Herlings wins 50th Grand Prix!

roninho
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roninho 3/31/2016 2:28am
3/31/2016 2:28am Edited Date/Time 3/31/2016 2:30am
"and that is why i think that his 50 GP victorys don't mean so much. It's a record that doesn't say much. It is incredible that he won 50 GP's at the age of 21, but for him it was easier compared to riders in the old days because back then riders could choose in which category they wanted to compete."

People keep saying this, but if i simply look back 10 years ago and 20 years ago i see this:

2006 MX2 world championship:
1. Pourcel 17 years old 581 points
2. Cairoli 20 yo 563
3. Philippaerts 22 yo 480
4. Rattray 20 yo 475
5. de reuver 23 yo 408

1996
1. Tortelli 17 years old 392 points
2. Malin 24 yo 283
3. Vialle 22 yo 276
4. Seguy 20 yo 203
5. Fanton 29 yo 168

(age based on wiki per today 10 and 20 years back)

Todays top 5 MX2
1. Herlings
2. Jonas 19 yo
3. Seewer 21 yo
4. Tonkov 22 yo
5. van Doninck 19 yo

Add in that without injury Ferrandis would be up there, he is 21 yo.

So looking at this i really wonder where this ''back in the day the talent was much deeper'' is coming from. The only two in that list that would not be allowed to race today are Paul Malin (who had won 2 GPs at that point in his career) and Michele Fanton (who had finished 7th, 15th, 13th, 14th and 10th overall the previous 5 seasons). That's like todays Dean Ferris and Tanel Leok adding to MX2.

I am sure there are seasons where champions above 23 were in 125cc (Chiodi and Puzar come to mind), but it's not like there were not a bunch of years were the typical top 5 field were young guns. Just like today.
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mumhra 3/31/2016 3:20am
3/31/2016 3:20am Edited Date/Time 3/31/2016 3:24am
I remember Everts riding MX2 (when Dorna was in charge). I remember Jobé going back to 125. I remember John van den Berk going back to 125. And there were several more. I agree, they did not become world champion against the young guys, but at least they gave the young guns some competition and could take away some GP victories, and that last thing is exactly what this thread is about (Herlings winning 50 GP's at the age of 21). So yes, it is easier these days.
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Jefro98 3/31/2016 3:29am
3/31/2016 3:29am
mumhra wrote:
I remember Everts riding MX2 (when Dorna was in charge). I remember Jobé going back to 125. I remember John van den Berk going back to...
I remember Everts riding MX2 (when Dorna was in charge). I remember Jobé going back to 125. I remember John van den Berk going back to 125. And there were several more. I agree, they did not become world champion against the young guys, but at least they gave the young guns some competition and could take away some GP victories, and that last thing is exactly what this thread is about (Herlings winning 50 GP's at the age of 21). So yes, it is easier these days.
How about the GP's Everts won when he raced both classes in the Dorna days?
Everts was able to win 2 GP's on one Sunday afternoon, racks up nice and fast then.
Are these wins less valuable to anybody?
Record books still says 101 victories.
When Herlings retires these first 50 wins have the same importance as the last 50.
Who cares...I just love to watch the kid race.
Either class.
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roninho 3/31/2016 3:59am
3/31/2016 3:59am
mumhra wrote:
I remember Everts riding MX2 (when Dorna was in charge). I remember Jobé going back to 125. I remember John van den Berk going back to...
I remember Everts riding MX2 (when Dorna was in charge). I remember Jobé going back to 125. I remember John van den Berk going back to 125. And there were several more. I agree, they did not become world champion against the young guys, but at least they gave the young guns some competition and could take away some GP victories, and that last thing is exactly what this thread is about (Herlings winning 50 GP's at the age of 21). So yes, it is easier these days.
You have a point, and i don't disagree that there have been years were older guys were winning in 125cc, that's why i mentioned Puzar and Chiodi as 2 examples. There were years where guys moved back and were very competitive, like Dave Strijbos in the early 90s and Masschio in early 00s. Just like there were many years where that was not the case, for example in the 2 years i showed (2006 and 1996).

Imo you cant say those two years had deeper fields compared to 2014-2015-2016 for Herlings.

