Well boys there's your good start from Tomac

CrGuy2T
Profile picture for user CrGuy2T
Posts
4503
Joined
3/11/2015
Location
Santa Fe, TX US
CrGuy2T
I don't see him challenging Roczen for the title.
|
Kawi15
Profile picture for user Kawi15
Posts
568
Joined
5/31/2014
Location
West Richland, WA US
Kawi15 6/18/2016 11:04am
6/18/2016 11:04am Edited Date/Time 6/18/2016 11:05am
It just seems to me that Tomac doesn't have the strength he once had. By strength I am talking stamina strength. I know from experience that mistakes happen as muscles fatigue and I think its possible he still has some to gain. He has shown flashes and that he has enough to put in a fast lap or two but really just doesn't have all the pieces together to hold it for 30 mins + 2 yet. Not to mention having to learn a new bikes strengths and weaknesses all in the process.
I doesn't appear to be his year, but I do think he can still get some OA wins this year. I think he is probably just finding the little pieces and building still.
CrGuy2T
Profile picture for user CrGuy2T
Posts
4503
Joined
3/11/2015
Location
Santa Fe, TX US
CrGuy2T 6/18/2016 11:06am
6/18/2016 11:06am
I hope he can get up there and battle. I just don't see it happening. Just an opinion. For the record I do like Tomac. So no I'm not bashing him by any means.
holeshot413
Profile picture for user holeshot413
Posts
684
Joined
2/24/2008
Location
Prosperity, SC US
holeshot413 6/18/2016 11:09am
6/18/2016 11:09am
I'm thinking a lot of you don't really REALLy know, how hard it is to come back from shoulder injuries.
It's an injury that you cannot hurry up with. It's amazing that he is riding and racing as
Good as he is
IceMan446
Profile picture for user IceMan446
Posts
4676
Joined
1/10/2010
Location
Sacramento, CA US
IceMan446 6/18/2016 11:11am
6/18/2016 11:11am
Arm pump city!!!

The Shop

See All »
brimx153
Profile picture for user brimx153
Posts
3344
Joined
5/3/2012
Location
IE
brimx153 6/18/2016 11:13am
6/18/2016 11:13am
i think its the bike . he can bull dog a few fastest laps . but you just can race like that . DV said something interesting has anyone done any good on a kawi bar RV in resent years . But i am sure tomac will get it sorted . just hope it wont be like kenny . the min he gets it sorted , he has already signed to another bike .
CrGuy2T
Profile picture for user CrGuy2T
Posts
4503
Joined
3/11/2015
Location
Santa Fe, TX US
CrGuy2T 6/18/2016 11:14am
6/18/2016 11:14am Edited Date/Time 6/18/2016 11:32am
I guess I'm more geared toward people thinking a start would be the difference in the result.
USMCMXer
Profile picture for user USMCMXer
Posts
860
Joined
9/18/2015
Location
Farmington, MN US
USMCMXer 6/18/2016 12:04pm
6/18/2016 12:04pm
Hurts to watch. Want him to challenge Roczen, but every moto this continues to happen has to have a ripple effect on his confidence, frustration, and motivation. Hopefully this doesn't lead to over training, getting sick and getting further behind the proverbial 8-ball?! Come on Eli! Great ride by the 94, 25, 21 and the 14, for the majority of the moto anyhoo. He's (14) definitely stepping up his outdoor game.
Insider347
Profile picture for user Insider347
Posts
515
Joined
2/21/2012
Location
Raleigh, NC US
Insider347 6/18/2016 12:28pm
6/18/2016 12:28pm
CrGuy2T wrote:
I don't see him challenging Roczen for the title.
Agree. I had one a year ago, rotator cuff surgery, broke a piece and it took a year to get better and still hurts. I can't imagine what he went through and still racing as good as he is. It takes so much out of a person. I never thought it was any worse than broken bones, plates etc. but it's so much worse.
Nighttrain
Profile picture for user Nighttrain
Posts
2771
Joined
12/5/2011
Location
Charleston, SC US
Nighttrain 6/18/2016 1:03pm
6/18/2016 1:03pm
Pingree made some good comments about Tomac on DMXS. Basically said that it will take more time to build race fitness and he's had strong disagreements with the team on the bike setup. Whatever the case Roczen's so dialed in right now that no one can challenge him except an air fork.
mx 219
Profile picture for user mx 219
Posts
4040
Joined
8/15/2010
Location
South Central, PA US
mx 219 6/18/2016 1:15pm
6/18/2016 1:15pm
I'm here now....it was a confidence builder for sure. People can say what they want roczen even said he knew eli was close, so he was pushing.


