Riders Union

bbetsill263
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Clemson, SC US
4/14/2016 12:53pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
How much do you think Feld paid for sx? Why?

He didn't purchase it as a loss leader to Monster Trucks
Feld paid $200 million for Supercross, Arenacross, and Monster Jam.
BAMX
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Fallbrook, CA US
4/14/2016 1:00pm
DPR250R wrote:
Another example of the "everyone gets a trophy" generation. First the Chase... now this. What has the world come to? Next thing you know child labor...
Another example of the "everyone gets a trophy" generation. First the Chase... now this.

What has the world come to? Next thing you know child labor will be outlawed.
Motoxdoc wrote:
It's strange that we're in a moto forum where you would think people would support the growth of the sport by supporting the racers.....but then you...
It's strange that we're in a moto forum where you would think people would support the growth of the sport by supporting the racers.....but then you have people making comments like the above....and below.

"Lots of jobs in the world, if the riders are unhappy with what they make I suggest they gain a skill that will land a job that meets their basic needs. Nobody is entitled to shit, if you want it go get it. If you want to race dirt bikes for a few years and have the time of your life even if your broke that's cool too." - oldandslow1

Just because I’m a motocross fan why should I care about the wellbeing of the racers who bring me such awesome entertainment? Afterall, it’s the promoters who supply the monster girls!
It's Vital. What do you expect? Some here would have you believe that Feld is doing it for the love of the sport.
Dezerted
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Temecula, CA US
4/14/2016 1:07pm
I swear motocross fans are the oldest grumpiest white males.....

The Shop

731chopper
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DFW, TX US
4/14/2016 1:16pm
I agree with what Matthes said on the Fly Moto 60 show this afternoon that it needs to come from the teams as far as joining together and approaching FELD. I also agree that it isn't good that riders in the night show are struggling to get by yet sponsors are throwing big money at 12 year old kids.

I'd rather be associated with 722 or Nick Schmidt or a lot of the other privateers than a kid on an 85 but, then again, I'm not cutting checks for endorsements so it doesn't matter what I think.
Tpog496
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MN US
4/14/2016 1:25pm
Dezerted wrote:
I swear motocross fans are the oldest grumpiest white males.....
You must not have much going on in your life if you feel the need to unjustifiably bring up race in a thread about a riders union.
Motoxdoc
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Steamboat Springs, CO US
4/14/2016 1:31pm
BAMX wrote:
It's Vital. What do you expect? Some here would have you believe that Feld is doing it for the love of the sport.
Hey Bret! Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't expect much more from some vital members....but still, when I see someone in a motocross forum talking disparagingly about the sport and/or its participants....I feel the need to point them out. I admit I'm prejudice when I say, motocross is the greatest sport on earth and I will support the racers till my bitter end! Some promoters have the racers best interest in mind because they are or were racers too (Frank Thomason of REM fame comes to mind)....and other promoters no so much.
Premixed112
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Los Angeles, CA US
4/14/2016 1:49pm
Mike Alessi's answer when I asked about a rider's union in his Q&A thread:

"I feel an athlete's union is something that is needed in every sport. We are the live entertainment and at times do not get treated right. I'm not saying it happens all the time but in sports like the NFL athletes have the right to have their opinions heard and to stand their ground. In our sport you want to stand your ground go ahead. You will be sitting on the couch while someone else comes and fills your spot. I don't think our sport will ever have a union because of that very reason. There aren't enough riders who will come together to start one."
KTMShane699
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Colchester, CT US
4/14/2016 1:59pm
Mike Alessi's answer when I asked about a rider's union in his Q&A thread: "I feel an athlete's union is something that is needed in every...
Mike Alessi's answer when I asked about a rider's union in his Q&A thread:

"I feel an athlete's union is something that is needed in every sport. We are the live entertainment and at times do not get treated right. I'm not saying it happens all the time but in sports like the NFL athletes have the right to have their opinions heard and to stand their ground. In our sport you want to stand your ground go ahead. You will be sitting on the couch while someone else comes and fills your spot. I don't think our sport will ever have a union because of that very reason. There aren't enough riders who will come together to start one."
Part of the problem with establishing a union for the riders is who's in it? The series regulars? The local guy trying to make a supercross because it's local to him? Who does the union really represent?

Comparing it to football is a tough thing. In football, you work for the NFL or a team to play at the professional level. Nobody can simply walk in, sign up and play ball. By selecting who's "working" for the league (or organizer), they could band together. The logistics of the various levels at play are a detriment to being able to organize effectively since there's so many varied wants and needs.