By the way, your 2 examples are actually quite terrible Tongue
Jobe was just not a fit (anymore) on a 125 bike, he finished like 10th overall and don't think he even won a manche.
And van den Berk's body had taken to many injuries, when he came back to 125cc, he won 1 GP in 3 years, and didnt finish better then 9th overall.

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Dirt_Dawg 3/31/2016 4:24am
3/31/2016 4:24am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2016 2:06pm
If he stays another year in mx2 he is after the records and doesnt give a shit how he does it. I dont blame the guy for staying in mx2 this year after the big injuries but in 2017 he stays mx2 hes the biggest sandbagger in motocross history, period. My respect goes out for ken roczen , musquin already to me legends in the sport. To be considered the best you have to beat the best!! Herlings needs to stop hiding in the feeder class.
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ATKpilot99 3/31/2016 4:43am
3/31/2016 4:43am
mumhra wrote:
I remember Everts riding MX2 (when Dorna was in charge). I remember Jobé going back to 125. I remember John van den Berk going back to...
I remember Everts riding MX2 (when Dorna was in charge). I remember Jobé going back to 125. I remember John van den Berk going back to 125. And there were several more. I agree, they did not become world champion against the young guys, but at least they gave the young guns some competition and could take away some GP victories, and that last thing is exactly what this thread is about (Herlings winning 50 GP's at the age of 21). So yes, it is easier these days.
roninho wrote:
You have a point, and i don't disagree that there have been years were older guys were winning in 125cc, that's why i mentioned Puzar and...
You have a point, and i don't disagree that there have been years were older guys were winning in 125cc, that's why i mentioned Puzar and Chiodi as 2 examples. There were years where guys moved back and were very competitive, like Dave Strijbos in the early 90s and Masschio in early 00s. Just like there were many years where that was not the case, for example in the 2 years i showed (2006 and 1996).

Imo you cant say those two years had deeper fields compared to 2014-2015-2016 for Herlings.

By the way, your 2 examples are actually quite terrible Tongue
Jobe was just not a fit (anymore) on a 125 bike, he finished like 10th overall and don't think he even won a manche.
And van den Berk's body had taken to many injuries, when he came back to 125cc, he won 1 GP in 3 years, and didnt finish better then 9th overall.
I remember seeing pics of Jobe's blue cr 125 with the handmade aluminum tank in MXA . Great time in motocross . I knew he struggled in the 125s and always wondered if he'd at least won a moto . I believe Bayle won yhe title that season. Sorry to get off topic.... carry on.
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roninho 3/31/2016 4:59am
3/31/2016 4:59am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I remember seeing pics of Jobe's blue cr 125 with the handmade aluminum tank in MXA . Great time in motocross . I knew he struggled...
I remember seeing pics of Jobe's blue cr 125 with the handmade aluminum tank in MXA . Great time in motocross . I knew he struggled in the 125s and always wondered if he'd at least won a moto . I believe Bayle won yhe title that season. Sorry to get off topic.... carry on.
i looked it up, his best moto finish was 3rd (once), and he did get a overall podium going 4-4 in the czechoslovakian gp. Didnt get close to winning. It was indeed in the season JMB won the title (398 to 395 points for Strijbos, talk about a close one).

I remember that when Jobe announced to ride in 125cc that van de Berk (the world champ in 125 at the time) said ''will never work, Jobe will look like a policeman on a bike on the 125cc''.
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RG1 3/31/2016 5:34am
3/31/2016 5:34am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I remember seeing pics of Jobe's blue cr 125 with the handmade aluminum tank in MXA . Great time in motocross . I knew he struggled...
I remember seeing pics of Jobe's blue cr 125 with the handmade aluminum tank in MXA . Great time in motocross . I knew he struggled in the 125s and always wondered if he'd at least won a moto . I believe Bayle won yhe title that season. Sorry to get off topic.... carry on.
roninho wrote:
i looked it up, his best moto finish was 3rd (once), and he did get a overall podium going 4-4 in the czechoslovakian gp. Didnt get...
i looked it up, his best moto finish was 3rd (once), and he did get a overall podium going 4-4 in the czechoslovakian gp. Didnt get close to winning. It was indeed in the season JMB won the title (398 to 395 points for Strijbos, talk about a close one).

