Tomac has got in Roczen's head,...

mxmasta
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7/13/2016 6:55am
mxmasta wrote:
Damn, Roczen lost ONE race, and all of a sudden he has "2nd half meltdown"?! WOW this place... What are you guys writing next week, if...
Damn, Roczen lost ONE race, and all of a sudden he has "2nd half meltdown"?! WOW this place...

What are you guys writing next week, if Roczen wins both motos next saturday?
Or what happens if Tomac wins both motos again in the next race, is Roczen then washed up and old, and should retire?
mingham97 wrote:
Well I and the rest of the vitards on here knew it was only a matter of time before Tomac got his ass into gear and...
Well I and the rest of the vitards on here knew it was only a matter of time before Tomac got his ass into gear and started performing far better than he has shown in 2016. Winning a race has shown he is nearly at his full potential. Only an idiot would say Roczen is gonna crash and burn in the second half, but what were saying, is it's only going to get harder for him as the series goes on
I agree with everything you wrote. For me it is not only clear that Tomac is a better rider than what he has shown in the first few races this year (and that he is finding groove lately), but also Roczen is already riding better that he has been during all of the 2015 season. So there wont be a Tomac or a Roczen domination coming up, but we are in for more interesting races from now on.

Saying (like a lot of guys on here) that Tomac is now "in Roczens head" or that Roczen has his "2nd half meltdown" on the other hand, is just plain clueless - in my eyes. These guys are racers, and if they have a meltdown just because someone beat them on one or more races, they wouldn't be where they are now.
kkawboy14
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7/13/2016 7:06am
Did Tamac always beat Roczen in the 250 championships by just a few points?
mingham97
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7/13/2016 7:08am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2016 7:12am
mxmasta wrote:
I agree with everything you wrote. For me it is not only clear that Tomac is a better rider than what he has shown in the...
I agree with everything you wrote. For me it is not only clear that Tomac is a better rider than what he has shown in the first few races this year (and that he is finding groove lately), but also Roczen is already riding better that he has been during all of the 2015 season. So there wont be a Tomac or a Roczen domination coming up, but we are in for more interesting races from now on.

Saying (like a lot of guys on here) that Tomac is now "in Roczens head" or that Roczen has his "2nd half meltdown" on the other hand, is just plain clueless - in my eyes. These guys are racers, and if they have a meltdown just because someone beat them on one or more races, they wouldn't be where they are now.
Agreed agreed. I hope the Honda that Roczen rides next year is good. I think he would be untouchable (yes possibly out of reach of ET3) if he is as comfy as he was on the 2014 KTM. If if if if if that happens I think that he will have SX17 and MX17 under his belt. For him to do this well on a set up he hates, I would love to see him comfy.

seth505
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7/13/2016 7:10am
hvaughn88 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/07/12/143369/s1200_image.jpg[/img]


Which brings me to my next point...

The Shop

Prntscrn
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7/13/2016 7:13am
Prntscrn wrote:
If Eli would have dropped Ken in the second moto sure maybe, but Ken actually manage to put in a late charge and wasn't far off...
If Eli would have dropped Ken in the second moto sure maybe, but Ken actually manage to put in a late charge and wasn't far off. Doubt he's that worried..
jonboy688 wrote:
guess you missed the part where eli laid the bike down and got passed, and then passed ken again???
Uhm yeah he laid the bike down and got back up really quick and passed him immediately. But Roczen did manage to keep him close and almost came close enough to make an attack in the end. I'd say he's pissed that he lost but quiet happy he know he's fast enough to hang with Eli when he's on it
machine
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7/13/2016 7:14am
mxmasta wrote:
I agree with everything you wrote. For me it is not only clear that Tomac is a better rider than what he has shown in the...
I agree with everything you wrote. For me it is not only clear that Tomac is a better rider than what he has shown in the first few races this year (and that he is finding groove lately), but also Roczen is already riding better that he has been during all of the 2015 season. So there wont be a Tomac or a Roczen domination coming up, but we are in for more interesting races from now on.

