Oh yes he did - KR air forks

mmcmx
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mmcmx 7/10/2016 3:24pm
7/10/2016 3:24pm
I don't know if it was him or the bike but he looked horrible in the first moto.
WFO!
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WFO! 7/10/2016 3:27pm
7/10/2016 3:27pm
Andy_Greenney wrote:
Whats the difference between an excuse and a reason for underperforming?
A “reason” is an explanation for why something is the way it is, with everyone involved taking accountability for their part in a situation. An excuse is an explanation for why something is the way it is, that always involves the blame being put on someone or something that isn’t involved in the conversation, and not able to share their side of the story. What’s the difference? The accountability.
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RG1 7/10/2016 3:29pm
7/10/2016 3:29pm
Bruneval wrote:
Just bashed them hard: "got worse and worse as Moto went on".
To me an excuse is something that you make up to cover your ass ie. 'The dog ate my homework'. If you have a legitimate bike problem that effects your performance, and you say that that is the case, then you aren't making excuses, you're just saying what happened. Roczen acknowledged Tomac's performance and congratulated him. It should have been clear for all to see though that all was not well in the first race, based on how much closer he was in race 2
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ATKpilot99 7/10/2016 3:34pm
7/10/2016 3:34pm
Bruneval wrote:
Just bashed them hard: "got worse and worse as Moto went on".
RG1 wrote:
To me an excuse is something that you make up to cover your ass ie. 'The dog ate my homework'. If you have a legitimate bike...
To me an excuse is something that you make up to cover your ass ie. 'The dog ate my homework'. If you have a legitimate bike problem that effects your performance, and you say that that is the case, then you aren't making excuses, you're just saying what happened. Roczen acknowledged Tomac's performance and congratulated him. It should have been clear for all to see though that all was not well in the first race, based on how much closer he was in race 2
So then is it safe to say Tomac's setup was off at Red Bud ?

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RG1
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RG1 7/10/2016 3:36pm
7/10/2016 3:36pm
RG1 wrote:
It's not an excuse at all, it's a contributing factor to his drop in performance.
Jimmy_Sloan wrote:
It's probably why Tomac has been losing to Roczen; because Tomac's set up has been off. You've seen what happens when Tomac is on. Wink
We've all seen what happens when Tomac is on, but unfortunately for him, he's not 'on' anywhere near enough. There's no doubt in my mind that Tomac has had his issues this season, it's not making excuses for him to say that, it's just the way things are. You think Tomac hasn't been saying his bike sucks in someway or another for the majority of the season? He might not say them on camera, but I bet he still says it, because it's probably true in the most part
kiwifan
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kiwifan 7/10/2016 3:37pm
7/10/2016 3:37pm Edited Date/Time 7/10/2016 3:47pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
So then is it safe to say Tomac's setup was off at Red Bud ?
Might of been, although just because one racer has the balls to say the setup is off one weekend doesnt mean that applies to other riders on other weekends, they could be just straight up beaten
RG1
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RG1 7/10/2016 3:40pm
7/10/2016 3:40pm Edited Date/Time 7/10/2016 3:43pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
So then is it safe to say Tomac's setup was off at Red Bud ?
I think that's a fair assumption to make. I don't think he would've beaten Roczen anyway, just like I don't think Roczen would've beaten Tomac at Southwick. At the end of the day it is on the rider, but if they have a problem that is out of their control that means that they can't perform to the best of their ability then I think they have every right to say so
Underground 7/10/2016 5:22pm
7/10/2016 5:22pm
Underground wrote:
Yeah that's what I was thinking and yeah it's only going to be the air spring length lighter than the full steel SFF which is still...
Yeah that's what I was thinking and yeah it's only going to be the air spring length lighter than the full steel SFF which is still plenty of dollars elsewhere saved. Air chamber at the top and steel at the bottom. The big benefit is perhaps the benefits of both systems with better feel and lighter weight. That Guzzi site is claiming the best bump absorption and progressive rate action available. SFF/HYBRID. Going to need longer fork legs for the decals Laughing Will be interesting what transpires.
ML512 wrote:
The full length SFF Spring is only in one side, where the hybrid is using a normal length spring... So one in each side puts you...
The full length SFF Spring is only in one side, where the hybrid is using a normal length spring... So one in each side puts you right back at a normal fork. I'm also not fully awake this morning, apologies if I miss-read.
To paint a better picture of what I'm thinking and in crued form, cut the SFF spring in half, drop a floating spring seat/piston on top of that slides up and down the damper rod (but in this case it would just be a retaining rod as no damping the spring fork) and seals on the outer fork tube also, screw on a cap with a valve and fill the top portion with air or N to the pressure that it will hold up the fork and achieve the desired performance.
Underground 7/10/2016 5:44pm
7/10/2016 5:44pm
Another way would be to put a solid piston on the end of the damper rod where the mid valve normally locates but in this case seals to the inner fork tube, replace the SFF fork spring with a regular twin spring and perch and have a valve on the fork cap that fills and sets the lower section via the hollow damper rod to the desired pressure and another for tuning the top section where the steel spring resides. The lower section would become the air chamber and it would require less air pressure overall and possibly achieve better initial action. with half the weight of twin springs. Just thinking of how a hybrid system would work.
Moto75
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Moto75 7/10/2016 5:49pm
7/10/2016 5:49pm
Funny how often you hear people complain, wishing riders were more open in the interviews & not so scripted. Now you get a rider laying out the challenges their team has & people are like - whiner, excuses, blah, blah. I think the majority of pros have had enough ups & downs that they can admit when they've been flat beaten. Sometimes its the rider, equipment or a combination of both. IMO it's refreshing when a rider is more open. With KR leaving the team & having another deal done, he doesn't have much to loose by being open. Guaranteed he wont complain about his Honda like that when he has an off day, whether its the bike or not.
Krazyk2774
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Krazyk2774 7/10/2016 6:31pm
7/10/2016 6:31pm
Bruneval wrote:
Just bashed them hard: "got worse and worse as Moto went on".
Alot of fans are too busy with the my guy is better than your guy! back and forth bickering to have time to think about anything else! Lol I'm a fan of great racing, not so much a fan of any one particular rider or another.
51xc
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51xc 7/10/2016 7:52pm
7/10/2016 7:52pm
so we are assuming that tomac is happy with his setup because he won 1 race? maybe but not necessarily.
mb
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mb 7/10/2016 11:57pm
7/10/2016 11:57pm
Big thanks to RG1, you saved me a lot of typing.
roundtheoutside 7/11/2016 2:04am
7/11/2016 2:04am
By the looks of it he is not dominating anymore and making "excuses", so can we agree he is german again when it comes to another Euro vs Ama debate? Grinning Grinning
machine
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machine 7/12/2016 6:51am
7/12/2016 6:51am
I'm starting to notice KR makes a lot of external excuses. I don't remember him ever saying so and so just rode better than me today, or I just rode like crap today.
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Sideways 7/12/2016 7:04am
7/12/2016 7:04am
machine wrote:
I'm starting to notice KR makes a lot of external excuses. I don't remember him ever saying so and so just rode better than me today...
I'm starting to notice KR makes a lot of external excuses. I don't remember him ever saying so and so just rode better than me today, or I just rode like crap today.
He is one of the best riders in the world. He never rides like crap. Its just a matter of bike settings that decides if he will win by 30sec or loose by 2sec. I think the same goes for Tomac.