I remember that when Jobe announced to ride in 125cc that van de Berk (the world champ in 125 at the time) said ''will never work, Jobe will look like a policeman on a bike on the 125cc''.
Didn't Jobe drop to the 125 class to try and beat Geboers to being the first man to win world titles in each category?
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ATKpilot99 3/31/2016 5:34am
3/31/2016 5:34am
roninho wrote:
i looked it up, his best moto finish was 3rd (once), and he did get a overall podium going 4-4 in the czechoslovakian gp. Didnt get...
i looked it up, his best moto finish was 3rd (once), and he did get a overall podium going 4-4 in the czechoslovakian gp. Didnt get close to winning. It was indeed in the season JMB won the title (398 to 395 points for Strijbos, talk about a close one).

I remember that when Jobe announced to ride in 125cc that van de Berk (the world champ in 125 at the time) said ''will never work, Jobe will look like a policeman on a bike on the 125cc''.
Where did you look this info up ?
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ATKpilot99 3/31/2016 5:41am
3/31/2016 5:41am
Dont know if it's been mentioned but I think Trampas Parker finshed his career back in the 125 gps on a TM .
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Aryen 3/31/2016 5:51am
3/31/2016 5:51am
mumhra wrote:
Sure ? I think that if it is up to KTM Jeffrey will again ride MX2 next year. And i agree, if he moves up to...
Sure ? I think that if it is up to KTM Jeffrey will again ride MX2 next year.
And i agree, if he moves up to the MXGP class he will probably destroy everybody as well. He is the fastest rider in Europe at the moment. That said, you simpley have to agree that he does not belong in the MX2 class anymore. Especially when you see that his strongest competition allready has moved up to MXGP or was forced to move up to MXGP class. Febvre indeed being one of them.
And that is why i think that his 50 GP victorys don't mean so much. It's a record that doesn't say much. It is incredible that he won 50 GP's at the age of 21, but for him it was easier compared to riders in the old days because back then riders could choose in which category they wanted to compete. The 125cc world championship back in the day was more important compared to the MX2 title in these days.
He said so himself in an interview with Sporza some time ago. He wanted to be in MXGP already if it wasn't for last years' injury. And like someone else said in this thread this week, he hadn't expected to be healed up so early or he would have chosen MXGP for this season. He had to decide somewhere in November I believe.

KTM can want him in MX2 for many years to come but his loyalty to KTM isn't infinite. I bet he's counting on a Japanese firm to buy off his contract if they don't let him move up.
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Jefro98 3/31/2016 6:30am
3/31/2016 6:30am
Aryen wrote:
He said so himself in an interview with Sporza some time ago. He wanted to be in MXGP already if it wasn't for last years' injury...
He said so himself in an interview with Sporza some time ago. He wanted to be in MXGP already if it wasn't for last years' injury. And like someone else said in this thread this week, he hadn't expected to be healed up so early or he would have chosen MXGP for this season. He had to decide somewhere in November I believe.

KTM can want him in MX2 for many years to come but his loyalty to KTM isn't infinite. I bet he's counting on a Japanese firm to buy off his contract if they don't let him move up.
He'll be in MXGP next year.
Herlings already confirmed that in his podium interview after the races.
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Aryen 3/31/2016 7:13am
3/31/2016 7:13am
Aryen wrote:
He said so himself in an interview with Sporza some time ago. He wanted to be in MXGP already if it wasn't for last years' injury...
He said so himself in an interview with Sporza some time ago. He wanted to be in MXGP already if it wasn't for last years' injury. And like someone else said in this thread this week, he hadn't expected to be healed up so early or he would have chosen MXGP for this season. He had to decide somewhere in November I believe.

KTM can want him in MX2 for many years to come but his loyalty to KTM isn't infinite. I bet he's counting on a Japanese firm to buy off his contract if they don't let him move up.
Jefro98 wrote:
He'll be in MXGP next year.
Herlings already confirmed that in his podium interview after the races.
then we can finally let this sandbagging bullshit behind us Laughing
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Jefro98 3/31/2016 7:25am
3/31/2016 7:25am
Aryen wrote:
then we can finally let this sandbagging bullshit behind us Laughing
Nah, he'll be sandbagging the MXGP class.
Haters will shout he should man up and race in the USA.
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roninho 3/31/2016 7:58am
3/31/2016 7:58am
RG1 wrote:
Didn't Jobe drop to the 125 class to try and beat Geboers to being the first man to win world titles in each category?
Yes, to become "Mr. 875cc"

Dave Thorpe had won the 1986 500cc world title, with Malherbe 2nd, Geboers 3rd and Jobe 4th. It was a very close battle, difference between Thorpe and #4 Jobe was just 20 points (equal to winning a manche).

