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Edited Date/Time
3/25/2016 11:49am
So I've done a lot of research and found a number of people running YZ250 GP Series #808M06640 single TiN ring piston kits in their RM250's. I've also read this was the set up that Carmichael and other top RM teams ran in their bikes. Obviously I am very keen to try this out in my RM, but I have some questions...
My stock motor has a 1.45mm squish band, I understand the GP #808 piston is slightly taller? Will this potentially cause detonation? The bike has never suffered detonation before, running 98 octane UK premium pump fuel.
I've never used a forged piston before, what is the running in method for these?
How long will the piston/ring last? What is the recommended amount of hours on the ring/piston?
My stock motor has a 1.45mm squish band, I understand the GP #808 piston is slightly taller? Will this potentially cause detonation? The bike has never suffered detonation before, running 98 octane UK premium pump fuel.
I've never used a forged piston before, what is the running in method for these?
How long will the piston/ring last? What is the recommended amount of hours on the ring/piston?
The piston will last longer than an OEM rm piston, and as mentioned above I found ring life to be longer as well.
I run 32:1 with Yamalube 2R or Maxima Super-M and switch pistons & rings around 40 - 50 hours in the YZs racing the 30+ and 25+ expert classes.
With the forged piston, you don't just kick start the bike and go ride. You need to wait until the tanks on the radiator feel warm before you take off. You may already have that habit... Otherwise, I've been running the forged pistons for many years.
When you assemble the engine, check the squish with a piece of soft lead solder. If you don't know how to do that, let me know and I'll explain. A safe reliable 250cc will run extremely crisp with .040" to .050" of clearance between the piston and head. You won't be bumping the compression enough to cause detonation if your jetting is right and your fuel is good. I shoot for .040" - .045" of squish clearance on the YZ with a 19.5cc head.
I have these numbers below saved from an old thread on Thumper Talk YZ forum. (Probably about 5 years ago) ProLite is the standard Wiseco 2-ring forged replacement piston while Racers Choice is the upgrade piston. The wristpin to dome measurement is what you want. I did not take the measurements myself, just someone else' posted data.
Racer's Choice:
TiN ring free gap - 5.0mm
ring groove to crown - 3.55mm
diameter - 66.08mm
length - 79.45mm
wristpin to skirt - 5.90mm
wirstpin to dome - 32.13mm
ProLite:
chrome ring free gap - 6.9mm
ring groove to crown - 3.07mm
diameter - 66.0mm
length - 78.19
wristpin to skirt - 5.45mm
wristpin to dome - 31.49mm
As a note, these are rough numbers. To get precise measurements I would need much better equipment than a simple digital caliper. Yet you can still see some noticeable differences.
So I called Wiseco tech support this morning and they assured me that the GP Racers Choice piston is designed to be dropped into an otherwise stock engine.
^^^To the measurements above, I tried to replicate doing them with my digital calipers last night, there is no way that I would trust anything I measured, too much human input and variability.
The only accurate way to measure clearance is to put the piston in your engine and use solder, plasti-gauge, putty or clay.
Personally I run the standard pro lite. I measure using soft lead solder and cut the cylinder-head on my lathe.
The taller piston is going to change port timing as well as compression and squish... I don't want the timing change.
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jsmx97 - could you double check your notes? seems to be conflicting information on whether the YZ GP Piston is taller or not compared to an RM piston, so would be nice to know for sure.
cwtoyota - the squish is 1.45mm or .057'' on my RM, which is stock and using a ProX twin ring piston. I used the soft solder technique and did the test a few times to ensure an accurate measurement.
At .057'' is my squish a touch high?
If so, what is the best method of reducing it? Thinner base gasket or milling the head?
Some additional reassurance, every engine I rebuild whether it has all oem parts or not I check squish clearance... I've installed that piston on many RM250's with no cylinder or cylinder head modifications. It will work without modification on your bike.
Many rm250s had a slight mismatch on the cases, meaning sometimes you could get a messed up measurement depending on how the cylinder was bolted down. I had an air leak on the base gasket on mine once.
I've ordered 0.4mm and 0.3mm base gaskets from Athena. The standard base gaskets I've been using measure 0.51mm. Therefore I should be able to achieve 1.34mm and 1.24mm squish measurements with the Athena gaskets. I will start with the 0.4mm and see how it goes.
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