Roczen said he wasnt feeling it at southwick because of his settings. He didnt feel comfortable. I for one appreciates him being honest and talk about setting issues instead of not saying anythin at all. Just as Barcia did last weekend when he said they have been having setup issues all season.

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Bonanza69
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Bonanza69 7/12/2016 7:26am
7/12/2016 7:26am
Holy crap,stop crying about Roczen's excuses,eat some cheeseburgers and enjoy the races.
U3
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U3 7/12/2016 7:33am
7/12/2016 7:33am
Moto75 wrote:
Funny how often you hear people complain, wishing riders were more open in the interviews & not so scripted. Now you get a rider laying out...
Funny how often you hear people complain, wishing riders were more open in the interviews & not so scripted. Now you get a rider laying out the challenges their team has & people are like - whiner, excuses, blah, blah. I think the majority of pros have had enough ups & downs that they can admit when they've been flat beaten. Sometimes its the rider, equipment or a combination of both. IMO it's refreshing when a rider is more open. With KR leaving the team & having another deal done, he doesn't have much to loose by being open. Guaranteed he wont complain about his Honda like that when he has an off day, whether its the bike or not.
So true...
Next time everyone cries about the "I want to thank Monster, Dunlop, the Lord, my whatever..." speeches!
Stupid Vitards haha

And if you guys have ever raced, you know how a bad setting can affect your performance.
But wait, you don't race and if, you'll always win....
peelout
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peelout 7/12/2016 9:04am
7/12/2016 9:04am Edited Date/Time 7/12/2016 1:33pm
wow

you guys really run with things don't you. excuse? how is him saying that his forks sucked in that moto any different than anyone all year saying their setup isn't great? Tomac for instance? he even congratulated Tomac.

that said, anyone with half a brain could see his bike was banging around like a porn star short on cash. Tomac straight up kicked his ass that first moto but it doesn't mean he was whining or coming up with excuses. the second moto was one of the best races of the year.

