Forgotten voices - WW2 History.

Barrett57
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Edited Date/Time 5/15/2016 10:16am
Just finished reading this book, absolutely fantastic. It's all first hand accounts of the war from the beginning to the end. From Dunkirk, the battle of the Atlantic to Normandy.

It's mostly first hand accounts from British and commonwealth servicemen and women as it's made from recordings from the Imperial war museum in London, but it's a great read. They really were an amazing generation.



There's a whole series of them which are good reads, forgotten voices of the Holocaust is the most depressing book i've ever read but it is also an excellent read.

http://www.forgottenvoices.co.uk/second_world_war.html

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Barrett57
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5/1/2016 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 5/1/2016 12:28pm
Sergeant William Harding, Royal Artillery, France 1940.

"On the 23rd the Germans must have got nearer, because this is where the mortars really took hold of the situation. The mortars came over thick and fast. Nearby there was vickers pom-pom on blocks of wood, manned by three gunners. A mortar bomb hit it and the three blokes were just shattered. I ran over to them, and I looked at one poor fellow - his face - his eyes staring up at at me . And I thought "Well I can't do anything for him." I ran back again, and there was this chap, dragging himself on his elbows. He was sobbing and there were two lines in the sand from his legs - but there were no feet on the end of his legs. I thought. " God, what a terrible thing to happen to anybody!" I looked away because there were explosions all around us. Then I saw this rifleman running in front of me. One minute he was there - there was a terrific explosion - next minute he was in bits.
5/1/2016 1:55pm
Humans, most deadly species on the planet...
Sidecar
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5/1/2016 2:43pm
Recently read the last British dam buster by Johnny Johnson.... Very good read, true hero. I visited the Mohne and Edersee dams a couple of years ago, very humbling expirience, the Germans could not have been nicer and more welcoming.... Makes you wonder why any of it needed to happen.
I live on a hill that looks across towards Coventry, one of the worst city's hit by German bombing raids, there are still holes in the fields near my house where German bombs fell.... The farmers have not back filled, they work around them.....
Barrett57
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5/1/2016 2:54pm
I don't live far from Coventry either. One of the most beautiful medieval cities in the world completely destroyed and rebuilt like a concrete jungle. I remember it wasn't long ago the University was evacuated because they found a bomb on the London road, in fact we have dug up an old German bomb in Cov before.

My great grandma was born in what's left of the work house that's next to the University, she was in her 20s when Coventry was bombed into dust, she was the toughest person I've ever known. Nothing at all bothered her, tough as nails.

And yeah, I used to lived with two Germans and they were great people, it was so stupid.

The Shop

motogeezer
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5/1/2016 4:49pm
My father in law fought in WWII.

He was at the Battle of the Bulge, where he earned a Purple Heart.

He doesn't like to talk about it.

He's 95 and and still kickin' it pretty good.

Brad460
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Fantasy
5/1/2016 5:51pm
I will have to check out this book...

My grandfather flew bombers in WW2 and one of his missions was bombing a Mercedes Benz factory- probably building tanks or planes there..

He passed away 8 years ago and I really regret not talking to him more about his experiences..
DoctorJD
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5/2/2016 7:17am
motogeezer wrote:
My father in law fought in WWII. He was at the Battle of the Bulge, where he earned a Purple Heart. He doesn't like to talk...
My father in law fought in WWII.

He was at the Battle of the Bulge, where he earned a Purple Heart.

He doesn't like to talk about it.

He's 95 and and still kickin' it pretty good.

War is brutal under any circumstances, but the Battle of the Bulge was incredibly brutal. Under-armed and not equipped for the cold and snow they were fighting in. I don't blame those guys for not wanting to talk about it. War seems chivalrous and adventurous to us. To them, it was an absolute living hell.

My wife's grandfather was a dive bomber in the Pacific campaign. I'm a nut over WWII stuff, so I tried to talk to him once about some of the battles he was in when I first met him (I later found out he was part of Midway and the Marianas Turkey Shoot). It didn't take long to figure out this was no game to him. I once read a book written by his squadron leader that had a story about him. They had gone on a bombing run on a Japanese ship convoy, and his bomb didn't detach during his run so he had to fly back to the carrier with it still attached to the plane.

They did some maneuvers to try to get it to release while circling the carrier, but it wouldn't drop. They assessed the situation finally came to the conclusion that it would survive the landing. As soon as the plane touched down, the bomb released and skipped down the deck where it exploded and killed three crew members. I don't think that's something you could ever get over, especially considering that all of those guys were so close.
motogeezer
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5/2/2016 12:05pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 12:05pm
^^^My son in law did three tours with the Marines in Afghanistan and Iraq, and one of my nephews did a whole bunch of combat deployments in the ME.