Saying (like a lot of guys on here) that Tomac is now "in Roczens head" or that Roczen has his "2nd half meltdown" on the other hand, is just plain clueless - in my eyes. These guys are racers, and if they have a meltdown just because someone beat them on one or more races, they wouldn't be where they are now.
True..each will have his good days and not so good days. KROC's lead is too big, unless a major mechanical happens to KROC at some point.
mxmasta
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7/13/2016 7:22am
machine wrote:
True..each will have his good days and not so good days. KROC's lead is too big, unless a major mechanical happens to KROC at some point.
Let's just hope that for the rest of the series both only have their good days ;-)

And well, I guess Roczen knows that he doesn't need to go all in when it comes to moto wins from now on. He can stay inside his comfort level and still win this championship. But he really loves to win races, and so there is hope he won't back it down when he and Tomac fight for moto wins.
7/13/2016 7:38am
Just don't think Eli is there yet with his Kawasaki.
7/13/2016 7:43am
Just don't think Eli is there yet with his Kawasaki.
Yup, hes still not as comfy as he was last year.
dboivin
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7/13/2016 7:44am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2016 7:44am
i remember a certain someone having a big lead going into redbud few years back (CP377 i think) and trey getting beat by him all year until red bud....and then trey working him over the whole rest of the season and winning the championship.

this season is by no means over....and tomac has steadily been haunting roczen. Its definitely kennys championship to lose. he has positioned himself well. but tomac is gonna dog him the whole rest of the way. Is kenny happy settling for seconds the rest of the season to win the championship? i know what dungey would do.
Kasims
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7/13/2016 7:57am
Speaking about mind games, more interesting to me is, where would Tomac be up till Southwick, if Dunge was still there at every round..
TXDirt
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7/13/2016 8:24am
Southwick reminds me a bit of the "on-off" nature like Daytona Sx.

Eli hasn't had much for Kenny all year and I doubt that all of a sudden Eli found his missing speed. I watched Southwick and to me Eli is still very much fighting that Kawasaki. He was able to get some decent starts, just like he did at Daytona and the sandy track at Southwick worked to his favor. Just like it did at Daytona.

Each week Eli is getting better, but he is no where near the speed/confidence he had last year and he is still fighting his bike setup at the "normal" motocross races.

I say this as a huge fan of Eli. He's not in Kenny's head right now and doubt there is enough time in the season to get his bike and self dialed to make any kind of run on KR.

motomike137
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7/13/2016 8:35am
Kasims wrote:
Yes, because there will be silence, some moment for sure.. Wink
yak651 wrote:
Lost in the translation i'm sure, but in the US you would say crickets!
Kasims wrote:
:D sorry, my mistake.
lol
peelout
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7/13/2016 8:36am
lmao

how do you dorks come up with this shit?

Kenny has been making Eli look like a B rider all year, Eli gets 2 moto wins and all of a sudden it's over for Kenny? lol
motomike137
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7/13/2016 8:39am
dboivin wrote:
i remember a certain someone having a big lead going into redbud few years back (CP377 i think) and trey getting beat by him all year...
i remember a certain someone having a big lead going into redbud few years back (CP377 i think) and trey getting beat by him all year until red bud....and then trey working him over the whole rest of the season and winning the championship.

this season is by no means over....and tomac has steadily been haunting roczen. Its definitely kennys championship to lose. he has positioned himself well. but tomac is gonna dog him the whole rest of the way. Is kenny happy settling for seconds the rest of the season to win the championship? i know what dungey would do.
Even RC would begrudgingly back it off a notch in the rare case he needed to sew up a title. In this case it is a little early for KROC to ease off the throttle tube. I hope he doesn't.
ML512
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Fantasy
7/13/2016 8:39am
dboivin wrote:
i remember a certain someone having a big lead going into redbud few years back (CP377 i think) and trey getting beat by him all year...
i remember a certain someone having a big lead going into redbud few years back (CP377 i think) and trey getting beat by him all year until red bud....and then trey working him over the whole rest of the season and winning the championship.

this season is by no means over....and tomac has steadily been haunting roczen. Its definitely kennys championship to lose. he has positioned himself well. but tomac is gonna dog him the whole rest of the way. Is kenny happy settling for seconds the rest of the season to win the championship? i know what dungey would do.
Christophe Pourcle still had around a 10-15 point lead or so going into the final at Pala Raceway that year, then crashed in the first moto and dislocated his shoulder, ending his day. If Christophe would have gone about 3-4 on the day or so, he would have won the title. Trey put on an amazing charge the later half of the season, but Pourcel's injury resulting in two DNFs at Pala is what sealed the deal.
dboivin
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7/13/2016 9:09am
dboivin wrote:
i remember a certain someone having a big lead going into redbud few years back (CP377 i think) and trey getting beat by him all year...
i remember a certain someone having a big lead going into redbud few years back (CP377 i think) and trey getting beat by him all year until red bud....and then trey working him over the whole rest of the season and winning the championship.