After that season Geboers announced he would drop back to 250cc in 1987 dreaming of becoming Mr. 875cc (500+250+125). A bit ambitious since all he had at that point was the 125cc title.

Geboers won the title quite easily (the sandbagger), while Jobe won the 500cc title in 1987. Jobe allready had won the 250cc title before so he figured why don't I go for the 875cc, and move to 125cc for 1988. I think Jobe actually had debuted in gp on a 250cc and never had raced gp's on a 125(not sure though).

Anyway, in '88 you had The Kid going for it on a 500cc (for which he had heard for years that he was to small to be successful), while Jobe went for the small bike. In the end it was a disaster for Jobe and Geboers won the title and Mr 875cc.

Jobe moved back to 500cc and won I think 2 more titles, while Geboers retired relatively young after a 2nd 500ccc title in 1990.
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roninho 3/31/2016 7:59am
3/31/2016 7:59am
roninho wrote:
i looked it up, his best moto finish was 3rd (once), and he did get a overall podium going 4-4 in the czechoslovakian gp. Didnt get...
i looked it up, his best moto finish was 3rd (once), and he did get a overall podium going 4-4 in the czechoslovakian gp. Didnt get close to winning. It was indeed in the season JMB won the title (398 to 395 points for Strijbos, talk about a close one).

I remember that when Jobe announced to ride in 125cc that van de Berk (the world champ in 125 at the time) said ''will never work, Jobe will look like a policeman on a bike on the 125cc''.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Where did you look this info up ?
Book at home
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roninho 3/31/2016 8:03am
3/31/2016 8:03am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Dont know if it's been mentioned but I think Trampas Parker finshed his career back in the 125 gps on a TM .
He did return to 125cc but wasn't spectacular, and finished his gp career in the 500-650 class.
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Jimmy_Sloan 3/31/2016 8:34am
3/31/2016 8:34am
Dirt_Dawg wrote:
If he stays another year in mx2 he is after the records and doesnt give a shit how he does it. I dont blame the guy...
If he stays another year in mx2 he is after the records and doesnt give a shit how he does it. I dont blame the guy for staying in mx2 this year after the big injuries but in 2017 he stays mx2 hes the biggest sandbagger in motocross history, period. My respect goes out for ken roczen , musquin already to me legends in the sport. To be considered the best you have to beat the best!! Herlings needs to stop hiding in the feeder class.
Not period, just your opinion. There's a big difference. What's the magic number for when one becomes a sandbagger in the pro class? Is it two seasons? Three seasons? Four? And what is the criteria for establishing this magic number (hint: it can't just be your arbitrary opinion)?

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Aryen 3/31/2016 8:45am
3/31/2016 8:45am
Aryen wrote:
then we can finally let this sandbagging bullshit behind us Laughing
Jefro98 wrote:
Nah, he'll be sandbagging the MXGP class.
Haters will shout he should man up and race in the USA.
Maybe, haha.

