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A reduction in forces is all helmet testing can show.
A reduction in forces is all an airbag test could show.
(insert infinite other examples here)
Again, you are asking for something impossible to provide. XX amount of force may break your neck, but it might take double that to break someone else neck. Each scenario, and person are different... that is why no product in the history of any product can GUARANTEE you will never get hurt, or show that you will not get hurt, using data.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
What do you have?
I just checked out this product on your website...I'm very interested in it. It looks like its only being presold right now, when will it be available? And how does sizing work on it? S/M or L/XL? (If you'd rather, to avoid changing the subject, feel free to email me dj_gardner@hotmail.com)
Obviously it would work with your brace, so it would kill two birds with one stone for me.
Jimmy_sloan and others...
You trust your helmet, your car seat belt, airbag system, chest protector, etc to do their job without a single doubt or question and accept the risks with them. Yet ONLY a neck brace must without a doubt prove it is absolute perfection and in no way possible could ever even scuff the side of your neck in a way that makes you the slightest bit upset...You guys have to be realistic.
Never in the history of this sport has any piece of equipment (or company who cares about riders safety) been scrutinized to such ridiculous levels.
Again, for the 1000th time... We can show that we reduce forces to your head and neck during a crash. If you wish to allow your body to absorb 100% of the forces instead... no one can stop you and your decision has been made.
What any pro rider, or twitter argument says is irrelevant. Science and numbers don't lie. Our numbers, and other companies numbers all say these things reduce forces compared to not wearing one. There is nothing for us to prove, and even 100000 years from now we will not be able to say, hey bro, wear this... no POSSIBLE way you can hurt yourself in it.
Thank you.
And does it come with the shoulders and elbows, or do I have to order those separately?
Here is one series of hyperextension tests, from 3 different drop heights, and the average of those compared to wearing no brace. Note that these aren't purely extension tests... they are coupled with compression as our rig is more like a real life crash.
There are many more just like it... Just because you haven't seen the data, doesn't mean we haven't done our homework and validated what we have. This isn't our first rodeo.
The Guardian Lite model is just the vest portion.
One other question, if I were to wear the guardian under my jersey, does the brace also go under my jersey or does it sit over the jersey?
What's your take on skateboarders? Not all the pro skaters wear helmets.
Pit Row
It is absolutely important that such questions be asked and answered, and that whatever data these companies have, be released so it can be scrutinized. So far, that's not been done so there is rightfully some skepticism.
The data for helmets, seatbelts, baby seats, etc are all released so that improvements can be made, so that others can examine the data to look for accuracy, flaws in testing methods, bias, etc. Helmets, car seats, seatbelts, etc have all been shown to save lives and reduce injury, backed by hard numbers, and all must meet certain requirements and standards before they can be sold to the general public.
I am not being skeptical just for the sake of being skeptical, I would not want to put something around my neck that doesn't really help or in worse case scenarios, hurts more than it helps.
In reality, there are many variables including the helmet, helmet/brace connection, brace absorption (ours in flexible to help absorb and dissipate forces before they reach your body), then finally your body. Lots of factors with each of those aspects.
Neck braces also have to pass certain standards before you can sell them: CE. That is another 3rd party test in Italy. We pass it, as marked on every single product we sell.
You asked for hard data, I showed you some, and you still don't believe it...
This is reason we didn't release the data in the first place, and the same reason you don't believe in the data Leatt has published, and also the same reason that no amount of data will ever please you. We can only do so much with what technology is available to us.
We can show reductions in forces all day long. That is what we can do. If a reduction in forces is not what you desire, then I guess a neck brace just isn't for you, and that it your choice to make.
My comment is intended to reference off-road motorcycle racing pros.
I'm certain Atlas would love to peddle their neck braces to hockey players and skateboarders and anyone else willing to believe.
I apologize if that offends you.
Now Marvin still wears a neck brace so he must still believe in the technology? Surely, if the thought the terrible injury that happened to his brother was caused by a neck brace, then he wouldn't be wearing one now. I don't believe Marvin still wears one coz he in contracted to. He would buy himself out of it & stop wearing one.
I have brought this up before months ago with you on this forum so I wont go too deep into it however the interaction of the helmet and the brace is my huge concern. You cannot control in a crash if the helmet will contact the platform of the brace as it is intended to. What happens when the base of the helmet goes inside of the brace? Or the edge of the helmet goes over the outside of the brace? These are my main concerns and anyone who owns a brace can go out and test for themselves. I have owned a Leatt 5.5 and an Atlas and with both I can easily create a position moving my head/neck around that I feel like could be really bad if they occurred during the chaos of a crash. I actually stopped using my Suomy MX Jump helmet because of the shape of the bottom of the helmet and how it exacerbated the helmet/neckbrace interaction. When questioning Leatt over the phone, they acknowledged that this was a problem with the different helmet designs out there and that a leverage point could be created that could cause injury in certain circumstances. All of this doubt is why I no longer wear a brace even though I wish I was comfortable enough with them to still wear one.
Sorry for the long post and feel free to IM me if you prefer to take this conversation offline.
Thank you
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