this season is by no means over....and tomac has steadily been haunting roczen. Its definitely kennys championship to lose. he has positioned himself well. but tomac is gonna dog him the whole rest of the way. Is kenny happy settling for seconds the rest of the season to win the championship? i know what dungey would do.
ML512 wrote:
Christophe Pourcle still had around a 10-15 point lead or so going into the final at Pala Raceway that year, then crashed in the first moto...
Christophe Pourcle still had around a 10-15 point lead or so going into the final at Pala Raceway that year, then crashed in the first moto and dislocated his shoulder, ending his day. If Christophe would have gone about 3-4 on the day or so, he would have won the title. Trey put on an amazing charge the later half of the season, but Pourcel's injury resulting in two DNFs at Pala is what sealed the deal.
yeah. very memorable points championship with some crazy ups and downs. I just remember saying to myself at red bud....trey has no real chance at the championship. lol.
Falcon
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7/13/2016 9:38am
dboivin wrote:
i remember a certain someone having a big lead going into redbud few years back (CP377 i think) and trey getting beat by him all year...
i remember a certain someone having a big lead going into redbud few years back (CP377 i think) and trey getting beat by him all year until red bud....and then trey working him over the whole rest of the season and winning the championship.

this season is by no means over....and tomac has steadily been haunting roczen. Its definitely kennys championship to lose. he has positioned himself well. but tomac is gonna dog him the whole rest of the way. Is kenny happy settling for seconds the rest of the season to win the championship? i know what dungey would do.
ML512 wrote:
Christophe Pourcle still had around a 10-15 point lead or so going into the final at Pala Raceway that year, then crashed in the first moto...
Christophe Pourcle still had around a 10-15 point lead or so going into the final at Pala Raceway that year, then crashed in the first moto and dislocated his shoulder, ending his day. If Christophe would have gone about 3-4 on the day or so, he would have won the title. Trey put on an amazing charge the later half of the season, but Pourcel's injury resulting in two DNFs at Pala is what sealed the deal.
dboivin wrote:
yeah. very memorable points championship with some crazy ups and downs. I just remember saying to myself at red bud....trey has no real chance at the...
yeah. very memorable points championship with some crazy ups and downs. I just remember saying to myself at red bud....trey has no real chance at the championship. lol.
Don't forget that season was in the very volatile 250s, wherein riders were stealing points from one another. Dean Wilson and another PC Kawasaki guy (can't remember who) were also big factors. It was hard to get 2nd.

Right now, it won't be hard for Kroc to get 2nds. If Kenny settles in and goes 2-2 every race, he'll still win by almost a full moto. Hell, he could win 3 motos, go 2-2 in the rest and skip the second half of the day in the final round. Barring injury or at least one DNF, this title is pretty much wrapped up.

Still, it ain't over until the ability-to-only-eat-what-you-need-challenged lady sings.
ab5772
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7/13/2016 9:41am
They are both lucky that Dungey isn't there Smile
7/13/2016 9:52am
TripleFive wrote:
Watching that video reminded me of how important it was for Elijah to win last weekend. In the 250 class, Luke is right, ET3 had Kenneth...
Watching that video reminded me of how important it was for Elijah to win last weekend.

In the 250 class, Luke is right, ET3 had Kenneth mentally beat. How many times did Eli hunt Ken down at the end of a moto and drop him??

The 'Wick was crucial for Eli, mentally. Even though I expect that things will be back to business as usual for K-Roc at Millville, it's vitally important that Eli knows that when he's onnnn, he still has Ken covered.

It's a mental game, boyz.
Elijah / Kenneth ? WTF ...

Some of the posts on here crack me up, Eli has been riding good the past two races and looks to be a thorn in Roczens side at the moment, but saying that Eli is in Roczens head is hardly the case.
7/13/2016 9:53am
peelout wrote:
lmao how do you dorks come up with this shit? Kenny has been making Eli look like a B rider all year, Eli gets 2 moto...
lmao

how do you dorks come up with this shit?

