Is SX really worth it..

Skidaddle
Profile picture for user Skidaddle
Posts
1707
Joined
7/19/2016
Location
Woodland, CA US
Skidaddle 1/23/2017 12:36pm
1/23/2017 12:36pm
Skidaddle wrote:
Dungeys outdoor neck break was a fluke. McElraths wrist was a product of the shear speed involved when he crashed. Same for Stewarts Colorado crash. Outdoors...
Dungeys outdoor neck break was a fluke.
McElraths wrist was a product of the shear speed involved when he crashed.
Same for Stewarts Colorado crash.

Outdoors are far too fast, and ask any rider in SX where they crash.
Forkners bike went backwards when he nosed that last whoop. Roczen wadded twice in rhythms.

James Stewart has disconnected from his bike numerous times in whoops and rhythms.




Phillip_Lamb wrote:
you mention outdoors being too fast? like overall or just some of the tracks are getting out of hand, like Glen helen for instance. do you...
you mention outdoors being too fast? like overall or just some of the tracks are getting out of hand, like Glen helen for instance.

do you think they should slow the tracks down, make em more technical like Euro tracks?
I think some sections are too fast. 50-70 MPH in moto is bad when you hit rough dirt. However, these guys are pros, and speed and motorsports are like peanut butter and jelly but at some point it gets too much.
Without changes, NHRA would be over 400 MPH now. So they shortened some tracks.

And 450s are the 500s of old. Only a few can actually ride one to its potential. The rest are surviving till the flag waves. And so few are actually racing.














MotoX85
Profile picture for user MotoX85
Posts
2199
Joined
10/9/2011
Location
Centralia, IL US
MotoX85 1/23/2017 12:36pm
1/23/2017 12:36pm
mitchell 8 wrote:
Sx is a great show, in turns of the layout, fans, air time etc. But when you consider the very high risk involved is it really...
Sx is a great show, in turns of the layout, fans, air time etc. But when you consider the very high risk involved is it really worth the potential injuries ?

Im not saying it shouldn't happen, but for the most talented elite riders I would prefer to watch them battle a real motocross track, over a long season.

After a few laps SX usually becomes a procession of hopping riders, the slightest error for what ever reason & you can risk your whole year, even career.

Personally I would rather see the worlds best all ride together outdoors. Save SX for the specialists.

Totally agree, can't stand modern SX. Get rid of it already. It started as indoor motocross and has evolved into nothing but a way to shorten riders careers. Nobody grows up riding SX it's all about the money in the promoters pockets and the tracks have become different ways to make triples. It is beyond boring anymore.

Every year by the 5th round, half the field is injured. It either needs to go back to indoor motocross or time to go to outdoor mx only.
Starcrossed
Profile picture for user Starcrossed
Posts
3161
Joined
4/16/2014
Location
New Bedford, MA US
Starcrossed 1/23/2017 12:42pm
1/23/2017 12:42pm
Moto810 wrote:
The top riders and teams are interested in Money as they should be. However, in the long term play if you remove MX and only run...
The top riders and teams are interested in Money as they should be. However, in the long term play if you remove MX and only run SX sooner or later the money that supports this sport will be gone!

However, I for one have never felt those in charge of the sport have the business sense to understand the dynamic of this sport and how the core portion of the MX sport allows those being paid to do what they do. Simply put without motocross outdoor racing SX days are numbered as well.
ACBraap wrote:
Sure, but that's a change that has been happening over time anyway, as SX moves from an extension of MX, which has historically been a participant...
Sure, but that's a change that has been happening over time anyway, as SX moves from an extension of MX, which has historically been a participant driven, enthusiast sport, where marketing is based on selling to those participants, to an entertainment event marketed to anyone that wants to watch. While the vitalmx forum may be riders, Feld is looking to the dollars of the nonriding crowd. It used to be what wins on Sunday sells on Monday. Now it's what is advertised on Saturday night sells on Sunday.
Moto810 wrote:
Yes correct. That is my point. Feld only cares about the money and that is fine. However, they and Mx Sports also have gotten involved in...
Yes correct. That is my point. Feld only cares about the money and that is fine. However, they and Mx Sports also have gotten involved in the rules in order to influence what the riders buy. When you step into the rules and try to influence the sports direction your taking on a much larger role than a promoter. They did that with the four strokes and now they refuse to return to the equal displacement rule. This is only one example of it where they stepped in to influence the sports core. During this the AMA was minimized and no longer yields any control of the sport.
Where is this equal displacement rule they refuse to return to?
Moto810
Profile picture for user Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV US
Moto810 1/23/2017 12:50pm
1/23/2017 12:50pm
The AMA now allows as an example 250cc two strokes to race against 250 four strokes. However, in outdoor Pro motocross the AMA does not sanction that racing so those rules are decided by Mx Sports. They refuse to allow the equal displacement. Of course they are allowed to do so because they are not sanctioned by anyone thus they make their own rules.

