What caused Roczen's crash?

TXDirt
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TXDirt 1/23/2017 1:09pm
1/23/2017 1:09pm
Roostermx58 wrote:
If there was a way to keep his body from continuing the upward motion that his bike pushed him, he would have been ok. From time...
If there was a way to keep his body from continuing the upward motion that his bike pushed him, he would have been ok. From time to time, ive seen the riders lock their boots under their pegs which may have helped if he would have had enough time to do so.
gt80rider wrote:
I ride with my right foot under the brake pedal at times to help stay glued to the bike.... Makes me wonder if anyone has tried...
I ride with my right foot under the brake pedal at times to help stay glued to the bike.... Makes me wonder if anyone has tried having a pair of "pegs" mounted at the top of the cases that a rider can get his feet under to help in this instance or to purposely pull up on the bike to help in certain situations...
When bike decides it wants to be separated from rider I'm not sure it's a good idea to force the issue.
yak651
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yak651 1/23/2017 1:12pm
1/23/2017 1:12pm
Roostermx58 wrote:
If there was a way to keep his body from continuing the upward motion that his bike pushed him, he would have been ok. From time...
If there was a way to keep his body from continuing the upward motion that his bike pushed him, he would have been ok. From time to time, ive seen the riders lock their boots under their pegs which may have helped if he would have had enough time to do so.
gt80rider wrote:
I ride with my right foot under the brake pedal at times to help stay glued to the bike.... Makes me wonder if anyone has tried...
I ride with my right foot under the brake pedal at times to help stay glued to the bike.... Makes me wonder if anyone has tried having a pair of "pegs" mounted at the top of the cases that a rider can get his feet under to help in this instance or to purposely pull up on the bike to help in certain situations...
TXDirt wrote:
When bike decides it wants to be separated from rider I'm not sure it's a good idea to force the issue.
No kidding, i don't think being "stuck" to the bike and it driving you into the ground would be such a good thing
gt80rider
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gt80rider 1/23/2017 1:13pm
1/23/2017 1:13pm
Btw, about the track... While tarping a track does a great job of keeping the jump faces dry, it does any equally good job of making sure the bases of the jumps get soaked... Riders don't practice on, and are not used to, the way jumps "work in" that way... I sure wouldn't want to race on a track where the bottom quarter of every jump face is softer than the rest... I would much rather just race a full mudder...
gt80rider
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gt80rider 1/23/2017 1:23pm
1/23/2017 1:23pm
yak651 wrote:
No kidding, i don't think being "stuck" to the bike and it driving you into the ground would be such a good thing
I am not talking about clipping in like on a bicycle, that would be a death wish... Just a couple small pegs to get your toes under during such an incident or when really trying to pop over an obstacle...

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TJ 755
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TJ 755 1/23/2017 1:25pm
1/23/2017 1:25pm

Reminds me of this. The take of is just so small and cupped and they are simply riding faster than the suspension can handle with out endo
https://youtu.be/VSfIS3AW6nQ
Moto75
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Moto75 1/23/2017 1:29pm
1/23/2017 1:29pm
He jumped a little deeper into the bottom / transition of the jump than previous laps, the front end landing almost at the face. The front end came up quickly, his body weight pushed through instead of staying balanced.

I felt like as the laps were clicking off, he was probably getting a little more anxious & just slightly over rode the track.
sebastianer 1/23/2017 1:58pm
1/23/2017 1:58pm
impossible to say only he knows but this is what i think, he pushed harder than anyone else there and wanted to soak up the kick so he wouldn't go so far and there for he was pretty relaxed in his legs and arms and just got the balance wrong and to much forward weight. if he would have stayed stiffer and was not so comfortable he would have saved it i think.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 1/23/2017 2:02pm
1/23/2017 2:02pm
Spot on Mr.Holeshot... But I always felt it might be better to ride those situations out... Split second judgment call.
Spankey
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Spankey 1/23/2017 2:03pm
1/23/2017 2:03pm
JB426 wrote:
Obviously this happened very fast but, in hindsight, does anyone think he could have pulled himself back onto the bike at all? May have still crashed...
Obviously this happened very fast but, in hindsight, does anyone think he could have pulled himself back onto the bike at all? May have still crashed but maybe the bike could have absorbed it a little? If you notice on the replay he got thrown up but still had his hands on the bars and then it looks like he made a decision to actually push the bike away with his hands to get it away from him. I'm still sick about this. Thoughts and prayers going out to Ken.
I don't think so. He knew that it was jacking him so hard that if he would have kept hanging on to the bars he would have went completely over and who knows how he would have landed.
tk2stroke
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tk2stroke 1/23/2017 2:08pm
1/23/2017 2:08pm
GarySemics wrote:
Man, that was such a hard crash that I felt it sitting in my chair! I'm surprised he only had injuries to his arm. I thought...
Man, that was such a hard crash that I felt it sitting in my chair! I'm surprised he only had injuries to his arm. I thought there were going to be broken ribs and a collarbone and shoulder issues. I know as a former motocross racer, right after a crash your brain begins to analyze what caused the crash. Here's my analogy. The take off jump had a soft bottom that created a sharper, shorter take-off point. Instead of the take-off point being at the top of the jump it was half-way up the jump. Ken didn't adjust his techniques for this fact. All of a sudden he was in a crash situation with no way out.
I hate to see that happen to any racer, especially when they are at the top of their game. Hope Ken makes a speedy recovery!
Gary, I've been breaking down the crash frame by frame and your analysis seems to be partially if not entirely on point. His back tire leaves the jump face for the last time about 2/3rd's up the face of the jump, well before the top of the face.

