Cast triple clamps on Kroc bike

ride455
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4/11/2016 4:27pm
Matthes confirmed they are stock clamps on the RacerX podcast
OR Racer46
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4/11/2016 4:28pm
Glad I don't have Alzheimer's yet
MxKing809
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Fantasy
4/11/2016 4:28pm
They couldn't have taken a 90 degree die-grinder and a 3 inch scotch Brite pad to them? Sheesh.....

I did it to my stock Honda clamps, took 30 minutes
GuyB
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4/11/2016 4:30pm
Any inside factory bike videos I have watched on suzuki factory bikes, the triple clamps are works suzuki parts from japan. Not oem clamps with lines...
Any inside factory bike videos I have watched on suzuki factory bikes, the triple clamps are works suzuki parts from japan. Not oem clamps with lines sanded off....
I've gone through Yoshimura's machine shop before, and seen clamps that they were making for the team.

In the top shot of KR's bike, there's a difference between the top and bottom clamp.

The Shop

Xeno
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4/11/2016 4:32pm
Removing the casting marks on triple clamps may result in unwanted flex.
aeffertz
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4/11/2016 4:33pm
That's what happens when you complain about the bike when it wasn't the root of the issue.
kkawboy14
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4/11/2016 4:33pm Edited Date/Time 4/11/2016 4:39pm
My point was that what they are making is not a replica of a stock one typically. They make a bunch of offsets and test, if they want a stock setting they just throw that on. There aren't many pros that want a stock set for sx because they want the bike to turn faster.
Xeno
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4/11/2016 4:37pm
I recall Vince Friese's supercross bike had stock clamps in 2014 I believe.
kkawboy14
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4/11/2016 4:38pm
Xeno wrote:
I recall Vince Friese's supercross bike had stock clamps in 2014 I believe.
That explains a lot Smile
BB67
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4/11/2016 4:46pm
philG wrote:
Most fork diagrams assume that the steering stem and the forks will always be parallel.. as i see it whether you do it with bearings...
Most fork diagrams assume that the steering stem and the forks will always be parallel.. as i see it whether you do it with bearings , or incline the stem relative to the legs , the result is a steeper head angle , which is measured from the vertical line through the wheel centre .. so however you do it , by pulling the frame, like the road race guys do, bearings , or angled stems, the result is the rake changes , which also alters the trail.



When we were building SM race bikes , from street bikes, we didnt have the frame with inserts , so we achieved the geometry with clamps , that pulled the front in a mile , and a short swingarm to get the wheelbase that same as the factory bike , for the price of a set of clamps and an swingarm exchange.

That is my understanding of it , this rather crappy diagram is what i am saying



why would you use a illustration of Villopoto's bike in a Suzuki thread?
jhansen510
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4/11/2016 5:37pm
Any inside factory bike videos I have watched on suzuki factory bikes, the triple clamps are works suzuki parts from japan. Not oem clamps with lines...
Any inside factory bike videos I have watched on suzuki factory bikes, the triple clamps are works suzuki parts from japan. Not oem clamps with lines sanded off....
GuyB wrote:
I've gone through Yoshimura's machine shop before, and seen clamps that they were making for the team. In the top shot of KR's bike, there's a...
I've gone through Yoshimura's machine shop before, and seen clamps that they were making for the team.

In the top shot of KR's bike, there's a difference between the top and bottom clamp.
Top clamp is a stock clamp and bottom is a factory magnesium clamp?
ride455
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4/11/2016 5:56pm Edited Date/Time 4/11/2016 5:56pm
jhansen510 wrote:
Top clamp is a stock clamp and bottom is a factory magnesium clamp?
I dont think so, I have a RMZ and the top and bottom clamp dont have the same finish on them. The top one (on my bike) is somewhat shiny, and the bottom one is a little more dull. Couldnt tell ya why that is. My bike is broken down right now getting rebuilt and its definitely something I noticed when I was hitting it with the good old scotch brite.
cable
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4/11/2016 7:03pm
Is it a 2016 clamp?
smrscott
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4/11/2016 9:47pm
Most production bikes run a forged lower clamp and a cast upper clamp. Forged aluminum is often stronger than a chunk of billet because the material is forced into the castings under extreme pressure and the molecules are all over the place - kind of like grain in wood in all different directions. The brunt of the force in a clamp is on the bottom clamp.

In the early years of billet aftermarket clamps, there were a lot of lower clamp failures. Material has changed and they are made stronger to avoid that issue.

The upper clamps are often cast pieces, cheaper to make and don't have to be as strong as the lower.

It is all about the flex and how the clamp works with the fork, there are times that stock is best!
Mit12
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4/11/2016 11:03pm
There is a good article in the new MXA magazine about triple clamps. Interesting and informative read.
Bearuno
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4/12/2016 12:15am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2016 12:28am
philG wrote:
Most fork diagrams assume that the steering stem and the forks will always be parallel.. as i see it whether you do it with bearings...
Most fork diagrams assume that the steering stem and the forks will always be parallel.. as i see it whether you do it with bearings , or incline the stem relative to the legs , the result is a steeper head angle , which is measured from the vertical line through the wheel centre .. so however you do it , by pulling the frame, like the road race guys do, bearings , or angled stems, the result is the rake changes , which also alters the trail.