Moto 1 tomac was closing til he tipped in that rut..I realize it was only lap 3 but still..not sure what happened afterwards and why he couldn't get by seely ot porcelain anderson didn't have a problem
Lightning78
Profile picture for user Lightning78
Posts
6353
Joined
12/12/2007
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
Lightning78 6/18/2016 4:10pm
6/18/2016 4:10pm
CrGuy2T wrote:
I don't see him challenging Roczen for the title.
LOL STILL??? He's had all Goddam year to figure the bike out and not yet? I realize they are not in SX mode any more but enough with the bike excuses for and from Tomac, Josh Grant has had way less time with I'm sure far less team support and attention and he is doing great. If he doesn't like a bike and can't say it that's fine but again he Newfull well when he was getting stuff into when he signed with them last year I hate it every year when is writers gun new bikes and they talk about how great it is with a underlying side bashing of their previous bike in this case he was publicly doing that Wilist completely destroying everyone on the Honda and look near flawless except for when he crashed and kept saying Kawi is way better Kawi is way better apparently it's not the bike IMO its Eli or his training strength and or stamina is not up to par.... it's something but it isn't the bike
moto282
Profile picture for user moto282
Posts
1294
Joined
7/25/2010
Location
Charlotte, NC US
moto282 6/18/2016 4:24pm
6/18/2016 4:24pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2016 4:24pm
Lightning78 wrote:
LOL STILL??? He's had all Goddam year to figure the bike out and not yet? I realize they are not in SX mode any more but...
LOL STILL??? He's had all Goddam year to figure the bike out and not yet? I realize they are not in SX mode any more but enough with the bike excuses for and from Tomac, Josh Grant has had way less time with I'm sure far less team support and attention and he is doing great. If he doesn't like a bike and can't say it that's fine but again he Newfull well when he was getting stuff into when he signed with them last year I hate it every year when is writers gun new bikes and they talk about how great it is with a underlying side bashing of their previous bike in this case he was publicly doing that Wilist completely destroying everyone on the Honda and look near flawless except for when he crashed and kept saying Kawi is way better Kawi is way better apparently it's not the bike IMO its Eli or his training strength and or stamina is not up to par.... it's something but it isn't the bike
We get that you don't like Tomac, but look at Roczen last year vs. this year... Why wouldn't it make sense that Tomac is going through the same adjustment that Roczen did with a new team and bike? Sometimes it's just confidence in the bike. Once he gets that and feels like he can win again he'll start riding like the old Tomac.
Jimmy_Sloan
Profile picture for user Jimmy_Sloan
Posts
1424
Joined
9/20/2015
Location
Oak Harbor, WA US
Jimmy_Sloan 6/18/2016 4:36pm
6/18/2016 4:36pm
CrGuy2T wrote:
I don't see him challenging Roczen for the title.
Lightning78 wrote:
LOL STILL??? He's had all Goddam year to figure the bike out and not yet? I realize they are not in SX mode any more but...
LOL STILL??? He's had all Goddam year to figure the bike out and not yet? I realize they are not in SX mode any more but enough with the bike excuses for and from Tomac, Josh Grant has had way less time with I'm sure far less team support and attention and he is doing great. If he doesn't like a bike and can't say it that's fine but again he Newfull well when he was getting stuff into when he signed with them last year I hate it every year when is writers gun new bikes and they talk about how great it is with a underlying side bashing of their previous bike in this case he was publicly doing that Wilist completely destroying everyone on the Honda and look near flawless except for when he crashed and kept saying Kawi is way better Kawi is way better apparently it's not the bike IMO its Eli or his training strength and or stamina is not up to par.... it's something but it isn't the bike
How do you know it's not the bike? I think it is the bike and once he gets the bike figured out, it's over for the rest.
CrGuy2T
Profile picture for user CrGuy2T
Posts
4503
Joined
3/11/2015
Location
Santa Fe, TX US
CrGuy2T 6/18/2016 5:05pm
6/18/2016 5:05pm
Jimmy_Sloan wrote:
How do you know it's not the bike? I think it is the bike and once he gets the bike figured out, it's over for the...
How do you know it's not the bike? I think it is the bike and once he gets the bike figured out, it's over for the rest.
Why is it not ok that Roczen is just the best out there at the moment. It's always wait for this or wait for that. It's the bike or the injuries. Just like last year. No excuses for Roxczen, Dungey was clearly the best last year. Tomac is a badass I'll give everyone that. He had blazing speed for the rounds last year. He has not proven that " it's over for the rest" in any circumstance.
Jimmy_Sloan
Profile picture for user Jimmy_Sloan
Posts
1424
Joined
9/20/2015
Location
Oak Harbor, WA US
Jimmy_Sloan 6/18/2016 5:14pm
6/18/2016 5:14pm
CrGuy2T wrote:
Why is it not ok that Roczen is just the best out there at the moment. It's always wait for this or wait for that. It's...
Why is it not ok that Roczen is just the best out there at the moment. It's always wait for this or wait for that. It's the bike or the injuries. Just like last year. No excuses for Roxczen, Dungey was clearly the best last year. Tomac is a badass I'll give everyone that. He had blazing speed for the rounds last year. He has not proven that " it's over for the rest" in any circumstance.
Why do you dismiss that it's the bike?
johnnypotato123 6/18/2016 5:25pm
6/18/2016 5:25pm
CrGuy2T wrote:
Why is it not ok that Roczen is just the best out there at the moment. It's always wait for this or wait for that. It's...
Why is it not ok that Roczen is just the best out there at the moment. It's always wait for this or wait for that. It's the bike or the injuries. Just like last year. No excuses for Roxczen, Dungey was clearly the best last year. Tomac is a badass I'll give everyone that. He had blazing speed for the rounds last year. He has not proven that " it's over for the rest" in any circumstance.
Roczen is the best out there at the moment, no argument there. Where all these "excuses" come from is Eli's dominance last year. I know I'll get blasted for this, but I would say he was better than Roczen is now, obviously you can get into the whole "who's made it further into the season?" but I honestly believe that.