The Shop

See All »
Starcrossed
Profile picture for user Starcrossed
Posts
3161
Joined
4/16/2014
Location
New Bedford, MA US
Starcrossed 1/23/2017 12:59pm
1/23/2017 12:59pm
Moto810 wrote:
The AMA now allows as an example 250cc two strokes to race against 250 four strokes. However, in outdoor Pro motocross the AMA does not sanction...
The AMA now allows as an example 250cc two strokes to race against 250 four strokes. However, in outdoor Pro motocross the AMA does not sanction that racing so those rules are decided by Mx Sports. They refuse to allow the equal displacement. Of course they are allowed to do so because they are not sanctioned by anyone thus they make their own rules.
So it's a rule they refuse to institute for pro racing, which you suggest should be split up into age classes for SX and MX. Well the manufacturers have some influence in pro racing, and that's where the changes will have to come from if you want to see equal displacement at the pro level...not MX Sports, or Feld.
olds cool
Profile picture for user olds cool
Posts
4159
Joined
1/17/2010
Location
Claremont, NC US
olds cool 1/23/2017 1:19pm
1/23/2017 1:19pm
I am not a fan of extending SX to 25 or so rounds because I love the outdoors but that and $.99 will get you a cup of coffee at Mickey D's. If it does happen, I predict that most of the top 10 or so guys could be in the title hunt because of attrition. You don't necessarily have to be the fastest guy, just ride within your limits and stay healthy for 25 weeks. May not have to win a race. #lastmanstanding
Moto_Geek
Profile picture for user Moto_Geek
Posts
1824
Joined
6/26/2007
Location
Golden, CO US
Moto_Geek 1/23/2017 1:22pm
1/23/2017 1:22pm
This was just bum luck.. If he landed the back side of the jump, he probably would have got up and won the race..
Moto810
Profile picture for user Moto810
Posts
815
Joined
1/25/2015
Location
Milton, WV US
Moto810 1/23/2017 1:32pm
1/23/2017 1:32pm
Moto810 wrote:
The AMA now allows as an example 250cc two strokes to race against 250 four strokes. However, in outdoor Pro motocross the AMA does not sanction...
The AMA now allows as an example 250cc two strokes to race against 250 four strokes. However, in outdoor Pro motocross the AMA does not sanction that racing so those rules are decided by Mx Sports. They refuse to allow the equal displacement. Of course they are allowed to do so because they are not sanctioned by anyone thus they make their own rules.
Starcrossed wrote:
So it's a rule they refuse to institute for pro racing, which you suggest should be split up into age classes for SX and MX. Well...
So it's a rule they refuse to institute for pro racing, which you suggest should be split up into age classes for SX and MX. Well the manufacturers have some influence in pro racing, and that's where the changes will have to come from if you want to see equal displacement at the pro level...not MX Sports, or Feld.
This sport works top down. The regular everyday riders buy what the pro's race or use. When the manufactures went to the promoters and forced them or paid them to change the rules helping four strokes then that had the desired effect on what we all purchased moving forward.

If this was only about pro racing it would be no issue. If it was only about pro racing it would had never happen. It took place because some manufactures wanted to sell four strokes instead of two strokes. Why? Cost of course. Parts cost more, service costs more, and bikes cost more. It was a business plan but they forgot about what happens when you price out much of the riders.
Mr. Knobby 1/23/2017 2:06pm
1/23/2017 2:06pm
Tomac was the fastest rider on the planet until he crashed outdoors and broke both shoulders. He hasn't been the same since. The speeds outdoors are so high that when someone crashes, they sometimes crash very badly. Mike Alessi was almost killed outdoors when he not only crashed badly but he was then run over a number of times. Was a sickening crash.