When we were building SM race bikes , from street bikes, we didnt have the frame with inserts , so we achieved the geometry with clamps , that pulled the front in a mile , and a short swingarm to get the wheelbase that same as the factory bike , for the price of a set of clamps and an swingarm exchange.

That is my understanding of it , this rather crappy diagram is what i am saying



For a time, Bimota used this type of set up. The way they did it (it was stated / claimed as) was to try to better maintain trail during suspension compression.

You still will see this sort of thing in the pits, especially at MotoGP levels. They'll use all sorts of 'solutions' - whatever is required for the riders or the engineers desires.

Check out just how varied the machining ideas are with regards to just triple clamp selection, in any form of our motorcycle sport. It can make a significant difference to a riders feel. Many would be shocked to see just how minimal many Moto GP bikes triple clamps appear to be - well, just go into a few dealerships and have a squizz at a variety of companies highest end Sport bikes triple clamps nowadays - some times, there's more 'air' to them than you'd think you'd ever see.

philG : A mate of mine was part of the TM Australias race efforts up til a few years ago. He played with various offsets, and found he really liked a set that the Team had modified to 14mm offset - for SM usage, but this was on his EN300, for Enduro usage. They'd done it by welding up the clamps, welding the surface of what appeared to be an original spacer / insert, then re-boring the steering tube center. He loved it - but one day he complained about his bike becoming 'vague'. I found the lower triple clamps welding had packed out - it was truly an atrocious job that had been done. I had to re-machine the clamps, the steer tube and make new inserts to put it right. I was that paranoid about it all, that I also welded a plate to the (strangely, for TM -it seemed to me- steel) steer tube, that keyed into the front mudguard mount pattern - the clamp and steer tube were going nowhere, after that.

This shows the SM set up they'd made - those dark sections on the clamp, and the press in spacer, are weld occlusions - yes, they didn't even use a 'virgin' bit of alloy stock for the steer stem to clamp spacer. The lower bearing shield, and, hence the bearing, was sitting only on those few raised sections available due to the piss poor welding - the original 'modifiers' didn't do anything properly. The stem /and insert were merrily rocking away in the badly welded triple clamp:


I machined the triple clamp ID, and faces, to get as much non badly welded section as possible for the interference fit, and had a far wider 'top hat' stopper insert as compared to the original insert that's below it:


And the , 'for the fearfully paranoid' builder within me - the 4130 plate welded to the press fit steer tube, that keyed into the mudguard mounts, and, after the fit, another couple of fixating pins. I wanted my friend to be safe. Those chicken shit welds on the clamp you can see, are Not mine, by the way - cripes I think my first TIG welds in the seventies as a 12 year old were better than those:


Some 'engineers', are truly, not to be trusted!
philG
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4/12/2016 1:34am
That's nice work( on your part) .. not so much on theirs... I always walk away from anyone who starts with 'we could weld'.. getting anything back to its pre weld condition without causing distortion is a huge problem, the guy in Belgium who did our swing arm shortening had a huge jig, and the welds were proper aggressive to get the penetration needed , and he got them heat treated too , so they didn't crack.

We had a set of 11mm offsets done for the Aprilia, which worked well on the best bike we had , but didn't work so well on customer bikes, which used 14mm instead.

The 300SMX's have proper clamps , and we have the proper frame geometry as well, but we have had a bespoke top clamp made to use our factory Marzocchi Shivers from our EX Mauno Hermunen 449 Husqvarna.

The difference any change makes in geometry is easy to find on Tarmac , but its also easy to get lost.
blackdiamond
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4/12/2016 1:42am
Some riders have run them in the past because they prefer the flex characteristics of the OEM clamps from what I hear? ML512 can probably contribute far more on this topic than I can but I know that the #800 preferred the OEM clamps over the Xtrig he tested when he first switched to his privateer Suzukis.

Pourcel also ran them on the Yamaha.







kkawboy14
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4/12/2016 2:23am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2016 2:24am
Mit12 wrote:
There is a good article in the new MXA magazine about triple clamps. Interesting and informative read.
Good stuff! I didn't realize there was a lot of gain in moving the axle. Which that is really something to my knowledge everyone leaves as a factory setting.

I had also forgot about the benefits of changing the rear linkage. Changing the rear gives the forks more adjustability. Good article in there about that as well.
NHtoWA421
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4/12/2016 2:35am
If i recall, i think GuyB posted a pic of Roczen's linkage last year, and that was a stock piece too. Maybe he can find the pic. it was in one of the many pit bits last year.

I would be interested if he ran that linkage with the stock clamps. If he did, it would make his dads claims that "he was faster on a stock bike" seem less far fetched.
4/12/2016 3:41am
NHtoWA421 wrote:
If i recall, i think GuyB posted a pic of Roczen's linkage last year, and that was a stock piece too. Maybe he can find the...
If i recall, i think GuyB posted a pic of Roczen's linkage last year, and that was a stock piece too. Maybe he can find the pic. it was in one of the many pit bits last year.

I would be interested if he ran that linkage with the stock clamps. If he did, it would make his dads claims that "he was faster on a stock bike" seem less far fetched.
I've seen stock link arm before on k roc rmz yes. And I beleive js7 used the stock link on his 2013 rmz 450 as well.

I've never seen stock clamps before. But I guess it's more popular then I thought if pourcel has run oem clamps in his race bike
OR Racer46
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4/13/2016 9:52pm


L3G10N
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4/14/2016 1:58am
So, What else has he gone back to that's in stock trim?

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