He's proved he can be every bit as good as Roczen and even better than him at times, so that's why people are scratching their heads trying to come up with a reasoning.
Underground 6/18/2016 5:32pm
6/18/2016 5:32pm
Well it sure didn't help this weekend. I don't think its a stamina issue though as he can come on strong late in motos. Maybe tweeaked a wrist or something in that rut crash.
RMZ#
Profile picture for user RMZ#
Posts
172
Joined
5/26/2016
Location
Harbor Springs, MI US
RMZ# 6/18/2016 5:43pm
6/18/2016 5:43pm
brimx153 wrote:
i think its the bike . he can bull dog a few fastest laps . but you just can race like that . DV said something...
i think its the bike . he can bull dog a few fastest laps . but you just can race like that . DV said something interesting has anyone done any good on a kawi bar RV in resent years . But i am sure tomac will get it sorted . just hope it wont be like kenny . the min he gets it sorted , he has already signed to another bike .
What DV said can be said about any bike. If you don't have the rider then the Bike is junk. It was only 2 months ago the RMZ450 was a POS. Only one guy can win.

As far as Tomac goes he has one more shot to change it up. If Dungey shuts it down next yr I hope Timac goes Orange. I would like to see if Baker can get the extra 5% out of him. Maybe Tomac sr has maxed out his training potential.