It's not simply 'jumps' or 'supercross' it's these insanely difficult rhythm sections that are designed to test these amazing riders and their equipment. But these guys find ways to go through the sections in unbelievable ways that require incredible accuracy, weight transfer and throttle control. Then in order to run with the top guys you have to take these extreme risks on EVERY LAP. You could take a good rider from your local track and put him on that track on Saturday, if you told him to do the sections the same way the top guys were running them he wouldn't make it around one lap.

I don't know how you design tracks to test the top guys but still keep them reasonably safe, and make the racing exciting, but that is what needs to be done - somehow....
hillbilly
Profile picture for user hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
hillbilly 1/23/2017 2:09pm
1/23/2017 2:09pm
I blame the guy that invented the wheel then made something to ride said wheel,that bastard.
hillbilly
Profile picture for user hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
hillbilly 1/23/2017 2:24pm
1/23/2017 2:24pm
Starcrossed wrote:
[img]http://lovingthebike.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/BC.jpg[/img]
See how he is smiling,knew what he'd done,bastard.
STLSharky
Profile picture for user STLSharky
Posts
464
Joined
11/12/2016
Location
Edwardsville, IL US
STLSharky 1/23/2017 2:51pm
1/23/2017 2:51pm
mitchell 8 wrote:
Sx is a great show, in turns of the layout, fans, air time etc. But when you consider the very high risk involved is it really...
Sx is a great show, in turns of the layout, fans, air time etc. But when you consider the very high risk involved is it really worth the potential injuries ?

Im not saying it shouldn't happen, but for the most talented elite riders I would prefer to watch them battle a real motocross track, over a long season.

After a few laps SX usually becomes a procession of hopping riders, the slightest error for what ever reason & you can risk your whole year, even career.

Personally I would rather see the worlds best all ride together outdoors. Save SX for the specialists.

For the factory guys of course its what they do and get paid to risk it.

For the Ronnie Fords and Mark Weishaar's of the world? Hell no!

My kid would have loved to be there donating but once put on his own dime

he didn't want to donate his earned money and I don't think most people would.

If the paid pros can crash like that what happens to the unpaid schmoes if that happens?

No effing way.
dr516
Profile picture for user dr516
Posts
587
Joined
7/10/2008
Location
Visalia, CA US
dr516 1/23/2017 3:01pm
1/23/2017 3:01pm
Jt$ wrote:
Dream on. If you hate SX, it's going to get worse for you, not better.
Cashmore wrote:
How so?


It’s coming all Supercross all the time.
Mr. Info
Profile picture for user Mr. Info
Posts
1671
Joined
5/3/2010
Location
Perris, CA US
Mr. Info 1/23/2017 4:07pm
1/23/2017 4:07pm
The Factories are not behind it because it does not sell bikes. The riders like it because it's a half a day racing for 25 rounds and yes they still have to train but not as hard. Do they think they will get the same big contract. I really don't think so.

Does Monster Trucks sell people Monster Trucks? No.

NASCAR drivers train almost as hard and have 30 some odd races with travel and sponsor visits and races that last a lot longer than a SX race and not as much as the past but still sells cars. Yes they make more money but have a much fuller schedule.

SX is a spectator sport and MX is a Die- Hard fan base but it's still a niche sport and will never have a NASCAR type fan base. And when Feld starts losing mega money cause the top guys can't last a whole season there gone. It's a shame. In Europe the fans love the outdoors and rider closeness and stay away from SX. Who can figure
hillbilly
Profile picture for user hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
hillbilly 1/23/2017 4:56pm
1/23/2017 4:56pm
Couldn't Ken chose not to ride? Just say I quit,this shit it crazy?

Can't get my feeble mind around the absolute tripping on a simple crash.

Blaming everybody but the one holding the bars.

Sx is dangerous but they seem to love doing it. I always felt it was a equal trade for the rush and fun I was having,didn't want to get hurt but knew I was going to,about once a year,give or take.