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Jimmy_Sloan 7/12/2016 9:12am
7/12/2016 9:12am Edited Date/Time 7/12/2016 9:18am
Moto75 wrote:
Funny how often you hear people complain, wishing riders were more open in the interviews & not so scripted. Now you get a rider laying out...
Funny how often you hear people complain, wishing riders were more open in the interviews & not so scripted. Now you get a rider laying out the challenges their team has & people are like - whiner, excuses, blah, blah. I think the majority of pros have had enough ups & downs that they can admit when they've been flat beaten. Sometimes its the rider, equipment or a combination of both. IMO it's refreshing when a rider is more open. With KR leaving the team & having another deal done, he doesn't have much to loose by being open. Guaranteed he wont complain about his Honda like that when he has an off day, whether its the bike or not.
U3 wrote:
So true... Next time everyone cries about the "I want to thank Monster, Dunlop, the Lord, my whatever..." speeches! Stupid Vitards haha And if you guys...
So true...
Next time everyone cries about the "I want to thank Monster, Dunlop, the Lord, my whatever..." speeches!
Stupid Vitards haha

And if you guys have ever raced, you know how a bad setting can affect your performance.
But wait, you don't race and if, you'll always win....
Everyone understands that set up is important, the point is that Kenny never just says he got beat and leaves it at that. He always has to point to some reason that he was beat rather than just saying the other guy was better that day.

Dungey will say he was beat and needs to go back and work on things to get some speed. Big difference between the two, imo. RC was the same way when he got beat, he would just say he needs to go faster.
Mit12
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Mit12 7/12/2016 10:20am
7/12/2016 10:20am
ML512,

If building pressure is a problem why not use air in both forks or add a volume canister? I know that we are talking the dark ages but back in the late 70s i ran all air with no spring and it seemed to work better than the substandard springs at the time.
CrazyDog
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CrazyDog 7/12/2016 10:31am
7/12/2016 10:31am
CrazyDog wrote:
Someone still knows what happend at Glen Helen? Maybe RCH have new measurement technology?

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/The-Part-that-Failed-on-K…
ML512 wrote:
What?
I'm not sure but i think it was this RCH rubber tube. I only want to say it's not the first time he had problems with the air forks.
lucero10x
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lucero10x 7/12/2016 10:40am
7/12/2016 10:40am
Jimmy_Sloan wrote:
Everyone understands that set up is important, the point is that Kenny never just says he got beat and leaves it at that. He always has...
Everyone understands that set up is important, the point is that Kenny never just says he got beat and leaves it at that. He always has to point to some reason that he was beat rather than just saying the other guy was better that day.

Dungey will say he was beat and needs to go back and work on things to get some speed. Big difference between the two, imo. RC was the same way when he got beat, he would just say he needs to go faster.
Oh fucking well. So what you are saying is that different personalities exist?
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kongols 7/12/2016 10:53am
7/12/2016 10:53am
lucero10x wrote:
Oh fucking well. So what you are saying is that different personalities exist?
Dungey almost never says he got beat. He says "we struggled". Same excuse wrapped in shiny paper.
CrazyDog
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CrazyDog 7/12/2016 11:13am
7/12/2016 11:13am
lucero10x wrote:
Oh fucking well. So what you are saying is that different personalities exist?
kongols wrote:
Dungey almost never says he got beat. He says "we struggled". Same excuse wrapped in shiny paper.
Different People have different Attitudes. I like it when people talk real and don't think so much about "political correctness"
ML512
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ML512 7/12/2016 11:52am
7/12/2016 11:52am
CrazyDog wrote:
Someone still knows what happend at Glen Helen? Maybe RCH have new measurement technology?

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/The-Part-that-Failed-on-K…
ML512 wrote:
What?
CrazyDog wrote:
I'm not sure but i think it was this RCH rubber tube. I only want to say it's not the first time he had problems with...
I'm not sure but i think it was this RCH rubber tube. I only want to say it's not the first time he had problems with the air forks.
No, that was a sensor and it was only in one fork leg. The rubber tube was to protect the wires inside... I explained it multiple times in what I wrote in that original topic.
ML512
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ML512 7/12/2016 11:54am
7/12/2016 11:54am
Mit12 wrote:
ML512, If building pressure is a problem why not use air in both forks or add a volume canister? I know that we are talking the...
ML512,

If building pressure is a problem why not use air in both forks or add a volume canister? I know that we are talking the dark ages but back in the late 70s i ran all air with no spring and it seemed to work better than the substandard springs at the time.
The KYB PSF1 fork does have air in both forks... Using a blow-off system is somewhat complicated as well, as the air pressure rises and the fork compresses through its range. Meaning the blow-off pressure would need to be based upon the pressure when the fork bottoms out.

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