I don't think it's much of a difference if you race Cairoli and Febvre in MXGP or Dungey and Roczen in the AMA.
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vschaik141 3/31/2016 10:08am
3/31/2016 10:08am
age limit... Just reading through some posts here. so what if there was no age limit? expect a paulin a nagl a febvre or van horenbeek to move back to the mx2 class? at least in MXGP without Herlings they stand a chance of winning in mx2 they'd just be fighting for 2nd place
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PastranaWho 3/31/2016 2:27pm
3/31/2016 2:27pm Edited Date/Time 3/31/2016 2:43pm
Aryen wrote:
then we can finally let this sandbagging bullshit behind us Laughing
Jefro98 wrote:
Nah, he'll be sandbagging the MXGP class.
Haters will shout he should man up and race in the USA.
Confirmed where? you have link
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Stefan82 4/11/2016 6:24am
4/11/2016 6:24am
Aryen wrote:
then we can finally let this sandbagging bullshit behind us Laughing
Jefro98 wrote:
Nah, he'll be sandbagging the MXGP class.
Haters will shout he should man up and race in the USA.
PastranaWho wrote:
Confirmed where? you have link
There's no link. He already said it's undecided where he'll race next year. So I believe it's MX2 with KTM or MXGP with a different team.
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Motofinne 4/13/2016 2:51am
4/13/2016 2:51am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2016 2:55am
It's cringeworthy to listen to Matthes talking shit about Herlings. Just listened to the latest Pulp show and he just keeps going with the sarcastic "congrats to your GP wins Jeffrey, everybody is happy for you Jeffrey". Well guess what Matthes, some people are happy for him. I never really liked Herlings "back in the day" but after he tried to defend the MX2 title in 2014 with the broken femur he gained my respect.

I feel like Matthes has joined the group of northern americans that bash Herlings but doesn't pay any attention to the GPs and that is a bit disappointing since he is by far my favorite MX "journalist" in the industry.
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jamma10 4/13/2016 3:21am
4/13/2016 3:21am
He does pay attention to the GPs, he's probably the only US Journalist that flies over to at least one, sometimes two GPs a year (plus the MXdN). But I agree the Herlings resentment is getting tiring, he keeps mentioning it on every podcast and often touches on the subject in the articles that he writes. It's become an itch that he can't help but scratch.

He's entitled to his opinion, but I think his constant negativity helps to spread a similar feeling among his listeners which I think is sad. JT doesn't have a problem with Herlings, but his opinion seems to be ignored on air.
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Motofinne 4/13/2016 3:25am
4/13/2016 3:25am
Yes i know that he is one of the journalists in US that follows the GPs way more than the average US industry member, that is why i find it a bit disappointing.
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Jrewing 4/13/2016 4:45am
4/13/2016 4:45am
Andy_Greenney wrote:

With guys like Gasjer and Febvre moving up and doing so well, hanging around beating school kids isn't that impressive.
That's the truth. The age limit has killed it for him.
Sand master/ Sand bagger... It's all the same
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sende 4/13/2016 7:11am
4/13/2016 7:11am
Herlings is by far my favourite rider on this side of the pond. That is all.
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hillbilly 4/13/2016 7:15am
4/13/2016 7:15am
jamma10 wrote:
He does pay attention to the GPs, he's probably the only US Journalist that flies over to at least one, sometimes two GPs a year (plus...
He does pay attention to the GPs, he's probably the only US Journalist that flies over to at least one, sometimes two GPs a year (plus the MXdN). But I agree the Herlings resentment is getting tiring, he keeps mentioning it on every podcast and often touches on the subject in the articles that he writes. It's become an itch that he can't help but scratch.

He's entitled to his opinion, but I think his constant negativity helps to spread a similar feeling among his listeners which I think is sad. JT doesn't have a problem with Herlings, but his opinion seems to be ignored on air.
Just wait,when Jeffrey comes over here in a few years and starts waxing the field he will be the first in line to polish his knob.

Talent like herlings is rare,if you are moto fan consider yourself lucky to witness it.
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kkawboy14 4/13/2016 7:21am
4/13/2016 7:21am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2016 7:22am
mx 219 wrote:
I think its pretty safe to say its time to move up? And I know you Euros think herlings is an mx god, but he wouldn't...
I think its pretty safe to say its time to move up?


And I know you Euros think herlings is an mx god, but he wouldn't have 25 wins over here. Even if he was on his 20th season.
You have zero proof of any of your statements.

My guess is he would have more because he wouldn't have broke his femur on the mini bike.......prove me wrong!
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sende 4/13/2016 9:46am
4/13/2016 9:46am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2016 9:47am
hillbilly wrote:
Just wait,when Jeffrey comes over here in a few years and starts waxing the field he will be the first in line to polish his knob...
Just wait,when Jeffrey comes over here in a few years and starts waxing the field he will be the first in line to polish his knob.

Talent like herlings is rare,if you are moto fan consider yourself lucky to witness it.
Yep. You hit the nail in the head.

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