Pit Row

See All »
kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 1/23/2017 4:59pm
1/23/2017 4:59pm
Starcrossed wrote:
[img]http://lovingthebike.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/BC.jpg[/img]
hillbilly wrote:
See how he is smiling,knew what he'd done,bastard.
The guy that made the second wheel, is the guy that created racing Smile
hillbilly
Profile picture for user hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
hillbilly 1/23/2017 5:03pm
1/23/2017 5:03pm
Starcrossed wrote:
[img]http://lovingthebike.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/BC.jpg[/img]
hillbilly wrote:
See how he is smiling,knew what he'd done,bastard.
kkawboy14 wrote:
The guy that made the second wheel, is the guy that created racing Smile
I could race that rig right there with a good club.
Motoxdoc
Profile picture for user Motoxdoc
Posts
2703
Joined
11/8/2009
Location
Steamboat Springs, CO US
Motoxdoc 1/23/2017 5:21pm
1/23/2017 5:21pm
Simply put, it's worth it for some and not for others. Different people have different realities. Ask Jeremy"The King" McGrath...I think I know what he would say. Then ask Danny "Magoo" Chandlers family.....I think I know what they would say too. I think you would get two very different answers.....and they would BOTH be right!
hillbilly
Profile picture for user hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
hillbilly 1/23/2017 5:27pm
1/23/2017 5:27pm
Motoxdoc wrote:
Simply put, it's worth it for some and not for others. Different people have different realities. Ask Jeremy"The King" McGrath...I think I know what he would...
Simply put, it's worth it for some and not for others. Different people have different realities. Ask Jeremy"The King" McGrath...I think I know what he would say. Then ask Danny "Magoo" Chandlers family.....I think I know what they would say too. I think you would get two very different answers.....and they would BOTH be right!
I don't think Danny would say it aint worth it.

It is a choice,choose to do it or not.
johnnypotato123 1/23/2017 5:45pm
1/23/2017 5:45pm
Injury is part of the sport, it sucks but it's what will make the championship that much sweeter when Kenny does get it.

kkawboy14
Profile picture for user kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
kkawboy14 1/23/2017 5:51pm
1/23/2017 5:51pm
hillbilly wrote:
See how he is smiling,knew what he'd done,bastard.
kkawboy14 wrote:
The guy that made the second wheel, is the guy that created racing Smile
hillbilly wrote:
I could race that rig right there with a good club.
Put a number on anything and I'll race it!
Motocross83 1/23/2017 6:09pm
1/23/2017 6:09pm
Injuries are of course part of the sport, but I do think the speeds are too high. These days the guys that don't qualify are going faster than McGrath in his heyday back on the 250 2 stroke. The intensity is so high and the bikes are so fast.

The riders today are utterly committed on every inch of the track in a way the previous generations weren't. You have to ride at the very edge of your limit (and then some) for the whole main because that's exactly what the other guy is going to do. And that inevitably leads to more mistakes because things are just happening faster, there's more to process, and any error or miscalculation is amplified.

You can't really alter that but in an ideal world you could slow the bikes down.
Jamal#440
Profile picture for user Jamal#440
Posts
274
Joined
12/23/2016
Location
MI US
Jamal#440 1/23/2017 6:37pm
1/23/2017 6:37pm
What they need to do is quit with this Rythm-cross BS and go back to SUPERCROSS.
2smokertillend 1/23/2017 6:37pm
1/23/2017 6:37pm
I don't follow arenacross, do they have a lot of injuries? The tracks are smaller, Are the sections more tame than a supercross track? I think a 450 is too big of a bike for indoors.
Bineano
Profile picture for user Bineano
Posts
413
Joined
10/2/2012
Location
Whitecourt CA
Bineano 1/23/2017 7:44pm
1/23/2017 7:44pm
lostboy819 wrote:
With Kenny out it will be more interesting. I felt Dungey would win it anyway but I bet we see more riders winning. Kroc being out...
With Kenny out it will be more interesting. I felt Dungey would win it anyway but I bet we see more riders winning. Kroc being out wont make any difference on ticket sales or money and the show will go on.
Man, I can't agree with that either.
With that logic, if we lost Dunge, Marv and Tomac we would have the most amazing season EVER!
The season rolls along for sure, and the podium pictures look a lot different, but it surely doesn't gain interest by losing the top guys...
jj welks
Profile picture for user jj welks
Posts
712
Joined
5/14/2015
Location
NH US
jj welks 1/23/2017 7:45pm
1/23/2017 7:45pm
Don't let the nationals die Sad
FARANG
Profile picture for user FARANG
Posts
861
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
AL US
FARANG 1/23/2017 8:00pm
1/23/2017 8:00pm
It would be a long break with no meaningful racing without SX.

I'm all for extending the Outdoors and limiting SX to around 10 races though. Maybe hold a few more international races where the AMA meets the GP's with a different format to the MXDN. More like the Ryder Cup format, the top 16 from each series battle it out instead of breaking down the Euro team into lots of small countries.

Post a reply to: Is SX really worth it..