Pit Row

See All »
dboivin
Profile picture for user dboivin
Posts
3167
Joined
5/19/2010
Location
Saginaw, MI US
dboivin 6/18/2016 5:48pm
6/18/2016 5:48pm
CrGuy2T wrote:
Why is it not ok that Roczen is just the best out there at the moment. It's always wait for this or wait for that. It's...
Why is it not ok that Roczen is just the best out there at the moment. It's always wait for this or wait for that. It's the bike or the injuries. Just like last year. No excuses for Roxczen, Dungey was clearly the best last year. Tomac is a badass I'll give everyone that. He had blazing speed for the rounds last year. He has not proven that " it's over for the rest" in any circumstance.
johnnypotato123 wrote:
Roczen is the best out there at the moment, no argument there. Where all these "excuses" come from is Eli's dominance last year. I know I'll...
Roczen is the best out there at the moment, no argument there. Where all these "excuses" come from is Eli's dominance last year. I know I'll get blasted for this, but I would say he was better than Roczen is now, obviously you can get into the whole "who's made it further into the season?" but I honestly believe that.

He's proved he can be every bit as good as Roczen and even better than him at times, so that's why people are scratching their heads trying to come up with a reasoning.
i agree.

tomac is showing flashes of brilliance here and there this year on a new bike. it will come.


kinda remember him winning hangtown his first race...then overheating in texas...then not hearing from him til the following year. It really messed him up and took him a while to come back from that. This seems very similar. his form looks good, just small problems here and there. i have faith, tomac will dominate again eventually. Hopefully in top form come MXDN.
CrGuy2T
Profile picture for user CrGuy2T
Posts
4503
Joined
3/11/2015
Location
Santa Fe, TX US
CrGuy2T 6/18/2016 6:15pm
6/18/2016 6:15pm
Jimmy_Sloan wrote:
Why do you dismiss that it's the bike?
Same reason I wouldnt have dismissed the Suzuki for Roczen last year. Carmicheal won championships on that Rmz just as Villopoto won championships on the kxf. Josh Grant also seems be having some good results on the same bike. It's hard to dismiss a bike that is not having mechanical failures and a team of people to make a bike however you want it tailored to fit. Maybe he's just a 2nd-4th place guy this year. If it turns around and he starts winning I'll be glad to eat crow. I personally think people expected way to much out of him this year. Everyone kept saying he needs the start well he got two great starts today.
Jimmy_Sloan
Profile picture for user Jimmy_Sloan
Posts
1424
Joined
9/20/2015
Location
Oak Harbor, WA US
Jimmy_Sloan 6/18/2016 6:24pm
6/18/2016 6:24pm
Jimmy_Sloan wrote:
Why do you dismiss that it's the bike?
CrGuy2T wrote:
Same reason I wouldnt have dismissed the Suzuki for Roczen last year. Carmicheal won championships on that Rmz just as Villopoto won championships on the kxf...
Same reason I wouldnt have dismissed the Suzuki for Roczen last year. Carmicheal won championships on that Rmz just as Villopoto won championships on the kxf. Josh Grant also seems be having some good results on the same bike. It's hard to dismiss a bike that is not having mechanical failures and a team of people to make a bike however you want it tailored to fit. Maybe he's just a 2nd-4th place guy this year. If it turns around and he starts winning I'll be glad to eat crow. I personally think people expected way to much out of him this year. Everyone kept saying he needs the start well he got two great starts today.
Different riders get along with different bikes. What works for Grant, may not work for Tomac. I would think that Tomac -- if he felt really good on the bike -- would be beating Roczen outdoors. We all saw what he could do last season in the opening rounds.
mx 219
Profile picture for user mx 219
Posts
4040
Joined
8/15/2010
Location
South Central, PA US
mx 219 6/18/2016 6:39pm
6/18/2016 6:39pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2016 6:41pm
I realize this was written after the 1st moto, but after moto 2 I feel confident Tomac will win some motos this year, hopefully some overalls. I went back and watched some of the footage, it was kind of deceptive with how things really were at the track, Eli was close throughout moto 2.