All of that being said, it's ultimately not up to the fans to demand better for the riders. It's the responsibility of the riders to do that for themselves. Nobody petitions my boss to say I should have better working conditions or pay. If the riders can't organize, how do we organize for them? The answer is that we can't do that.

Mike did raise a good point in saying that there are always people willing to fill that "pro" spot, deserving or not. And as long as there's a supply of riders willing to put on a show, there's no real incentive for the promoters to change anything.
BAMX
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4/14/2016 2:02pm
Motoxdoc wrote:
Hey Bret! Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't expect much more from some vital members....but still, when I see someone in a motocross forum talking disparagingly about...
Hey Bret! Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't expect much more from some vital members....but still, when I see someone in a motocross forum talking disparagingly about the sport and/or its participants....I feel the need to point them out. I admit I'm prejudice when I say, motocross is the greatest sport on earth and I will support the racers till my bitter end! Some promoters have the racers best interest in mind because they are or were racers too (Frank Thomason of REM fame comes to mind)....and other promoters no so much.
Yah...Frank does a great job. I always shake my head when I see negative REM comments here. I am just laughing at the comments in this thread since, it is obvious that a lot of people posting have never dealt with really high net worth people or companies like Feld. If the riders are waiting on Feld to make a bunch of changes that benefit the riders and especially their pocket books, they better buy a good chair.
FIREfish148
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Kirkland, WA US
4/14/2016 3:08pm
Unions are bullshit!!! Bunch or propaganda

Please explain why unions are bullshit. I would like to hear the reasoning behind your opinion. I've been Union and non Union and I can tell you first hand Union is 10000x times better.
floridaflash
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Melbourne, FL US
4/14/2016 3:31pm
The top tier riders do have all the power, If James, Ryan, Kenny etc. decided with the rest and protest and not race who would pay to go see the C riders, the sport is long overdue for someone at the top to start.
mxpro252
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4/14/2016 3:49pm
Unions are bullshit!!! Bunch or propaganda

Please explain why unions are bullshit. I would like to hear the reasoning behind your opinion. I've been Union and non Union and I can tell...
Please explain why unions are bullshit. I would like to hear the reasoning behind your opinion. I've been Union and non Union and I can tell you first hand Union is 10000x times better.
I’d like to take this one without getting into a lot of detail,

I’ve been in 2 different labor unions in different times in my life and ended up not getting into a third that I knew all about from 2 friends that worked in it.

In my opinion, the first was a scam as my compensation was the lowest legally allowed and the benefits were nearly non-existent, yet a portion of my minimum wage earnings went to pay these union dues.

The second one seemed like it might have offered some benefit to the workers but I quickly found out that wasn’t the case after they pretty much forced us to go on strike over failed contract negotiations with the employer that the union said was all the employers fault. I later found out the union was lying to us about what was being offered and we could have actually had a decent deal, all of course while still giving a notable portion of my check to the union. Fun fact, a nearby competitor of the employer was paying its non-union employees better than us.

The third union I didn’t get into but wish I did. I don’t know how they did it but the employees were making incredible wages, primarily from overtime for work that could easily be done by some of the laziest people you know. Once you were in, you were set for life. After 2-3 years, friends were easily making $100k+ with amazing benefits by doing a job not much more demanding than working a drive-through at McDonalds.

And I do think at a point in time unions were a good thing but greed and entitlement ruined a lot of them. It seems like a riders union might not be a bad thing if there actually is a lot of money flowing into Feld from SX.
4/14/2016 3:57pm
Its time. Its time that the participants of the sport we love so much get the basic representation they deserve. 1.) health and life insurance. This...
Its time. Its time that the participants of the sport we love so much get the basic representation they deserve.

1.) health and life insurance. This is a no brainer (see Ernesto Fonseca, Doug Henry, etc.)
2.) purse $. Its embarrising. You should be able to make a basic living or better for risking your life on a weekly basis.
3.) dedicated flaggers, if you can fly scantily clad women around the country you can do the same for a safety crew.
4.) financial planning services. Very few racers have a fraction of what they have made in their prime.

Before anyone says that it can be done, every other sport has gone through this transition. The question is who has the sand to make this happen? Its time!
Not unreasonable requests at all.

Nothing wrong with emulating what has made other sports successful. Especially when those requests arent at the expense of the integrity of the sport.