Kenny has been making Eli look like a B rider all year, Eli gets 2 moto wins and all of a sudden it's over for Kenny? lol
Right ?? Lol
Bonanza69
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7/13/2016 9:59am
ab5772 wrote:
They are both lucky that Dungey isn't there Smile


Clutchy
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7/13/2016 10:41am
Roczen doesn't need to win. If it's there he'll take it. He want's a supercross championship and you can't do that if you're injured. 2nd every week wins the championship. Just my opinion.
dboivin
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7/13/2016 10:58am
Clutchy wrote:
Roczen doesn't need to win. If it's there he'll take it. He want's a supercross championship and you can't do that if you're injured. 2nd every...
Roczen doesn't need to win. If it's there he'll take it. He want's a supercross championship and you can't do that if you're injured. 2nd every week wins the championship. Just my opinion.
i agree but i think kenny takes it personal when he doesn't win. Settling for 2nd to win the championship (smart IMO) is not a horrible thing...instead of throwing out those excuses last weekend all he needed to say was "i like where im at in this championship and it was a tough weekend". The way he answered created all this circus of him being momentarily down on his bike, his forks, his team and guys making threads like this, lol.
jonboy688
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7/13/2016 12:57pm
Prntscrn wrote:
If Eli would have dropped Ken in the second moto sure maybe, but Ken actually manage to put in a late charge and wasn't far off...
If Eli would have dropped Ken in the second moto sure maybe, but Ken actually manage to put in a late charge and wasn't far off. Doubt he's that worried..
jonboy688 wrote:
guess you missed the part where eli laid the bike down and got passed, and then passed ken again???
Prntscrn wrote:
Uhm yeah he laid the bike down and got back up really quick and passed him immediately. But Roczen did manage to keep him close and...
Uhm yeah he laid the bike down and got back up really quick and passed him immediately. But Roczen did manage to keep him close and almost came close enough to make an attack in the end. I'd say he's pissed that he lost but quiet happy he know he's fast enough to hang with Eli when he's on it
your right, having a sizeable lead and tipping over in the sand, had no bearing on kr being able to keep up in the moto, I don't know what the lead size was but I am guessing 3-4 secs? and it was such a one lined race as everyone says, I am sure the lead would of been a lot more sizeable if the tip over didn't happen... but life is full of ifs
Lucifa.
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7/13/2016 1:13pm
Have any of you guys thought it could of been the sand track that helped Tomac win? We saw he was better in the sand than Roczen.

Tomac made a massive improvement last weekend but will it continue back on the hard stuff?

What happens if Kenny goes back to 1 - 1 next race?

Will we back to "He's needs to get good starts" "it's his shoulders" "Bike set up"?



Just a thought.
mbha
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7/13/2016 1:44pm
I know the circumstances are different even from day to day but I did some time comparisons on the same tracks between 2015 and 2016 and Ken has been consistently many seconds faster this year than Tomac was last year those first races when he was crushing it. Other riders have comparable times. I might didn't look hard enough but I got this impression. And back then I forgot to breath from finding Tomacs riding hazardous, but I haven't at all had that impression this year. He was going apeshit last year.

And now they go into a race with completely different mindset. Ken has the championship in his hands and have to ride conservative to not do anything stupid and put in jeopardy. Tomac has nothing to loose and can go in full mode. So the way the points are, Ken shouldn't push it. He can and should take a second if Tomac is going at full speed. Tomac on the other hand have just one thing to focus on. Beating Ken in the current moto, so the situation isn't the same. It was some weeks ago and then Ken won, every time..

7/13/2016 1:57pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2016 1:59pm
Just don't think Eli is there yet with his Kawasaki.
Kx125rider wrote:
Yup, hes still not as comfy as he was last year.
based on what ? how does it show ?

just because he isnt dominating like the first few races next year ? how about Roczen stepped up his game , as both were much faster as all other riders .... take away Roczen , and it looks a lot different

Southwick is a track much more suited for Tomac as Roczen , Roczen isnt a sand specialist at all
Tomac is super fast in sand tracks
7/13/2016 2:22pm
i remember the first time i smoked crack.

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