My father in law has shared some war stories with them, but not us civilians.

Sidecar
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5/2/2016 3:11pm
Barrett57 wrote:
I don't live far from Coventry either. One of the most beautiful medieval cities in the world completely destroyed and rebuilt like a concrete jungle. I...
I don't live far from Coventry either. One of the most beautiful medieval cities in the world completely destroyed and rebuilt like a concrete jungle. I remember it wasn't long ago the University was evacuated because they found a bomb on the London road, in fact we have dug up an old German bomb in Cov before.

My great grandma was born in what's left of the work house that's next to the University, she was in her 20s when Coventry was bombed into dust, she was the toughest person I've ever known. Nothing at all bothered her, tough as nails.

And yeah, I used to lived with two Germans and they were great people, it was so stupid.
My grandparents on my mums side ( now deceased ) both lived in Coventry during the war, my grandad drove ambulances and lost both his brothers, he died when I was very young so I didn't get a chance to speak with him about his war time days....

On a side note the night we stayed at the Mohne dam was the night of the football World Cup final when Germany won.... It was on TV in the pub we were in. When it ended every body went.... Yeah we won.... Then went home to bed, work in the morning etc.... It would have been a riot in England, made us laugh, we had parked our camper well out of harms way incase they won and we had no need too.
5/3/2016 12:44am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2016 12:45am
Looks interesting. I'll probably pick it up Cool

On an unrelated..., my grandmother(turning 91 this year), was 15 when the commies invaded Finland(a peaceful, democratic country) a few months after Germany invaded Poland. My grandfather(died in '92) was a Finnish coastal artillery rifleman during the continuation war and had some sad and amazing stories of fighting for the small islands in the gulf of Finland. While the Fins handed those retarded scum their asses for the most part, Grandma's family's farm of generations near Viipuri(now Vyborg) was ceded in a peace deal. She absolutely effing hates Russians to this day lol. She also still works her butt off around the yard too. Amazing...
5/3/2016 1:08am
Brad460 wrote:
I will have to check out this book... My grandfather flew bombers in WW2 and one of his missions was bombing a Mercedes Benz factory- probably...
I will have to check out this book...

My grandfather flew bombers in WW2 and one of his missions was bombing a Mercedes Benz factory- probably building tanks or planes there..

He passed away 8 years ago and I really regret not talking to him more about his experiences..
my grand father flew Lancasters in the war for the NZ bomber command, the local air museum in Auckland rebuilt a Lancaster and put NZ bomber command plane numbers on it, My grandfather saw it in the paper and said he had flown that number, so he pulled out his log book and it was the same numbers, he arranged for us to go up and donate his log book to the museum, and he took me though it and met the men that had restore it, , i was about 13 at the time and it is my last memory with him, as he died about 6 months later,

he never really talked about the war, thats the only day i can remember him ever mentioning it,

I have taken my niece and nephew up to see that plane as its still on display, to keep remembering the sacrifices that generation made so we could be free,
5/3/2016 2:15am
Fascinating stories passed down everyone. Iv'e told this one before but my Great Grandad on my mum's side commanded and flew in No .302 Polish Fighter Squadron in the Battle of Britain. Disgracefully the sacrifices made by the Polish lads were pretty much written out of history immediately after the war for political reasons -

"The Poles were grateful to the British. Polish author Antoni Slonimski later wrote: “England made us feel the strength and righteousness of our common cause. We shall not forget the ideals and honesty by which this great nation is guided.” Unfortunately, in the postwar partitioning of Europe, those ideals did not extend to a free Poland independent of Soviet influence. Britain and the other Allies yielded to Josef Stalin, and the contributions of the Polish pilots were all but forgotten. Polish airmen were not even permitted to march in the London victory parade after the war ended."

http://www.historynet.com/the-forgotten-few-polish-airmen-fought-during…
Barrett57
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5/3/2016 7:47am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2016 7:49am
The whole thing about the Polish pilots is disgraceful, what happened over the south coast of England that summer determined our future. It was the most important few months in the history of Britain.

A lot of people are still unaware of the contribution of the Polish. 303 polish squadron had more "kills" than any other squadron, they should have been treated as the heroes they were and the Soviets told to fuck off.

Also, a lot of people don't realise just how many Kiwis, Canadians and Poles there were. Without the contribution of New Zealand especially the whole battle might have gone the other way, the pilots of fighter command were held together by Keith parks who was a kiwi and the second largest amount of pilots came from New Zealand with the most being from Poland. Which is pretty staggering, considering that NZ is the other side of the world and has a tiny population.

If any one man won the Battle of Britain, he did. I do not believe it is realised how much that one man, with his leadership, his calm judgment and his skill, did to save, not only this country, but the world.
— Lord Tedder, Chief of the Royal Air Force, February 1947 about Keith Park.