Clearly KROC was not ready for this and it was enough of a force to knock his feet off the pegs. Top level riders simply don't lose connection from their bike without a very significant and unexpected event that is outside of their ability to recover from.

A combination of some track condition along with his suspension being completely packed seems to be the only likely conditions to cause such force.
GIwasB4
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GIwasB4 1/23/2017 2:19pm
1/23/2017 2:19pm
BobbyM wrote:
Spot on Mr.Holeshot... But I always felt it might be better to ride those situations out... Split second judgment call.
What's up Myersdork? Teefus would have said too much seat bounce.
Julian
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Julian 1/23/2017 2:37pm
1/23/2017 2:37pm
solution is easy Gary.

just build today's sx tracks like back in the 80's

racing was tighter

more passing

more time on the ground actually racing against each other

and when a rider tumbled down to earth, it was from 1/3 the height compared to today
oldblood
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oldblood 1/24/2017 5:06pm
1/24/2017 5:06pm
Noticed a slight front end correction before to line up with the rut and another more sudden but slight front end correction just after he leaves the face. Could drag against the side of the ruts or dragging the frame/footpeg have further complicated the issues listed above?
oldblood
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oldblood 1/24/2017 6:33pm
1/24/2017 6:33pm
Ruts not as deep on that side but so compressed fenders wrapping the tires so maybe frame dragging. Would like to know Adams perspective, probably oh sh...
oldblood
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oldblood 1/24/2017 6:37pm
1/24/2017 6:37pm
Heal quick Kenny
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 1/24/2017 7:08pm
1/24/2017 7:08pm Edited Date/Time 1/24/2017 7:09pm
Simple, he hit a small wall jump to fast!
oldblood
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oldblood 1/24/2017 7:19pm
1/24/2017 7:19pm
Yeah that too
MrMoto
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MrMoto 1/24/2017 7:29pm
1/24/2017 7:29pm Edited Date/Time 1/24/2017 7:44pm
JB426 wrote:
Obviously this happened very fast but, in hindsight, does anyone think he could have pulled himself back onto the bike at all? May have still crashed...
Obviously this happened very fast but, in hindsight, does anyone think he could have pulled himself back onto the bike at all? May have still crashed but maybe the bike could have absorbed it a little? If you notice on the replay he got thrown up but still had his hands on the bars and then it looks like he made a decision to actually push the bike away with his hands to get it away from him. I'm still sick about this. Thoughts and prayers going out to Ken.
This..... Get well, you are gracious and a good guy... Kinda fast too :-) - we all miss you out there already.... so appreciative of your dedication and attitude...
"Buy the ticket, take the ride" H.Thompson
Honestly, we've never seen any pro so quick to push off....
Watch some Hannah or even Anderson. or a hundred other scenarios where bike attitude is way more out yet still soaks up some Gs... Hang onto bike and twist throttle... I know big 450s hit hard but outcome would have been better.... can't always count on down'sliding' as you did in Vegas...

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oldblood
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oldblood 1/24/2017 7:41pm
1/24/2017 7:41pm
Agreed. Funny my 10yo imeadeatly asked me when it happened, "if he hung on pulled up hard and panic reved couldn't he clear the next jump "? Don't know about that.
Still2StrokenIt 1/24/2017 7:43pm
1/24/2017 7:43pm
I wouldn't blame the bike but I would question his set up it seems too soft and too slow rebound for SUPERCROSS. The bike bounced off him off like a javelin. His forward stance and the late kick were to much for Z German. RCH was fighting him on his indoor set up before giving in.
Jmicmoto13 1/24/2017 7:51pm
1/24/2017 7:51pm
hillbilly wrote:
Needed a stiffer spring . You gotta plan for the unplanned when you need that last 2 inches to save you .
That's what she said.
FARANG
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FARANG 1/24/2017 8:14pm
1/24/2017 8:14pm
I think he over jumped the previous jump, causing his suspension to compress later and rebound half way up the face of the jump.

This effect may have been exaggerated by a kicker on the jump or a false take off point half way up the face, caused by the bottom half the the face falling away throughout the evening.

He was also unlucky to slam into the face of the jump instead of flying a few feet more and landing on the downside.


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mxnick 1/24/2017 10:09pm
1/24/2017 10:09pm
A friend of mine in the suspension business had the following to say:

(begins)

The crash is caused from the shock releasing a shitload of stored energy too quickly. Simple physics.

In the last few years the manufactures have adopted/switched over to a more automotive model on the rebound circuits. It means more rebound damping for short displacement high velocity movements at a cost of not controlling high displacements movements where the spring and chassis heavily store energy.

Turns the bike into a spring board when the rear is heavily loaded.

Sort of a no brainer and if you look back these spring board style crashes have been happening a lot more.

These types of scenarios turn riders into lawn darts, increasing the changes of neck and spine compression injuries, of which a helmet and neck brace offer no protection.

Most will just write it off as "that's motocross".

Bullshit.

(ends)

Pretty interesting commentary....
Thisusernameisavailable 1/25/2017 12:38am
1/25/2017 12:38am
FARANG wrote:
I think he over jumped the previous jump, causing his suspension to compress later and rebound half way up the face of the jump. This effect...
I think he over jumped the previous jump, causing his suspension to compress later and rebound half way up the face of the jump.

This effect may have been exaggerated by a kicker on the jump or a false take off point half way up the face, caused by the bottom half the the face falling away throughout the evening.

He was also unlucky to slam into the face of the jump instead of flying a few feet more and landing on the downside.


I absolutely agree.
I think he launched too far off that plateu before it. Landing hard in to the ruts and face of the next jump.
Had he landed further back just 2ft he would have been fine.

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