He was already 4.5 or 5 seconds back when he got into second, then I think he was back as much as 8.5 or 9.5 seconds and then brought it back down to 3.5 before making a mistake somewhere on the back section with a few laps to go. He lost by 11 seconds, but that was after cruising on the last lap, it was 5 seconds slower than Roczen's. I believe moto 2 was the closest race Roczen has had all year and it was that way throughout the moto.
early
Profile picture for user early
Posts
9872
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
early 6/18/2016 6:48pm
6/18/2016 6:48pm
I was there and the track looked pretty tricky to pass on if you were close to the same speed as the guy in front of you. Kinda like J Mart/osbourne and A Mart/Savatgy, just couldnt make up that last 2 seconds especially when the lappers hit.

They watered the shit out of it before the first moto. After he tipped over, i dont know, he looked like dogshit. Bad line choice, looked like he didnt want charge and fall again. Pourcel actually looked really good.

Second moto was like a different guy, he looked good and confident and creative and they hit lappers right as soon as he cut the lead to the closest ot had been. Seemed like lappers were in packs of 3 (I know Kenny had to go thru the same guys ).

Anyway, I hope that second moto guy shows up at muddy creek. He actually sounded very upbeat on the podium after moto 2.
dboivin
Profile picture for user dboivin
Posts
3167
Joined
5/19/2010
Location
Saginaw, MI US
dboivin 6/18/2016 6:55pm
6/18/2016 6:55pm
early wrote:
I was there and the track looked pretty tricky to pass on if you were close to the same speed as the guy in front of...
I was there and the track looked pretty tricky to pass on if you were close to the same speed as the guy in front of you. Kinda like J Mart/osbourne and A Mart/Savatgy, just couldnt make up that last 2 seconds especially when the lappers hit.

They watered the shit out of it before the first moto. After he tipped over, i dont know, he looked like dogshit. Bad line choice, looked like he didnt want charge and fall again. Pourcel actually looked really good.

Second moto was like a different guy, he looked good and confident and creative and they hit lappers right as soon as he cut the lead to the closest ot had been. Seemed like lappers were in packs of 3 (I know Kenny had to go thru the same guys ).

Anyway, I hope that second moto guy shows up at muddy creek. He actually sounded very upbeat on the podium after moto 2.
from t.v. perspective. that summed it up pretty well. tomac had some bad lines on that first moto and almost ate it like 3-4 different times in the mud as well.
Walloper
Profile picture for user Walloper
Posts
37
Joined
5/5/2015
Location
AU
Walloper 6/18/2016 7:04pm
6/18/2016 7:04pm
CrGuy2T wrote:
Same reason I wouldnt have dismissed the Suzuki for Roczen last year. Carmicheal won championships on that Rmz just as Villopoto won championships on the kxf...
Same reason I wouldnt have dismissed the Suzuki for Roczen last year. Carmicheal won championships on that Rmz just as Villopoto won championships on the kxf. Josh Grant also seems be having some good results on the same bike. It's hard to dismiss a bike that is not having mechanical failures and a team of people to make a bike however you want it tailored to fit. Maybe he's just a 2nd-4th place guy this year. If it turns around and he starts winning I'll be glad to eat crow. I personally think people expected way to much out of him this year. Everyone kept saying he needs the start well he got two great starts today.
"A team of people to make a bike however you want it tailored to fit."

Monster Kawasaki won't tailor the bike to however you want it to fit.