When I was in Auckland in January I went to the war museum, there was a spitfire and a whole display on the Battle of Britain, it was good to see that it hasn't been forgotten.
MudPup545
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5/3/2016 8:09am


Sunhouse
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5/3/2016 8:16am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2016 2:37pm
Barrett57 wrote:
The whole thing about the Polish pilots is disgraceful, what happened over the south coast of England that summer determined our future. It was the most...
The whole thing about the Polish pilots is disgraceful, what happened over the south coast of England that summer determined our future. It was the most important few months in the history of Britain.

A lot of people are still unaware of the contribution of the Polish. 303 polish squadron had more "kills" than any other squadron, they should have been treated as the heroes they were and the Soviets told to fuck off.

Also, a lot of people don't realise just how many Kiwis, Canadians and Poles there were. Without the contribution of New Zealand especially the whole battle might have gone the other way, the pilots of fighter command were held together by Keith parks who was a kiwi and the second largest amount of pilots came from New Zealand with the most being from Poland. Which is pretty staggering, considering that NZ is the other side of the world and has a tiny population.

If any one man won the Battle of Britain, he did. I do not believe it is realised how much that one man, with his leadership, his calm judgment and his skill, did to save, not only this country, but the world.
— Lord Tedder, Chief of the Royal Air Force, February 1947 about Keith Park.


When I was in Auckland in January I went to the war museum, there was a spitfire and a whole display on the Battle of Britain, it was good to see that it hasn't been forgotten.
As far as I know, it was the West who liked to write the then-Soviet countries out of the war history, especially on the Western front. But maybe the Soviets did the same thing to the West.

I have always been interested in war history, and especially ww2. Growing up as the Cold war ended, it is still crazy to remember how focused on the Western contribution our WW2 classes were. The Russians were hardly mentioned, except for Stalingrad and the battle for Moscow. It wasn't until I got older I learned that 80% of all German losses were to Russia, and that for example the battle of Kursk was 4-5 times larger than D-day. It is sad when great contributions are not recognized regardless of origin
Barrett57
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5/3/2016 9:25am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2016 1:13pm
Sunhouse wrote:
As far as I know, it was the West who liked to write the then-Soviet countries out of the war history, especially on the Western front...
As far as I know, it was the West who liked to write the then-Soviet countries out of the war history, especially on the Western front. But maybe the Soviets did the same thing to the West.

I have always been interested in war history, and especially ww2. Growing up as the Cold war ended, it is still crazy to remember how focused on the Western contribution our WW2 classes were. The Russians were hardly mentioned, except for Stalingrad and the battle for Moscow. It wasn't until I got older I learned that 80% of all German losses were to Russia, and that for example the battle of Kursk was 4-5 times larger than D-day. It is sad when great contributions are not recognized regardless of origin
When I say for the Soviets to fuck off, I'm talking about the London victory parade in 1946, when the poles were not allowed to march because of the strain it would cause to relations between Britain and the Soviet union.

What happened in the east was the decisive factor in victory over Germany without a doubt. I find the eastern front to be the most interesting part of the whole war, Barbarossa, Stalingrad, Leningrad, Kursk, the Rzhev meat grinder, the battle of Budapest ect.

But you are right, depending on where you live, depends on what version of the war you get taught.



5/4/2016 7:16am Edited Date/Time 5/4/2016 7:19am
No doubt Germany would have prevailed if they didn't take on two fronts. Russia played a major role in deciding the war.

The world isn't a peaceful and pretty place. Some of these millennials need not forget that....the world isn't America.

Anytime I see a ww2 vet with a hat on...dragging his oxygen canister I try to thank them. Or buy them a meal. Or buy some things out of their shopping cart. It makes their day and they always refuse at first but I insist. We should all do that.
motogeezer
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5/4/2016 7:39am
No doubt Germany would have prevailed if they didn't take on two fronts. Russia played a major role in deciding the war. The world isn't a...
No doubt Germany would have prevailed if they didn't take on two fronts. Russia played a major role in deciding the war.

The world isn't a peaceful and pretty place. Some of these millennials need not forget that....the world isn't America.

Anytime I see a ww2 vet with a hat on...dragging his oxygen canister I try to thank them. Or buy them a meal. Or buy some things out of their shopping cart. It makes their day and they always refuse at first but I insist. We should all do that.
"The world isn't a peaceful and pretty place. Some of these millennials need not forget that....the world isn't America."

Some of us old farts shouldn't forget that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been fought by mostly millennials.

