as if it was yesterday i got my ass handed the first year in 50cc and did not even made it inside the top 15 on many occasion. I cried like a spoiled punk and my dad used to kick me in the ass and he told me that life is not about participating but winning. I worked my ass of since that day. I do not regret the lessons i learned that year.
rrjr
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2/27/2017 2:22pm
Mr. Info wrote:
That's the tracks job to advance riders. That is where transponders work best by having proof they would run in the top 3 of the next...
That's the tracks job to advance riders. That is where transponders work best by having proof they would run in the top 3 of the next class.
If that's the case then why doesn't your track advance riders? I know you use transponders.

The only promoter in Southern California that I've ever seen move a rider to a higher class was Stu Peter's daughter Sondra from CMC

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