2 additional bullet points would come out of those changes you suggest. And they are changes I'd love to see happen in MotoGP & especially F1 for the long term betterment of those sports:

- equal revenue sharing amongst the teams that hold slots on the grid
- budget caps (leveling the financial playing field will allow for freeing up the rules regulations entirely, which is a win for everyone)
h&m_cycle
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4/14/2016 4:26pm
Dezerted wrote:
I swear motocross fans are the oldest grumpiest white males.....
You just described the Republican National Convention Floor... Tune in when it comes on & see... Kissing
ACBraap
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Seattlish, WA US
Fantasy
4/14/2016 4:36pm
This conversation would be a lot more productive were it called it a riders association rather than a union. Union simply brings too much baggage with it, and really, collective bargaining for wages isn't going to happen and isn't needed. Safety, officiating, purse size and distribution etc. are things that could be addressed.

oldandslow1
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Pinconning, MI US
4/14/2016 5:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2016 5:11pm
im not bagging on riders, i wish they could all make a million dollars but that is never going to happen. maybe .5% of riders will make money at this and most understand that going in. but to say that any rider is entitled to make x number of dollars is not only bullshit its unproductive. life is about choices and these guys made theirs, feld made the choice to invest 200 mil of his hard earned money to buy this product for the sole purpose to make money.

fact is feld dont need any of these riders as a individual and that includes dungey or the last guy who qualified.

remove dungey and they promote the next guy, the last guy to qualify walks and there is 10 more who want his place and are willing to do it for free. until that changes it will never be any dif.

point i was trying to make is that if you go through life thinking you are entitled to anything you are in for a long miserable life.

floridaflash
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Melbourne, FL US
4/14/2016 5:30pm
how many people would go to see or watch on TV if the top 20 from each class walked, all of the group together have tremendous power, but it would take all. Pro rodeo did it so I see why SX and MX couldn't do it also
bob567
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Los Angeles, CA US
4/14/2016 5:38pm
Shit lets start a Spectators Union. Everyone stop going to the SX and Nationals unless our demands are met. For SX I want tailgating allowed in the parking lots. They allow it for football and baseball at the same stadiums. For the Nationals I want flush toilets without lines and seating with shade. A big ass fan blowing on me would be nice also.

This is about as likely to happen as a riders union.
KTMShane699
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Colchester, CT US
4/14/2016 5:49pm
how many people would go to see or watch on TV if the top 20 from each class walked, all of the group together have tremendous...
how many people would go to see or watch on TV if the top 20 from each class walked, all of the group together have tremendous power, but it would take all. Pro rodeo did it so I see why SX and MX couldn't do it also
Plenty of people would. I'd say the vast majority at the stadiums aren't true fans, as much as people enjoying something different for a night out. Couple that with the fact that if the top twenty walked, there would be twenty other guys ready to step up and race. The racing would go on, and racing is the show more than the riders are.

And again, when you talk about organizing how do you decide who contributes what? The guy doing his local race has to pay what the guy doing the whole series does? Who's really being negotiated for? The riders aren't employees, they're contractors of the series. Every single one of them works for themselves while contracted to represent certain companies in the form of sponsorship. For organization as a union to work, they would have to become FELD employees.
MR. X
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North Tonawanda, NY US
4/14/2016 6:14pm
Union ,association , call it what you want . Whats going to happen if the riders decide they will not ride a venue because their demands arnt met ,im sure the team they signed a contract with to race their bikes will be thrilled.
potatoflake
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Kennewick, WA US
4/14/2016 6:24pm
BobPA wrote:
If the purse goes up, ticket prices will follow A union would have ZERO leverage. What are they gonna do? Muscle Feld into paying for insurance...
If the purse goes up, ticket prices will follow

A union would have ZERO leverage. What are they gonna do? Muscle Feld into paying for insurance and better purses? If the riders threaten a strike, Feld will can the series and crest 10 more rounds for monster trucks...
X2
DPR250R
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NJ US
4/14/2016 6:32pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2016 5:22am
Motoxdoc wrote:
It's strange that we're in a moto forum where you would think people would support the growth of the sport by supporting the racers.....but then you...
It's strange that we're in a moto forum where you would think people would support the growth of the sport by supporting the racers.....but then you have people making comments like the above....and below.

"Lots of jobs in the world, if the riders are unhappy with what they make I suggest they gain a skill that will land a job that meets their basic needs. Nobody is entitled to shit, if you want it go get it. If you want to race dirt bikes for a few years and have the time of your life even if your broke that's cool too." - oldandslow1

Just because I’m a motocross fan why should I care about the wellbeing of the racers who bring me such awesome entertainment? Afterall, it’s the promoters who supply the monster girls!


I don't get how me poking fun at some of the views that are thrown around Vital equates to me not caring about the sports/riders well being.


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