5/4/2016 9:10am
No doubt Germany would have prevailed if they didn't take on two fronts. Russia played a major role in deciding the war. The world isn't a...
No doubt Germany would have prevailed if they didn't take on two fronts. Russia played a major role in deciding the war.

The world isn't a peaceful and pretty place. Some of these millennials need not forget that....the world isn't America.

Anytime I see a ww2 vet with a hat on...dragging his oxygen canister I try to thank them. Or buy them a meal. Or buy some things out of their shopping cart. It makes their day and they always refuse at first but I insist. We should all do that.
motogeezer wrote:
[i][b]"The world isn't a peaceful and pretty place. Some of these millennials need not forget that....the world isn't America." [/b][/i] Some of us old farts shouldn't...
"The world isn't a peaceful and pretty place. Some of these millennials need not forget that....the world isn't America."

Some of us old farts shouldn't forget that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been fought by mostly millennials.

WWII vets came home to a booming economy, jobs, affordable housing, and a future. Today's vets come home to apathy and uncertainty.
motogeezer
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5/4/2016 9:29am
WWII vets came home to a booming economy, jobs, affordable housing, and a future. Today's vets come home to apathy and uncertainty.
Werd.
5/5/2016 1:25pm
The kids waving pompoms for fairness and wanting free speech and other rights taken away from them never strapped on boots and trudged through shit for their country.
motogeezer
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5/5/2016 1:56pm
There are kids asking to have their rights taken away?

I must have somehow missed that.
5/5/2016 3:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/5/2016 3:50pm
motogeezer wrote:
There are kids asking to have their rights taken away?

I must have somehow missed that.
I don't want to see this thread to get off track but check out youtube channels such as Sargon of Akkad and Thunderfoot etc, and the videos they've made covering the crazy SJW movement. I think that's what Georgie is alluding to.
motogeezer
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5/5/2016 4:07pm
I don't want to see this thread to get off track but check out youtube channels such as Sargon of Akkad and Thunderfoot etc, and the...
I don't want to see this thread to get off track but check out youtube channels such as Sargon of Akkad and Thunderfoot etc, and the videos they've made covering the crazy SJW movement. I think that's what Georgie is alluding to.
You're right.

That's definitely a different topic all together.

No need to start a pissing match.
Spergen
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5/7/2016 12:21pm Edited Date/Time 5/7/2016 12:23pm
"Do the birds still sing in hell" is another great read, different to all the other WW2 books but still excellent. And it's one your other half could possibly read too. Check it out. I'm glad I did.
Parris
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5/9/2016 9:25am
Mother was a nurse stationed in Baltimore MD . Mother was best friends with Lt. Col O' Hara wife "T" Lt O' Hara was a bomber pilot. I was taught by P-51 pilot Peter Basham Still, nothing good to say about war .
JoJmoto
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5/9/2016 3:37pm
Barrett57 wrote:
Just finished reading this book, absolutely fantastic. It's all first hand accounts of the war from the beginning to the end. From Dunkirk, the battle of...
Just finished reading this book, absolutely fantastic. It's all first hand accounts of the war from the beginning to the end. From Dunkirk, the battle of the Atlantic to Normandy.

It's mostly first hand accounts from British and commonwealth servicemen and women as it's made from recordings from the Imperial war museum in London, but it's a great read. They really were an amazing generation.



There's a whole series of them which are good reads, forgotten voices of the Holocaust is the most depressing book i've ever read but it is also an excellent read.

http://www.forgottenvoices.co.uk/second_world_war.html

Thanks for the heads up but... when does the movie come out!?
Spergen
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5/12/2016 2:41pm
JoJmoto wrote:
Thanks for the heads up but... when does the movie come out!?
I do believe for the anniversary of WW1 the BBC did a mini series of stories from the front. Don't shoot me if I'm wrong but believe it covers WW2 as well. Can recommend watching them.
FreshTopEnd
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5/14/2016 12:41pm
If you like this sort of stuff, search out John C McManus's work. Some of earlier stuff was a bit raw while he was finding his voice (IMO), but the later stuff is stellar. Almost all his told from a unit level perspective tied to the overall scheme, rather than a lot of general surveys that look at things from 50,000 feet (E.g., Ambrose's or Antony Beevor or the stellar 3 volume set by Rick Atkinson).

These were my favorites. September Hope is about Market Garden and it's pretty remarkable.





motogeezer
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5/15/2016 10:16am
motogeezer wrote:
My father in law fought in WWII. He was at the Battle of the Bulge, where he earned a Purple Heart. He doesn't like to talk...
My father in law fought in WWII.

He was at the Battle of the Bulge, where he earned a Purple Heart.

He doesn't like to talk about it.

He's 95 and and still kickin' it pretty good.

Turns out, I was wrong about my father in law being 95.

I went to his 97th birthday party last night.

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