There was a fill-in rider at Monster a few years ago who hated the factory bike and the team wouldn't let him change it, or tailor it to fit himself.
51xc
Profile picture for user 51xc
Posts
2190
Joined
7/27/2015
Location
DE
51xc 6/18/2016 7:23pm
6/18/2016 7:23pm
I thought tomac did pretty well on a very technical track like this. he likes to ride wide open and I'd bet high point isn't is favourite track at all for that reason. roczen is a very smooth and technical rider and definitely showed that he was the best guy this weekend.
Insider347
Profile picture for user Insider347
Posts
515
Joined
2/21/2012
Location
Raleigh, NC US
Insider347 6/18/2016 7:44pm
6/18/2016 7:44pm
Jimmy_Sloan wrote:
Why do you dismiss that it's the bike?
CrGuy2T wrote:
Same reason I wouldnt have dismissed the Suzuki for Roczen last year. Carmicheal won championships on that Rmz just as Villopoto won championships on the kxf...
Same reason I wouldnt have dismissed the Suzuki for Roczen last year. Carmicheal won championships on that Rmz just as Villopoto won championships on the kxf. Josh Grant also seems be having some good results on the same bike. It's hard to dismiss a bike that is not having mechanical failures and a team of people to make a bike however you want it tailored to fit. Maybe he's just a 2nd-4th place guy this year. If it turns around and he starts winning I'll be glad to eat crow. I personally think people expected way to much out of him this year. Everyone kept saying he needs the start well he got two great starts today.
I agree, I know the shoulder surgeries are a HUGE hurdle. The bike isn't the problem. To have the resources he has and experience he has leads me to believe it's not bike. I won't say it's not the shoulders but no way it can be the Kawi.
tuggy450
Profile picture for user tuggy450
Posts
1389
Joined
3/12/2016
Location
Massapequa, NY US
tuggy450 6/18/2016 8:30pm
6/18/2016 8:30pm
everytime i see tomac it looks like his forks are too soft, and with light rebound. they just don't seem settled to me..Maybe he likes them that way or at race pace they just look odd perhaps they are fine at practice pace. That said he has the lap times forget what race it was maybe but he dropped off the pace settling for third when he had the pace to catch dungey, maybe he is trying to ride smart, he should just be riding. That said the guy is a beast on the bike and It may just take a while to sorted.Earlier it was reported that he was having problems setting the bike up because he was still healing training getting stronger and had set up the suspension softer than what he was used to..Kroc right now is firing on all cylinders, but i don't see still him shutting out tomac. tomac has the speed to run with or in front of kenny, With dungey out, and the unpredictability of mx it is too early to give anyone the title.
Brent
Profile picture for user Brent
Posts
5830
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Temecula, CA US
Brent 6/18/2016 8:42pm
6/18/2016 8:42pm
holeshot413 wrote:
I'm thinking a lot of you don't really REALLy know, how hard it is to come back from shoulder injuries. It's an injury that you cannot...
I'm thinking a lot of you don't really REALLy know, how hard it is to come back from shoulder injuries.
It's an injury that you cannot hurry up with. It's amazing that he is riding and racing as
Good as he is
Exactly.

The only thing I have in common with Eli Tomac is that I had the same injury on ONE shoulder, and from my experience it takes a long time, over 18 months, to get back to where I was before my crash.

I can't imagine what it is like to have two weak shoulders...

Brent
Profile picture for user Brent
Posts
5830
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Temecula, CA US
Brent 6/18/2016 8:48pm
6/18/2016 8:48pm
Lightning78 wrote:
LOL STILL??? He's had all Goddam year to figure the bike out and not yet? I realize they are not in SX mode any more but...
LOL STILL??? He's had all Goddam year to figure the bike out and not yet? I realize they are not in SX mode any more but enough with the bike excuses for and from Tomac, Josh Grant has had way less time with I'm sure far less team support and attention and he is doing great. If he doesn't like a bike and can't say it that's fine but again he Newfull well when he was getting stuff into when he signed with them last year I hate it every year when is writers gun new bikes and they talk about how great it is with a underlying side bashing of their previous bike in this case he was publicly doing that Wilist completely destroying everyone on the Honda and look near flawless except for when he crashed and kept saying Kawi is way better Kawi is way better apparently it's not the bike IMO its Eli or his training strength and or stamina is not up to par.... it's something but it isn't the bike
...who is "Newfull well" ?

Post a reply to: Well boys there's your good start from Tomac